Forums: Community: The Soap Box:
Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature...
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for The Soap Box

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 Next page Last page  View All


I_do


Sep 22, 2011, 7:40 AM
Post #26 of 108 (1530 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 2, 2008
Posts: 1232

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
I_do wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
veganclimber wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
Again people playing with words to make them fit their needs. At no point did I say catholic charities should handle health care. I did say that catholic charities is an organization, within our society, that helped me, a member of society, with a crisis. I don't care if you feel it better to pan handle for the funds, than use catholic charities.

Well, now I know what to do if I get cancer. Stand on a corner and collect change. That should take care of the bills.

In reply to:
Your medical bills are your responsibility not mine or your neighbors unless I or your neighbor care to help you. It's not our governments responsibility to handle our personal affairs.

Most people are barely getting by as it is. Then you get hit with a huge medical bill. What are you supposed to do? Die? I'll keep asking that until you answer it.

In reply to:
It is my responsibility to care for myself and if I can't I need to make the nessacary arrangements through whatever means I can. I my case, catholic charities offered to help in my time of need and I was grateful for the help. In return I offer to help them help others. Pretty simple when you actually think about it.

Pretty simple if you don't think of it too much. I would say that your case was very unusual. No church can make a habit of paying large medical bills on a regular basis. You can't expect the church or other charity to come through and help every sick person out there. So what do you suggest for those that don't receive charity?

In reply to:
Support who you want to support, help who you want to help not who the government says needs help! I also give to the local Baptist church's food pantry, maybe foodstamps should be thing of the past as well. Then maybe the young mother will not be using yours tax dollars and mine to buy ho-ho's for her six kids at the local gas/conivence store with them. Have a nice discussion.

There are about 40 million people on foodstamps in this country. You want to cut that off too? If you had your way the churches would be flooded with sick and hungry people. Far too many for them to handle.


Do you have any idea how much of your income goes to supporting government and it's activities? From the 40+ cents a gallon in federal taxes we pay on gasoline to the yearly property tax to the friction $5 I pay in federal taxes on my cable bill. Taxes taken after taxes eat a large percentage of our take home pay. If you and I and everyone else had that money in our pockets each and everyone of us would be better of and better prepared to give aid when one is in need. Can you give thousands to help your neighbor? Most can not, however shrinking government to a small percentage of what it currently is would reduce the funding required to maintain it. That alone increases the available funds for charity work because it puts more money in your pocket your neighbors pocket and my pocket a $14000 hospital bill may not be disastrous if my pay was nearly double. I may have been perfectly able to pay it without any help. And as far as $10000 aids meds, how much would they cost if the government was not involved with regulating them?

It's a never ending battle between those that take responsibility and those that do not. Last point on you question of a large medical bill and dying, our government in one of it's actual good decisions made a law that Requires medical personnel and hospitals to provide medical care to those in need regardless of their ability to pay for it. So you just go to the hospital they won't let you die!

First bold; fuck you, I take responsibility for myself and all of society even those not in a position or without the common sense to take care for themselves by paying into a government system I believe in.

second bold; so now you do expect the government to help people that do need take care of themselves, do you want them to or not? Make up your mind.

Third; you DIDN'T take care of yourself, you were fortunate enough to have an outside organization help you out, not a good example for your own system.

You are so full of shit.

Mama taught me never to argue with an idiot and you sir are!

I am glad you came up with another insightfull post without adressing any of the direct questions asked by several people. My tone has not been the most gentle but I think the message still stands. A message which you seem to be unable to respond to.

If you happened to have missed it I was actually responding to the content of your posts as well as many others.

Time to put up or shut up.


Partner rrrADAM


Sep 22, 2011, 7:54 AM
Post #27 of 108 (1524 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17543

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
In reply to:
[snip]
Mama taught me never to argue with an idiot and you sir are!

Doug... I trust you are going to address/answer my direct questions to you?

No?


