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sandeld
Jan 5, 2012, 5:28 PM
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I'm fairly new here still, mostly lurk and try to learn some things before I post a question or response. I suppose none of that matters, other than I'm not in any of the cliques on here that tend to develop in most message boards on the interwebz, so I'm hoping I can still get at least a couple of responses... I'm only 28, and I have figured out that I chose the wrong path in life. Electrical engineering (for 90% of the companies out there) does not interest me anymore, other than the paycheck (which, currently, is massively below the industry standards, but still better than most). I'm at the point now where I paid off all of my debt except a small student loan, and no longer rely on my paycheck just to make ends meet from month-to-month. I really want to make a career change, and I really want it to be in the outdoor industry, preferably climbing related. Climbing is my true obsession (though, I'm nothing special at it; I just focus on getting better as fast as possible). I know my strengths, I know my skills, and I know my wants. The problem is, getting anyone to take the time to listen to me and prove I could do the job, even if I don't have the formal education. How do I go about meeting the right people? Convincing them to listen to me? I've been trying for the past year with very minimal results. Thanks for reading my sob story! /emo
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Allfred
Jan 5, 2012, 6:20 PM
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If I were you, I'd just realize your job is what will allow you to do the shit you want. You are now an electrical-engineer-factory-worker. You design the electrons by day, like the welder lays down a bead. Then when the punch clock hits you get to go and do the stuff you want. Almost any job in the outdoor career is going to pay you a lot less. Now after a few more years of your electron pushing factory work, you can save up enough money to quit the job, buy a crappy van, and drive to PANAMA! (Or you'll land a wife, have a few kids and keep at the factory job until...) Maybe in the mean time it'd be best to just try to find a different EE job. Maybe with better pay to get you on the path to your van faster.
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sandeld
Jan 5, 2012, 7:32 PM
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I hear ya cluckin' big chicken, and I've tried thinking about it that way, but when you wake up every single day wanting something different, it's impossible to keep that mindset. I've looked at job postings, talked to recruiters, interviewed for EE jobs that I didn't really want, and they all sound like a living nightmare. Right, a road construction worker sounds awesome. But, I'm not going to waste my talents doing something like that. Thanks for the reply, and I look forward to my van! Don't think I need to worry about kids yet. My gf is a climber too, and would probably prefer to live out of a van so we could camp, climb, and mountaineer any time we'd like. Ha!
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Allfred
Jan 5, 2012, 8:24 PM
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Have you been to the new VE in mpls? You got a review for me? How's it compare to St. Paul?
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sandeld
Jan 5, 2012, 8:35 PM
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I live 2 mi from the Minneapolis gym. Needless to say, I spend most my time there nowadays. The routes are twice as high in most of the gym. There are 3 bouldering areas that have a mix of difficulty ratings, unlike StP which has the beginner area and the advanced area (as I call them). The variety of walls is amazing. They're still opening more. Seems like there's not as many routes and that they're rated more difficult than they actually are, though they're getting better at it. During peak hours, you will be waiting for routes. StP is usually dead now. I go there when I really want to climb as many routes as I can in a short amount of time, but with 60' walls, you obviously still get better endurance work at Mpls. Anything else?
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happiegrrrl
Jan 5, 2012, 8:46 PM
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This job listing, http://www.usajobs.gov/...02715000?share=email, for a Climbing Ranger in the Tetons, was posted on a thread on Supertopo recenlty (link:http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1710684/Climbing-Ranger-Job-in-Tetons). That's one position - take a look and see if it is something you might be interested in. The qualifications needed are clearly stated. If you feel you're a match - then apply! If not, and that type of work still seems like what you're looking for.... think about how you will attain those skills. That website lists plenty of jobs for rangers and other outdoors stuff. Take a look around and see what is out there, and how you either match up, or what you need to do to get there. Another job board is http://OutdoorIndustryJobs.com This also includes private sector work, which might be an avenue you would prefer. I don't know nothing about Electrical Engineering, but it might be possible that the education and skills you have may be cross-over skills which would qualify you for other work. For some people, it can be hard to imagine how their learned skills can fit into a seemingly unrelated filed - but....they can.
(This post was edited by happiegrrrl on Jan 5, 2012, 8:48 PM)
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Allfred
Jan 5, 2012, 8:51 PM
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Cool, I got to get there soon. Anyway I'll be snowboarding for the next few weekends. (If they will be able to make some snow after today and tomorrow.)
