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herites


Jul 6, 2011, 4:06 AM
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Bowline or figure eight?
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Which is your preferred method for tying in? Also, if you use bowline, how you tie it off? Stopper in the loop, or above the knot, like when you tie off the fig8.

Question two: I've read that the bowline is less safe than the fig8, but way easier to untie. For general one-pitch sport climbing, bolts spreaded at 3-4 meter distances is the bowline safe enough, or stick to the good old fig8 (which is pita to loosen after projecting a route)


scottek67


Jul 6, 2011, 4:12 AM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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this should be a poll. 8 all the way.


swaghole


Jul 6, 2011, 4:40 AM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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Only figure 8 for me. It's safer and one less thing to worry about.


scrapedape


Jul 6, 2011, 5:01 AM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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I use both, but mostly a double bowline, with a stopper inside the loop.


socalclimber


Jul 6, 2011, 5:41 AM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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herites wrote:
Which is your preferred method for tying in? Also, if you use bowline, how you tie it off? Stopper in the loop, or above the knot, like when you tie off the fig8.

Question two: I've read that the bowline is less safe than the fig8, but way easier to untie. For general one-pitch sport climbing, bolts spreaded at 3-4 meter distances is the bowline safe enough, or stick to the good old fig8 (which is pita to loosen after projecting a route)

Stick with the figure 8. Bowlines are just fine for anchoring around trees and BFR's (Big Fucking Rocks). Lot's of accidents that were preventable have happened over the years due to improperly tied bowlines. Use the right knot for the job at hand. There is a reason climbers largely stopped using the bowline and started using the figure 8.

Bowlines are great knots, just for other uses.


(This post was edited by socalclimber on Jul 6, 2011, 5:42 AM)


sp115


Jul 6, 2011, 5:49 AM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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Re-threaded bowline (NOT a regular bowline) solves the concern about safety (prematurely untieing) and cinching up when weighted.


billl7


Jul 6, 2011, 6:05 AM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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I believe I would have stuck with a bowline tie-in, a rethreaded version, if it weren't for two things:

i) my gym requires a figure 8 tie-in;

ii) with new folks, the figure 8 is so much easier for them to recognize.

Bill L


mikebarter387


Jul 6, 2011, 6:56 AM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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http://youtu.be/dCEM4BGU0YU


edge


Jul 6, 2011, 7:04 AM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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Personally I use a figure 8 with a Yosemite finish, but when teaching I advocate a traditional figure 8 follow through with a double fishermans back-up knot, mainly because of the ease of checking the knot visually.


lena_chita
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Jul 6, 2011, 7:16 AM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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Figure 8 most of the time, out of habbit.

I tie in with double bow-line (re-threaded back through tie-in points, and finished with a stopper knot above the bowline) only when I consciously think: "O.K., I will be taking several biggish falls, the 8 knot would be a pain to untie."

Obviously it is a good pracice to know how to tie both knots, and their variations. Some of my partners always tie in with bowline. Unless I don't know how to tie the knot myself, I will not be able to visually check their knot -- one layer of safety check lost.


Sheldon


Jul 6, 2011, 7:22 AM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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Double bowline with a stopper knot on the loop for anything single pitch. I work the loops out and give it lots of tugs too, there is no slop in it.

I use the fig 8 on multipitch routes where I might not be weighting the rope frequently or at all. I also use it if the rope is stiff, a new Edleweiss Performance comes to mind.

I think if I had to choose, I'd choose the 8. Since I don't, I bet 80% of my tying in is with the bowline.


Partner cracklover


Jul 6, 2011, 8:02 AM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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Which is your preferred method for tying in?
Bowline for leading single pitch, fig 8 for multi-pitch or following single pitch.

Also, if you use bowline, how you tie it off? Stopper in the loop, or above the knot, like when you tie off the fig8.
Double bowline with a double fisherman's outside the knot, tail pointing down into harness.

I've read that the bowline is less safe than the fig8, but way easier to untie. For general one-pitch sport climbing, bolts spreaded at 3-4 meter distances is the bowline safe enough, or stick to the good old fig8 (which is pita to loosen after projecting a route)

A properly tied bowline with a backup is perfectly safe, and is my tie-in of choice if I might take a lead fall. However, since it can work itself loose in time more easily than the fig-8, I prefer the ease of not having to keep checking it on a long multipitch, and stick to the fig-8 for those.

