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nikilee93


Feb 28, 2012, 7:37 PM
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I have been interested in rock climbing for a while now but have been really nervous to because I am overweight. I am 5'7 and weigh 217 pounds. I have been wanting to lose weight and I figured this might just be a good time to start climbing.

would there be any troubles with me climbing? Would the gear be able to hold me(I am afraid of ropes breaking and such)? Is it common for people overweight to climb? Any tips for a person who wants to begin climbing in washington state?


TarHeelEMT


Feb 28, 2012, 8:58 PM
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Re: [nikilee93] Overweight [In reply to]
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There would be no particular safety concerns. I weigh 210.

You don't see tons of overweight folks out climbing, but I do see heavier folks out at the crag every now and then. Get out there and start climbing.


FriscoWilderness


Feb 28, 2012, 9:20 PM
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Re: [nikilee93] Overweight [In reply to]
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nikilee,

I agree with the get out and climb, however

I started climbing at 250+, now 180 and stronger climber for not waiting, like any other new endeavor, get familar with the equipment and gear used in climbing so that you can eliminate the un needed fears of equipment breaking and such, you dont need that running through your head when you do start climbing. Take it slow in the beginning to prevent injury and find where your particular center of balance is.

6' 210 is not exactly the same as 5'7 217, but it is like Nike says, Just Do It.


Idako


Feb 29, 2012, 6:06 AM
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Re: [FriscoWilderness] Overweight [In reply to]
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6'1", currently 230 started @ around 250. It can be hard, you'll see people crush routes that are challenging to you in the beginning simply from being at a disadvantage to start. In time though as long as you are also dropping some of the weight on the way you'l start to notice major improvements.

One suggestion is to, at least in the beginning, steer away from overhangs (30/45 degree). Until all your tendons / ligaments etc catch up you can put a lot of strain on them if you're supporting all your weight on a tenuous grip. My 2c.

Also pick up Self Coached Climber and try to do some of the suggested exercises, improving your technique early in the game will help overcome or at least mitigate some of the issues weight brings to the table.

Just take it slow, expect to repeat a lot of lower grade routes as you build up the strength / endurance.

Also in most cases you'll want your belayer anchored :)

my 2c


blueeyedclimber


Feb 29, 2012, 6:24 AM
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Re: [nikilee93] Overweight [In reply to]
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I will echo the statements of getting out and doing it, but would suggest you add in cardio to your exercise (if you are not already). Both for Health reasons and for weight loss which will help your climbing.

Good Luck.

Josh


FriscoWilderness


Feb 29, 2012, 6:25 AM
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Idako,

Good advice, put you should reply to the OP so that they can get the message.


healyje


Feb 29, 2012, 6:41 AM
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Definitely check it out, but realistically at 5'7, you want to be down around 170 or under for the long run so as not to be tearing up all your joints. I'd second the cardio suggestion and say walking / running, biking, swimming would all be good calls for a mainstay exercise for now.


jolery


Feb 29, 2012, 8:16 AM
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nikilee93 wrote:
I have been interested in rock climbing for a while now but have been really nervous to because I am overweight. I am 5'7 and weigh 217 pounds. I have been wanting to lose weight and I figured this might just be a good time to start climbing.

would there be any troubles with me climbing? Would the gear be able to hold me(I am afraid of ropes breaking and such)? Is it common for people overweight to climb? Any tips for a person who wants to begin climbing in washington state?

Go for it. Gear will be fine. Take precautions for having belayer and climber of significantly different weights - anchor the belayer etc. Also if you are using a standard ATC or equivalent some skinny ropes can be a bitch to lower heavier folk on.

One of my climbing partners from years past was about your size. He worked hard and was leading routes at a respectable level.


dindolino32


Feb 29, 2012, 8:45 AM
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Re: [nikilee93] Overweight [In reply to]
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I couldn't find any info on where you live, but gear is fine. The problem that I usually see at gyms is that everything is so overhung that all the weight is on your arms. If you can get outside you will get a better full body workout. Also you can do longer durations of climbing instead of 30-40 of overhung climbing. Some of my best climbing days and workouts have been on climbs where I hike in a few miles, climb a easier multipitch route, and hike back. If you had the knowledge base then you would be in high heaven. The problem is that as a newbie, going back country is not such a good idea. But this can be a goal to give you motivation while making it past the initial aggravation at the gym. Lastly, ASK people at the gym for advice on how to train, or at least read a book like "training for climbing" so you can actually get better instead of showing up at the gym and getting pumped on 2 routes, then leaving. That way takes a LONG time to get any improvement.


adelphos


Feb 29, 2012, 10:02 AM
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The gear will be fine and as others have mentioned, you'll be okay too.