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sandeld
Jan 5, 2012, 9:17 PM
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Happierrrl, Thanks for the tips and links! I've been on outdoorindustryjobs.com and outdoorindustry.org for quite some time now. I'm mostly interested in the private sector with carryover skills, but am absolutely open to anything that fits! The carryover stuff is where it's hard to get them to take the time to take me seriously. I was a perfect fit for a job with Black Diamond, but based on the time I submitted my info and the time I was rejected, they didn't get past "David Sandel - Electrical Engineer". (No, that's not my heading, but EE is the 1st thing listed after my contact info.) Anyways, thanks again! I'll check out usajobs for sure!
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happiegrrrl
Jan 5, 2012, 10:05 PM
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Do you do any volunteer work in the outdoors - like trail work, or volunteer hikes at a local preserve. I think one could even., with some clever writing, portray doing first ascents as a community service... When applying for jobs in outdoors industry, place "Volunteer" experience ahead of "Work" on the resume. Think to yourself "Quelle Horreur - what WILL they think?" What they will think, unless they are stuck in a rut, is that you are a smart person who gives back to the community, knows their formal education is creating an obstacle to their career changing efforts and that they have suddenly developed an intrique to see just who this maverick personality is; this one who DARES believe volunteering at the local climbing area is more important that what they did for money in their workaday world. Of course - this will only be well pulled off if your resume is impeccably written from a professional standpoint. If you do not know - beyond the shadow of a doubt - that your resume could get you an in at the top place in your (EE) field, then get it there before attempting to boldy go where no office drone has gone before, resume-wise.
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Gmburns2000
Jan 6, 2012, 12:55 PM
Post #10 of 35
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sandeld wrote: I'm fairly new here still, mostly lurk and try to learn some things before I post a question or response. I suppose none of that matters, other than I'm not in any of the cliques on here that tend to develop in most message boards on the interwebz, so I'm hoping I can still get at least a couple of responses... I'm only 28, and I have figured out that I chose the wrong path in life. Electrical engineering (for 90% of the companies out there) does not interest me anymore, other than the paycheck (which, currently, is massively below the industry standards, but still better than most). I'm at the point now where I paid off all of my debt except a small student loan, and no longer rely on my paycheck just to make ends meet from month-to-month. I really want to make a career change, and I really want it to be in the outdoor industry, preferably climbing related. Climbing is my true obsession (though, I'm nothing special at it; I just focus on getting better as fast as possible). I know my strengths, I know my skills, and I know my wants. The problem is, getting anyone to take the time to listen to me and prove I could do the job, even if I don't have the formal education. How do I go about meeting the right people? Convincing them to listen to me? I've been trying for the past year with very minimal results. Thanks for reading my sob story! /emo I was in a position similar to yours a few years ago (though I still have mounds of student loan debt). I saved up as much money as I could for about 18 months and then left my job. I moved to a place where it was cheaper to live (Chile) and eventually moved on to Brasil. I'm now teaching English primarily for income and doing damn well at it. And, oh yeah, I'm WAY happier than I have ever been. The point: if you can stick it out for another year or so, there are plenty of opportunities to throw yourself into the wind to see where you end up. So far it's worked for me, albeit not without some complications (nothing is perfect).
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meatbomz
Jan 6, 2012, 5:24 PM
Post #11 of 35
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sandeld wrote: I'm fairly new here still, mostly lurk and try to learn some things before I post a question or response. I suppose none of that matters, other than I'm not in any of the cliques on here that tend to develop in most message boards on the interwebz, so I'm hoping I can still get at least a couple of responses... I'm only 28, and I have figured out that I chose the wrong path in life. Electrical engineering (for 90% of the companies out there) does not interest me anymore, other than the paycheck (which, currently, is massively below the industry standards, but still better than most). I'm at the point now where I paid off all of my debt except a small student loan, and no longer rely on my paycheck just to make ends meet from month-to-month. I really want to make a career change, and I really want it to be in the outdoor industry, preferably climbing related. Climbing is my true obsession (though, I'm nothing special at it; I just focus on getting better as fast as possible). I know my strengths, I know my skills, and I know my wants. The problem is, getting anyone to take the time to listen to me and prove I could do the job, even if I don't have the formal education. How do I go about meeting the right people? Convincing them to listen to me? I've been trying for the past year with very minimal results. Thanks for reading my sob story! /emo There are a bunch of guys who lead the semi-nomadic life of being riggers in Vegas when the SW is in an guides in the Valley when it isn't. I would think as an EE you would be uniquely qualified to figure out something that combined EE and climbing skills. I have climbing friends who are window washers, riggers, arborists, etc. I saw a video recently linked to from somewhere about a climber who worked on radio towers or something for his day job. Surely you can come up with something where the combination of EE and love of climbing would offer you the ability to make a living while still providing the flexibility to go on climbing road trips.
