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ab2reza1360
Jan 13, 2012, 3:56 PM
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Hi all, I'm new in this forum and really happy because of some responsible members In these days I searched a lot about cordless hammer but i'm confused and can't select one of them. I'm a rock climber and need a hammer to provide all my needs. please introduce some models for me(one of the best with low price) you can check this page too: http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/industry-news.asp?sectionID=1489&articleID=536620&artnum=6 All advice and info will be much appreciated. PS: bear in your mind I'm not a professional climber and don't want use this tool all times around a year.
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potreroed
Jan 13, 2012, 4:25 PM
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A lot depends on what you plan to do with this drill. Replace a few anchors? Bolt new routes ground up? Top down? Hilti and Bosch are the best but Panasonic now has a lightweight and inexpensive drill that is getting rave reviews both in Europe and the USA.
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USnavy
Jan 15, 2012, 2:00 AM
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I own the 11536 VSR and its a great drill. I have used it to drill 3/4" holes in 15,000 psi basalt before without issue. But as others have said, it depends on what you use it for.
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guangzhou
Jan 15, 2012, 3:10 AM
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I own a 36 Volt Bosh and love it. Put in about 3000 bolts so far. Previously, my Bosh 24 Volt helped me bolt roughly 1000 new routes and to replace some anchors. Guessing 8000 to 10000 BOlts.
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jmichael
Jan 15, 2012, 5:34 AM
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I've never drilled rock, but my experience drilling lots of concrete and my experience with some of Dewalt's new stuff I'd seriously take a look into this one. If I was ever in a situation where I could possibly drop a cordless tool, I'd want it to be a dewalt, they take a beating better than anything else I've used. http://www.dewalt.com/tools/cordless-concrete-sds-rotary-hammers-dch213l2.aspx
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tscampbell
Jan 15, 2012, 7:32 AM
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milwaukee v28 would be my best suggestion. i used one as a contractor for several years and it was simply more powerful and longer lasting than many corded drills i've owned. even seen it toss a grown man through a wall when a hole saw snagged on a rough spot. i haven't used it for bolting, but consumer reports said it was dangerous after a 2 day torture test of running full throttle and it caught on fire. enough for me!
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Greggle
Jan 15, 2012, 9:33 AM
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ab2reza1360 wrote: Hi all, I'm new in this forum and really happy because of some responsible members In these days I searched a lot about cordless hammer but i'm confused and can't select one of them. I'm a rock climber and need a hammer to provide all my needs. please introduce some models for me(one of the best with low price) you can check this page too: http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/industry-news.asp?sectionID=1489&articleID=536620&artnum=6 All advice and info will be much appreciated. PS: bear in your mind I'm not a professional climber and don't want use this tool all times around a year. Spam...
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coastal_climber
Jan 16, 2012, 12:44 AM
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NOPE! Hilti Makita bosch milwalkee dewalt/black and decker
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coastal_climber
Jan 16, 2012, 12:45 AM
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bring on the arguments :D
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binrat
Jan 16, 2012, 4:39 PM
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I had a DeWalt 18V for a few years. Worked great on limestone. http://www.dewalt.com/tools/cordless-concrete-sds-rotary-hammers-dc212ka.aspx
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JimTitt
Jan 16, 2012, 7:11 PM
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Well, yes and no! Iīd dump Hilti off your list, probably the best drilling action but the price and the shit batteries mean most guys leave them in the cellar in the end or donīt buy in the first place. Makita are good, weīve 2 of these. A big and a small. Iīd buy again. Bosch-next best. Metabo- slowest thing ever, Iīve relegated mine to home duties. DeWalt- Good but generally not as good a deal as Makita. Panasonic- Well rated by those who own them but limited marketing in Europe. Milwaukee-no idea, thatīs somewhere in the States isnt it?
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coastal_climber
Jan 17, 2012, 2:02 PM
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JimTitt wrote: Milwaukee-no idea, thatīs somewhere in the States isnt it? And Canada. Haven't really made a significant dent in the market tho....
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mattm
Jan 17, 2012, 6:15 PM
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Pretty sure the OP is spamming the site BUT... I've had success with the smaller Bosch: http://www.cpotools.com/...d-demolition-hammers Not quite as fast as it's big brother but very manageable on the rock. For BIG projects and hard rock I might look at the bigger one...