Start by taking a class or two at local gyms. Edgeworks in Tacoma is a nice spot as it is a little smaller, the staff is great and there is a good variety in the pitch of the walls.


jorgegonzalez


Feb 29, 2012, 2:05 PM
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I'm old and heavy, but I have good footwork. My favorite climbs are slabs and cracks, not so much faces and overhangs. Having good technique makes all the difference in the world. Keep at it and you'll lose weight, if not from climbing, at least from hiking to the base of the climbs.


sungam


Mar 1, 2012, 1:08 AM
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Re: [nikilee93] Overweight [In reply to]
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Tubby pale climbers of the world, UNITE!




The gear will be perfectly fine for people of your weight and people much, much heavier.

If you are climbing in Washingtno I reccomend checking out Leavenworth. The climbing up iceicle canyon road is rad. Mostly bouldering, but really good features and moves on pleasant and solid granite.


Edit to add: Lose weight, though. Your climbing will benefit greatly. Both in performance and in the lower chance of finger injury.


(This post was edited by sungam on Mar 1, 2012, 1:14 AM)


overlord


Mar 1, 2012, 1:24 AM
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Re: [nikilee93] Overweight [In reply to]
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just go out and do it. the thing about climbing is, there is something for everyone. you probably wont be able to climb the hardest routes, but that doesnt mean you cannot enjoy yourself. and dont worry about the gear. it is designed to hold a car hihihi Smile


Rmsyll2


Mar 1, 2012, 7:04 PM
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http://www.mountainproject.com/v/107136725
One photo of a sort of climbing that is particularly suited to heavier people, whose greater weight increases friction on their feet.

But at 217 at 5'7" you have a BMI of 34 and are obese, with at least a decade devoted to burying yourself in blubber. Somewhere inside of what you have learned to believe is you, is a skeleton that is the beginning of what you really are. You've already distorted it and damaged all the supportive joints and stressed all the organs. Until you stop outright lying to yourself, as you have the same years invested in, you will still not know what the real you could do.

Climbing itself is just exercise, and cannot itself cause you to lose that much useless and harmful bulk. Climbing could be a measure and a cause for losing weight, which will take years and more self-control than you have ever exercised in that way. Bicycling would imo be better for losing weight, or swimming laps. I think you are still lying to yourself, the same way you got so fat, to imagine pulling all that flab up a cliff. Yes, there are people who are climbing despite some excess, but not climbing as they could if they were only what they truly are instead of all that blob.

There, sir, is a gauntlet. If you can bend enough to pick it up, and still stand up, maybe, just maybe....

.


Greggle


Mar 2, 2012, 12:29 AM
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Rmsyll2 wrote:
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/107136725
One photo of a sort of climbing that is particularly suited to heavier people, whose greater weight increases friction on their feet.

But at 217 at 5'7" you have a BMI of 34 and are obese, with at least a decade devoted to burying yourself in blubber. Somewhere inside of what you have learned to believe is you, is a skeleton that is the beginning of what you really are. You've already distorted it and damaged all the supportive joints and stressed all the organs. Until you stop outright lying to yourself, as you have the same years invested in, you will still not know what the real you could do.

Climbing itself is just exercise, and cannot itself cause you to lose that much useless and harmful bulk. Climbing could be a measure and a cause for losing weight, which will take years and more self-control than you have ever exercised in that way. Bicycling would imo be better for losing weight, or swimming laps. I think you are still lying to yourself, the same way you got so fat, to imagine pulling all that flab up a cliff. Yes, there are people who are climbing despite some excess, but not climbing as they could if they were only what they truly are instead of all that blob.

There, sir, is a gauntlet. If you can bend enough to pick it up, and still stand up, maybe, just maybe....

.

You're such a fucking twat. Kindly shut the fuck up...


saint_john


Mar 2, 2012, 5:04 AM
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sungam wrote:
Tubby pale climbers of the world, UNITE!

[image]http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/2808_10100128212602731_2041672_56313578_5638429_n.jpg[/image]


The gear will be perfectly fine for people of your weight and people much, much heavier.

If you are climbing in Washingtno I reccomend checking out Leavenworth. The climbing up iceicle canyon road is rad. Mostly bouldering, but really good features and moves on pleasant and solid granite.


Edit to add: Lose weight, though. Your climbing will benefit greatly. Both in performance and in the lower chance of finger injury.

