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Sudden and Complete Loss of Strength
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abrock5


Feb 9, 2012, 7:43 PM
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Sudden and Complete Loss of Strength
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I was climbing at the gym tonight and had something happen to me that has never happened before, and it's REALLY starting to freak me out. My arms and hands COMPLETELY gave out when we had barely started climbing. I am wondering if this has ever happened to anyone before and what I can/should do about it. I'll provide all the specifics below in the hopes of giving a complete picture of what happened.

I have been climbing for almost 9 months now. Mostly gym time with some outdoor trad thrown in as well. For the last 3 months, my climbing partner and I have been training at our gym once per week for about 3 hours per session. We are limited to one day per week due to work and gym location. At the start of this, we were climbing about 6 routes per night and were nabbing the occasional 10a. (I realize grades in a gym are relatively meaningless; I am only including it as a reference.) More recently, we average about 10 routes per evening while regularly climbing into the 10b range. A typical evening involves 2 warm up routes, stretching, and then pretty much climbing at our limit the rest of the evening. Although only once per week, I have noticed a HUGE improvement in overall strength and endurance over the past 3 months. After warming up, I can pretty much climb at 10b the rest of the night.

Tonight started out like any other. 2 warm ups, stretching, a new 10a, and then my 10b project that I had worked on for 2 weeks now. On my fourth route of the evening, I climbed it while only hanging once. After about a 15 minute break, I tie in to climb it again, really feeling well about completing it cleanly and moving on to a new project.

As soon as I touched the wall, I knew something was wrong. I had absolutely no strength in my arms. The route started off with some easy jugs and I couldn't even grab those. Being kind of scared, I immediately shut it down and we left. Even now, almost 3 hours later, my grip feels very weak; I have never experienced this feeling before.

Has this ever happened to anyone else? I don't feel injured or sick. I didn't have a good night's sleep and was pretty tired today, but that has been the case before without these effects. Surely it's not a case of overtraining. I have actually cut back. I used to go pretty hard on the fingerboard, but haven't really been on that much since we started a regular training schedule at the gym. Just curious if this has happened to others and if anyone has any advice for me. Thanks!


maldaly


Feb 9, 2012, 8:30 PM
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Go to the hospital NOW! Don't wait, don't fuck around and don't make any excuses. You may be having a stroke or heart attack.


billcoe_


Feb 9, 2012, 8:52 PM
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abrock5 wrote:
I was climbing at the gym tonight and had something happen to me that has never happened before, and it's REALLY starting to freak me out. My arms and hands COMPLETELY gave out when we had barely started climbing. I am wondering if this has ever happened to anyone before and what I can/should do about it. I'll provide all the specifics below in the hopes of giving a complete picture of what happened.

I have been climbing for almost 9 months now. Mostly gym time with some outdoor trad thrown in as well. For the last 3 months, my climbing partner and I have been training at our gym once per week for about 3 hours per session. We are limited to one day per week due to work and gym location. At the start of this, we were climbing about 6 routes per night and were nabbing the occasional 10a. (I realize grades in a gym are relatively meaningless; I am only including it as a reference.) More recently, we average about 10 routes per evening while regularly climbing into the 10b range. A typical evening involves 2 warm up routes, stretching, and then pretty much climbing at our limit the rest of the evening. Although only once per week, I have noticed a HUGE improvement in overall strength and endurance over the past 3 months. After warming up, I can pretty much climb at 10b the rest of the night.

Tonight started out like any other. 2 warm ups, stretching, a new 10a, and then my 10b project that I had worked on for 2 weeks now. On my fourth route of the evening, I climbed it while only hanging once. After about a 15 minute break, I tie in to climb it again, really feeling well about completing it cleanly and moving on to a new project.

As soon as I touched the wall, I knew something was wrong. I had absolutely no strength in my arms. The route started off with some easy jugs and I couldn't even grab those. Being kind of scared, I immediately shut it down and we left. Even now, almost 3 hours later, my grip feels very weak; I have never experienced this feeling before.

