Forums: Community: The Soap Box:
Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature...
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for The Soap Box

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 Next page Last page  View All


hugepedro


Sep 22, 2011, 12:58 PM
Post #51 of 108 (1456 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 2875

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
atg200 wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
Now, let me clarify my position; our health care system is broke but letting government handle it is not the solution. They will simply make it worse. History supports this!

No it doesn't - history shows that the US government tends to do large scale projects better than any other entity on earth. Good examples of this are the interstate highway system, moon landing, hubble telescope and space exploration probes, GPS, the Panama Canal, the Manhattan Project, the invention and early development of the internet, the human genome project, etc.

Highways are in great need of repair due to lack of maintenance and mis-management. Hubble telescope broke. The moon landing was just another way the United states showed off. And the internet, since when did the government invent it, oh yeah it was Al Gore! I forgot! The Panama Canal, are you forgetting the fact that we supported overthrowing the Columbia government just to finish what the French envisioned! GPS, developed privately for the military, not by the military!

And now you want them to handle your health care.

You do realize, don't you, that just because you can bring up a few problems doesn't make your argument?

Example, there wouldn't even be an interstate highway system if not built by the government, no private entity or entities would construct it. The fact there is need of repair is a result of mostly Republicans not funding those sort of things, not that there is some inherent weakness in government's ability to construct transportation systems.

Nor would there have been a moonshot, the technologies of which you, I, and many private enterprises are benefitting from immensely. I could go on, but I think you get the point.

And I'd appreciate an aswer to my earlier questions if you've got the time.


dr_feelgood


Sep 22, 2011, 1:19 PM
Post #52 of 108 (1445 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 25628

Re: [hugepedro] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

Man, the soapbox hasn't been this heated since the last time enigma went off of her meds.


DougMartin


Sep 22, 2011, 1:27 PM
Post #53 of 108 (1442 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2011
Posts: 138

Re: [hugepedro] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

hugepedro wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
The government has no business in health care and the government is not responsible for anyone's health.

Hey Doug, Iím curious as to why you think government has no business in health care, can you explain that for me?

And a follow-up, what do you think government does have business in?


DougMartin wrote:
we don't need the federal or any other government organization to do it for us all while taking their two cents from the pie!!

Itís interesting that you chose the words ďtwo centsĒ, because when government provides health care it does it with an administrative overhead of about 2%, whereas the insurance industry has a typical overhead of about 18%.

So you prefer paying 18 cents on your dollar rather than 2 cents? Iím cool if you like to pay more, but Iíd prefer that you donít force me to have to pay more as well.

First read the Constitution that will tell you what the government should be involved in and its not much!

Second- Assuming your referring to Medicare overhead. Low administrative cost are not the only factor when comparing actual cost. They are of course one that supports your position but not telling of the true nature of government run health care. There is not even any consistency between two government agencies that both provide some type of health care.

"For example, Medicare pays as much as eight times what other federal agencies pay for the same drugs and medical supplies.[6] The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) recently compared the prices paid by Medicare and the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) health care program for 16 types of medical equipment and supplies, which account for one-quarter of Medicare's equipment and supplies purchases. The evidence showed that Medicare paid an average of more than double what the VA paid for the same items. The largest difference was for saline solution, with Medicare paying $8.26 per liter compared to the $1.02 paid by the VA.[7]"

This was published in 2005, long before the health care issue was addressed! They found that medicare paid double what other have.

Here's a link to it...

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2005/04/The-Top-Ten-Reasons-for-Medicaid-Reform#_ftn7

Yet you would like to see them in charge of your health care!

And man, I hate researching this again! I need to go climb something. I realize I am never going to change anybodies opinion nor are they going to change mine! Government is to big period, and both sides need to stop making it bigger.


ubu


Sep 22, 2011, 1:33 PM
Post #54 of 108 (1439 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 17, 2008
Posts: 1476

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
"For example, Medicare pays as much as eight times what other federal agencies pay for the same drugs and medical supplies.[6] The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) recently compared the prices paid by Medicare and the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) health care program for 16 types of medical equipment and supplies, which account for one-quarter of Medicare's equipment and supplies purchases. The evidence showed that Medicare paid an average of more than double what the VA paid for the same items. The largest difference was for saline solution, with Medicare paying $8.26 per liter compared to the $1.02 paid by the VA.[7]"

This was published in 2005, long before the health care issue was addressed! They found that medicare paid double what other have.

So...you're comparing one government agency...against another government agency...to show what exactly?

DougMartin wrote:
Yet you would like to see them in charge of your health care!

What do you even mean by this, "in charge of your health care"??

DougMartin wrote:
I realize I am never going to change anybodies opinion nor are they going to change mine!