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Sep 22, 2011, 7:56 AM)


DougMartin


Sep 22, 2011, 8:50 AM
Post #28 of 108 (1511 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2011
Posts: 138

Re: [traddad] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

traddad wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
Mama taught me never to argue with an idiot and you sir are!

Complete coward.

No just not going to debate a person that can not avoid personal insults, To continue with him would place me on the same level!


hugepedro


Sep 22, 2011, 8:51 AM
Post #29 of 108 (1509 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 2875

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
The government has no business in health care and the government is not responsible for anyone's health.

Hey Doug, Im curious as to why you think government has no business in health care, can you explain that for me?

And a follow-up, what do you think government does have business in?


DougMartin wrote:
we don't need the federal or any other government organization to do it for us all while taking their two cents from the pie!!

Its interesting that you chose the words two cents, because when government provides health care it does it with an administrative overhead of about 2%, whereas the insurance industry has a typical overhead of about 18%.

So you prefer paying 18 cents on your dollar rather than 2 cents? Im cool if you like to pay more, but Id prefer that you dont force me to have to pay more as well.


Partner rrrADAM


Sep 22, 2011, 9:06 AM
Post #30 of 108 (1500 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17543

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
traddad wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
Mama taught me never to argue with an idiot and you sir are!

Complete coward.

No just not going to debate a person that can not avoid personal insults, To continue with him would place me on the same level!
This is two replies from you, addressing pettiness, but not my direct questions to you. To be honest, while you are saying you don't want to lower yourself to petty insults, your last two posts have zero content, and are, in fact, just petty insults.

You use the word "debate" above, and that means 'two way', as in "discourse", not just 'one way' my friend.

While direct, I am being respectful.

Please, copy, paste, and answer my questions in regards to your stated position.

Here, they are here:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540899#2540899
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540902#2540902
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540911#2540911

Note - These are short, and not too difficult to answer. I susspect you have read them, but have chosen not to answer them, yet?


BTW... Is this your profile, on what is mainly a porn site:
http://www.imagefap.com/profile/doogie5_2000

Nothing wrong with that, from a liberal viewpoint...
It's just not very "Conservative". Wink


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Sep 22, 2011, 9:31 AM)


DougMartin


Sep 22, 2011, 10:23 AM
Post #31 of 108 (1474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2011
Posts: 138

Re: [ubu] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

ubu wrote:
rrrADAM wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
I my case, catholic charities offered to help in my time of need and I was grateful for the help.

So, if NOBODY offered to help you, then what? Let's make a reasonable extension to this, and suppose that you, again at 19 years young, had a treatable cancer but no way to pay for treatment yourself, and NOBODY offered to help you... Then what? Should you have been allowed to die?

I look forward to your reply to my direct questions... Note that there are two question marks in the above.

Yes Doug, please do give a direct answer to these questions. If you don't I will have to agree with I_do that you are, indeed, a hypocrite who is full of shit.


rrrADAM and ubu,

Being allowed to die would be an option one could choose, although I do not believe it is one that would not be chosen often! And if it is chosen who determined that this is not a valid option? A question back to you, should the government be allowed to tell you how to handle your medical issues?

What other options exist when you need to pay for a catastrophic medical bill, bankruptcy, extended payments, lowering my standard of living to allow for a traditional payment plan, and others, such as family, friends, employers.

The point I am making is that it is my responsibility to handle it is not yours or your neighbors. Government sponsored or support health care makes it your responsibility. We are the government, what the government does, we as citizens also do. I don't believe anyone should be forced to take responsibility for another persons situation. It allows for those that are irresponsible to continue to be that way as well makes responsible people irresponsible. Do you like the idea of being required to be responsible for your neighbors health care or do you prefer the freedom to choose who you are responsible for?

What our government should do is to make sure we have the freedom to take care of it ourselves though what ever remedy best suits us, not take of it for us!

I hope this answered your questions, and please answer mine as well. Also thank you for the discussion its nice to have one with someone that can be civilized and not ignorant, a rarity on this site.