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majid_sabet
Jan 17, 2012, 7:08 PM
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I have a ryobi gasoline operated hammer drill that I like a lot, its about 11 lbs but its the most powerful drill out there. Very hard to find item but defiantly a keeper and its great for drilling in remote area where recharging and lack of power is an issue.
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MomentSurf
Jan 20, 2012, 12:39 PM
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Hitachi!!! Under rated!! I never drilled rock, but the 18v Li-Ion lasts forever and goes through concrete/cement with ease! I've had the same drills/saws-all/impact driver/jig saw/circular saw for years now with no problems. They can definitely take a beating, thats for sure!
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shockabuku
Jan 20, 2012, 5:33 PM
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As a general question for anyone with experience to answer: How does drilling concrete or brick compare to drilling 1. limestone 2. granite 3. basalt 4. sandstone 5. quartzite 6. other rock that you specify?
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coastal_climber
Jan 21, 2012, 12:58 AM
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shockabuku wrote: As a general question for anyone with experience to answer: How does drilling concrete or brick compare to drilling 1. limestone 2. granite 3. basalt 4. sandstone 5. quartzite 6. other rock that you specify? I'd say sandstone and limestone are the closest to brick/cement. Although cement gets stronger with age, its kinda hard to say
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USnavy
Jan 21, 2012, 9:03 AM
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shockabuku wrote: As a general question for anyone with experience to answer: How does drilling concrete or brick compare to drilling 1. limestone 2. granite 3. basalt 4. sandstone 5. quartzite 6. other rock that you specify? Generally speaking, the greater the compressive strength of the rock, the harder its going to be to drill. They are probably other factors, but compressive strength is one of the key factors. The compressive strength of a specific type of rock often varies greatly from one place to another. We have basalt here that breaks in your hand, and we have basalt that has a compressive strength over 15kpsi. Eric Horst tells me he goes through a drill bit per route when he drills in the infamous hard NRG sandstone. In Red Rocks I wouldent be surprised if you got 200+ holes with one bit, the rock there is so soft. That goes to show that although both the NRG and Red Rocks have sandstone, the stone varies greatly between the two areas.
(This post was edited by USnavy on Jan 21, 2012, 9:12 AM)
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gimmeslack
Jan 21, 2012, 1:20 PM
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I'd go for pneumatic. Much more reliable tools than cordless. Then you can put maestri's back up. I believe they didn't clean the compressor?
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guangzhou
Jan 21, 2012, 1:20 PM
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shockabuku wrote: As a general question for anyone with experience to answer: How does drilling concrete or brick compare to drilling 1. limestone 2. granite 3. basalt 4. sandstone 5. quartzite 6. other rock that you specify? Hard to compare, while I find Granite to be pretty comparable across the board, it's not true of other rock type. Limestone and sandstone vary greatly for sure. Basalt has pretty wide range too.
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shockabuku
Jan 21, 2012, 2:18 PM
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Thanks. I asked because there were statements about drill performance made above based on use in the construction industry and I was curious how valid they might or might not be.
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USnavy
Jan 21, 2012, 3:26 PM
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shockabuku wrote: Thanks. I asked because there were statements about drill performance made above based on use in the construction industry and I was curious how valid they might or might not be. I think they are fairly linear. If one drill rips through concrete faster than another, its likely to rip through stone faster as well.
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JimTitt
Jan 21, 2012, 10:30 PM
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shockabuku wrote: As a general question for anyone with experience to answer: How does drilling concrete or brick compare to drilling 1. limestone 2. granite 3. basalt 4. sandstone 5. quartzite 6. other rock that you specify? Like the others said, it hard to give general rule, limestone (which I drill mostly) varies from marble which is probably one of the worst to drill especially for bit wear to the soft orange stuff which is a pleasure and that can be on the same route. Granite (which I drill a fair bit for test blocks) is generally hardish but shatters well under the bit, the close grained granites are harder to drill though than the coarse ones I reckon. New bricks are easy, old wet bricks are hard as the dust is really sticky and you need more drill power and so on. If a drill is a good performer in hard concrete then it should be good in rock, brick performance I wouldnīt really rely on as a judgement unless you are using engineering bricks. Jim
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ab2reza1360
Feb 6, 2012, 6:42 PM
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Thanks all You are great guys:)
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corona
Jan 9, 2014, 12:49 PM
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There is some major misinformation in a few of the replies on here that I feel moved to clear up. I've been burned with bad drill purchases in the past going on ill-informed opinions, and these things are expensive. 1) Working well in the construction industry does not mean it works well on rock. If you haven't bolted routes before, please keep your opinion to yourself. 2) Rock type makes a huge difference in what is an acceptable drill. Just because an 18v DeWalt works fine in Moab's desert sandstone (it does) doesn't mean it works well in Ten Sleep dolomite (it doesn't.) Since we don't know the rock type that the OP intends to drill in, I would hesitate to recommend anything other less than 24v, preferrably 36v. Other considerations: Remote location: petrol/gasoline powered preferred over battery (unless you have a means of charging) Really dense rock, low angle: petrol over battery Steep, soft rock: (lightweight) battery over petrol remote Multipitch: petrol or drills that can be juryrigged for an external, hanging battery pack Durability: Bosch 24v/36v drills and petrol drills are reputed to be quite durable The workhorses of bolters around the world are the Bosch 24v and especially 36v drills. Some people use Hiltis, and I've heard not complaints about efficacy or durability. The Panasonics also get good reviews in Europe. Good batteries are important. Don't buy a drill with less than 24v. Petrol drills are great, but are exceedingly heavy. I wouldn't deviate much from these drills here, as everyone I know that has has gotten burnt.