Has this ever happened to anyone else? I don't feel injured or sick. I didn't have a good night's sleep and was pretty tired today, but that has been the case before without these effects. Surely it's not a case of overtraining. I have actually cut back. I used to go pretty hard on the fingerboard, but haven't really been on that much since we started a regular training schedule at the gym. Just curious if this has happened to others and if anyone has any advice for me. Thanks!


Go with Malcoms advise. That's just not anything close to normal dude.


flesh


Feb 9, 2012, 11:12 PM
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abrock5 wrote:
I was climbing at the gym tonight and had something happen to me that has never happened before, and it's REALLY starting to freak me out. My arms and hands COMPLETELY gave out when we had barely started climbing. I am wondering if this has ever happened to anyone before and what I can/should do about it. I'll provide all the specifics below in the hopes of giving a complete picture of what happened.

I have been climbing for almost 9 months now. Mostly gym time with some outdoor trad thrown in as well. For the last 3 months, my climbing partner and I have been training at our gym once per week for about 3 hours per session. We are limited to one day per week due to work and gym location. At the start of this, we were climbing about 6 routes per night and were nabbing the occasional 10a. (I realize grades in a gym are relatively meaningless; I am only including it as a reference.) More recently, we average about 10 routes per evening while regularly climbing into the 10b range. A typical evening involves 2 warm up routes, stretching, and then pretty much climbing at our limit the rest of the evening. Although only once per week, I have noticed a HUGE improvement in overall strength and endurance over the past 3 months. After warming up, I can pretty much climb at 10b the rest of the night.

Tonight started out like any other. 2 warm ups, stretching, a new 10a, and then my 10b project that I had worked on for 2 weeks now. On my fourth route of the evening, I climbed it while only hanging once. After about a 15 minute break, I tie in to climb it again, really feeling well about completing it cleanly and moving on to a new project.

As soon as I touched the wall, I knew something was wrong. I had absolutely no strength in my arms. The route started off with some easy jugs and I couldn't even grab those. Being kind of scared, I immediately shut it down and we left. Even now, almost 3 hours later, my grip feels very weak; I have never experienced this feeling before.

Has this ever happened to anyone else? I don't feel injured or sick. I didn't have a good night's sleep and was pretty tired today, but that has been the case before without these effects. Surely it's not a case of overtraining. I have actually cut back. I used to go pretty hard on the fingerboard, but haven't really been on that much since we started a regular training schedule at the gym. Just curious if this has happened to others and if anyone has any advice for me. Thanks!

I suspect part of it is psychological and part of it is the result of bonking. Combined, it might feel that way. I remember my third day climbing, afterwards, It was very difficult to hold the car door handle to shut the door.

Maybe you had a lack of sleep the night before or repeatedly. Maybe you didn't eat or drink enough before. Maybe you have a physical job that wore you out, etc.

I wouldn't worry about it, just go climb again and take it easy, start off with super easy routes and report back.


jt512


Feb 10, 2012, 12:16 AM
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flesh wrote:

I wouldn't worry about it, just go climb again and take it easy, start off with super easy routes and report back.

I always suspected that you were an idiot. Now I know for sure.

Jay


Partner j_ung


Feb 10, 2012, 5:09 AM
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What happened!?


dan2see


Feb 10, 2012, 7:00 AM
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I suspect your heart has a problem that you don't know about. So because you don't know about it already, your episode was a surprise and remains a complete mystery. So you don't know what is the condition of your heart, and you don't know if/when this will hit you again.

Get tested. You can get tests like an echo-gram to check the chamber volume, and how the valves work. You can get measurements of the thickness of the myocardial walls, at rest vs under stress. Maybe even coronary arteries, too.

These tests show conditions that you could never learn about yourself. It doesn't mean that your heart is going to fail and you'll drop dead while leading some route. But you'll know, one way or the other, if there's something you should do about it.


abrock5


Feb 10, 2012, 8:21 AM
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Thanks for the replies everyone. It's the next morning now and I spent a little time on my hangboard just to check everything out. I could hang on, but my arms just felt...weird. Not as weak as last night, but definitely not as strong as normal. I'll definitely visit my doc and get everything checked on. Since we're talking heart stuff here, I should mention that I'm only 30 years old. I actually did have my heart checked a few years ago due to unexplained racing. However, after in depth tests, it was determine to be work/stress related. Everything else looked great.

