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Pdawgy


Jul 4, 2011, 12:43 PM
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Free Solo Accident at the New in WV?
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Anyone have any info on if this is true, what the details are and if the climber survived...

Typical fireside banter at Roger's Saturday night brought up discussion of a guy named "Jerry" that had been free soloing drunk earlier in the day and fell 60 feet. He was apparently alive as of 5pm when he was evac'd. Not sure which, if any, of the details are true or if it was just gossip. Any beta? I really hope those details are wrong...


Partner j_ung


Jul 4, 2011, 2:33 PM
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Pdawgy wrote:
Anyone have any info on if this is true, what the details are and if the climber survived...

Typical fireside banter at Roger's Saturday night brought up discussion of a guy named "Jerry" that had been free soloing drunk earlier in the day and fell 60 feet. He was apparently alive as of 5pm when he was evac'd. Not sure which, if any, of the details are true or if it was just gossip. Any beta? I really hope those details are wrong...

I don't have a lot of details, except that he was free soloing laps on Angel's Arete at the Bridge Buttress. The route is graded 5.10a. He fell on his third lap. There are apparently no direct witnesses, so nobody knows precisely how high up he was when he fell. The landing zone sort of sucks. The word is that he lived, but has a long road to recovery ahead of him. I don't know the exact nature of his injuries.


Pdawgy


Jul 4, 2011, 2:49 PM
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Thanks for the info. Glad to hear he survived. No word on whether the drunk part was true or whether it was the overactive imagination of folks who think someone HAS to be drunk to free solo?


Partner j_ung


Jul 5, 2011, 7:09 AM
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Sorry, I got nothing on that front.


lena_chita
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Jul 5, 2011, 7:58 AM
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My htoughts are with the family of the unfortunate climber, I hope he survives and recovers.


We heard the garbled 3rd-person account at the campground this weekend, too. The same story as the OP mentioned. Definitely put a damper on the moods.

Just out of curiosity, Jay, if there no witnesses, how is it known that he fell on his 3rd lap?


mattiem


Jul 5, 2011, 12:03 PM
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I was a direct witness. I saw him fall. I didn't quite see the impact due to line of sight. I heard the sickening crash. My partner saw him tumble down the hill from her prospective halfway up the cliff on layback crack.

I was the first to see him on the ground and the second person over to him after one of the guides from a group got to him.

I am fairly sure it was his second time up angels arete not his third and he did zag in between.

He was definitely drunk. He drank a fifth of vodka and at least 3 beers and a 4th beer was opened but mostly full. I don't want to throw anyone under the bus here but fuck him for making us all deal with that. He was being HUGELY irresponsible, and fucked up a lot of peoples heads with his selfish antics.

I have nothing against soloing, i solo ice every year. I think there is certain etiquette one has to follow in soloing. You solo away from others and without forcing other people to be a part of it. Even if he was sober soloing at bridge at one of the busiest group areas on one of the busiest weekends of the year is bad form.

If anyone has more questions i will answer what i can.


sp115


Jul 5, 2011, 12:07 PM
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Props to you for trying to help despite whatever he did that contributed to getting himself hurt. You're fully deserving of some good karma.


Partner j_ung


Jul 5, 2011, 12:31 PM
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lena_chita wrote:
My htoughts are with the family of the unfortunate climber, I hope he survives and recovers.


We heard the garbled 3rd-person account at the campground this weekend, too. The same story as the OP mentioned. Definitely put a damper on the moods.

Just out of curiosity, Jay, if there no witnesses, how is it known that he fell on his 3rd lap?

I was mistaken about that. Nobody saw him hit the ground, but somebody(ies) did see him fall. There were people there.


leaverbiner


Jul 5, 2011, 12:57 PM
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Charles G. Fredricks Jr., 39, of Fayetteville . . . the article in the online version of the local paper confirms the above accounts. Multi-system trauma and serious injuries. We were at the lake but friends were at the Bridge and saw him soloing earlier in the day . . . they too said alcohol was clearly involved.