I_do


Sep 22, 2011, 10:25 AM
Post #32 of 108 (1471 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 2, 2008
Posts: 1232

Re: [rrrADAM] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

rrrADAM wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
traddad wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
Mama taught me never to argue with an idiot and you sir are!

Complete coward.

No just not going to debate a person that can not avoid personal insults, To continue with him would place me on the same level!
This is two replies from you, addressing pettiness, but not my direct questions to you. To be honest, while you are saying you don't want to lower yourself to petty insults, your last two posts have zero content, and are, in fact, just petty insults.

You use the word "debate" above, and that means 'two way', as in "discourse", not just 'one way' my friend.

While direct, I am being respectful.

Please, copy, paste, and answer my questions in regards to your stated position.

Here, they are here:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540899#2540899
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540902#2540902
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540911#2540911

Note - These are short, and not too difficult to answer. I susspect you have read them, but have chosen not to answer them, yet?


BTW... Is this your profile, on what is mainly a porn site:
http://www.imagefap.com/profile/doogie5_2000

Nothing wrong with that, from a liberal viewpoint...
It's just not very "Conservative". Wink

I guess in retrospect my initial rudeness was deserved. This dude is only saying how he is above my petty insults while ignoring direct questions. Far more rude then calling out bullshit in my book.


veganclimber


Sep 22, 2011, 10:38 AM
Post #33 of 108 (1458 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 17, 2005
Posts: 2775

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
ubu wrote:
rrrADAM wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
I my case, catholic charities offered to help in my time of need and I was grateful for the help.

So, if NOBODY offered to help you, then what? Let's make a reasonable extension to this, and suppose that you, again at 19 years young, had a treatable cancer but no way to pay for treatment yourself, and NOBODY offered to help you... Then what? Should you have been allowed to die?

I look forward to your reply to my direct questions... Note that there are two question marks in the above.

Yes Doug, please do give a direct answer to these questions. If you don't I will have to agree with I_do that you are, indeed, a hypocrite who is full of shit.


rrrADAM and ubu,

Being allowed to die would be an option one could choose, although I do not believe it is one that would not be chosen often!

What you don't seem to understand is that, for a lot of people, that is their only option. People who do not get insurance through work often cannot get their own. Insurance companies do not want to insure people they think will get sick. People even get denied for things like asthma. Women have been denied insurance for being raped (seriously). What is your answer to these people?

In reply to:
And if it is chosen who determined that this is not a valid option? A question back to you, should the government be allowed to tell you how to handle your medical issues?

What other options exist when you need to pay for a catastrophic medical bill, bankruptcy,

get sick and go bankrupt. That's a great solution. What does this actually solve, other than destroying somebody's life? Somebody still has to pay for it.

In reply to:
extended payments, lowering my standard of living to allow for a traditional payment plan,

How do you lower your standard of living if you already have trouble just getting by?

In reply to:
and others, such as family, friends, employers.

Not always an option.

In reply to:
The point I am making is that it is my responsibility to handle it is not yours or your neighbors. Government sponsored or support health care makes it your responsibility. We are the government, what the government does, we as citizens also do. I don't believe anyone should be forced to take responsibility for another persons situation. It allows for those that are irresponsible to continue to be that way as well makes responsible people irresponsible. Do you like the idea of being required to be responsible for your neighbors health care or do you prefer the freedom to choose who you are responsible for? What our government should do is to make sure we have the freedom to take care of it ourselves though what ever remedy best suits us, not take of it for us!

Otherwise known as the "die quickly" plan.


Allfred


Sep 22, 2011, 10:39 AM
Post #34 of 108 (1457 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 29, 2011
Posts: 421

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
Do you like the idea of being required to be responsible for your neighbors health care or do you prefer the freedom to choose who you are responsible for?

Are you advocating abolishing private medical insurance too? Do you have medical insurance now?

You do realize your insurance premium goes to pay the medical costs of others, i.e. you are responsible in part for those who have the same insurance company as you.