That's where you are wrong. I am perfectly happy to change my opinion about this or any other topic, provided a rational argument that actually makes sense. Unlike your position, which is driven solely by the "government is too big" dogma. Kind of sad, really.


DougMartin


Sep 22, 2011, 1:34 PM
Post #55 of 108 (1438 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2011
Posts: 138

Re: [dr_feelgood] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

dr_feelgood wrote:
Man, the soapbox hasn't been this heated since the last time enigma went off of her meds.

Gives me something to do on a rainy afternoon. Nothing like seeing how many bleeding hearts I can offend! The only other option is work, and that just sucks!


hugepedro


Sep 22, 2011, 1:47 PM
Post #56 of 108 (1424 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 2875

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
First read the Constitution that will tell you what the government should be involved in and its not much!

Iím pretty familiar with the Constitution, and it gives the government power to do lots and lots of things that arenít specifically enumerated therein but have been confirmed by the court over many years.

So let me ask you this. Do you think government should provide an interstate highway system, or an air transportation system, or fire departments? And if so, how are those accounted for in the Constitution?


DougMartin


Sep 22, 2011, 1:47 PM
Post #57 of 108 (1424 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2011
Posts: 138

Re: [ubu] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

"So...you're comparing one government agency...against another government agency...to show what exactly?"


Incompetence and inconsistency in our federal government in regards to the health care programs it currently manages.


"What do you even mean by this, "in charge of your health care"?"

Are you serious! Where have you been the last few years. Quit splitting hairs you know exactly what I am talking about. You sound like Bill Clinton and his "that depends on what the definition of "IS" is"

Now time for dinner and then on to a meeting with other addicts like me! See you all later!


hugepedro


Sep 22, 2011, 1:50 PM
Post #58 of 108 (1423 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 2875

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
"So...you're comparing one government agency...against another government agency...to show what exactly?"


Incompetence and inconsistency in our federal government in regards to the health care programs it currently manages.

So if we can also see difference between private health care providers would you also assess their performance as incompetent and inconsistent?


ubu


Sep 22, 2011, 1:53 PM
Post #59 of 108 (1420 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 17, 2008
Posts: 1476

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
"So...you're comparing one government agency...against another government agency...to show what exactly?"

Incompetence and inconsistency in our federal government in regards to the health care programs it currently manages.

Weak.

DougMartin wrote:
"What do you even mean by this, "in charge of your health care"?"

Are you serious! Where have you been the last few years. Quit splitting hairs you know exactly what I am talking about. You sound like Bill Clinton and his "that depends on what the definition of "IS" is"

Weaker.

Let me try the last one again: what do you mean when you say you don't want the government "in charge of your health care"?

For bonus points, tell me how your answer differs in terms of not wanting an insurance company in charge of your health care.


ubu


Sep 22, 2011, 1:55 PM
Post #60 of 108 (1415 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 17, 2008
Posts: 1476

Re: [hugepedro] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

hugepedro wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
"So...you're comparing one government agency...against another government agency...to show what exactly?"


Incompetence and inconsistency in our federal government in regards to the health care programs it currently manages.

So if we can also see difference between private health care providers would you also assess their performance as incompetent and inconsistent?

Government bad. Not government good. Repeat the mantra.

That's all we're gonna get out of Doug's posts I'm afraid...


carabiner96


Sep 22, 2011, 2:01 PM
Post #61 of 108 (1410 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 12510

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
Man, the soapbox hasn't been this heated since the last time enigma went off of her meds.

Gives me something to do on a rainy afternoon. Nothing like seeing how many bleeding hearts I can offend! The only other option is work, and that just sucks!
I get it now.


DougMartin


Sep 22, 2011, 2:04 PM
Post #62 of 108 (1409 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2011
Posts: 138

Re: [ubu] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

ubu wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
"So...you're comparing one government agency...against another government agency...to show what exactly?"


Incompetence and inconsistency in our federal government in regards to the health care programs it currently manages.

So if we can also see difference between private health care providers would you also assess their performance as incompetent and inconsistent?

Government bad. Not government good. Repeat the mantra.

That's all we're gonna get out of Doug's posts I'm afraid...

And it took you how long to understand this?

We can always talk about how Perry required vaccinations for teenage girls!


ubu


Sep 22, 2011, 2:08 PM
Post #63 of 108 (1397 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 17, 2008
Posts: 1476

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
ubu wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
"So...you're comparing one government agency...against another government agency...to show what exactly?"


Incompetence and inconsistency in our federal government in regards to the health care programs it currently manages.

So if we can also see difference between private health care providers would you also assess their performance as incompetent and inconsistent?

Government bad. Not government good. Repeat the mantra.

That's all we're gonna get out of Doug's posts I'm afraid...

And it took you how long to understand this?

We can always talk about how Perry required vaccinations for teenage girls!

So you're either admitting to being a troll, which I don't believe for a second, or you're taking the coward's way out to avoid having to defend your statements in this thread? Way to go champ. Either way: buh bye.


DougMartin


Sep 22, 2011, 2:10 PM
Post #64 of 108 (1396 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2011
Posts: 138

Re: [hugepedro] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

hugepedro wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
"So...you're comparing one government agency...against another government agency...to show what exactly?"


Incompetence and inconsistency in our federal government in regards to the health care programs it currently manages.

So if we can also see difference between private health care providers would you also assess their performance as incompetent and inconsistent?

If it happened within the same company, then yes I would also say they are incompetent and inconsistent!


DougMartin


Sep 22, 2011, 2:28 PM
Post #65 of 108 (1382 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2011
Posts: 138

Re: [ubu] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

ubu wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
ubu wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
"So...you're comparing one government agency...against another government agency...to show what exactly?"


Incompetence and inconsistency in our federal government in regards to the health care programs it currently manages.

So if we can also see difference between private health care providers would you also assess their performance as incompetent and inconsistent?

Government bad. Not government good. Repeat the mantra.

That's all we're gonna get out of Doug's posts I'm afraid...

And it took you how long to understand this?

We can always talk about how Perry required vaccinations for teenage girls!

So you're either admitting to being a troll, which I don't believe for a second, or you're taking the coward's way out to avoid having to defend your statements in this thread? Way to go champ. Either way: buh bye.

Its got nothing to do with being a troll. its all about keeping government out of our private affairs! Government involved equals Government control! I for one don't want government in control of my life, I can screw it up enough all by myself!

Look at other social reforms such as Social Security- how are they working out? The great new deal has lead to many people being dependent on the government (us) for existence. I often wonder how those that grew old long ago survived without social security. Hummmmm ,That is another interesting question!


atg200


Sep 22, 2011, 2:37 PM
Post #66 of 108 (1376 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 4317

Post deleted by atg200 [In reply to]
Report this Post

 


hugepedro


Sep 22, 2011, 2:49 PM
Post #67 of 108 (1365 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 2875

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
"So...you're comparing one government agency...against another government agency...to show what exactly?"


Incompetence and inconsistency in our federal government in regards to the health care programs it currently manages.

So if we can also see difference between private health care providers would you also assess their performance as incompetent and inconsistent?

If it happened within the same company, then yes I would also say they are incompetent and inconsistent!

Ok well it does happen like that. Also, keep in mind that a single government agency or department is larger than most companies, so comparing "the government" as a single entity to a company is not a very valid comparison.

But aside from that, what I'm trying to get to the bottom of is why you think government shouldn't be doing certain things. Can you answer my previous question about highways, planes, and fire trucks?


tradpuppy


Sep 22, 2011, 3:05 PM
Post #68 of 108 (1356 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 15, 2002
Posts: 722

Re: [hugepedro] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

Is Ron Paul a member of the Tea Party? I can't find any solid evidence to verify that he is.
And Doug, just so you know, these are not "compassionate" liberals at all. They only play at it when it helps their argument. Otherwise, they are nasty and mean spirited. Just go back and explore some of their posts from the past few years. Like the guy who wrote "fuck you" above. He's a reeeaaal nice fella to know, I bet Laugh


Partner rrrADAM


Sep 22, 2011, 3:22 PM
Post #69 of 108 (1348 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17543

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
atg200 wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
Now, let me clarify my position; our health care system is broke but letting government handle it is not the solution. They will simply make it worse. History supports this!

No it doesn't - history shows that the US government tends to do large scale projects better than any other entity on earth. Good examples of this are the interstate highway system, moon landing, hubble telescope and space exploration probes, GPS, the Panama Canal, the Manhattan Project, the invention and early development of the internet, the human genome project, etc.

Highways are in great need of repair due to lack of maintenance and mis-management. Hubble telescope broke. The moon landing was just another way the United states showed off. And the internet, since when did the government invent it, oh yeah it was Al Gore! I forgot! The Panama Canal, are you forgetting the fact that we supported overthrowing the Columbia government just to finish what the French envisioned! GPS, developed privately for the military, not by the military!

And now you want them to handle your health care.

WOW!!!!!! You are clueless...

Please disregard my attempts to get you to answer my questions, as you are incapable of it of forming any well reasoned arguments, as you have nothing to base it on other than a skewed view of reality.

You really are qualified to be a Tea Party Candidate for President.