Sad on so many levels.


cals9


Jul 7, 2011, 10:21 AM
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Fayette County (WVVA) -- "A man fell while climbing within the New River Gorge National Park Saturday.
39-year-old, Charles G. Fredricks, Jr., of Fayetteville was free climbing in the Bridge Buttress area known as Angel's Arete. Fredericks was climbing alone without ropes or other protection. He was also not wearing a helmet.
Fredricks suffered multi-system trauma from the fall. As additional assistance from Fayette County Rope Rescue, Fayetteville Fire, Nuttall VFD, and Jan Care arrived, Fredricks was back boarded, placed into a litter, and carried out to Fayette Station Road.
He was transported by ambulance to the Burnwood campground where a waiting Health Net medical helicopter flew the injured man to Charleston Area Medical Center."
I was told by someone present that he seemed to be loaded, he was doing laps solo on Angels Arete (very polished after almost 25 yrs of use). Someone present also thought that he seemed to be engaged in suicide by rock climbing, being very despondent over a failing relationship. Charles Fredricks really needs our prayer, he seemed to be very messed up, Walking may be hard for him, let alone climbing. He needs a miracle to get his physical life turned around, let alone his spiritual and mental state. Please remember to pray for this man.

This was copied from General forum. I was down the New for the weekend and heard this, as someone told me that her fell on a climb I had put up in '85.


Pdawgy


Jul 7, 2011, 11:12 AM
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Ugh! Thanks for the info guys. I was really hoping the drunk part was a fabrication of someone's overactive imagination - but obviously not. I don't need to reiterate the absolute stupidity of those actions. However, what angers me most is that it risks ruining it for a larger group of people - climbers who are generally cautious, respectful and aware of the bigger implications of their actions. It sounds like this man had other issues to deal with and wasn't thinking from this perspective - if at all. I feel for him and wish him a speedy recovery of mind and body. But engaging in a sport like rockclimbing, which is inherently dangerous and requires one's full attention and concentration, DRUNK is one of the biggest party fouls I can think of. Save the beer (one beer) for the parking-lot after a long day of SAFE climbing. Freesoloing is another topic entirely that I am sure there are a million disparate opinions on and has been amply covered in other areas of this forum.


healyje


Jul 7, 2011, 11:19 AM
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Rock climbing actually has some history / tradition of breakup inspired solos, but I can't think of any that involved alcohol other than this one.


bearbreeder


Jul 7, 2011, 12:03 PM
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the legendary FFA of pipeline on the squaw was done as a free solo by someone who was said to be high

it may be embelishment .. but i think someone needs to be effing high to solo onsight a 10d offwidth like this

and with BC being the pot capital of the world ...




(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Jul 7, 2011, 12:15 PM)


healyje


Jul 7, 2011, 1:07 PM
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bearbreeder wrote:
the legendary FFA of pipeline on the squaw was done as a free solo by someone who was said to be high

High is not remotely the same as drunk.


bearbreeder


Jul 7, 2011, 1:14 PM
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climb in squamish ... youll see soloers have a few beers and start soloing in the bluffs ...

add a bit of weed ...


healyje


Jul 7, 2011, 1:41 PM
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May be, but I would posit more than about an ounce of alcohol is not going to help any more than getting completely blotto on a combustible.

FAA pilot instrument landing studies on the use of alcohol done in the 60's were pretty conclusive on the point. The pilots doing and ounce of alcohol did better in the simulator than either straight pilots or those pilots who had more than that.


Pdawgy


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As far as I know, A. Honnold was not drunk or high when he free solo'd the 12a NW Face of Halfdome. I don't care what the studies show, impairing your judgement when climbing is a bad idea - ESPECIALLY when free soloing.


healyje


Jul 7, 2011, 2:54 PM
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Pdawgy wrote:
As far as I know, A. Honnold was not drunk or high when he free solo'd the 12a NW Face of Halfdome. I don't care what the studies show, impairing your judgement when climbing is a bad idea - ESPECIALLY when free soloing.