DougMartin


Sep 22, 2011, 10:53 AM
Post #35 of 108 (1449 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2011
Posts: 138

Re: [rrrADAM] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

rrrADAM wrote:
Doug,

Or, to drive the point home, PLEASE read this story about my son's best friend:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=1822637#1822637

Just the first two posts about him... Then, tell me how all of his care would have been taken care of, if his parents hadn't had insurance, in accordance with your ideas of how it "should be done". Note that NONE of his care was "emergency room" type stuff, up until the end... AND, being a child, he had no input into whether his parents have insurance, or even a job, so he was lucky there... But there are many children who are not as lucky to have parents with insurance, through no fault of their own. Not to mention all the kids who's parents no longer have insurance since they lost their jobs years ago (you do know about the 'jobs' situation, right?), and haven't been able to get another one.


My prayers to Diego's family and to you on the loss of someone that obviously touched your life.

In regards to this conversation how is it relevant to your position on government supported or mandated health care? It seems as if in this case privatized health care handled this in the best way possible, As it is designed to do and is the method I support. In regards to payment for services rendered, there are many organizations that make your example their mission. To help those that can not help themselves. I am just thankful that approach was not needed in this case!

Yes, I am aware of the jobs situation. Obama and his crew could have worked on that instead of health care! If he had, he would have a much better chance of being reelected. I voted for him the first time but its going to be tough to do the same this time!


Allfred


Sep 22, 2011, 10:58 AM
Post #36 of 108 (1447 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 29, 2011
Posts: 421

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
It seems as if in this case privatized health care handled this in the best way possible, As it is designed to do and is the method I support.


What are you a socialist or something? Sending your money to the insurance company for them to decide who best needs it.


DougMartin


Sep 22, 2011, 11:27 AM
Post #37 of 108 (1433 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2011
Posts: 138

Re: [veganclimber] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

Simple reply because I have no idea how you do all that splitting quotes stuff your doing and its getting very long!

You make it seem as if I am in full agreement with our health care position as it currently stands. You also seem to think that "a lot" of people don't have choices when in fact they do. Every one always has an option, there are very few things we as people do involuntarily! They just don't like those options or want to take that option so they let someone else take care of it for them!

Realize you support mandating health care insurance in this country because 16.7% of our population does not have health care insurance, 16.7%. You change the entire system because of it, and your supporting a change that will still leave approx 10% without coverage.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2010pubs/p60-238.pdf

Is your insurance going to change when this is played out? Mine will! Hell, based on my current income I may even qualify for a subsidy paid for by you a taxpayer. As it is now I take home less money from a very rewarding job simply because I have fantastic health insurance which does cover the wife's diabetic supplies. I could still work in a place that I made more money but then again the insurance was not any good! Tough decision to make less money, more medical health security or more money, less health care. So I do a lot of personal exposure to this issue. And what they are trying to do could very well hurt the 83.3% of us that do take care of ourselves and are willing to make the tough decision but that's our government at work!

Now, let me clarify my position; our health care system is broke but letting government handle it is not the solution. They will simply make it worse. History supports this!


Now I have real things to do, work is calling!


Partner rrrADAM


Sep 22, 2011, 11:31 AM
Post #38 of 108 (1430 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17543

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
I hope this answered your questions, and please answer mine as well. Also thank you for the discussion its nice to have one with someone that can be civilized and not ignorant, a rarity on this site.

No, you did not... Not even close... Your answers are nebulous.

The questions are direct, so direct answers are appreciated.

Again, I wrote:
rrrADAM wrote:
Please, copy, paste, and answer my questions in regards to your stated position.

Here, they are here:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540899#2540899
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540902#2540902
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540911#2540911



I see that you know how to use the "quote" option when replying, so click each link, read carefully, quote, then give a direct anser to the question or issue posed. I took the time to construct them in an unambiguous format, and even reposted the links for you to easily address them.

For an example of how to do this, please refer to what I was doing with you, in quoting you before addressing your point/statement... Or, you can look at how others in this threadare doing it in replies to you. That is called discourse.


