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DouglasHunter


Jun 29, 2011, 8:36 PM
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Re: [drivel] Help clear my head, please. [In reply to]
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Answers to questions:

1- The rectus Femoris is part of the quad and is a hip flexor. It crosses both the hip joint and the knee joint so in your leg lifts this muscle is both flexing the hip and extending the knee.

2- Well, its not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. stabilizing the pelvis is important in climbing. But keeping one's feet on, on steep rock is a more a matter of inter-muscular coordination, combining stabilization of the pelvis with a number of other joint actions. Further, and to me most important, the orientation of the body to the line of gravity is constantly changing as a climber moves from side to side or faces the wall depending on the moves in question. This means that the Abs are not just involved in stabilizing via isometric contractions as they are in a leg lift; they are also aiding in lateral flexion of the trunk (as well as resisting lateral flexion to the opposite side) and undergoing lengthening contractions during trunk extension which feature prominently on steep moves. All this is to say I would rather see climbers doing training activities that target the various joint actions of the spine and hips (and knees and ankles) rather than choosing one that does not all that closely mimic climbing such as a leg lift.

3- I think the burden of proof is on your regarding this point. What muscles doing what stabilization do you see as being closely related in leg lifts and climbing? Also as Jay already pointed out if your feet cut loose on a steep route, then yes, the hip flexors are going to play an important role in getting the feet back up to the hold. But the more important question is what are we doing in actual moves on steep routes? Its in response to that question that I described the joint actions mentioned above. No offense, but from your posts I'm not sure you understand how the trunk and hips are used on steep moves well enough to make an accurate assessment.


drivel


Jun 29, 2011, 9:50 PM
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Re: [DouglasHunter] Help clear my head, please. [In reply to]
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DouglasHunter wrote:
Answers to questions:

1- The rectus Femoris is part of the quad and is a hip flexor. It crosses both the hip joint and the knee joint so in your leg lifts this muscle is both flexing the hip and extending the knee.

2- Well, its not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. stabilizing the pelvis is important in climbing. But keeping one's feet on, on steep rock is a more a matter of inter-muscular coordination, combining stabilization of the pelvis with a number of other joint actions. Further, and to me most important, the orientation of the body to the line of gravity is constantly changing as a climber moves from side to side or faces the wall depending on the moves in question. This means that the Abs are not just involved in stabilizing via isometric contractions as they are in a leg lift; they are also aiding in lateral flexion of the trunk (as well as resisting lateral flexion to the opposite side) and undergoing lengthening contractions during trunk extension which feature prominently on steep moves. All this is to say I would rather see climbers doing training activities that target the various joint actions of the spine and hips (and knees and ankles) rather than choosing one that does not all that closely mimic climbing such as a leg lift.

3- I think the burden of proof is on your regarding this point. What muscles doing what stabilization do you see as being closely related in leg lifts and climbing? Also as Jay already pointed out if your feet cut loose on a steep route, then yes, the hip flexors are going to play an important role in getting the feet back up to the hold. But the more important question is what are we doing in actual moves on steep routes? Its in response to that question that I described the joint actions mentioned above. No offense, but from your posts I'm not sure you understand how the trunk and hips are used on steep moves well enough to make an accurate assessment.


I certainly don't know what the muscles are named or anything, no. And I also don't climb RRG 5.13, so maybe also no? Not sure what your definition of "understand how the trunk and hips are used on steep moves".

re 3 and "burden of proof": I'm not trying to prove anything and I don't really give a damn if anybody "believes" me. I was trying to share something that I thought would be helpful. "content" if you will. That was apparently an error.


deschamps1000


Jun 29, 2011, 10:43 PM
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Re: [Juzzyclimb] Help clear my head, please. [In reply to]
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If you have been climbing for 2 months shouldn't do anything fingery like finger hangs. You will just injure yourself.

At this point you will improve twice as fast if you spend time climbing (to develop technique) rather than by doing these exercises.


DouglasHunter


Jun 30, 2011, 2:22 AM
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Re: [drivel] Help clear my head, please. [In reply to]
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drivel wrote:
re 3 and "burden of proof": I'm not trying to prove anything and I don't really give a damn if anybody "believes" me. I was trying to share something that I thought would be helpful. "content" if you will. That was apparently an error.

Not an error, I was just asking you to try and back up what you said. Its not content if its just based our casual impressions. If there was a real basis for you suggesting what you did, I was interested in hearing it.


Juzzyclimb


Jun 30, 2011, 3:02 AM
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Re: [Juzzyclimb] Help clear my head, please. [In reply to]
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Well, I did pull-ups and push-ups yesterday and now my right shoulder is injured. Lesson learned. I had an indoor session planned today which I can't do anymore, it's really bugging me.

I'm going to order SCC and "9 out of 10 climbers" when I get paid next and just follow the advice in there.

I've looked into yoga, for flexibility, and found a few places close by that are fairly cheap. I might give them a try while my shoulder heals.


Learner


Jun 30, 2011, 3:13 AM
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Re: [Juzzyclimb] Help clear my head, please. [In reply to]
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Juzzyclimb wrote:
Well, I did pull-ups and push-ups yesterday and now my right shoulder is injured. Lesson learned. I had an indoor session planned today which I can't do anymore, it's really bugging me.