That's the point - the FAA studies showed an ounce of alcohol improved pilots' performance and judgment over no alcohol or more alcohol than that.


fresh


Jul 7, 2011, 3:02 PM
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for what it's worth, I was talking to him at the base of Zag (right next to Angel's Arete) about an hour before he fell. super nice guy, and he was pretty solid while soloing. seemed to be really in his element and enjoying himself. I was surprised when matt told me later that he'd been drinking. hope he recovers well.


csproul


Jul 8, 2011, 5:07 AM
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healyje wrote:
Pdawgy wrote:
As far as I know, A. Honnold was not drunk or high when he free solo'd the 12a NW Face of Halfdome. I don't care what the studies show, impairing your judgement when climbing is a bad idea - ESPECIALLY when free soloing.

That's the point - the FAA studies showed an ounce of alcohol improved pilots' performance and judgment over no alcohol or more alcohol than that.
The problem with alcohol (at least my problem!) is that one ounce almost always leads to two.


notapplicable


Jul 8, 2011, 5:56 AM
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bearbreeder wrote:
the legendary FFA of pipeline on the squaw was done as a free solo by someone who was said to be high

it may be embelishment .. but i think someone needs to be effing high to solo onsight a 10d offwidth like this

and with BC being the pot capital of the world ...


What a fantastic looking route! If didn't already have reason to want to climb at Squamish, I damn sure do now.


rescueman


Jul 8, 2011, 7:15 PM
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healyje wrote:
FAA pilot instrument landing studies on the use of alcohol done in the 60's were pretty conclusive on the point. The pilots doing and ounce of alcohol did better in the simulator than either straight pilots or those pilots who had more than that.

Other studies have demonstrated that people who drink in moderation statistically outlive either those who drink too much or those who don't drink at all.

Nice to hear people wishing this man well, but I would rather he died. In surviving, he required the services of four emergency response agencies, a medical evac helicopter and God knows how much surgery and physical therapy.

When those who truly need medical care or rescue services (I've been doing technical rescue and medical response for 20 years) can't afford it while self-destructive drunks (a fifth of vodka and 3+ beers!) get all the free attention and a lot of media coverage - there's something unjust and immoral in this scenario.

Where is Darwin when we need him?


notapplicable


Jul 8, 2011, 10:09 PM
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rescueman wrote:
healyje wrote:
FAA pilot instrument landing studies on the use of alcohol done in the 60's were pretty conclusive on the point. The pilots doing and ounce of alcohol did better in the simulator than either straight pilots or those pilots who had more than that.

Other studies have demonstrated that people who drink in moderation statistically outlive either those who drink too much or those who don't drink at all.

Nice to hear people wishing this man well, but I would rather he died. In surviving, he required the services of four emergency response agencies, a medical evac helicopter and God knows how much surgery and physical therapy.

When those who truly need medical care or rescue services (I've been doing technical rescue and medical response for 20 years) can't afford it while self-destructive drunks (a fifth of vodka and 3+ beers!) get all the free attention and a lot of media coverage - there's something unjust and immoral in this scenario.

Where is Darwin when we need him?

You must be one of those lucky few who has never made a bad decision or done something stupid in their life. Congratulations.


uni_jim


Jul 8, 2011, 10:52 PM
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rescueman wrote:
healyje wrote:
FAA pilot instrument landing studies on the use of alcohol done in the 60's were pretty conclusive on the point. The pilots doing and ounce of alcohol did better in the simulator than either straight pilots or those pilots who had more than that.

Other studies have demonstrated that people who drink in moderation statistically outlive either those who drink too much or those who don't drink at all.

Nice to hear people wishing this man well, but I would rather he died. In surviving, he required the services of four emergency response agencies, a medical evac helicopter and God knows how much surgery and physical therapy.

When those who truly need medical care or rescue services (I've been doing technical rescue and medical response for 20 years) can't afford it while self-destructive drunks (a fifth of vodka and 3+ beers!) get all the free attention and a lot of media coverage - there's something unjust and immoral in this scenario.

Where is Darwin when we need him?

fuck you.


jt512


Jul 8, 2011, 11:38 PM
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healyje wrote:
Pdawgy wrote:
As far as I know, A. Honnold was not drunk or high when he free solo'd the 12a NW Face of Halfdome. I don't care what the studies show, impairing your judgement when climbing is a bad idea - ESPECIALLY when free soloing.