DougMartin


Sep 22, 2011, 11:34 AM
Post #39 of 108 (1426 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2011
Posts: 138

Re: [Allfred] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

Allfred wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
It seems as if in this case privatized health care handled this in the best way possible, As it is designed to do and is the method I support.


What are you a socialist or something? Sending your money to the insurance company for them to decide who best needs it.

What part of privatized health care is socialist? I pay them, they in turn pay for my required medical expenses. That is what private health insurance does.


ubu


Sep 22, 2011, 11:42 AM
Post #40 of 108 (1418 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 17, 2008
Posts: 1476

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
Every one always has an option, there are very few things we as people do involuntarily! They just don't like those options or want to take that option so they let someone else take care of it for them!

Ah but it feels good to spout the Libertarian lines of freedom and personal responsibility. What a simple world to live in. Every Man is an Island! Live Free or Die Trying! None shall be their brothers' keeper...

Your head is deep in the sand if you believe it true that "Every one always has an option". Do you have any idea what it's like to get insurance when you have a serious pre-existing medical condition? Even for employer-covered plans this is a major challenge. What "choice" do the unemployed have??? Wake the fuck up.

Frankly I find your attitude comical coming from someone who admitted to relying on an external party to cover a moderate health expenditure, rather than just "accepting your choice" and going bankrupt.


Partner rrrADAM


Sep 22, 2011, 11:43 AM
Post #41 of 108 (1417 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17543

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
rrrADAM wrote:
Doug,

Or, to drive the point home, PLEASE read this story about my son's best friend:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=1822637#1822637

Just the first two posts about him... Then, tell me how all of his care would have been taken care of, if his parents hadn't had insurance, in accordance with your ideas of how it "should be done". Note that NONE of his care was "emergency room" type stuff, up until the end... AND, being a child, he had no input into whether his parents have insurance, or even a job, so he was lucky there... But there are many children who are not as lucky to have parents with insurance, through no fault of their own. Not to mention all the kids who's parents no longer have insurance since they lost their jobs years ago (you do know about the 'jobs' situation, right?), and haven't been able to get another one.


My prayers to Diego's family and to you on the loss of someone that obviously touched your life.

In regards to this conversation how is it relevant to your position on government supported or mandated health care? It seems as if in this case privatized health care handled this in the best way possible, As it is designed to do and is the method I support. In regards to payment for services rendered, there are many organizations that make your example their mission. To help those that can not help themselves. I am just thankful that approach was not needed in this case!

Yes, I am aware of the jobs situation. Obama and his crew could have worked on that instead of health care! If he had, he would have a much better chance of being reelected. I voted for him the first time but its going to be tough to do the same this time!


OK... Now, that's how you do it. Good start!

To your question:
In reply to:
In regards to this conversation how is it relevant to your position on government supported or mandated health care?

I was addressing your statement that [paraphrasing] the government should not pay for anything other than emergency health care... Which is why I what I put in bold above... Please review then return...


All that still stands, as you did not address my question... How would all that be taken care of if he had NOT had insurance, or for similar children who's parents have no insurance through no fault of their own? Again, note that the bulk of his care was not "emergency room" type stuff.

In case you are missing my question, I'll rephrase it for you... How would a child who's parents have no insurance get that type of care? Let's even imagine that it is as simple as a susspected melanoma, that once biopsied and diagnosed, is easily treatable if caught early on... All of that is not "emergency room" type stuff, and requires specialists to diagnose and treat, so the kid can most likely live a long and healthy life. If not done, it would grow and matastacise, likely becomeing incurable, and very costly when at the "emergency room" stage.


But you did get what I was asking, as you refused to answer that:
In reply to:
I am just thankful that approach was not needed in this case (Diego)!

Please, I am asking you to describe this approach, instead of looking away, and pretending it isn;t there... Actually addressing it.

Saying there are organizations who do this, without giving specific example is nebulous... Tell me, who would pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars? Is this garanteed that all kids who need it, will get it?