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granite_grrl
Jan 11, 2012, 3:18 AM
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sandeld wrote: I hear ya cluckin' big chicken, and I've tried thinking about it that way, but when you wake up every single day wanting something different, it's impossible to keep that mindset. I've looked at job postings, talked to recruiters, interviewed for EE jobs that I didn't really want, and they all sound like a living nightmare. Right, a road construction worker sounds awesome. But, I'm not going to waste my talents doing something like that. Thanks for the reply, and I look forward to my van! Don't think I need to worry about kids yet. My gf is a climber too, and would probably prefer to live out of a van so we could camp, climb, and mountaineer any time we'd like. Ha! Oh yeah, I'm sure it would be a blast! What I have learned in my years as an EE working at quite a few different jobs over the past few years because of the bumpy economy is that the grass is always greener. I really don't think that I'm going to be truly happy in an job. What I want to do is NOT work at all and just travel and climb. You know what's going to get me there? A well paying EE job and being smart with my cash.
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sandeld
Jan 11, 2012, 4:17 PM
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When I look back to my highschool and college summer jobs, I enjoyed myself much more building houses and pouring concrete. So, road construction does sound fun. But again, a waste of talent. Also, I don't know what you make as an EE, but I sure as hell am not making enough to one day quit and travel.
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granite_grrl
Jan 11, 2012, 10:23 PM
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sandeld wrote: When I look back to my highschool and college summer jobs, I enjoyed myself much more building houses and pouring concrete. So, road construction does sound fun. But again, a waste of talent. Also, I don't know what you make as an EE, but I sure as hell am not making enough to one day quit and travel. Yes, you are making enough money, but like 90% of the population out there you don't know how to save your money.
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sandeld
Jan 11, 2012, 10:33 PM
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granite_grrl wrote: Yes, you are making enough money, but like 90% of the population out there you don't know how to save your money. Weird, I don't remember showing you my finances so I'm not sure how you would have any right to say that.
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granite_grrl
Jan 11, 2012, 10:47 PM
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sandeld wrote: granite_grrl wrote: Yes, you are making enough money, but like 90% of the population out there you don't know how to save your money. Weird, I don't remember showing you my finances so I'm not sure how you would have any right to say that. I was just going by the amount of time I've been laid off in the past three years and you've held a full time job. I was collecting unemployment and probably still comming out ahead of you.
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sandeld
Jan 11, 2012, 10:55 PM
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You're making some hugely illogical assumptions. Especially since I've given a brief snapshot being debt-free sans a small student loan, but go on with your bad self. I must be more underpaid than previously thought if I can't keep up with unemployment.
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caughtinside
Jan 11, 2012, 11:53 PM
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Not that illogical. You say you can't afford to quit and travel. Ergo... you either have no savings or you don't know how to travel on the cheap. But you are debt free and employed for the moment. Use this time to bank cash and figure it out, and maybe also explore a career change.
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sandeld
Jan 12, 2012, 3:11 PM
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caughtinside wrote: Use this time to bank cash and figure it out, and maybe also explore a career change. Ha! Thanks! Did you read the title of this post or my original post?
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caughtinside
Jan 12, 2012, 5:14 PM
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sandeld wrote: caughtinside wrote: Use this time to bank cash and figure it out, and maybe also explore a career change. Ha! Thanks! Did you read the title of this post or my original post? I can't remember... I made the mistake of clicking on the link you have in your signature and I'm sorry to say I was overwhelmed by the douchiness. Maybe you should just stick to the weight room with the rest of the meatheads?
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sandeld
Jan 12, 2012, 5:19 PM
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Why?
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Allfred
Jan 12, 2012, 6:09 PM
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sandeld wrote: But, I'm not going to waste my talents doing something like that.
sandeld wrote: But again, a waste of talent. Whose opinion are you trying to live up to? Sounds to me like you're scared to do something that you might like because you're afraid of what somebody might think.