That's the point - the FAA studies showed an ounce of alcohol improved pilots' performance and judgment over no alcohol or more alcohol than that.

Could you provide a citation to where those studies were published?

Jay


jt512


Jul 8, 2011, 11:40 PM
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rescueman wrote:
healyje wrote:
FAA pilot instrument landing studies on the use of alcohol done in the 60's were pretty conclusive on the point. The pilots doing and ounce of alcohol did better in the simulator than either straight pilots or those pilots who had more than that.

Other studies have demonstrated that people who drink in moderation statistically outlive either those who drink too much or those who don't drink at all.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with the effect of acute alcohol consumption on the risk of falling while free soloing, piloting ability, or anything else.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Jul 8, 2011, 11:42 PM)


sandstone


Jul 9, 2011, 6:19 AM
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rescueman wrote:
...Nice to hear people wishing this man well, but I would rather he died...

Rescueman, you need to jump down off that high horse you think you are on. Walk away from it a few paces and look back. You'll be able to see what others clearly see.

You'll discover that the idea of riding high on a lofty and noble steed is in your mind alone -- you've been on a rather ordinary jackass the whole time.

God help you when stresses in your life reach the point you don't know how to handle them. May you be given the compassion you are unwilling to give others.

If you think you have such control over your life that you will never be in that position, that is also just a delusion that exists only in your mind. You're not fooling anyone but yourself.


gdburns


Jul 9, 2011, 6:44 AM
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I was going to bump the "FU". Sandstone, your response is clear, concise and articulate. +1

Wishing someone death is such poor form...

I will say a prayer for this man, and as others have said, pray for him that his mind and body be healed.


(This post was edited by gdburns on Jul 9, 2011, 6:45 AM)


kikitastrophe


Jul 9, 2011, 7:47 AM
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I'm not sure I trust the (unreferenced) study that suggests a tiny amount of etoh is better than none. This study seems to suggest any amount increases errors:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2012569

"Total errors increased linearly and significantly with increasing blood alcohol. Planning and performance errors, procedural errors and failures of vigilance each increased significantly in one or more pilots and in the group as a whole... Serious errors increased significantly even at the lowest alcohol level studied, 0.025% (25 mg/dl), compared with control values."

This was poor judgement on his part, but can we move forward and take something from this:

Would you stop someone from free-soloing if you noticed that they were intoxicated? Would you try and stop them/call authorities to try and prevent this kind of accident?

I'm not trying to suggest that anyone at the Bridge could of stopped this particular incident (I wasn't there, so I have no idea how obvious it was that he was intoxicated), but I also wonder if I'd be willing to intervene before an accident happened or if I'd just look the other way/leave. Maybe we should be better at policing ourselves before something like this brings down outside regulation (area closures, etc.)


notapplicable


Jul 9, 2011, 9:42 AM
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kikitastrophe wrote:
This was poor judgement on his part, but can we move forward and take something from this:

Would you stop someone from free-soloing if you noticed that they were intoxicated? Would you try and stop them/call authorities to try and prevent this kind of accident?

I'm not trying to suggest that anyone at the Bridge could of stopped this particular incident (I wasn't there, so I have no idea how obvious it was that he was intoxicated), but I also wonder if I'd be willing to intervene before an accident happened or if I'd just look the other way/leave. Maybe we should be better at policing ourselves before something like this brings down outside regulation (area closures, etc.)

Well, when it comes to someone getting behind the wheel while intoxicated, I would say there is a moral obligation to intervene because they are endangering far more than than their own life & limb. That was not the case here and I've never been one to agree with the notion that I am so obliged to save someone from themselves. I surely understand why people struggle with the idea of standing idly by and I know many would be incapable of doing so, but I do not think there is a moral imperative at play in such a situation as this.