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majid_sabet
Jan 10, 2014, 11:56 AM
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I own several cordless and almost every model petrol SDS drill in the market and the statement about gasoline drill been too heavy is not so true. The ryobi ER160 which is my favorite is about 13 lbs and when you compare it to most cordless drill,the weight is not that off when you add the charger and few extra battery to cordless drill et. IMO all electric drills are great for bolting short routes where you have access to recharge or replacing batteries with fresh one however, for all remote areas especially deep expedition style bolting where charging is out of option, the gasoline drills are superior to all other type of drills due to fact that for 12 oz of fuel, you can drill almost every type of rock (assuming your bits allow you). The disadvantage of gasoline drill are the cost and finding a good working one .
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roninthorne
Jan 10, 2014, 3:14 PM
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Not to mention the need to tote gasoline and your nylon gear at the same time. I prefer to keep those two as far apart as possible. I used the gas-powered Bosch bulldog for years, and loved it, but always had someone else carry the fuel. Not a prob is you have a partner to do so, but solo bolters should think that one through. The Hilti TE-10A was a great drill, but in the end the batteries were, as pointed out before, crap. Now that one is a vanished species (I think) and I've gone over to the Bosch Litheon. As to the contention that gas is better than bolts for continued production, I purchased the deal that came with two batteries and a charger. I typically get 12-16 3/8" x 3" holes per battery charge in desert dacite and rhyolite, 10-12 in limestone, and 6-8 in the armor plate quartzite we find across this part of the east.
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marc801
Jan 10, 2014, 4:25 PM
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roninthorne wrote: Not to mention the need to tote gasoline and your nylon gear at the same time. I prefer to keep those two as far apart as possible. I used the gas-powered Bosch bulldog for years, and loved it, but always had someone else carry the fuel. Not a prob is you have a partner to do so, but solo bolters should think that one through. Gasoline has no effect on nylon. Yes, there's the aroma and the merciless attraction of dirt, but it doesn't damage nylon.
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roninthorne
Jan 10, 2014, 5:19 PM
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marc801 wrote: Gasoline has no effect on nylon. Yes, there's the aroma and the merciless attraction of dirt, but it doesn't damage nylon. Thanks... wasn't sure that question had been settled once and for all. But aside from those two affects mentioned above, neither of which seems desirable, what about when it catches fire because you sparked up too close to the aforementioned fumes? Not just trying to find a way to redeem my remark, just asking. It also occurs to me that my battery operated drill isn't creating those greenhouse gases so many folks seem vitally concerned about these days, nor does anyone have to hear the deep honking roar of a gas-powered motor. No such thing as a solar-powered refinery, yet, as far as I know. Just two more reasons I prefer battery to gas.
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kennoyce
Jan 10, 2014, 5:41 PM
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[quote "roninthorneIt also occurs to me that my battery operated drill isn't creating those greenhouse gases so many folks seem vitally concerned about these days, nor does anyone have to hear the deep honking roar of a gas-powered motor. No such thing as a solar-powered refinery, yet, as far as I know. Now that's funny, where do you think that electricity comes from when you charge the battery for your drill?
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roninthorne
Jan 10, 2014, 6:16 PM
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LOL... the same place the electricity for you posting online, I suppose. I live in WV, so I have just a bit of insight as to how electricity is generated, and what it costs in environmental terms. Still pretty sure the efficiency of an outlet as opposed to that of a gas-powered drill motor is a much higher return for the fuel used... specially since I don't live thousands of miles away from the generation point. Mine is actually charged with a solar array, since you ask. Oh, I'm sorry, is that your triumphant making-of-a-point going down in flames over there?
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JimTitt
Jan 10, 2014, 7:28 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: I own several cordless and almost every model petrol SDS drill in the market and the statement about gasoline drill been too heavy is not so true. The ryobi ER160 which is my favorite is about 13 lbs and when you compare it to most cordless drill,the weight is not that off when you add the charger and few extra battery to cordless drill et. IMO all electric drills are great for bolting short routes where you have access to recharge or replacing batteries with fresh one however, for all remote areas especially deep expedition style bolting where charging is out of option, the gasoline drills are superior to all other type of drills due to fact that for 12 oz of fuel, you can drill almost every type of rock (assuming your bits allow you). The disadvantage of gasoline drill are the cost and finding a good working one . I keep thinking of getting a gas-powered drill (I use to borrow a Pinjar a few years back) and this one looks to be a step forwards with Honda 4 stroke power and quality http://www.klettersteigbau-hzi.at/Benzinbohrmaschine.html The big hassle is I often fly and gas powered machinery on planes doesnīt seem to be too popular! Nowadays I just take 5 batteries which drills more holes than I can cope with in a day.
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majid_sabet
Jan 11, 2014, 6:39 AM
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I have one china model SDS and they are cheap. I picked off ebay new for $200 and used a few times. very powerful. its a copy of hilti model I have but used hilti goes for about $800. ryobi er-160 is really unique and easy to work with and my #1 choice. this the link to Chinese ones http://hotool.en.made-in-china.com/...ill-HT-ZQC-26A-.html
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jan 11, 2014, 6:40 AM)
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satch
Jan 14, 2014, 2:20 AM
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I've had 4 drills and the 36 volt Bosch hammer is by far the best for extensive bolting. cpooutlets.com has them as reconditioned from time to time. I got one, it's fast in hard sandstone and it has been great for 3 years. Another way you can save $ is with a drill bit sharpener. I use the Drill Doctor and can reuse each bit once.
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billcoe_
Jan 15, 2014, 2:31 AM
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JimTitt wrote: .........The big hassle is I often fly and gas powered machinery on planes doesnīt seem to be too popular! Nowadays I just take 5 batteries which drills more holes than I can cope with in a day. Heads up Jim. Be aware that out military has had some explosions on airplanes of the newer lithium batteries. The US military are mandating the older batteries like the Nimh (Nickel Metal Hydride) for anything like tools that might go airborne. Some private companies have seen this play out and it could be that moving a Lithium (or "Lithion" as Bosch wants to call it for trademark reasons) on an airplane through US airspace may be very difficult coming up soon. UPS currently won't carry one to Hawaii for example where they only have air service. Private carries may be next. Thought you'd want to know to keep an eye on it.
(This post was edited by billcoe_ on Jan 15, 2014, 2:34 AM)
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JimTitt
Jan 15, 2014, 6:04 AM
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billcoe_ wrote: JimTitt wrote: .........The big hassle is I often fly and gas powered machinery on planes doesnīt seem to be too popular! Nowadays I just take 5 batteries which drills more holes than I can cope with in a day. Heads up Jim. Be aware that out military has had some explosions on airplanes of the newer lithium batteries. The US military are mandating the older batteries like the Nimh (Nickel Metal Hydride) for anything like tools that might go airborne. Some private companies have seen this play out and it could be that moving a Lithium (or "Lithion" as Bosch wants to call it for trademark reasons) on an airplane through US airspace may be very difficult coming up soon. UPS currently won't carry one to Hawaii for example where they only have air service. Private carries may be next. Thought you'd want to know to keep an eye on it. There have been worldwide restrictions on carrying Li-ion (and LiPo) batts since 2009, they are in the IATA regs. This is due to a number of incidents and the loss of a UPS freight 747 and crew after a lithium fire which the on-board fire system cannot extinguish. For our purposes itīs not really a problem due to the capacity but you MUST carry them correctly packed, declare them and IN YOUR HAND LUGGAGE. Undeclared batteries in the hold may be removed and destroyed, this has happened to a friend of mine flying from Stuttgart.
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