Only in the world of climbing would those dudes be considered "tubby".


donwanadi


Mar 2, 2012, 7:20 AM
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Rmsyll2 wrote:
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/107136725
One photo of a sort of climbing that is particularly suited to heavier people, whose greater weight increases friction on their feet.

But at 217 at 5'7" you have a BMI of 34 and are obese, with at least a decade devoted to burying yourself in blubber. Somewhere inside of what you have learned to believe is you, is a skeleton that is the beginning of what you really are. You've already distorted it and damaged all the supportive joints and stressed all the organs. Until you stop outright lying to yourself, as you have the same years invested in, you will still not know what the real you could do.

Climbing itself is just exercise, and cannot itself cause you to lose that much useless and harmful bulk. Climbing could be a measure and a cause for losing weight, which will take years and more self-control than you have ever exercised in that way. Bicycling would imo be better for losing weight, or swimming laps. I think you are still lying to yourself, the same way you got so fat, to imagine pulling all that flab up a cliff. Yes, there are people who are climbing despite some excess, but not climbing as they could if they were only what they truly are instead of all that blob.

There, sir, is a gauntlet. If you can bend enough to pick it up, and still stand up, maybe, just maybe....

.

It takes at least a decade to acquire your level of douchbaggery.


bearbreeder


Mar 2, 2012, 7:42 AM
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aha !!! the top rope expert strikes again Tongue

as to the OP ... just start climbing ... try to avoid overhangs, focus on yr feet

any exercise is better than none ... i know plenty of people who have lost weight climbing ... just dont expect instant gains like most americans ... even when i was overweight and doing intense MMA 5 days a week with a diet ... it took 6 months before i saw real weight loss

it takes months-years to make up for a lifetime of neglect ...


gblauer
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Mar 2, 2012, 9:00 AM
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Be aware of not over stressing your fingers/tendons/ligaments. You can do some serious damage. Work on big juggy climbs until you lose some weight and develop some technique.


sungam


Mar 2, 2012, 9:37 AM
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saint_john wrote:
sungam wrote:
Tubby pale climbers of the world, UNITE!

[image]http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/2808_10100128212602731_2041672_56313578_5638429_n.jpg[/image]


The gear will be perfectly fine for people of your weight and people much, much heavier.

If you are climbing in Washingtno I reccomend checking out Leavenworth. The climbing up iceicle canyon road is rad. Mostly bouldering, but really good features and moves on pleasant and solid granite.


Edit to add: Lose weight, though. Your climbing will benefit greatly. Both in performance and in the lower chance of finger injury.

Only in the world of climbing would those dudes be considered "tubby".
Well, I was over 240 at the time, which is definitely tubbs for my build, Maybe this shot shows the situation better?




saint_john


Mar 2, 2012, 9:40 AM
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sungam wrote:
saint_john wrote:
sungam wrote:
Tubby pale climbers of the world, UNITE!

[image]http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/2808_10100128212602731_2041672_56313578_5638429_n.jpg[/image]


The gear will be perfectly fine for people of your weight and people much, much heavier.

If you are climbing in Washingtno I reccomend checking out Leavenworth. The climbing up iceicle canyon road is rad. Mostly bouldering, but really good features and moves on pleasant and solid granite.


Edit to add: Lose weight, though. Your climbing will benefit greatly. Both in performance and in the lower chance of finger injury.

Only in the world of climbing would those dudes be considered "tubby".
Well, I was over 240 at the time, which is definitely tubbs for my build, Maybe this shot shows the situation better?

[image]http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/4168_1152425963580_1015563931_30449305_6002822_n.jpg[/image]

Yes! It does.


chadnsc


Mar 2, 2012, 12:25 PM
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Re: [Rmsyll2] Reply: [nikilee93] [In reply to]
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Rmsyll2 wrote:
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/107136725
One photo of a sort of climbing that is particularly suited to heavier people, whose greater weight increases friction on their feet.

But at 217 at 5'7" you have a BMI of 34 and are obese, with at least a decade devoted to burying yourself in blubber. Somewhere inside of what you have learned to believe is you, is a skeleton that is the beginning of what you really are. You've already distorted it and damaged all the supportive joints and stressed all the organs. Until you stop outright lying to yourself, as you have the same years invested in, you will still not know what the real you could do.