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Sep 22, 2011, 11:56 AM)


Allfred


Sep 22, 2011, 11:44 AM
Post #42 of 108 (1416 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 29, 2011
Posts: 421

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
Allfred wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
It seems as if in this case privatized health care handled this in the best way possible, As it is designed to do and is the method I support.


What are you a socialist or something? Sending your money to the insurance company for them to decide who best needs it.

What part of privatized health care is socialist? I pay them, they in turn pay for my required medical expenses. That is what private health insurance does.

They tax a wide pool of people in order to dole out medical coverage to each according to their need.

Marx is pleased that you don't pay your medical bills out of pocket.

Oh look it's a rate increase!


Partner rrrADAM


Sep 22, 2011, 11:47 AM
Post #43 of 108 (1414 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17543

Re: [ubu] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
Every one always has an option, there are very few things we as people do involuntarily!

No, they ALL do not... Again(!), children do not have an option.

Responsible, previously insured people, who have lost their jobs, and have their houses forclosed, do not have options to get good health insurance... For them or their families.

So, how should people like that get preventative care?


Now I am repeating myself, brutha... PLEASE, take the time to click the links (all 3, not just 1), and directly answer the question raised in it. They are made directly to where I quote a statement from you.


DougMartin


Sep 22, 2011, 11:55 AM
Post #44 of 108 (1404 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2011
Posts: 138

Re: [rrrADAM] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

rrrADAM wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
I hope this answered your questions, and please answer mine as well. Also thank you for the discussion its nice to have one with someone that can be civilized and not ignorant, a rarity on this site.

No, you did not... Not even close... Your answers are nebulous.

The questions are direct, so direct answers are appreciated.


rrrADAM wrote:
Please, copy, paste, and answer my questions in regards to your stated position.

Here, they are here:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540899#2540899
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540902#2540902
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540911#2540911



I see that you know how to use the "quote" option when replying, so click each link, read carefully, quote, then give a direct anser to the question or issue posed. I took the time to construct them in an unambiguous format, and even reposted the links for you to easily address them.

For an example of how to do this, please refer to what I was doing with you, in quoting you before addressing your point/statement... Or, you can look at how others in this threadare doing it in replies to you. That is called discourse.

So, If one fails to recognize a very direct and distinguishable answer the answer is nonexistent or is it that until an answer is one you agree with or can support, it is not an answer. Oh, and I love being nebulous! Its in a social workers DNA!


Partner rrrADAM


Sep 22, 2011, 12:07 PM
Post #45 of 108 (1390 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17543

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
rrrADAM wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
I hope this answered your questions, and please answer mine as well. Also thank you for the discussion its nice to have one with someone that can be civilized and not ignorant, a rarity on this site.

No, you did not... Not even close... Your answers are nebulous.

The questions are direct, so direct answers are appreciated.


rrrADAM wrote:
Please, copy, paste, and answer my questions in regards to your stated position.

Here, they are here:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540899#2540899
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540902#2540902
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540911#2540911



I see that you know how to use the "quote" option when replying, so click each link, read carefully, quote, then give a direct anser to the question or issue posed. I took the time to construct them in an unambiguous format, and even reposted the links for you to easily address them.

For an example of how to do this, please refer to what I was doing with you, in quoting you before addressing your point/statement... Or, you can look at how others in this threadare doing it in replies to you. That is called discourse.

So, If one fails to recognize a very direct and distinguishable answer the answer is nonexistent or is it that until an answer is one you agree with or can support, it is not an answer. Oh, and I love being nebulous! Its in a social workers DNA!

1. I replied to that one prior to reading through the post to see that you did in fact reply to one of them... My bad, I do that often, as I am impatient... I also tend to often edit posts until replied to, as I rarely get it right before I hit submit. I need to work on that.

2. Your later reply did not address or answer my question with anything of substance... It was nebulous, once again. See reply to that one as well.

I am beginning to think you will not directly reply to the tough questions... Incapable of constructing a reasonable argument concerning them, perhaps?