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sandeld
Jan 12, 2012, 6:20 PM
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You know, like Christopher Langan, but with a lower IQ. :-p
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carabiner96
Jan 13, 2012, 2:24 AM
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caughtinside wrote: sandeld wrote: caughtinside wrote: Use this time to bank cash and figure it out, and maybe also explore a career change. Ha! Thanks! Did you read the title of this post or my original post? I can't remember... I made the mistake of clicking on the link you have in your signature and I'm sorry to say I was overwhelmed by the douchiness. Maybe you should just stick to the weight room with the rest of the meatheads? Yuck, I would never have clicked on that link unless you had said that. Give me a minute to clean up the vomit...
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macherry
Jan 13, 2012, 2:26 AM
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caughtinside wrote: sandeld wrote: caughtinside wrote: Use this time to bank cash and figure it out, and maybe also explore a career change. Ha! Thanks! Did you read the title of this post or my original post? I can't remember... I made the mistake of clicking on the link you have in your signature and I'm sorry to say I was overwhelmed by the douchiness. Maybe you should just stick to the weight room with the rest of the meatheads? NO EXCUSES NO BULLSHIT!!!
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sandeld
Jan 13, 2012, 4:55 PM
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Have to pander to the target audience, ya know?
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calvo
Jan 15, 2012, 6:31 AM
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You could spend some time working for a conservation corp. It is minimum wage, and really tests you physically, mentally, and spiritually. I've spent the past 2 summers working for a youth conservation corp in Vermont, and gaining experience so that I have that option to work as a conservation corp leader if I need some time spent in the woods. I'm a freshmen at Boston University, and although working in a lab may be what I pursue for a 'career'.. I know spending time with this conservation corp will give me the option to pursue that type of work as well after I graduate. Even though it is hard ... and a questionable choice for a competent individual, I have found it immensely rewarding. Also I believe the networking I am able to do here will help me land outdoor positions at other organizations. If any of you guys have more experience in this line of work than me, feel free to bash/input information on it, otherwise I would trying googling Conservation Corps .. they have them all over the country, and they're a chance to make some money while learning how to live in the backwoods. **EDIT: Ameri-corps is like the larger entity of which things like Conservation Corps and Peace Corps are a part of. They also have internships and stewardships around the country. So like although I have no experience with it, looking at Americorps positions might be more your things if Conservation Corp specifically isn't your taste.
(This post was edited by calvo on Jan 15, 2012, 6:34 AM)
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guangzhou
Jan 18, 2012, 12:58 PM
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carabiner96 wrote: caughtinside wrote: sandeld wrote: caughtinside wrote: Use this time to bank cash and figure it out, and maybe also explore a career change. Ha! Thanks! Did you read the title of this post or my original post? I can't remember... I made the mistake of clicking on the link you have in your signature and I'm sorry to say I was overwhelmed by the douchiness. Maybe you should just stick to the weight room with the rest of the meatheads? Yuck, I would never have clicked on that link unless you had said that. Give me a minute to clean up the vomit... Wow, I wasn't going to click either, but you two convinced me. The link seems to live up to the post he has here so far.
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petsfed
Jan 20, 2012, 5:39 AM
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I'm trying to figure out what you want to do that's climbing related. I can tell you right off the bat that you're WAAAAY too attached to your own self image to have much of a future as a teacher or a guide. Don't get me wrong, you have to be pretty egotistical to enjoy being a teacher (that is, to honestly believe that people will benefit from what you tell them), but conversely, everybody's a critic. Either don't take internet digs so personally, or look elsewhere. If you're hoping to build climbing gear, your options are to either work for minimum wage (or near enough to it, manufacturing in the US is pretty much impossible to do sustainably), or go back to school and get an MS or PhD in mechanical engineering, general materials science, or metallurgy in particular and design the things. If you're hoping to test climbing gear, I take it that it hasn't occurred to you that that's one of the perks of doing something else for the gear company, like designing or building the gear, or answering phones or something. If you want to sell the gear, there's a tricky balance between confident and too confident, and I get the strong impression based on how you've presented yourself here that you're pretty strongly in the latter category. You've presented your case in a way that tries to avoid painting you in a negative light, but in so doing strips all of the details that would allow us to provide any sort of meaningful advice. I've also been casually looking for EE jobs, and the sorts I'd be interested in are in Texas and Oregon (that is, in semiconductor manufacturing), neither of which really appeals to me as a climber. However, I've also cultivated some skill as a climbing instructor, and I have a lot of experience teaching in general. Tell us what about EE you don't like, and what sort of things you do have experience in, other than pouring concrete, and maybe we can help you. By the way, if you had so much "talent", you wouldn't be struggling to find a job you were happy with, if for no other reason than because any position you feel you have the "talent" for is one that's going to take 5-10 years of shit jobs in your chosen field to get to.