Climbing itself is just exercise, and cannot itself cause you to lose that much useless and harmful bulk. Climbing could be a measure and a cause for losing weight, which will take years and more self-control than you have ever exercised in that way. Bicycling would imo be better for losing weight, or swimming laps. I think you are still lying to yourself, the same way you got so fat, to imagine pulling all that flab up a cliff. Yes, there are people who are climbing despite some excess, but not climbing as they could if they were only what they truly are instead of all that blob.

There, sir, is a gauntlet. If you can bend enough to pick it up, and still stand up, maybe, just maybe....

.

You are an idiot. Not to mention a a self hating fatty.


csproul


Mar 2, 2012, 1:31 PM
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Rmsyll2 wrote:
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/107136725
One photo of a sort of climbing that is particularly suited to heavier people, whose greater weight increases friction on their feet.

But at 217 at 5'7" you have a BMI of 34 and are obese, with at least a decade devoted to burying yourself in blubber. Somewhere inside of what you have learned to believe is you, is a skeleton that is the beginning of what you really are. You've already distorted it and damaged all the supportive joints and stressed all the organs. Until you stop outright lying to yourself, as you have the same years invested in, you will still not know what the real you could do.

Climbing itself is just exercise, and cannot itself cause you to lose that much useless and harmful bulk. Climbing could be a measure and a cause for losing weight, which will take years and more self-control than you have ever exercised in that way. Bicycling would imo be better for losing weight, or swimming laps. I think you are still lying to yourself, the same way you got so fat, to imagine pulling all that flab up a cliff. Yes, there are people who are climbing despite some excess, but not climbing as they could if they were only what they truly are instead of all that blob.

There, sir, is a gauntlet. If you can bend enough to pick it up, and still stand up, maybe, just maybe....

.
Interesting that you chose to link a photo of a climb that you probably have neither the ability or balls to lead.


Partner cracklover


Mar 2, 2012, 1:46 PM
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chadnsc wrote:
Rmsyll2 wrote:
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/107136725
One photo of a sort of climbing that is particularly suited to heavier people, whose greater weight increases friction on their feet.

But at 217 at 5'7" you have a BMI of 34 and are obese, with at least a decade devoted to burying yourself in blubber. Somewhere inside of what you have learned to believe is you, is a skeleton that is the beginning of what you really are. You've already distorted it and damaged all the supportive joints and stressed all the organs. Until you stop outright lying to yourself, as you have the same years invested in, you will still not know what the real you could do.

Climbing itself is just exercise, and cannot itself cause you to lose that much useless and harmful bulk. Climbing could be a measure and a cause for losing weight, which will take years and more self-control than you have ever exercised in that way. Bicycling would imo be better for losing weight, or swimming laps. I think you are still lying to yourself, the same way you got so fat, to imagine pulling all that flab up a cliff. Yes, there are people who are climbing despite some excess, but not climbing as they could if they were only what they truly are instead of all that blob.

There, sir, is a gauntlet. If you can bend enough to pick it up, and still stand up, maybe, just maybe....

.

You are an idiot. Not to mention a a self hating fatty.

Out of curiosity - Rmsyll2 - is this you?



GO


nikilee93


Mar 2, 2012, 3:14 PM
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Okay, for one. how am i lying to myself? I know I am bigger or as you say "buried in blubber" and I am working out to lose the weight and eating healthier. Two why would you say anything or reply to this post if you were just going to be an ass...
Its people like you that make me want to climb just so i can prove that i can do it...

so why don't you go crawl back in the cave you came from and stay there...


bearbreeder


Mar 2, 2012, 3:57 PM
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use anger, hatred and the darkside ...

if it gets you climbing Wink

squash that insignificant top rope loving, top rope critiquing, overly complex top rope building jedi master lke the sith climbing lord you will become Tongue

what people say on RC has little relevance ... just go out and give it a go!


nikilee93


Mar 2, 2012, 4:01 PM
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bearbreeder wrote:
use anger, hatred and the darkside ...

if it gets you climbing Wink

squash that insignificant top rope loving, top rope critiquing, overly complex top rope building jedi master lke the sith climbing lord you will become Tongue

what people say on RC has little relevance ... just go out and give it a go!
I plan on it :] And i love the star wars reference ahaha. I am excited though! I should be going to this gym down the street from my house this weekend and I can't wait to get started!!


FriscoWilderness


Mar 2, 2012, 4:06 PM
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nikilee93,
Try not to take some on this forum seriously and always research any advise you get here.


ChessRonin


Mar 8, 2012, 1:03 AM
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nikilee93 wrote:
Okay, for one. how am i lying to myself? I know I am bigger or as you say "buried in blubber" and I am working out to lose the weight and eating healthier. Two why would you say anything or reply to this post if you were just going to be an ass...
Its people like you that make me want to climb just so i can prove that i can do it...

so why don't you go crawl back in the cave you came from and stay there...

I think that it's quite possible that he intended to motivate you. "Pick up the gauntlet" is universal language for a challenge; pretty obvious.

In any case, of course the equipment is safe (as others have said). Plenty of "fit" people weigh well over 200lbs, so of course safety equipment is not designed with a sub-200lb safety limit (or sub-400lb, for that matter).

Climbing will help you to lose weight, but only if it serves to motivate you to exercise. More important than the climbing or any exercise will be your diet. If you want some help with that part (the MOST important part), let me know, and I'll point you to some good resources.

Good luck and have fun!


healyje


Mar 8, 2012, 2:11 AM
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Re: [nikilee93] Overweight [In reply to]
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You can definitely blow off Rmsyll2 for lack of tact and go with all the suggestions to just start climbing and all will be well, but the reality is at that BMI you will be inflicting damage if you were to keep it up and / or try to "keep up with the jones".

Yeah, it's a wildly un-PC deal, but the bottom line is climbing is an anti-gravity sport and a way- out-of-whack BMI is just not suitable for anything but dabbling and getting a taste of it all.

One of my old partners at 5'11" was 270lbs for a couple of decades until December 2010 when he retired. He's now 170lbs, trying to qualify for the Boston Marathon, and about to run his first Ultra in July.

You want to play and dabble, cool; you want to be serious and do this for the long haul then you'll lose the weight.


JimTitt


Mar 8, 2012, 12:18 PM
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Re: [nikilee93] Overweight [In reply to]
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Your only a bit short!
Go climbing, plenty of people out there heavier than you. I´m 6ft and did a new 2000+ ft route last month carrying a rucksack with bolting gear so 250 lbs all up. And I´m old as well, made it to 59 with this skeleton still trying to escape (it likes the beer it gets every day so doesn´t try too hard).
BMI isn´t worth a shit, my wife is specialised in growth and body development and says so. I used to easily manage "obese" when I was a professional enduro rider.


ceebo


Mar 8, 2012, 12:32 PM
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Re: [nikilee93] Overweight [In reply to]
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nikilee93 wrote:
I have been interested in rock climbing for a while now but have been really nervous to because I am overweight. I am 5'7 and weigh 217 pounds. I have been wanting to lose weight and I figured this might just be a good time to start climbing.

would there be any troubles with me climbing? Would the gear be able to hold me(I am afraid of ropes breaking and such)? Is it common for people overweight to climb? Any tips for a person who wants to begin climbing in washington state?

I remmeber a while back i was doing dead hangs. I added 30lb and my hang time was reduced by some 60 or 70% if i remember right. However.. build that hang time with the extra 30lb's to what was the original none weighted time and my none weighted time would see a huge increase as a result, as happened.

For you, gaining strength is not even needed as a target. You can go climb the most easy of climbs every single day and only work on technique. By the time you lose 30lb's.. all the extra weight you carry is exposing you to f6 kinde level endurance and strength. If you focus your technique while auto gaining the physical side from added weight.. you wqill start soaring through the grades as the weight drops off. The only limiting factor will be how fast you can learn technique to keep up with the progress.

An easy target is to start at the most easy level.. 5.6 i think for us?. For every 10lb you lose go up a level and stay their till you lose 10 more.

Slab and vert should be your main focus for first months. The extra weight could be dangerous if you are climbing too much over hangs. Their are elbo troubles and finger injurys etc to watch for. Maybe leave over hangs untill you get to f6 finde grades.


(This post was edited by ceebo on Mar 8, 2012, 12:34 PM)


ObiKate


Mar 8, 2012, 4:46 PM
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Hi! Just curious where you're heading to climb, I'm in Olympia WA, and we have a fantastic little gym here... I'm a beginner as well, hit me up if you're ever in need of a belayer near the South Sound!

Climbing is so much fun you hardly notice you're getting a full body workout (till your muscles remind you the next day :) )


Jaren


Mar 10, 2012, 9:53 AM
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Re: [nikilee93] Overweight [In reply to]
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I have a friend that is about 5'6" and well above 210. He goes climbing with us and just sticks to the easier routes. If you are looking at it as a way to get in shape then I'd look for walls with a little bit of a hike. That way you can burn off even more calories. After my wife had our baby and was trying to drop weight for races she would carry all of our gear for the added workout. (her idea, not mine) The point is. Go out and do it.


crjanow


Mar 13, 2012, 1:35 PM
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Re: [Rmsyll2] Reply: [nikilee93] [In reply to]
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Rmsyll2 wrote:
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/107136725
One photo of a sort of climbing that is particularly suited to heavier people, whose greater weight increases friction on their feet.

But at 217 at 5'7" you have a BMI of 34 and are obese, with at least a decade devoted to burying yourself in blubber. Somewhere inside of what you have learned to believe is you, is a skeleton that is the beginning of what you really are. You've already distorted it and damaged all the supportive joints and stressed all the organs. Until you stop outright lying to yourself, as you have the same years invested in, you will still not know what the real you could do.

Climbing itself is just exercise, and cannot itself cause you to lose that much useless and harmful bulk. Climbing could be a measure and a cause for losing weight, which will take years and more self-control than you have ever exercised in that way. Bicycling would imo be better for losing weight, or swimming laps. I think you are still lying to yourself, the same way you got so fat, to imagine pulling all that flab up a cliff. Yes, there are people who are climbing despite some excess, but not climbing as they could if they were only what they truly are instead of all that blob.

There, sir, is a gauntlet. If you can bend enough to pick it up, and still stand up, maybe, just maybe....

.
dont just beat around the bush what do you really think?Shocked


bearbreeder


Mar 14, 2012, 12:47 AM
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Re: [crjanow] Reply: [nikilee93] [In reply to]
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this is more hiking and mountain climbing ... but same principal applies, just go out and do it, and dont stop ...

http://www.themercury.com.au/...1_tasmania-news.html


JUST HANGING AROUND: Erin Hibberd has lost 72kg since starting rock climbing and bush walking. Picture: SAM ROSEWARNE




Mr Hibberd, before he fell in love with Tassie's wilderness.


photonicgirl


Mar 14, 2012, 5:55 AM
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Re: [nikilee93] Overweight [In reply to]
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Hi Niki,

I'm going to be completely honest with you: Climbing at your weight will not be fun for you at all. However, if your goal is to climb and lose weight, I can suggest that you begin taking yoga classes, keep a food diary, and walk. Give yourself 2000 calories per day, cut out dairy and sugar. No diet drinks! That stuff is poison. Climbing up and down is one of the most gravity impacted sports in the world, second to maybe gymnastics. Be realistic with yourself, so that you don't hate climbing later because you couldn't do it this second.

I speak from experience. Feel free to email me and we'll have you climbing as soon as you drop 60 pounds. It can be your goal.

Jules


Rudmin


Mar 14, 2012, 6:12 AM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Reply: [nikilee93] [In reply to]
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Does anyone think that climbing will cause you to lose weight though? I mean it might give you motivation because it's easier to climb when you're lighter, but I think the only real exercise I get while climbing happens on the approach. Maybe speed climbing raelly long routes could get you sweating buckets, but for the most part climbing, especially at the gym is like doing short bursts of work with lots of rest.


chadnsc


Mar 14, 2012, 8:23 AM
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photonicgirl wrote:
Hi Niki,

I'm going to be completely honest with you: Climbing at your weight will not be fun for you at all. However, if your goal is to climb and lose weight, I can suggest that you begin taking yoga classes, keep a food diary, and walk. Give yourself 2000 calories per day, cut out dairy and sugar. No diet drinks! That stuff is poison. Climbing up and down is one of the most gravity impacted sports in the world, second to maybe gymnastics. Be realistic with yourself, so that you don't hate climbing later because you couldn't do it this second.

I speak from experience. Feel free to email me and we'll have you climbing as soon as you drop 60 pounds. It can be your goal.

Jules


Be vary carful giving generalized nutrition advice. What works for you may not / will not work for the OP.


sungam


Mar 14, 2012, 8:38 AM
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photonicgirl wrote:
Hi Niki,

I'm going to be completely honest with you: Climbing at your weight will not be fun for you at all. However, if your goal is to climb and lose weight, I can suggest that you begin taking yoga classes, keep a food diary, and walk. Give yourself 2000 calories per day, cut out dairy and sugar.
Okay, some of your advice is fine. Keeping a food diary and taking excersize classes (wether they be yoga or something else) is fine.

Telling someone to eat 2000 calories is ridiculous, you have no idea what their reccomended intake is, you don't even know if they are male for female.

As for saying "cut out dairy and sugar." all I can do is facepalm. You have got to be kidding me. I really hope you don't mean they should avoid fruits. And what is wrong with dairy*?

nikilee93, if you want diet advice check out "Gold Medal Nutrition" by Glenn Cardwell. It is an excellent and well written book that will teach you about nutrition, because 3 sentences (even if they were well researched and clearly written) aren't going to give you all the answers you need/want.

JT512 also wrote a good short article on losing weight for climbing: http://jt512.dyndns.org/what_to_eat.pdf



*On second thought, please don't.


jt512


Mar 14, 2012, 8:48 AM
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chadnsc wrote:
photonicgirl wrote:
Hi Niki,

I'm going to be completely honest with you: Climbing at your weight will not be fun for you at all. However, if your goal is to climb and lose weight, I can suggest that you begin taking yoga classes, keep a food diary, and walk. Give yourself 2000 calories per day, cut out dairy and sugar. No diet drinks! That stuff is poison. Climbing up and down is one of the most gravity impacted sports in the world, second to maybe gymnastics. Be realistic with yourself, so that you don't hate climbing later because you couldn't do it this second.

I speak from experience. Feel free to email me and we'll have you climbing as soon as you drop 60 pounds. It can be your goal.

Jules


Be vary carful giving generalized nutrition advice. What works for you may not / will not work for the OP.

Especially when it is ignorant advice.

Jay


ceebo


Mar 14, 2012, 8:49 AM
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Re: [Rudmin] Reply: [nikilee93] [In reply to]
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Rudmin wrote:
Does anyone think that climbing will cause you to lose weight though? I mean it might give you motivation because it's easier to climb when you're lighter, but I think the only real exercise I get while climbing happens on the approach. Maybe speed climbing raelly long routes could get you sweating buckets, but for the most part climbing, especially at the gym is like doing short bursts of work with lots of rest.

For him, 45 min of traverse or up/down climbing slab will lose weight. Any other angle wall will most likely see him fall off from muscle failure in 5 min.

Trouble is, you have to be climbing mad in order to stomach 45 min drills.


chadnsc


Mar 14, 2012, 9:03 AM
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Re: [jt512] Overweight [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
photonicgirl wrote:
Hi Niki,

I'm going to be completely honest with you: Climbing at your weight will not be fun for you at all. However, if your goal is to climb and lose weight, I can suggest that you begin taking yoga classes, keep a food diary, and walk. Give yourself 2000 calories per day, cut out dairy and sugar. No diet drinks! That stuff is poison. Climbing up and down is one of the most gravity impacted sports in the world, second to maybe gymnastics. Be realistic with yourself, so that you don't hate climbing later because you couldn't do it this second.

I speak from experience. Feel free to email me and we'll have you climbing as soon as you drop 60 pounds. It can be your goal.

Jules


Be vary carful giving generalized nutrition advice. What works for you may not / will not work for the OP.

Especially when it is ignorant advice.

Jay


I figured I'd let someone with an actual background in nutrion tackle that on. :P


jt512


Mar 14, 2012, 9:33 AM
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photonicgirl wrote:
Hi Niki,

I'm going to be completely honest with you: Climbing at your weight will not be fun for you at all. However, if your goal is to climb and lose weight, I can suggest that you begin taking yoga classes, keep a food diary, and walk. Give yourself 2000 calories per day, cut out dairy and sugar. No diet drinks! That stuff is poison. Climbing up and down is one of the most gravity impacted sports in the world, second to maybe gymnastics. Be realistic with yourself, so that you don't hate climbing later because you couldn't do it this second.

I speak from experience. Feel free to email me and we'll have you climbing as soon as you drop 60 pounds. It can be your goal.

Jules

Prior to reading your post, I could not have imagined that such good intentions and bad advice could coexist in a single paragraph. First of all, who the fuck are you to tell someone what they will or will not find fun? Secondly, who the fuck are you to give nutrition and exercise advice? Your nutritional advice is idiotic, and your exercise advice no better than random. The only thing in your post that is entirely factual is that gravity is a force in climbing. Who knew?

Jay


TarHeelEMT


Mar 14, 2012, 10:14 AM
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jt512 wrote:
photonicgirl wrote:
Hi Niki,

I'm going to be completely honest with you: Climbing at your weight will not be fun for you at all. However, if your goal is to climb and lose weight, I can suggest that you begin taking yoga classes, keep a food diary, and walk. Give yourself 2000 calories per day, cut out dairy and sugar. No diet drinks! That stuff is poison. Climbing up and down is one of the most gravity impacted sports in the world, second to maybe gymnastics. Be realistic with yourself, so that you don't hate climbing later because you couldn't do it this second.