If you value nebulous responses and solutions, and picking and choosing what you will even address, perhaps you should run for the Tea Party Candidate for President... You would be qualified, and fit right in with the rest of 'em. Tongue


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Sep 22, 2011, 12:13 PM)


DougMartin


Sep 22, 2011, 12:16 PM
Post #46 of 108 (1380 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2011
Posts: 138

Re: [rrrADAM] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

rrrADAM wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
rrrADAM wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
I hope this answered your questions, and please answer mine as well. Also thank you for the discussion its nice to have one with someone that can be civilized and not ignorant, a rarity on this site.

No, you did not... Not even close... Your answers are nebulous.

The questions are direct, so direct answers are appreciated.


rrrADAM wrote:
Please, copy, paste, and answer my questions in regards to your stated position.

Here, they are here:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540899#2540899
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540902#2540902
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...post=2540911#2540911



I see that you know how to use the "quote" option when replying, so click each link, read carefully, quote, then give a direct anser to the question or issue posed. I took the time to construct them in an unambiguous format, and even reposted the links for you to easily address them.

For an example of how to do this, please refer to what I was doing with you, in quoting you before addressing your point/statement... Or, you can look at how others in this threadare doing it in replies to you. That is called discourse.

So, If one fails to recognize a very direct and distinguishable answer the answer is nonexistent or is it that until an answer is one you agree with or can support, it is not an answer. Oh, and I love being nebulous! Its in a social workers DNA!

1. I replied to that one prior to reading through the post to see that you did in fact reply to one of them.
2. Your reply did not address or answer my question with anything of substance... It was nebulous, once again.


If you value nebulous responses and solutions, perhaps you should run for the Tea Party Candidate for President...
You would be qualified, and fit right in with the rest. Tongue

Not unless you would volunteer to be my running mate.
We could spend the day arguing nugatory, jejune things that affect neither of us with our new found status as president and vice president! Cool


atg200


Sep 22, 2011, 12:20 PM
Post #47 of 108 (1372 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 4317

Post deleted by atg200 [In reply to]
Report this Post

 


Partner rrrADAM


Sep 22, 2011, 12:26 PM
Post #48 of 108 (1367 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17543

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
ubu wrote:
rrrADAM wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
I my case, catholic charities offered to help in my time of need and I was grateful for the help.

So, if NOBODY offered to help you, then what? Let's make a reasonable extension to this, and suppose that you, again at 19 years young, had a treatable cancer but no way to pay for treatment yourself, and NOBODY offered to help you... Then what? Should you have been allowed to die?

I look forward to your reply to my direct questions... Note that there are two question marks in the above.

Yes Doug, please do give a direct answer to these questions. If you don't I will have to agree with I_do that you are, indeed, a hypocrite who is full of shit.


rrrADAM and ubu,

Being allowed to die would be an option one could choose, although I do not believe it is one that would not be chosen often! And if it is chosen who determined that this is not a valid option?

You are not answering this question... See bold above...

You have this treatable cancer, at 19, an nobody to help you... No parents, family, charitable organization... You cannot go to an emergency room for this, as it is not life threatening, YET. You need expensive specialized care to prevent it from killing you, and likely cure you.

How are you going to get that treatment? Or, should your cancer be allowed to go untreated, until you are suffering, and in need of much more expensive emergency care?

Direct question... A direct (non-nebulous) answer is prefferred.



In reply to:
A question back to you, should the government be allowed to tell you how to handle your medical issues?
No, and they don't... Doctors tell me how to handle my medical issues, whether I pay for them, my insurance company pays for them, or the gobment pays for them.




In reply to:
What other options exist when you need to pay for a catastrophic medical bill, bankruptcy, extended payments, lowering my standard of living to allow for a traditional payment plan, and others, such as family, friends, employers.


Logic fail, as you are assuming, incorrectly that preventative service was rendered... With no insurance, there is none, and, as you say, only "emergency room" care.