GO


rnevius


Jul 6, 2011, 8:03 AM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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Figure 8 every time. I never really understood the complaints about it being difficult to untie after projecting...sure it cinches down tight, but I've never had it take a considerable amount of time to untie.


granite_grrl


Jul 6, 2011, 9:00 AM
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Re: [rnevius] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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I use a double bowline with a double fisherman's above. It takes some training, but it's not bad to visually inspect yourself and tell that there's something wrong. With the double check procedure it may be darn near impossible for your partner to tell if it's right, but I always take a good look at it myself when we do our checks and verify that things are good myself.

It's not a knot I'd advocate for everyone. It's great if you're falling a lot, and I feel it's more compact of a knot if you're working a route, but I don't even use it all the time myself. When I'm ice climbing I use a figure8, I just have too many layers on and don't have as clear a view of my own knot.


healyje


Jul 6, 2011, 10:03 AM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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A bowline is no less safe than an eight if you are competent.

In reply to:
There is a reason climbers largely stopped using the bowline and started using the figure 8.

Yes, there is - gyms. It's easier to verify so that's what gets taught. But if you climb steep and roofs an eight is a ridiculous knot to use.


bearbreeder


Jul 6, 2011, 10:25 AM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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new climbers imo should only use the 8

what they use later is up to them

as to steep and overhanging walls ... this gumbay with the funny name uses an 8 on a 5.15a

shwarma or some other kind of fallafel i think Wink




jt512


Jul 6, 2011, 11:24 AM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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herites wrote:
Which is your preferred method for tying in? Also, if you use bowline, how you tie it off?

I use a double bowline with a bowline lock-off almost 100% of the time.



Jay


healyje


Jul 6, 2011, 11:44 AM
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Re: [jt512] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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Double bowline with a Czech finish 100% of the time.




JimTitt


Jul 6, 2011, 12:19 PM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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Re-threaded bowline (called the one-and-a- half bowline in Germany). I´m fatter than Sharma, my fingers are weaker, I get pumped to shit and I haven´t got a company rep. to undo my knot for me.


Partner rgold


Jul 6, 2011, 12:34 PM
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Re: [healyje] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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I use a double bowline with so-called Yosemite finish (around long before the Yosemite climbers somehow managed to appropriate the name) and a double-overhand backup, for everything from small crags to big walls and alpine climbing, except for the gym, where I use a single bowline with the aforementioned backups.

For 54 years now.

Pay attention to what you are doing and you don't need a partner to check it. I understand guides and gyms wanting and/or needing to check knots, but climbers who are on their own should be able to tie in fer chrissake.

All that said, there is only one way to improperly tie a bowline and not have it instantly fall apart in your hands, and this form is very easy to recognize because the load strand is coming out of the wrong place. So I would question the claim that the bowline is any harder to check than a figure-8.

I think any problems with a bowline have come from tying the knot without any of the various backups, in which case it is subject to loosening. If we could somehow change the terminology so that what are now called the back-ups were actually part of the knot, there would be no question about the renamed bowline's security.

How badly a figure-8 seizes up after loading depends on the duration and severity of the load and also on the particular rope. I've seen a single moderate fall tighten a figure-8 so badly that tools were needed to undo it, and I've seen countless less severe but still exasperating struggles. Obviously, YMMV.


sungam


Jul 6, 2011, 12:42 PM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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I'd just like to take this chance to say

HEY ED! I'm still waiting for the lowdown on the Trident Loop!


sp115


Jul 6, 2011, 1:28 PM
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Re: [sungam] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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BTW, didn't we just do this a few months ago?

http://www.rockclimbing.com/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;


(This post was edited by sp115 on Jul 6, 2011, 1:28 PM)


ACLSRN


Jul 14, 2011, 3:59 PM
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Re: [sp115] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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Fig 8 all the time, every time.


stoneguy


Jul 18, 2011, 5:58 PM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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I wouldn't argue with the pro's, but knowing a Bowline can be a lifesaver.(for other stuff) I can tie one in three seconds and untie it in five. If you need to save someone, or get down fast, it's good to have. Also has a handy loop, making it easier to grab or put your arms in like a sling.


superchuffer


Jul 18, 2011, 7:55 PM
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Re: [herites] Bowline or figure eight? [In reply to]
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granny knot, because jesus loves me

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