(This post was edited by notapplicable on Jul 9, 2011, 9:43 AM)


bearbreeder


Jul 9, 2011, 9:52 AM
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the issue is what is "unsafe" is a very slippery slope and personal

would you stop someone from doing an X rated climb ... how about R rated ...

how about free soloing period ...

how about using "dyneema" slings because you consider them unsafe

etc ...

there are usually a few know it alls who want to show off that will tell you in much detail how "unsafe" you are ...


jakedatc


Jul 9, 2011, 1:20 PM
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bearbreeder wrote:
the issue is what is "unsafe" is a very slippery slope and personal

would you stop someone from doing an X rated climb ... how about R rated ...

how about free soloing period ...

how about using "dyneema" slings because you consider them unsafe

etc ...

there are usually a few know it alls who want to show off that will tell you in much detail how "unsafe" you are ...

once again bearbreeder has no idea what they are talking about and clearly are not reading what is being said.

The person soloing was drunk, the guy asked if you would stop someone from soloing if they were drunk. intoxicated people tend to not have the best judgment hence why it is illegal to do many things while in that state. So when someone is in that state it sometimes takes another person with better judgment to step in and protect them from themselves.

Would you not stop someone from running around in traffic if they were clearly drunk? at least call the authorities so they could intervene.

no one said anything about the other things you mentioned. try to keep up.


rescueman


Jul 9, 2011, 5:12 PM
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Re: [notapplicable] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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notapplicable wrote:
You must be one of those lucky few who has never made a bad decision or done something stupid in their life. Congratulations.

Drinking a fifth of vodka and three beers and then free soloing at a crowded crag?

Stupid doesn't even come close. This guy wanted to die and didn't care if he took others down with him.

uni_jim wrote:
fuck you.

You're up next for the Darwin award.


carabiner96


Jul 9, 2011, 7:09 PM
Post #34 of 50 (3993 views)
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Re: [rescueman] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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rescueman wrote:
notapplicable wrote:
You must be one of those lucky few who has never made a bad decision or done something stupid in their life. Congratulations.

Drinking a fifth of vodka and three beers and then free soloing at a crowded crag?

Stupid doesn't even come close. This guy wanted to die and didn't care if he took others down with him.

uni_jim wrote:
fuck you.

You're up next for the Darwin award.
*facepalm*

Can we get a banz from this asshole for clearly stating he would rather someone who survived had died in this BLUE FORUM???


blondgecko
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Jul 9, 2011, 7:47 PM
Post #35 of 50 (3974 views)
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Re: [carabiner96] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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carabiner96 wrote:
Can we get a banz from this asshole for clearly stating he would rather someone who survived had died in this BLUE FORUM???

You sure can. "Rescue"man - you're out of here for a month. A second offense will lead to a permanent ban.

I'm going to leave the comment and its replies up, because the replies in general made good points.


carabiner96


Jul 9, 2011, 8:08 PM
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Re: [blondgecko] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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blondgecko wrote:
carabiner96 wrote:
Can we get a banz from this asshole for clearly stating he would rather someone who survived had died in this BLUE FORUM???

You sure can. "Rescue"man - you're out of here for a month. A second offense will lead to a permanent ban.

I'm going to leave the comment and its replies up, because the replies in general made good points.

And they say you guys are useless :)


blondgecko
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Jul 9, 2011, 8:26 PM
Post #37 of 50 (3948 views)
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Re: [carabiner96] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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carabiner96 wrote:
blondgecko wrote:
carabiner96 wrote:
Can we get a banz from this asshole for clearly stating he would rather someone who survived had died in this BLUE FORUM???

You sure can. "Rescue"man - you're out of here for a month. A second offense will lead to a permanent ban.

I'm going to leave the comment and its replies up, because the replies in general made good points.

And they say you guys are useless :)

Mostly. Smile


bearbreeder


Jul 9, 2011, 8:46 PM
Post #38 of 50 (3937 views)
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Re: [jakedatc] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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Come to squamish youll need to bring handcuffs to stop all the soloers ... Or those that have a weed or a few beers while climbing

Im sure you can walk around with a breathalizer and police everyone ;)

What are you going to do to stop someone .... Tackle em? .... Try doing that on the apron ...


jakedatc wrote:

The person soloing was drunk, the guy asked if you would stop someone from soloing if they were drunk. intoxicated people tend to not have the best judgment hence why it is illegal to do many things while in that state. So when someone is in that state it sometimes takes another person with better judgment to step in and protect them from themselves.