I'm going to order SCC and "9 out of 10 climbers" when I get paid next and just follow the advice in there.

I've looked into yoga, for flexibility, and found a few places close by that are fairly cheap. I might give them a try while my shoulder heals.
Injured from push-ups and pull-ups? Are you sure it's not just Delayed-Onset Muscle Soreness? This is far more likely.

http://www.amazon.com/...309403118&sr=8-1


http://www.amazon.com/...309403458&sr=1-1


http://www.amazon.com/...309403412&sr=1-1


Juzzyclimb


Jun 30, 2011, 4:23 AM
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Re: [Learner] Help clear my head, please. [In reply to]
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Learner wrote:
Injured from push-ups and pull-ups?
Yes.

Learner wrote:
Are you sure it's not just Delayed-Onset Muscle Soreness?
Yes, I'm sure.


stealth


Jun 30, 2011, 9:16 PM
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Re: [Juzzyclimb] Help clear my head, please. [In reply to]
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Juzzyclimb wrote:
Learner wrote:
Injured from push-ups and pull-ups?
Yes.

Learner wrote:
Are you sure it's not just Delayed-Onset Muscle Soreness?
Yes, I'm sure.

Not tough enough!


ceebo


Jun 30, 2011, 9:35 PM
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Re: [stealth] Help clear my head, please. [In reply to]
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Why does this entire thread feel like some underhanded plan to plug?.


stealth


Jun 30, 2011, 9:54 PM
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Re: [ceebo] Help clear my head, please. [In reply to]
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ceebo wrote:
Why does this entire thread feel like some underhanded plan to plug?.

Perception is a terrible thing to waste!
On the money! On the way! Closer!


wmfork


Jun 30, 2011, 10:26 PM
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Re: [drivel] Help clear my head, please. [In reply to]
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drivel wrote:
this is a serious question: if leg lifts are only hip flexors and abs, why do my quads hurt the most when I do a lot of them?

Stretch your quads next time. It's probably because you are not used to the quad muscle in a very contracted position. Or just do knee lifts, it's more applicable to climbing anyway.


Juzzyclimb


Jun 30, 2011, 11:34 PM
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Re: [ceebo] Help clear my head, please. [In reply to]
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ceebo wrote:
Why does this entire thread feel like some underhanded plan to plug?.
Because you touch yourself at night? Wink

I didn't mean it to sound like a plug. It's just that people recommended me the books and told me to focus on climbing, so I listened (sort of).


(This post was edited by Juzzyclimb on Jun 30, 2011, 11:35 PM)


ACLSRN


Jul 15, 2011, 1:55 AM
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Check our P90X. I do that regularly and am one of their Fitness Coach's and P90X is amazing got developing strength, tone, fitness and endurance IMHO.


flesh


Jul 16, 2011, 7:59 PM
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Re: [DouglasHunter] Help clear my head, please. [In reply to]
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DouglasHunter wrote:
Juzzyclimb wrote:
Hey there.

I've decided I want to utilise bodyweight training to help with my climbing and I've picked out a few exercises:

-Pull-ups
-Push-ups
-Sit-ups
-Handstand push-ups
-Body weight squats (eventually one legged)
-Finger hangs

Are these appropriate for climbing? Are there others I SHOULD be doing?

I'm having trouble with deciding how often I should perform them and how many reps and sets to use. Any help regarding this would be a massive help.

Bit of background info:
-23 years
-6ft 3inches
-77kgs (170lbs)
-Climbing for two months.

Cheers.

If you want to do these activities because you find them rewarding that's fine, but you should not be doing them and expecting any impact on your climbing. Even something like finger hands which can be helpful probably won't in your case because you just don't have any movement experience.

At all levels of climbing the top priority is to get a high volume of high quality movement practice. This is all the more the case for the novice climber who knows none of the movement patterns involved in climbing. Your priorities should be:

1- Learn to make high quality contact with the rock or wall. this means quickly identifying hand and foot holds and the ability to establish good quality contact with the holds. The silent feet and glue hands activities are helpful here.
2- Learn the fundamental movement patterns found in climbing, turning, initiating movement from the lower body, how to move with straight arms (not a goal in itself but a good way to learn other skills)

3- Each day you climb either out doors or at the gym climb at a level at which you are comfortable. If the hardest climb you can do is 5.9 then you should be doing a high volume of 5.6 - 5.8 but if you find yourself struggling or just pulling yourself up the wall, just stop and get on something easier.

high volume of high quality practice should be every climbers mantra.

Anyway glad that you are psyched to climb but keep your focus on what will actually make you a climber. Good Luck.

Doug, I just realized I'm pretty sure I use to climb with you at rockreation when I was young. Did you train Aaron Shamy and others back then? Probably late nineties if I recall. Everything you discuss here reminds me of your training. Merrill Bitter was my coach back then.

I just found your picture on the internet, it's you. Too funny, I use to boulder with you at rockreation and I had long, long hair.


(This post was edited by flesh on Jul 18, 2011, 5:57 PM)

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