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healyje
Jul 8, 2011, 1:16 AM
Post #26 of 27
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Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4186
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JAB wrote: sungam wrote: Shit, that sucks. Really, really sucks. But isn't frosted flake only like a 50/60 foot route? Am I mis-remembering? I think this is a good example of why these accidents happen. Many seem to think that knots at the end of the rope are unnecessary on short routes. Nothing could be more wrong. Knots might be a backup to screwing up being at the middle of the rope, but at best they are just that - a backup to the real problem of an uneven rap, the problem that needs to be addressed and not glossed over because you tie knots. There are many situations where not tying a knot is a good idea, but "it's just a short rappell" is not one of them.
Hmmm. I quess I fundamentally don't really buy into the knotted end deal. I do on occasion when I feel circumstances warrant it, but that is by no means a majority of the time. What I do believe strongly about is insuring you are rapping off the middle of the rope 100% of the time - even on short routes. One end may end up hung up somewhere, but you won't rap off the end of one side.
The failure to employ some means of insuring you're rapping off the middle of the rope - be it marks, hand over hand from the two ends, or a bipattern doesn't matter - but some surefire means should always be employed regardless. These uneven rap accidents simply shouldn't be happening and certainly not with this frequency or clustering.
Just saying 'tie knots' doesn't directly address the basic problem of an uneven rap rope. Address that problem by going hand-over-hand from the two ends, a bipattern rope, or an ppropriate middle mark - whatever so long as you have a reliable method of insuring you are rapping off the middle of the rope.
Focusing on knots is like focusing on the splice in the 'spliced webbing' thread when the focus should be on the fact the anchor wasn't redundant against a single component failure.
(This post was edited by healyje on Jul 8, 2011, 1:23 AM)
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socalclimber
Jul 10, 2011, 4:40 PM
Post #27 of 27
(479 views)
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Registered: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 2374
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healyje wrote: 'Training', such as it is these days, may play some role in uneven rappel rope accidents among newer climbers, but doesn't account for the experienced climbers who are part of the recent cluster of uneven rap accidents. Before sport climbing and gyms 'training' was a matter of mentoring; the demographics these days don't support that model anymore so it's more books, internet, and guides. Don't have any thoughts on a solution to that ( that anyone would like). I'm equally at a loss to explain this cluster among experienced climbers as it's such an easy situation to avoid. 'Complacency' is an easy answer, but I suspect an incomplete one. P.S. Example from today's news of how deadly falls can be - this one at a baseball game trying catch a ball: http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stories/ci_18436166
The mentoring concept is one of the things I think that is critical to the accident rates. New climbers are mentoring new climbers. It did not used to be that way. Basically, it's the blind leading the blind.
Guiding certainly isn't the answer either. Simply because it depends on the guide and what they teach. Plus the fact, you only have the client for a limited time.
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