carabiner96


Jul 9, 2011, 8:53 PM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
Come to squamish youll need to bring handcuffs to stop all the soloers ... Or those that have a weed or a few beers while climbing

Im sure you can walk around with a breathalizer and police everyone ;)

What are you going to do to stop someone .... Tackle em? .... Try doing that on the apron ...


jakedatc wrote:

The person soloing was drunk, the guy asked if you would stop someone from soloing if they were drunk. intoxicated people tend to not have the best judgment hence why it is illegal to do many things while in that state. So when someone is in that state it sometimes takes another person with better judgment to step in and protect them from themselves.
My forehead is getting sore from this thread.


healyje


Jul 11, 2011, 2:26 AM
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Re: [kikitastrophe] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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kikitastrophe wrote:
I'm not sure I trust the (unreferenced) study that suggests a tiny amount of etoh is better than none. This study seems to suggest any amount increases errors:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2012569

The study I 'unreferenced' was conducted in the 60's by United and the FAA and my father was part of the study. Way more than four pilots were tested and they weren't tested for anal adherence to flight policies which is what the study you referenced was measuring. The study my father was part of measured the quality and accuracy of repeated instrument landings - in that study one ounce of alcohol was ideal.


killingmorethancancer


Jul 11, 2011, 5:28 AM
Post #41 of 50 (3795 views)
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Re: [Pdawgy] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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I am really sorry to hear that this tragic accident took place. This guy was making some pretty bad decisions with alcohol that day and soloing mixed with drinking well that... well I do not need to say anymore about that. However we have no idea what this guy was going through in his life and could have just been at a mega low point that we all have been to. He made a bad choice and he is paying for it. I wish the best for this guy and his family.


csproul


Jul 11, 2011, 6:03 AM
Post #42 of 50 (3779 views)
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Re: [blondgecko] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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blondgecko wrote:
carabiner96 wrote:
Can we get a banz from this asshole for clearly stating he would rather someone who survived had died in this BLUE FORUM???

You sure can. "Rescue"man - you're out of here for a month. A second offense will lead to a permanent ban.

I'm going to leave the comment and its replies up, because the replies in general made good points.
I think a ban was uncalled for. I think this is an extreme situation and is going to bring out extreme reactions. It is not surprising that such a self-inflicted and selfish accident would stir up such anger from others. If this had been a drunk driver, fewer people would have objected to a similar opinion.


troutboy


Jul 11, 2011, 6:55 AM
Post #43 of 50 (3760 views)
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Re: [jt512] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
Could you provide a citation to where those studies were published?

Jay


I'd be surprised if they exist.

Here is a brief from the FAA that states otherwise (note the citation of impairment at an extremely low BAC). http://www.faa.gov/...es/media/alcohol.pdf

In reply to:
The number of serious errors committed by pilots dramatically increases at or above concentrations of 0.04% blood alcohol. This is not to say that problems donít occur below this value. Some studies have shown decrements in pilot performance with blood alcohol concentrations as low as the 0.025%.

Of course, this is not a scientific publication but it does contain what appears to be supportable (and I presume repeatable) data, from such a study.
TS


kachoong


Jul 11, 2011, 7:13 AM
Post #44 of 50 (3746 views)
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Re: [csproul] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
blondgecko wrote:
carabiner96 wrote:
Can we get a banz from this asshole for clearly stating he would rather someone who survived had died in this BLUE FORUM???

You sure can. "Rescue"man - you're out of here for a month. A second offense will lead to a permanent ban.

I'm going to leave the comment and its replies up, because the replies in general made good points.
I think a ban was uncalled for. I think this is an extreme situation and is going to bring out extreme reactions. It is not surprising that such a self-inflicted and selfish accident would stir up such anger from others. If this had been a drunk driver, fewer people would have objected to a similar opinion.