In reply to:
The point I am making is that it is my responsibility to handle it is not yours or your neighbors. Government sponsored or support health care makes it your responsibility. We are the government, what the government does, we as citizens also do. I don't believe anyone should be forced to take responsibility for another persons situation. It allows for those that are irresponsible to continue to be that way as well makes responsible people irresponsible. Do you like the idea of being required to be responsible for your neighbors health care or do you prefer the freedom to choose who you are responsible for?
I, and you are already responsible to pay for the "emergency room" stuff, which is WAY more expensive than the preventative care would have been that could have, well, "prevented" it, that's why it's called "preventative care". That's what's not payed for, and why we pay so much now.



In reply to:
What our government should do is to make sure we have the freedom to take care of it ourselves though what ever remedy best suits us, not take of it for us!
And, to the kids who'se parents choose none, or can't afford it? What happens to them?

That's a question... Please, answer and be specific.



See... Copy, paste, direct answer... Now, you try. Wink


DougMartin


Sep 22, 2011, 12:34 PM
Post #49 of 108 (1358 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2011
Posts: 138

Re: [atg200] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

atg200 wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
Now, let me clarify my position; our health care system is broke but letting government handle it is not the solution. They will simply make it worse. History supports this!

No it doesn't - history shows that the US government tends to do large scale projects better than any other entity on earth. Good examples of this are the interstate highway system, moon landing, hubble telescope and space exploration probes, GPS, the Panama Canal, the Manhattan Project, the invention and early development of the internet, the human genome project, etc.

Highways are in great need of repair due to lack of maintenance and mis-management. Hubble telescope broke. The moon landing was just another way the United states showed off. And the internet, since when did the government invent it, oh yeah it was Al Gore! I forgot! The Panama Canal, are you forgetting the fact that we supported overthrowing the Columbia government just to finish what the French envisioned! GPS, developed privately for the military, not by the military!

And now you want them to handle your health care.


ubu


Sep 22, 2011, 12:47 PM
Post #50 of 108 (1348 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 17, 2008
Posts: 1476

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
atg200 wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
Now, let me clarify my position; our health care system is broke but letting government handle it is not the solution. They will simply make it worse. History supports this!

No it doesn't - history shows that the US government tends to do large scale projects better than any other entity on earth. Good examples of this are the interstate highway system, moon landing, hubble telescope and space exploration probes, GPS, the Panama Canal, the Manhattan Project, the invention and early development of the internet, the human genome project, etc.

Highways are in great need of repair due to lack of maintenance and mis-management. Hubble telescope broke. The moon landing was just another way the United states showed off. And the internet, since when did the government invent it, oh yeah it was Al Gore! I forgot! The Panama Canal, are you forgetting the fact that we supported overthrowing the Columbia government just to finish what the French envisioned! GPS, developed privately for the military, not by the military!

And now you want them to handle your health care.

Holy lack of comprehension Batman! Each of your above examples shows the exact opposite of what you seem to think it does.

Highways are in need of repair for lack of funds, not mis-management.

The Hubble telescope performed brilliantly over an exceptionally long (much longer than planned) lifetime.

The moon landing was fundamental to moving many technologies forward. We typically hear about this in terms of things like new materials, but one of the most important developments that would not exist without the moon program is modern control theory, a field that is fundamental to just about everything you now touch on a daily basis.

The internet and GPS exist solely due to government funding. You do understand that the vast majority of "government research and development" is outsourced, right?

And yes, Al Gore was at the core of pushing through the funding that turned the internet into what it is today.

The Panama canal certainly wouldn't have been built without US govt funding!

Any other misconceptions you'd like to try throw out there?


EDIT: so, fuck yes I want government involved in improving the delivery and reducing the costs of health care in the US. I believe this country can do truly great things, and has an opportunity to completely transform modern health care if we could just come together and apply rational thought to solve the single biggest financial and moral issue facing the country today.


(This post was edited by ubu on Sep 22, 2011, 12:50 PM)

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Community : The Soap Box

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook