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guangzhou


Feb 29, 2012, 7:47 PM
Post #26 of 46 (1554 views)
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Re: [pinktricam] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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pinktricam wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
I've given examples of people with advance college degrees who don't make more than people without college degree, so I stand by the bold isn't true.

un·e·quiv·o·cal
   [uhn-i-kwiv-uh-kuhl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
not equivocal; unambiguous; clear; having only one possible meaning or interpretation: an unequivocal indication of assent; unequivocal proof.

Again, I think people to go to college are more likely to be self motivated and willing to improve their life. Oo are the traits that will drive a person to being more successful, with or without a college degree.

Also consider how many are not working within the field they studied in college. A college degree opens a door, nothing more.

The problem I have with the above quote is that is makes people believe that once they have a college degree everything will be fine. Society says get a degree to become successful and then get upset when they still have to fight for ajob after the degree.

High school guidance counselor tell them the ebst job prospect ten years from now will be in such and such, so everyone heads in that direction instead of thinking about where people are not headed and where jobs will be with no-one applying.

I support people going to college, I believe in education, the issue I have is that so many statements make the college degree the end all be all to success.

For the last decades I've been surrounded by success ex-pats. Many were traveling in South East Asia 10, 15, or 20 years ago. Some had degrees, some didn't. They saw an opportunity and developed it. Less than 10% of these guys have a business within the area they had a background in, the one with college degrees are in completely different fields.

A college degree doesn't garantee you anything. Motivation to succeed will get you a lot further. Motivation to succeed isn't about seating around and thinking about what you want to do, it's about getting off you butt and moving forward.

Same in climbing climbing. Climbers can dream about climbing 5.13c (like above) they can read about training methods, wathc strong climber climb those grade, but until they actually physically and mentally commit themselves, they won't reach it.

Everyone has excuses on why they can and can't do it. Most revolve around time. Last I check, everyone lives in a world with a 24 hour day. We make time for what we are really interested in, and we omit the things we just find nice to have.

Shit, I'm not reading all that!

Of course not, it's not the Bible.


pinktricam


Feb 29, 2012, 7:50 PM
Post #27 of 46 (1551 views)
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Re: [guangzhou] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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guangzhou wrote:
pinktricam wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
I've given examples of people with advance college degrees who don't make more than people without college degree, so I stand by the bold isn't true.

un·e·quiv·o·cal
   [uhn-i-kwiv-uh-kuhl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
not equivocal; unambiguous; clear; having only one possible meaning or interpretation: an unequivocal indication of assent; unequivocal proof.

Again, I think people to go to college are more likely to be self motivated and willing to improve their life. Oo are the traits that will drive a person to being more successful, with or without a college degree.

Also consider how many are not working within the field they studied in college. A college degree opens a door, nothing more.

The problem I have with the above quote is that is makes people believe that once they have a college degree everything will be fine. Society says get a degree to become successful and then get upset when they still have to fight for ajob after the degree.

High school guidance counselor tell them the ebst job prospect ten years from now will be in such and such, so everyone heads in that direction instead of thinking about where people are not headed and where jobs will be with no-one applying.

I support people going to college, I believe in education, the issue I have is that so many statements make the college degree the end all be all to success.

For the last decades I've been surrounded by success ex-pats. Many were traveling in South East Asia 10, 15, or 20 years ago. Some had degrees, some didn't. They saw an opportunity and developed it. Less than 10% of these guys have a business within the area they had a background in, the one with college degrees are in completely different fields.

A college degree doesn't garantee you anything. Motivation to succeed will get you a lot further. Motivation to succeed isn't about seating around and thinking about what you want to do, it's about getting off you butt and moving forward.

Same in climbing climbing. Climbers can dream about climbing 5.13c (like above) they can read about training methods, wathc strong climber climb those grade, but until they actually physically and mentally commit themselves, they won't reach it.

Everyone has excuses on why they can and can't do it. Most revolve around time. Last I check, everyone lives in a world with a 24 hour day. We make time for what we are really interested in, and we omit the things we just find nice to have.

Shit, I'm not reading all that!

Of course not, it's not the Bible.

No, that's not why.


petsfed


Feb 29, 2012, 7:54 PM
Post #28 of 46 (1549 views)
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Re: [pinktricam] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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pinktricam wrote:
Shit, I'm not reading all that!

Alternately TL;DR


Partner rrrADAM


Mar 1, 2012, 2:03 AM
Post #29 of 46 (1528 views)
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Re: [pinktricam] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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pinktricam wrote:
scrapedape wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
cracklover wrote:
j_ung wrote:
traddad wrote:
...that way you're more controlable.
Willful ignorance: The pride of the Bush(2) administration now perfected in the Tea Party.
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/...e-push.php?ref=fpblg

I think Rick Santorum deserves a "Darwin Award".

Thread title's a bit redundant.

Back on topic...

Average lifetime salaries are absolutely and unequivocally tied to level of education, as is unemployment rate in the inverse.

Right, but correlation does not prove causation.

For example, it may be that on average, those people who have more education already possessed skills that made them more successful in the job market, such as intelligence and persistence.