"The trouble with the world isn't that people know too little, but that they know so much that just ain't so."
~Mark Twain


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Sep 22, 2011, 3:24 PM)


ubu


Sep 22, 2011, 3:22 PM
Post #70 of 108 (1347 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 17, 2008
Posts: 1476

Re: [tradpuppy] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

tradpuppy wrote:
Is Ron Paul a member of the Tea Party? I can't find any solid evidence to verify that he is.
And Doug, just so you know, these are not "compassionate" liberals at all. They only play at it when it helps their argument. Otherwise, they are nasty and mean spirited. Just go back and explore some of their posts from the past few years. Like the guy who wrote "fuck you" above. He's a reeeaaal nice fella to know, I bet Laugh

For the record, I am certainly not a "compassionate liberal" nor am I even a liberal, unless you want to make that judgement by modern Republican standards.

I didn't leave the Republican party, the Republican party left me. Hell, at this point they even left the original purveyor of that quote. When you've ditched the purported idol of your party, what do you have left?


ubu


Sep 22, 2011, 3:25 PM
Post #71 of 108 (1339 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 17, 2008
Posts: 1476

Re: [rrrADAM] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

rrrADAM wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
atg200 wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
Now, let me clarify my position; our health care system is broke but letting government handle it is not the solution. They will simply make it worse. History supports this!

No it doesn't - history shows that the US government tends to do large scale projects better than any other entity on earth. Good examples of this are the interstate highway system, moon landing, hubble telescope and space exploration probes, GPS, the Panama Canal, the Manhattan Project, the invention and early development of the internet, the human genome project, etc.

Highways are in great need of repair due to lack of maintenance and mis-management. Hubble telescope broke. The moon landing was just another way the United states showed off. And the internet, since when did the government invent it, oh yeah it was Al Gore! I forgot! The Panama Canal, are you forgetting the fact that we supported overthrowing the Columbia government just to finish what the French envisioned! GPS, developed privately for the military, not by the military!

And now you want them to handle your health care.

WOW!!!!!! You are clueless...

Please disregard my attempts to get you to answer my questions, as you are incapable of it of forming any well reasoned arguments, as you have nothing to base it on other than a skewed view of reality.

You really are qualified to be a Tea Party Candidate for President.

Like I said, he has but one comment to make: "government it too big", even though he can't articulate what that means or argue why it is so. It's just a meaningless mantra, repeated ad infinitum as part of the exercise in group meditation that has become so popular since Obama came to the Presidency.


Partner rrrADAM


Sep 22, 2011, 3:28 PM
Post #72 of 108 (1334 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17543

Re: [ubu] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

ubu wrote:
It's just a meaningless mantra, repeated ad infinitum as part of the exercise in group meditation that has become so popular since Obama came to the Presidency.

aka Circle Jerk


dr_feelgood


Sep 22, 2011, 3:36 PM
Post #73 of 108 (1326 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 25628

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
ubu wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
DougMartin wrote:
"So...you're comparing one government agency...against another government agency...to show what exactly?"


Incompetence and inconsistency in our federal government in regards to the health care programs it currently manages.

So if we can also see difference between private health care providers would you also assess their performance as incompetent and inconsistent?

Government bad. Not government good. Repeat the mantra.

That's all we're gonna get out of Doug's posts I'm afraid...

And it took you how long to understand this?

We can always talk about how Perry required vaccinations for teenage girls!

Yes please. Let me start off with a few words.

Gardasil would dramatically reduce the risk of cervical cancer. His type seems content to use cervical cancer as a mechanism of slut shaming.


Partner rrrADAM


Sep 22, 2011, 3:40 PM
Post #74 of 108 (1323 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17543

Re: [DougMartin] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

DougMartin wrote:
Now time for dinner and then on to a meeting with other addicts like me! See you all later!

Huh? Are you a friend of Jimmy K's? If so, then you and I have somehting in common. And, if so, I would suggest that you work on 3, 6, and 7, in order to get the self-will and ego out of the way.

Like the Basic text says in Chapter 7, "To improve ourselves takes effort, and since there is no way in the world to graft a new idea on a closed mind, an opening must be made somehow."


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Sep 22, 2011, 3:41 PM)


traddad


Sep 22, 2011, 3:42 PM
Post #75 of 108 (1319 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 14, 2001
Posts: 7129

Re: [rrrADAM] Tea Party accidentally reveals their true nature... [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

rrrADAM wrote:
ubu wrote:
It's just a meaningless mantra, repeated ad infinitum as part of the exercise in group meditation that has become so popular since Obama came to the Presidency.

aka Circle Jerk

Hollow but incendiary catch phrases like "big government" are how you keep an under educated and willfully ignorant rabble roused. It's also how you fool them into voting against their own best interest. This is profitable in the long term and thus well supported by corporations.
Of course the stooges are rarely self observant....so, lets have some more tea!

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Community : The Soap Box

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook