How likely is it that a climber who can't climb up to the anchors could down-climb to clean?

Jay

If they never practiced, the probability of being successful is very low. That is why I mentioned practicing.

Not likely if they can't get up it, whether they've bothered to practice down-climbing or not.

Jay

Stick clip to the anchors, learn the route on TR, pull your rope, and send. Of course, you can just clean your draws and move on, if you want.

Jay

Down-climb and clean?

If they fell or want to back off, it is after the parts they could do and during or before the part they could not. Only the likes of big dynamics or a full dyno will make down climbing very difficult if not impossible.

Thank you for sharing your vast inexperience with us.

If down-climbing is so feasible, then why are all those bail biners out there?

Cleaning and downclimbing??????
That is just plain stupid and dangerous advice. If you can't make it through a crux and need to bail, most likely you've given it multiple attempts and are pumped.

Now you want them to continue to clean and downclimb in an ever increasing pump situation as the groundfall potential increases enormously towards the first bolt?

Take a rest first?.. then a rest at every bolt if needed?.


Get lowered from the second bolt, have your partner go up and clean the last 2?. Or.. again.. rest?.

If you want to leave a biner because you fail at down climbing a wall angle or moves that are more than feasible, don't feel bad.. but don;t call it dangerous for those who could?.

You have admitted yourself that you have limited experience climbing outside, so how many times have you actually tried to do this outside on a climb above your normal onsight ability? IME downclimbing in a gym is way different than downclimbing outside on sport routes harder than 5.10ish. So you spent a significant amount of time trying to work a crux and conceeded defeat, how long do you spend resting to get rid of the pump enough to be able to downclimb a route with 100% confidence? If you only expect to deck from the second bolt or lower you are in for a rude awakening on many routes around the world.

Cleaning and downclimbing??????
That is just plain stupid and dangerous advice. If you can't make it through a crux and need to bail, most likely you've given it multiple attempts and are pumped. Now you want them to continue to clean and downclimb in an ever increasing pump situation as the groundfall potential increases enormously towards the first bolt?

I know in sport climbing people don't consider that down climbing is valuable. I climb both sport and trad and down climbing is something I never did until I got into trad climbing. As I said earlier, it is a valuable tool to have in your kit. Guess it's the difference between 4 or 5 draws and 4 or 5 cams, slings and beaners. The difference... a draw costs about $10 and a cam alone about $50+.

Being able to downclimb proficiently in sport climbing is an important skill and utilized by a wide array of sport climbers at all levels IME. Being able to downclimb to a good resting stop is the key to sending many routes. The only thing I have a problem with is suggesting that as the go to solution to bailing on a route. While sport climbing it just isn't worth the risk to save $5.

I use one of these quick links....
[image]http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/336760_lg.jpg[/image]
there about $1-2 & at any hardware store you can find.

Also. after a year or 2 of climbing I'm sure you will find multiple bail biners & make them yours. I Tend have at least one bail biner on my harness all the time, plus using one to hold my chalk bag to my harness. which makes 2.

I use one of these quick links....

there about $1-2 & at any hardware store you can find.

Also. after a year or 2 of climbing I'm sure you will find multiple bail biners & make them yours. I Tend have at least one bail biner on my harness all the time, plus using one to hold my chalk bag to my harness. which makes 2.

Stop leaving your garbage all over the crag.

Those will rust up and be impossible to clean. It can also cause problems for the people climbing the route behind you interfering with their draws.

I mean for fuck sakes! You're using quicklinks from the hardware store, they're not even rated! People clip their draws directly to quicklinks people have left behind, and you're not even thinking about the garbage the you're putting up there.

Stop being so cheap and pick up some cheap biners. It's all of $5 for gear you shouldn't have to leave in the first place if you knew how to operate a stick clip.

LOL ... you make it sound like I climb where nobody will climb again in years. You really think that this will rust up within a day or two when another climber can remove it without any problem?

To set you straight in your obvious exaggeration of leaving my garbage all over the crag, I have use these just once in all the years I have been climbing. It was gone the next day when I returned to climb. You should really know what you are talking about before you run your mouth.

Stop leaving your garbage all over the crag.

Those will rust up and be impossible to clean. It can also cause problems for the people climbing the route behind you interfering with their draws.

I mean for fuck sakes! You're using quicklinks from the hardware store, they're not even rated! People clip their draws directly to quicklinks people have left behind, and you're not even thinking about the garbage the you're putting up there.

Stop being so cheap and pick up some cheap biners. It's all of $5 for gear you shouldn't have to leave in the first place if you knew how to operate a stick clip.

not rated? those things are strong! http://www.homehardware.ca/...l_EN?Ntt=quick+links I have only come across one while climbing and it is still on my harness. I agree with Chad.