BTW, not calling you dumb and lazy! , LOL!

GAngelic

I also have never seen a study that proved having an education, college degree in this case, means you'll make more money.

And you never will, because that's not the sort of thing that can be proven. The question is whether or not a preponderance of evidence supports the conclusion or not.

I believe the evidence does support the conclusion...



Eric... There are many studies producing graphs that show EXACTLY the same decline in religiosity with education as that one does witth unemployement.

Why do you think that is? That the more educated one is the less likely they are to be bat-shit-crazy religious nut-jobs?


Partner j_ung


Mar 1, 2012, 5:41 AM
Post #30 of 46 (1508 views)
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Registered: Nov 21, 2003
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Re: [guangzhou] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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guangzhou wrote:
I've given examples of people with advance college degrees who don't make more than people without college degree, so I stand by the bold isn't true.

un·e·quiv·o·cal
   [uhn-i-kwiv-uh-kuhl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
not equivocal; unambiguous; clear; having only one possible meaning or interpretation: an unequivocal indication of assent; unequivocal proof.

Again, I think people to go to college are more likely to be self motivated and willing to improve their life. Those are the traits that will drive a person to being more successful, with or without a college degree.

Also consider how many are not working within the field they studied in college. A college degree opens a door, nothing more.

The problem I have with the above quote is that is makes people believe that once they have a college degree everything will be fine. Society says get a degree to become successful and then get upset when they still have to fight for ajob after the degree.

High school guidance counselor tell them the ebst job prospect ten years from now will be in such and such, so everyone heads in that direction instead of thinking about where people are not headed and where jobs will be with no-one applying.

I support people going to college, I believe in education, the issue I have is that so many statements make the college degree the end all be all to success.

For the last decades I've been surrounded by success ex-pats. Many were traveling in South East Asia 10, 15, or 20 years ago. Some had degrees, some didn't. They saw an opportunity and developed it. Less than 10% of these guys have a business within the area they had a background in, the one with college degrees are in completely different fields.

A college degree doesn't garantee you anything. Motivation to succeed will get you a lot further. Motivation to succeed isn't about seating around and thinking about what you want to do, it's about getting off you butt and moving forward.

Same in climbing climbing. Climbers can dream about climbing 5.13c (like above) they can read about training methods, wathc strong climber climb those grade, but until they actually physically and mentally commit themselves, they won't reach it.

Everyone has excuses on why they can and can't do it. Most revolve around time. Last I check, everyone lives in a world with a 24 hour day. We make time for what we are really interested in, and we omit the things we just find nice to have.

I don't disagree with most of that, but you're citing exceptions as rules. My hypothesis is that college enables most people who complete it to communicate their ideas and opinions intelligently—and that's the skill that is likely to get you a bigger a salary.


traddad


Mar 1, 2012, 6:34 AM
Post #31 of 46 (1501 views)
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Registered: Dec 14, 2001
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Re: [j_ung] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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I think one of the problems with comparing salaries between the college educated and the not-so-much is the issue of job choice. Yes, I complain about not making as much, say, as the manager of the local Quick Trip gas station, but I get to do this:

I investigate this:



Sometimes here:



But I may have to dress warmly:



Sometimes I travel with my buddy:


And sometimes I like to pass it on:


I wouldn't have this job w/o a degree.


traddad


Mar 1, 2012, 6:44 AM
Post #32 of 46 (1496 views)
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Registered: Dec 14, 2001
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Re: [traddad] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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I also sample here:


I live here:




I complain, but I don't regret.


pinktricam


Mar 1, 2012, 6:54 AM
Post #33 of 46 (1492 views)
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Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 7947

Re: [rrrADAM] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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rrrADAM wrote:
pinktricam wrote:
scrapedape wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
cracklover wrote:
j_ung wrote:
traddad wrote:
...that way you're more controlable.
Willful ignorance: The pride of the Bush(2) administration now perfected in the Tea Party.
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/...e-push.php?ref=fpblg

I think Rick Santorum deserves a "Darwin Award".

Thread title's a bit redundant.

Back on topic...

Average lifetime salaries are absolutely and unequivocally tied to level of education, as is unemployment rate in the inverse.

Right, but correlation does not prove causation.

For example, it may be that on average, those people who have more education already possessed skills that made them more successful in the job market, such as intelligence and persistence.

BTW, not calling you dumb and lazy! , LOL!

GAngelic

I also have never seen a study that proved having an education, college degree in this case, means you'll make more money.

And you never will, because that's not the sort of thing that can be proven. The question is whether or not a preponderance of evidence supports the conclusion or not.

I believe the evidence does support the conclusion...

[image]http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.JPG[/image]


Eric... There are many studies producing graphs that show EXACTLY the same decline in religiosity with education as that one does witth unemployement.

Why do you think that is? That the more educated one is the less likely they are to be bat-shit-crazy religious nut-jobs?

I'm against "religion," I'm for Christ. Maybe some day you'll be able to understand the subtleties of that statement.


Partner j_ung


Mar 1, 2012, 10:51 AM
Post #34 of 46 (1461 views)
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Re: [pinktricam] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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Explain it to me.


camhead


Mar 1, 2012, 11:30 AM
Post #35 of 46 (1456 views)
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Registered: Sep 9, 2001
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Re: [j_ung] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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Guansho, you are showing a severe inability to distingish between anecdotes and large-scale population statistics. But, just to give you something else to roll with, I've got a Ph.D. and make less than 20k/year. Feel free to use me as an example in future debates.

Here's the true Republican view of education:

In reply to:
I thank God that there are no free schools or printing... for learning has brought disobedience, and heresy, and sects into the world, and printing has divulged them, and libels against the best government. God keep us from both!

--Sir William Berkeley, Royal Governor of Virginia Colony, 1671




guangzhou


Mar 1, 2012, 6:35 PM
Post #36 of 46 (1429 views)
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Re: [camhead] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
Guansho, you are showing a severe inability to distingish between anecdotes and large-scale population statistics. But, just to give you something else to roll with, I've got a Ph.D. and make less than 20k/year. Feel free to use me as an example in future debates.

Here's the true Republican view of education:

In reply to:

While you are an example of someone with an advance degree making less money than someone without, I would guess it's by choice.

Your degree opened a door you wanted to enter. Not all of us are driven by the desire to earn more money.

Someone else above posted that a college degree help you to communicate better. A good argument, but I know more than enough college grads who can't communicate, verbally or written, to save their life. I also know a few people who make a living at communication, writers and public speakers, who have no college degrees.

Again, I am all for college. What I don't agree with is people telling our youth that college will make you successful. I know a lot of college students who would have benefited from taking a year or two off before entering college. (Work or travel)


chadnsc


Mar 2, 2012, 11:07 AM
Post #37 of 46 (1389 views)
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Registered: Nov 24, 2003
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Re: [guangzhou] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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Guangzhou with your cheesetiting you shouldn't be commenting on how to communicate.


Toast_in_the_Machine


Mar 2, 2012, 12:08 PM
Post #38 of 46 (1377 views)
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Re: [guangzhou] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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And the bias that college self selecting as a determining feature of success its also disproven.
http://ideas.repec.org/p/nbr/nberwo/4067.html

Or google "vietnam draft lottery education income" for other analysis.


pinktricam


Mar 2, 2012, 2:17 PM
Post #39 of 46 (1355 views)
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Re: [j_ung] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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j_ung wrote:
Explain it to me.

Not on this forum. Not with bozos (see above) ignorantly sniping.


curt


Mar 3, 2012, 12:13 PM
Post #40 of 46 (1303 views)
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Re: [j_ung] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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j_ung wrote:
Explain it to me.

It means he likes the underlying mythology but not the manner in which other people happen to recognize it.

Curt


guangzhou


Mar 5, 2012, 5:36 AM
Post #41 of 46 (1233 views)
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Re: [chadnsc] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
Guangzhou with your cheesetiting you shouldn't be commenting on how to communicate.

I have no idea what cheesetiting means.


traddad


Mar 5, 2012, 5:53 AM
Post #42 of 46 (1226 views)
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Re: [guangzhou] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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guangzhou wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Guangzhou with your cheesetiting you shouldn't be commenting on how to communicate.

I have no idea what cheesetiting means.

Visualize a flacid bag of skin with distended aerola and filled with large curd cottage cheese.


camhead


Mar 5, 2012, 6:10 AM
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Re: [guangzhou] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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guangzhou wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Guangzhou with your cheesetiting you shouldn't be commenting on how to communicate.

I have no idea what cheesetiting means.

It means "messing up quote functions." Review your post above, and see how confusing it looks. The "Preview Post" button is your friend. You don't need a PhD to figure this out.


Toast_in_the_Machine


Mar 5, 2012, 9:22 AM
Post #44 of 46 (1196 views)
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Re: [camhead] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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In reply to:
camhead wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Guangzhou with your cheesetiting you shouldn't be commenting on how to communicate.

I have no idea what cheesetiting means.

It means "messing up quote functions." Review your post above, and see how confusing it looks. The "Preview Post" button is your friend. You don't need a PhD to figure this out.

No, but a college edumacation helps.


traddad


Mar 5, 2012, 9:58 AM
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Re: [camhead] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Guangzhou with your cheesetiting you shouldn't be commenting on how to communicate.

I have no idea what cheesetiting means.

It means "messing up quote functions." Review your post above, and see how confusing it looks. The "Preview Post" button is your friend. You don't need a PhD to figure this out.

JFC, that's MUCH more appetizing than my guess.


guangzhou


Mar 5, 2012, 5:37 PM
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Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] They want you stupid and uneducated... [In reply to]
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
In reply to:
camhead wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Guangzhou with your cheesetiting you shouldn't be commenting on how to communicate.

I have no idea what cheesetiting means.

It means "messing up quote functions." Review your post above, and see how confusing it looks. The "Preview Post" button is your friend. You don't need a PhD to figure this out.

No, but a college edumacation helps.

I doubt it, I have one of those.

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