I disagree and, along with other mods, supported BG's decision. As the poster before you suggested, this guy could have been going through all sorts of personal stuff. To imply that he deserved worse is wrong for anyone to say, whether he was a drunk climber or driver. The anonymity of the internet should still keep people from saying out loud everything they're thinking... unfortunately it doesn't.


dynosore


Jul 11, 2011, 7:38 AM
Post #45 of 50 (3728 views)
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Re: [healyje] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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healyje wrote:
kikitastrophe wrote:
I'm not sure I trust the (unreferenced) study that suggests a tiny amount of etoh is better than none. This study seems to suggest any amount increases errors:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2012569

The study I 'unreferenced' was conducted in the 60's by United and the FAA and my father was part of the study. Way more than four pilots were tested and they weren't tested for anal adherence to flight policies which is what the study you referenced was measuring. The study my father was part of measured the quality and accuracy of repeated instrument landings - in that study one ounce of alcohol was ideal.

I find this plausible. Landing a plane in particular can be stressful. So many things happening at once.....


dan2see


Jul 11, 2011, 7:56 AM
Post #46 of 50 (3708 views)
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Re: [blondgecko] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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blondgecko wrote:
carabiner96 wrote:
Can we get a banz from this asshole for clearly stating he would rather someone who survived had died in this BLUE FORUM???

You sure can. "Rescue"man - you're out of here for a month. A second offense will lead to a permanent ban.

I'm going to leave the comment and its replies up, because the replies in general made good points.

I understand Carabiner96's logic as it applies to the "Incident Analysis" forum.

My own problem with Rescueman was the constant level of arrogance he displayed. I was working on ignoring any post I saw from him. An imperfect strategy but I do that with television commercials. The problem with that is, it gets in the way when I'm reading everybody else's posts.

It's similar to mosquitoes on the trail. They're a part of the scene, and they don't stop me. But it sure is easier without their buzzing.

So thanks BG for the relief.


Partner wormly81


Jul 11, 2011, 2:59 PM
Post #47 of 50 (3626 views)
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Re: [rescueman] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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rescueman wrote:
but I would rather he died.

May you recognize the shamefulness of what you said and become a better person for it.

Hoping the injured guy the best in his post accident life.


onrockandice


Jul 14, 2011, 2:26 PM
Post #48 of 50 (3480 views)
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Re: [Pdawgy] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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Pdawgy wrote:
As far as I know, A. Honnold was not drunk or high when he free solo'd the 12a NW Face of Halfdome. I don't care what the studies show, impairing your judgement when climbing is a bad idea - ESPECIALLY when free soloing.

I know Alex and talked with him at length about this solo and I assure he was not drunk. He had 3 friends there and these are good guys. They wouldn't let him go if he wasn't 100% sober. Plus in other quotes Honnold hates beer and alcohol. Outside interviewed him and he states in that interview he hates alcohol. He stated some other stuff that cost him his North Face sponsorship too...


onrockandice


Jul 14, 2011, 2:40 PM
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Re: [csproul] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
blondgecko wrote:
You sure can. "Rescue"man - you're out of here for a month. A second offense will lead to a permanent ban.

I think a ban was uncalled for...

Called for! The rules are pretty clear. He must have been drunk or he didn't read them.

In terms of strong reactions calling for the death of anyone is not a strong reaction that's called hate. Really it makes hate seem passive.

No a 30-day ban is just fine. In fact a 30-day fine + last warning would probably be about right. That's just such an awful thing to say and clearly he meant it which is really scary.


Pdawgy


Jul 14, 2011, 4:53 PM
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Re: [onrockandice] Free Solo Accident at the New in WV? [In reply to]
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I was not suggesting Alex was drunk during that solo. I was making a point to the person who that said someone needs to be high to free-solo a 10d... as well as the dude arguing that alcohol can improve performance.

I think the point here is clear - as far as accident and incident analysis goes, it is pretty cut and dry:

Accident: 60 foot fall while free-soloing intoxicated.

Analysis: a) No gear malfunction as no gear was used, b) No gear user error, as no gear was used, c) cause of fall - alcohol, over-confidence about climbing ability and/or freak accident.

Conclusions/Takeways: Climbing while impaired can lead to severe injury. Risk is increased when free-soloing. Best way to avoid this type of accident in the future - don't climb while impaired.

That's it.


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