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damienclimber
Jan 20, 2012, 11:10 PM
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dr_feelgood
Jan 21, 2012, 1:59 AM
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damienclimber wrote: sandeld wrote: Have to pander to the target audience, ya know? Hey. your Mom spent alot of money for law school ! Couldn't you just work on finding a way to put together, ( the 20+ alter personalities into one Super-Dave power?) You could be the next hot sensation -climbing,happy and caught-outside ! I thought he was an engineer...
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dan2see
Jan 21, 2012, 6:42 AM
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This post is just one example of another way to work in the mountains... I used to work as an Electronics Technician on jet fighters. Then I migrated to freelance software developer. But I love Nature and the outdoors, especially in the mountains. I have a lot of fun exploring and learning. I scramble with friends, and climb with the Alpine Club. I take a lot of snapshots. So I'm starting to do this: Fine Art America: Daniel Cohen This picture and this painting Too soon to expect sales, but I must keep working at this, while I do data-base stuff downtown. My friends tell me to keep trying, someday I'll be successful. Well they aren't buying my stuff, but I don't care -- it's what I want to do. The moral of my post is: Don't fret so much about how you don't like where you are. Keep focused on where you want to be. In school I learned: Follow your heart. The money will come later. It's true!
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damienclimber
Jan 27, 2012, 12:47 AM
Post #33 of 35
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dan2see wrote: This post is just one example of another way to work in the mountains... I used to work as an Electronics Technician on jet fighters. Then I migrated to freelance software developer. But I love Nature and the outdoors, especially in the mountains. I have a lot of fun exploring and learning. I scramble with friends, and climb with the Alpine Club. I take a lot of snapshots. So I'm starting to do this: Fine Art America: Daniel Cohen This picture [image]http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-small/twilight-peak-spring-morning-daniel-cohen.jpg[/image] and this painting [image]http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-small/priddis-pond-1-daniel-cohen.jpg[/image] Too soon to expect sales, but I must keep working at this, while I do data-base stuff downtown. My friends tell me to keep trying, someday I'll be successful. Well they aren't buying my stuff, but I don't care -- it's what I want to do. The moral of my post is: Don't fret so much about how you don't like where you are. Keep focused on where you want to be. In school I learned: Follow your heart. The money will come later. It's true! Thank you for posting your artwork and photos. I wish you the best with your endeavors.
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damienclimber
Jan 27, 2012, 12:52 AM
Post #34 of 35
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calvo wrote: You could spend some time working for a conservation corp. It is minimum wage, and really tests you physically, mentally, and spiritually. I've spent the past 2 summers working for a youth conservation corp in Vermont, and gaining experience so that I have that option to work as a conservation corp leader if I need some time spent in the woods. I'm a freshmen at Boston University, and although working in a lab may be what I pursue for a 'career'.. I know spending time with this conservation corp will give me the option to pursue that type of work as well after I graduate. Even though it is hard ... and a questionable choice for a competent individual, I have found it immensely rewarding. Also I believe the networking I am able to do here will help me land outdoor positions at other organizations. If any of you guys have more experience in this line of work than me, feel free to bash/input information on it, otherwise I would trying googling Conservation Corps .. they have them all over the country, and they're a chance to make some money while learning how to live in the backwoods. **EDIT: Ameri-corps is like the larger entity of which things like Conservation Corps and Peace Corps are a part of. They also have internships and stewardships around the country. So like although I have no experience with it, looking at Americorps positions might be more your things if Conservation Corp specifically isn't your taste. Is your user name an anagram for vocal? Did you work for this Conservation Corp/Peace Corps?
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calvo
Jan 27, 2012, 5:22 AM
Post #35 of 35
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Nope I spent the past 2 summer working for VYCC, and I shall be continuing to next summer
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