After last night's incident, I should also tell you guys everything else felt normal. No heart racing, legs felt fine, clear head. Just couldn't grip ANYTHING...not even beginner routes. We'll see what happens after a solid weekend of rest. Thanks again for the input. It helps to know that this is not at all a common occurance.


AnthonyATX


Feb 10, 2012, 8:39 AM
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Some medicines can have strange effects. I was on Lipitor for a while (due to genetically high cholesterol), until both my quadricepts tore from normal movement .

It could have also been a sugar crash, if you have not been eating properly.

But when in doubt, see a doctor, and the internet is not a doctor :)


flesh


Feb 10, 2012, 10:36 AM
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jt512 wrote:
flesh wrote:

I wouldn't worry about it, just go climb again and take it easy, start off with super easy routes and report back.

I always suspected that you were an idiot. Now I know for sure.

Jay

You're such an angry man Jay. You must be hurting inside.


Partner cracklover


Feb 10, 2012, 12:32 PM
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abrock5 wrote:
I was climbing at the gym tonight and had something happen to me that has never happened before, and it's REALLY starting to freak me out. My arms and hands COMPLETELY gave out when we had barely started climbing. I am wondering if this has ever happened to anyone before and what I can/should do about it. I'll provide all the specifics below in the hopes of giving a complete picture of what happened.

I have been climbing for almost 9 months now. Mostly gym time with some outdoor trad thrown in as well. For the last 3 months, my climbing partner and I have been training at our gym once per week for about 3 hours per session. We are limited to one day per week due to work and gym location. At the start of this, we were climbing about 6 routes per night and were nabbing the occasional 10a. (I realize grades in a gym are relatively meaningless; I am only including it as a reference.) More recently, we average about 10 routes per evening while regularly climbing into the 10b range. A typical evening involves 2 warm up routes, stretching, and then pretty much climbing at our limit the rest of the evening. Although only once per week, I have noticed a HUGE improvement in overall strength and endurance over the past 3 months. After warming up, I can pretty much climb at 10b the rest of the night.

Tonight started out like any other. 2 warm ups, stretching, a new 10a, and then my 10b project that I had worked on for 2 weeks now. On my fourth route of the evening, I climbed it while only hanging once. After about a 15 minute break, I tie in to climb it again, really feeling well about completing it cleanly and moving on to a new project.

As soon as I touched the wall, I knew something was wrong. I had absolutely no strength in my arms. The route started off with some easy jugs and I couldn't even grab those. Being kind of scared, I immediately shut it down and we left. Even now, almost 3 hours later, my grip feels very weak; I have never experienced this feeling before.

Has this ever happened to anyone else? I don't feel injured or sick. I didn't have a good night's sleep and was pretty tired today, but that has been the case before without these effects. Surely it's not a case of overtraining. I have actually cut back. I used to go pretty hard on the fingerboard, but haven't really been on that much since we started a regular training schedule at the gym. Just curious if this has happened to others and if anyone has any advice for me. Thanks!

Did your forearms feel super duper pumped, and like the pump just wouldn't go away? That might be functional compartment syndrome. But it doesn't sound like what you described. I really have no idea, and I'd second (fourth?) the idea to go see a doctor.

GO


jt512


Feb 10, 2012, 12:44 PM
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flesh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
flesh wrote:

I wouldn't worry about it, just go climb again and take it easy, start off with super easy routes and report back.

I always suspected that you were an idiot. Now I know for sure.

Jay

You're such an angry man Jay. You must be hurting inside.

I'd rather be angry at an idiot with no medical training who tells someone to ignore symptoms that may indicate a life-threatening condition than be the idiot giving such dangerous advice.

Jay


horseshoe


Feb 10, 2012, 3:28 PM
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So Abrock, what did the physician say?

Even if you start to feel better, please see someone. It may be nothing, in which case you will have peace of mind. Or it may be something that can be easily corrected if caught in time. Or it may be something that you need to know about now.

Regardless, get it checked out and let us know what you find out.


onceahardman


Feb 10, 2012, 3:37 PM
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I doubt cardiac. I'm thinking something neurological/neuromuscular. Are the symptoms absolutely equal bilaterally?

See a generalist first, and if he/she doesn't seem to have a good idea, I'd probably ask for a neuro referral next. I've had sudden, profound weakness in my left arm, but that was from a disc derangement in my c-spine. Equal bilaterally is weird, and potentially really evil. Please see a doc.

EDIT:

Ahead of seeing the doc, check each muscle group individually. Elbow flexors, elbow extensors. Shoulder flexors. Wrist extensors and flexors. Finger flexors and extensors. Finger adductors and abductors. Any numbness or paresthesias? All weak, and equal bilaterally, or is there a difference side to side?


(This post was edited by onceahardman on Feb 10, 2012, 3:48 PM)


onceahardman


Feb 10, 2012, 3:43 PM
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Re: [flesh] Sudden and Complete Loss of Strength [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
jt512 wrote:
flesh wrote:

I wouldn't worry about it, just go climb again and take it easy, start off with super easy routes and report back.

I always suspected that you were an idiot. Now I know for sure.

Jay

You're such an angry man Jay. You must be hurting inside.

Please stick to subjects you know something about.

So far, though, I think there is scant evidence you have anything to contribute on any subject.


(This post was edited by onceahardman on Feb 10, 2012, 3:44 PM)


abrock5


Feb 10, 2012, 5:40 PM
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Thanks for the continued posts everyone. I was unable to go to a general physician today, but plan to do so on Monday. As today has progressed, my right arm feels back to normal. When I make a fist with my left, I feel tightness and soreness in my forearm and bicep. Strength is definitely returning to the left though; last night I could barely even make a fist. If this is strictly muscular, shouldn't I have distinctly felt something if it was a pull or a strain (I'm very seriously doubting a tear)? There was no popping or discomfort last night, just an inability to grip. Also, to answer a previous post, it wasn't a case of being pumped; I actually thought my arms were pretty fresh until I tried that last route. Oh well, we'll see what the doc says Monday and I'll keep you guys up to date


danabart


Feb 10, 2012, 7:44 PM
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In this situation Jay had a very good reason to be angry. I may regret writing this, and it's not intended as an insult, but what you wrote was really stupid.


(This post was edited by danabart on Feb 10, 2012, 7:50 PM)


flesh


Feb 11, 2012, 10:35 PM
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danabart wrote:
In this situation Jay had a very good reason to be angry. I may regret writing this, and it's not intended as an insult, but what you wrote was really stupid.

You guys are right. I responded without considering the facts, it could have been dangerous for the op. I apologize. Similar things have happened to me and I never worried about it, I didn't stop to think. I quick posted.

Calling someone an idiot is rude. Why not make a suggestion that a mistake was made? Jay has a history of going after people and it doesn't benefit our community. He's a bully, an internet bully.

Originally, I came here because I thought I could help struggling climbers. It seems this isn't the place for that.


jt512


Feb 11, 2012, 10:51 PM
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flesh wrote:
danabart wrote:
In this situation Jay had a very good reason to be angry. I may regret writing this, and it's not intended as an insult, but what you wrote was really stupid.

You guys are right. I responded without considering the facts, it could have been dangerous for the op. I apologize. Similar things have happened to me and I never worried about it, I didn't stop to think. I quick posted.

Calling someone an idiot is rude. Why not make a suggestion that a mistake was made? Jay has a history of going after people and it doesn't benefit our community. He's a bully, an internet bully.

Originally, I came here because I thought I could help struggling climbers. It seems this isn't the place for that.

You really should have stopped after the first paragraph.

Jay


shockabuku


Feb 12, 2012, 8:33 AM
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flesh wrote:
danabart wrote:
In this situation Jay had a very good reason to be angry. I may regret writing this, and it's not intended as an insult, but what you wrote was really stupid.

You guys are right. I responded without considering the facts, it could have been dangerous for the op. I apologize. Similar things have happened to me and I never worried about it, I didn't stop to think. I quick posted.

Calling someone an idiot is rude. Why not make a suggestion that a mistake was made? Jay has a history of going after people and it doesn't benefit our community. He's a bully, an internet bully.

Originally, I came here because I thought I could help struggling climbers. It seems this isn't the place for that.

Quitting and/or complaining don't accomplish much; which is not to say that's all you're doing but, if that's where you leave it...


onceahardman


Feb 12, 2012, 4:50 PM
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Nice of you to apologize.

Sure, Jay can be a bully sometimes. But toughen up. Bullies can be bested. Jay can be beat in an argument, but you'd better know what you're talking about. He's a pretty smart cookie.

If you don't, you are better off just walking away. Bullies seek attention. If you ignore them, they lose interest.

Presently, you are outgunned.


NeedMoreCowbell


Feb 12, 2012, 8:41 PM
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OP: I did have a similar experience. I climb about 1.5 hrs a day, 3 or 4 times a week in the gym. I started experiencing sever bicep pain, and it would dissipate a few hours after I stopped climbing. One day, I lost almost all strength in my arm, and could not even lift my arm to shoulder height. I went to my ortho and he diagnosed me with shoulder impingement syndrome (This was my diagnosis, may not be yours). It is caused by repeated overhead movements, or other forceful overhead actions. I am not a medical professional, so I will not try to get into the specifics, but my healthcare provider instructed me on several exercises to relieve the stress on my tendons, and gave me a week of anti-inflammatories. That was four months ago, and I have not had any symptoms since.

Please seek medical attention - your symptoms sound serious. A Dr. or other trained medical professional will be able to help you more than anyone on a forum.


boadman


Feb 13, 2012, 1:37 PM
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Sounds like flash pump to me.


billl7


Feb 13, 2012, 4:03 PM
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Sounds pretty weird to me, worth getting checked out. I am not saying it is the same thing by any stretch but ...

Bachar took his last fall not so long after complaining about periodic and unexpected loss of arm / hand strength, one-sided if I recall correctly.


squierbypetzl
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Feb 13, 2012, 5:26 PM
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Damn, didn't know that about Bachar.

Either you greatly exagerated your symptoms or you potentially have a life threatening medical condition. I hope it's the former but if it's the latter then don't put off getting medical attention.


abrock5


Feb 13, 2012, 6:38 PM
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I went to the doctor's office today for a check up. For now, they just did some blood work. Everything they tested was normal, except for slightly elevated CPK numbers. Although this could indicate several serious conditions, the levels that mine measured at are more likely muscles recovering from a workout. He is going to check again in a week just to make sure they've gone back down, which I fully expect them to.

Honestly, I feel completely normal now. Barring a weird result next week, I'm just going assume that it was due to higher than normal muscle fatigue...either from a lack of sleep or "bonking" as someone had mentioned. As I am still relatively new to climbing, I was just curious if this phenomenon was a common occurrence. I didn't mean to imply that I had a life threatening condition, but I can assure you I wasn't exaggerating in the least. I couldn't grip ANYTHING! We'll see how a return trip to the gym goes, and hopefully all will be back to normal.


billl7


Feb 13, 2012, 9:26 PM
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I'm reminded of a time when I lay shivering in my damp sleeping bag after five hard hours high on a mountain without eating or drinking all the while. A quart of water, about five big handfuls of trail mix, and then I was literally toasty for the rest of the night.

The water was freezing cold - hard to convince my shivering self I really needed to drink it all.

David Fasulo in "Self-Rescue" mentions working himself hard for a day without eating/drinking enough to the point of not being able to see or talk at a belay ledge two pitches up. Talk about sudden and complete loss of strength!

Good to get the doctor's opinion. Maybe watch the fluids and food as well (edit: in addition to lack of sleep)?

Note: I may be mixing up unrelated problems in the above without realizing. And I know there are medical issues that could possibly be at play.

Bill L


(This post was edited by billl7 on Feb 13, 2012, 9:35 PM)


Kartessa


Feb 14, 2012, 4:30 AM
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How high is "slightly"?

CK (CPK) levels of 150-200iu/l is the normal range with some individuals having normal muscle function with as high as 400iu/l (including the after-workout crowd)

High levels can indicate muscle or heart disease so don't fuck around

I'm no expert, far from it. My only knowledge stems from dozens of hours of google searches, and hours of harassing my family doctor about my sons 20000iu/l CK results (this is how we found out he has Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy). YMM(will)V


(This post was edited by Kartessa on Feb 14, 2012, 4:49 AM)


redonkulus


Feb 14, 2012, 6:34 AM
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I've experienced the same thing before at the gym, after a poor night's sleep, and very very little food all day. Warm up and everything is going fine, fall clipping the chains on an onsite of an 11d, and then all the sudden BONK. The next route I did was a 5.7, and I hung twice. Not trying to talk about grades, but that's a massive loss of strength, in almost no time. But, while I chose to do nothing about it because I realized I was just bonking, your case sounds slightly different since the symptoms persisted for a while.


abrock5


Feb 14, 2012, 6:41 AM
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How long did it take you to recover from bonking? And did you feel it all over or mainly in your arms?

Also, to a previous post. My CPK was 430 so nothing too high at all. The doc said it was elevated, but he also said he wasn't really that concerned about it. Only when it reaches 4 digits is it really a sign of a problem. He still wanted me to go back just to make sure it returned to a baseline level.


redonkulus


Feb 14, 2012, 9:34 AM
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I didn't climb the next day, so I can't say if I woulda climbed well, but I didn't feel too bad. And actually, I ate a Snickers or something and about 30 minutes later I was able to do some boulder problems. Still couldn't do anything that was longer than a few moves though. It seemed in my case that it was mainly my endurance that went out. Hard, short stuff was alright, but even 6-7 jugs in a row had me completely pumped out of my mind. Felt fairly tired all over, but mainly in the forearms when I was climbing.


tH1e-swiN1e


Feb 15, 2012, 8:18 AM
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Sounds kind of like flash pump to me. Dehydration could be a factor as well.

And no offense but if you project 10b you shouldnt be "training" on a hang board. I know more people injured from hang boards than anything else.


redonkulus


Feb 15, 2012, 10:03 AM
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tH1e-swiN1e wrote:
Sounds kind of like flash pump to me. Dehydration could be a factor as well.

And no offense but if you project 10b you shouldnt be "training" on a hang board. I know more people injured from hang boards than anything else.

Me? Nah, I know flash pumps, and that was not one. Most times with a flash pump, you'll feel it during the route prior, which I did not. Even flashpumped, with 10-15 minutes rest in between that route and the next (climbing with two partners) I wouldn't expect to drop almost 5 NUMBER grades in ability. I felt about ready to fall asleep on the floor of the gym all of the sudden. It was probably a combination of dehydration, lack of sleep, lack of food.

Agree about hangboards though. I'm scared of mine a lil bit. Plus, its not much fun.


abrock5


Feb 15, 2012, 12:18 PM
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I'm thinking a combination of lack of food, water, and sleep were the culprit here. Am I correct in assuming this is bonking? I am kind of doubting a flash pump as I've been really pumped before after a long day, and this did not feel that way at all.

Going off topic here, but it's an interesting point you bring up about the hang board. I have basically been training on one since about a month into my climbing. I had read all of the warnings about injuries, but I thought the risk was worth it since I live so far away from a gym or crag. It was about the only way for me to train regularly more than once per week. I started slowly on the jugs and larger pockets (and shut it down if anything start to hurt), but by the end I was going pretty hard at it. I have the Metolius 3D and was living on the shallow 4 fingers pockets. I could do pull ups and lock offs on those like it was going out of style. Same for 3 finger pockets and the deep 2 fingers. Slopers were no problem either...even added a 10lb weight belt. My usual work out would last about half an hour.

OK, enough with my eBragging...I do have an actual point. I feel like I was progressing pretty good on the hang board, but do you think it was actually slowing my progress? Also, based on what I was doing training, do you think I should be climbing beyond where I am now? I know it's only gym ratings, but I can climb about half of their 10b's and the others are 2-3 session projects for me.


erisspirit


Feb 15, 2012, 12:57 PM
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abrock5 wrote:
OK, enough with my eBragging...I do have an actual point. I feel like I was progressing pretty good on the hang board, but do you think it was actually slowing my progress? Also, based on what I was doing training, do you think I should be climbing beyond where I am now? I know it's only gym ratings, but I can climb about half of their 10b's and the others are 2-3 session projects for me.

I can barely do a couple pullups, and it doesn't hinder me doing 10bs. I'm not a big anti hangboard person, but technique will get you well past 10b without strength really becoming an issue. I'd still say 90% of the moves I can't pull are technique problems and not strength issues. The easiest way to work on technique is to just climb more, which can be tough sometimes.

on topic - I hope all the tests come back normal! good luck!


tH1e-swiN1e


Feb 15, 2012, 1:23 PM
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erisspirit wrote:
I can barely do a couple pullups, and it doesn't hinder me doing 10bs. I'm not a big anti hangboard person, but technique will get you well past 10b without strength really becoming an issue. I'd still say 90% of the moves I can't pull are technique problems and not strength issues. The easiest way to work on technique is to just climb more, which can be tough sometimes.

on topic - I hope all the tests come back normal! good luck!

Completely agree. Dont get me wrong, I LOVE my hang board workouts but wouldnt suggest them to anyone who isnt well into their climbing years. I feel its great for contact strength etc but like you said, no technique involved. As we all know climbing involves more than doing pull-ups in tiny crimps.


abrock5


Feb 15, 2012, 1:40 PM
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Thanks erisspirit! I have one more blood test Monday just to make sure things are back to normal, but I feel much better now. I'll climb again tomorrow, so that will be the real test, but I expect things to be completely normal.

As to the rest of your post, that's amazing! I could go do 30 straight pull ups and all kinds of other finger board exercises right now, but still struggle w/10b. You've given me a lot to think about/work on regarding technique. Appreciate the advice!


flesh


Feb 21, 2012, 11:50 PM
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My favorite anti bonk climbing food. PRO BAR before climbing and water, during, I drink this

http://pacifichealthlabs.com/accelerade-advanced-sports-drink.asp

I like mountain berry and orange.

I'll drink it from the beginning of my workout till the end. If it's a long workout, like a 3 hour bouldering comp recently, I'll make two servings in a big bottle or two smaller bottles. For the longer sessions I'll also throw in a couple of their gel packs.

I don't drink the after drink because I'll always eat a meal within half an hour.

I only recently discovered this, I've tried alot of things, it truly makes a difference. Mainly I've noticed that I can climb just below my limit maybe 50% longer when compared to a regular energy bar and water. Also, I can climb at or close to my limit every other day consistently. Before, I could climb every other day for about two weeks and would have to take two to three days off for full recovery. Cumatively, over years, these minor differences can make a huge difference. Plus, you get more time on the rock, to lock in your technique. Particularly, I believe that being able to climb 50% longer just below my limit will be powerful because it gives me much more time to practice movement at a high level, allowing for more advanced muscle memory and technique to be assimilated.

Psychologically, when you find yourself seeing big ups and downs in your performance, understand that this is normal. I have days where I couldn't do a particular v8 and then after just one rest day, for no apparent reason, done that problem and another 13 v8's in one session. This happened to me 2 weeks ago. It's important to expect and be ready for the unexpected. Allow for variation, don't let the lows get you down and don't hold yourself back from being great when things come together. These extremes are part of the game and can be focused to service your progression. For me it's absolutely critical that that I recognize this pattern. Use this experience as a tool and apply what you've learned going forward. No matter how poorly your climbing that day. On the good days, don't hold yourself back because of what others expect, let yourself get engulfed in the excitement and passion and blow the lid off!

When It's a especially weak day for me I use it to my benefit. Use this day to practive technique and movement which is best learned by doing. Cover as much ez ground as possible and just feel your body from head to toe. Pay attention how your fingers, elbows, shoulders, core, upper legs, lower legs, feet, and toes feel. Notice/practice variations in breathing. Experiment with climbing as fast as you can, then as slow as you can, which one seemed more efficient? Was it more efficient because it always is or just on that specific climb? How do the textures feel on your fingers? Are you over gripping? Could you execute the move you just did more efficiently? How would you know if was more efficient? Maybe you could make it more fun? Experiment, jump with both hands sideways 4 feet, do it again, but this time, smoothly, and as you swing your feet over place the quickly and perfectly, etc.


ceebo


Feb 22, 2012, 4:51 PM
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erisspirit wrote:
abrock5 wrote:
OK, enough with my eBragging...I do have an actual point. I feel like I was progressing pretty good on the hang board, but do you think it was actually slowing my progress? Also, based on what I was doing training, do you think I should be climbing beyond where I am now? I know it's only gym ratings, but I can climb about half of their 10b's and the others are 2-3 session projects for me.

I can barely do a couple pullups, and it doesn't hinder me doing 10bs. I'm not a big anti hangboard person, but technique will get you well past 10b without strength really becoming an issue. I'd still say 90% of the moves I can't pull are technique problems and not strength issues. The easiest way to work on technique is to just climb more, which can be tough sometimes.

This is not right. It realy bugs me at how little validation is given to the improtence of strength. It is jsut as important as technique. All routes requires X ammount of strength, technique simply reduces that X amount not eliminate it.

Good tehnique is (imo) the ability to keep the body as close to cog/base support as possible to reduce physical strain. When not possible, the climber then has to use a move that requires the least amount of strength. A lay back to achieve a out of reach high step before rocking over is a good example of using strength to get back into a good base support before the next upward movement.

Many easier routes allow the climber to easier stay wirthin the base support or cog (like shifting weight over one foot to the next as you go up the wall). Such climbing is very poor preperation for harder climbing. You can not stay within good base support all the time... you really need to learn the techniques that require more strength.

As the routes progress the opertunity to stay within good base support reduce. However.. it is more than posible that such routes are still at a low enough level where the holds are big and positave. This allows a climber to learn the techniques required to climb outside desired base support etc that you will find in much harder climbing.

Ultimately what you end up with is a climber who has a great foundation of technique but not the physical side to go with it.

The technical differances between 7a/b and 8a are really nothing worth noting.

Any person who can consistently climb f7a has enough technique where strength/endurance training will do wonders for them.. to 8a standard at least.

Endlessly doing low level climbing and thinking technique will some day shoot you into the stars is rediculess. Please.. any climber out their wanting to improve, work both technique and strength, get onto high 6 range to 7a climbing asap.. the technique required their is the foundations to all above climbing.. since it involves all aspects of it that low level climbing simply does NOT.


puerto


Feb 23, 2012, 5:14 PM
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jt512 wrote:
flesh wrote:

I wouldn't worry about it, just go climb again and take it easy, start off with super easy routes and report back.

I always suspected that you were an idiot. Now I know for sure.

Jay

Sometimes when I wander back in here I wonder what combination of narcissism, bitterness, and cowardice could create an online persona like Jay's???

I mean, if he behaved this way in everyday life he'd get his ass kicked on a daily basis..

Maybe in real life he's very careful in his choice of victims?

Best of luck man, you're gonna need it.


jt512


Feb 23, 2012, 6:38 PM
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puerto wrote:
jt512 wrote:
flesh wrote:

I wouldn't worry about it, just go climb again and take it easy, start off with super easy routes and report back.

I always suspected that you were an idiot. Now I know for sure.

Jay

Sometimes when I wander back in here I wonder what combination of narcissism, bitterness, and cowardice could create an online persona like Jay's???

I mean, if he behaved this way in everyday life he'd get his ass kicked on a daily basis..

Maybe in real life he's very careful in his choice of victims?

Best of luck man, you're gonna need it.

I'm not going to need as much luck as the guy who ignores his serious medical symptoms, the guy who tells him to ignore them, or the guy who agrees with that guy.

"Good luck" to you, too.

*plonk*

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Feb 23, 2012, 6:38 PM)


MonsterInBeef


Feb 23, 2012, 11:45 PM
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Good on you for seeking professional medical attention. Let the the guys who suffered through med school handle those sort of issues. To be on the pro-active side you might want to do a search on rhabdomyolysis and see if that makes sense as its often accomplied w/ elevated CK levels.


puerto


Feb 29, 2012, 6:40 AM
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Jay being the intellectual-giant-in-his-own mind that he is, I was looking for some kind of intelligent justification of his "might makes right" philosophy, a personal philosophy demonstrated by years of behavior on this website.

Yet all I got was a willful evasion of the fact that he could have made the exact same point in a much nicer and more constructive way.

Fitting I guess..


(This post was edited by puerto on Feb 29, 2012, 6:42 AM)


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