I speak from experience. Feel free to email me and we'll have you climbing as soon as you drop 60 pounds. It can be your goal.

Jules

Prior to reading your post, I could not have imagined that such good intentions and bad advice could coexist in a single paragraph. First of all, who the fuck are you to tell someone what they will or will not find fun? Secondly, who the fuck are you to give nutrition and exercise advice? Your nutritional advice is idiotic, and your exercise advice no better than random. The only thing in your post that is entirely factual is that gravity is a force in climbing. Who knew?

Jay

Who the heck voted this one star?


(This post was edited by TarHeelEMT on Mar 14, 2012, 10:15 AM)


sungam


Mar 14, 2012, 10:16 AM
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jt512 wrote:
photonicgirl wrote:
Hi Niki,

I'm going to be completely honest with you: Climbing at your weight will not be fun for you at all. However, if your goal is to climb and lose weight, I can suggest that you begin taking yoga classes, keep a food diary, and walk. Give yourself 2000 calories per day, cut out dairy and sugar. No diet drinks! That stuff is poison. Climbing up and down is one of the most gravity impacted sports in the world, second to maybe gymnastics. Be realistic with yourself, so that you don't hate climbing later because you couldn't do it this second.

I speak from experience. Feel free to email me and we'll have you climbing as soon as you drop 60 pounds. It can be your goal.

Jules

Prior to reading your post, I could not have imagined that such good intentions and bad advice could coexist in a single paragraph. First of all, who the fuck are you to tell someone what they will or will not find fun? Secondly, who the fuck are you to give nutrition and exercise advice? Your nutritional advice is idiotic, and your exercise advice no better than random. The only thing in your post that is entirely factual is that gravity is a force in climbing. Who knew?

Jay
And I was worried that I had worded my post too harshly ^.^


bearbreeder


Mar 14, 2012, 10:44 AM
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Re: [Rudmin] Reply: [nikilee93] [In reply to]
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Rudmin wrote:
Does anyone think that climbing will cause you to lose weight though? I mean it might give you motivation because it's easier to climb when you're lighter, but I think the only real exercise I get while climbing happens on the approach. Maybe speed climbing raelly long routes could get you sweating buckets, but for the most part climbing, especially at the gym is like doing short bursts of work with lots of rest.

ive know several people who go to the gym and have lost substantial weight ...

the problem is that like anything it takes monthsfor it to happen ... and dedication, not just a day a week

any exercise is better than none ... there are tons of people who "exercise" other ways but dont lose weight ... america would be a thinner place if it were easy


ceebo


Mar 14, 2012, 11:44 AM
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On the fun part it's more likely you who needs to stfu jay. Go put 40lb vest on.. lets factor in your ability.. go attempt some f6b's. Come tell me if you still think its fun.


chadnsc


Mar 14, 2012, 12:39 PM
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ceebo wrote:
On the fun part it's more likely you who needs to stfu jay. Go put 40lb vest on.. lets factor in your ability.. go attempt some f6b's. Come tell me if you still think its fun.


So you're saying a heavy climber can't have fun?

Or are you saying that the lighter climber will always have more fun?

You of all people should know that things in climbing are relative. For example: I bet I weigh twice what you do and I have a blast climbing!

Ironically with all your negative posts you seem unable to enjoy climbing, or anythig for that matter.


ceebo


Mar 14, 2012, 1:55 PM
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chadnsc wrote:
ceebo wrote:
On the fun part it's more likely you who needs to stfu jay. Go put 40lb vest on.. lets factor in your ability.. go attempt some f6b's. Come tell me if you still think its fun.


So you're saying a heavy climber can't have fun?

Or are you saying that the lighter climber will always have more fun?

You of all people should know that things in climbing are relative. For example: I bet I weigh twice what you do and I have a blast climbing!

Ironically with all your negative posts you seem unable to enjoy climbing, or anythig for that matter.

Most new climbers percieve getting to the top being the only goal of climbing. Next on their mind is getting to the top on the hardest route possible. Fun for most of such climbers goes hnd in hnd with the success of above. they see a fall as complete failure.. not learning point. Also.. most new climbers percieve big chunky holds on a slab climb as nothing more than a silly warm up or something for kids/noobs (they sure as hell don't wanne be noobs, right?.. or worse still climb the kids routes).

Your avg new climber will not see past the fact that the above is complete fucking nonsence.

And, even if a climber in his shoes did see past all that then their is the self consious aspect. Most people around him will be swinging off roof climbs and so on like the morons usually do.. making things look ''cool'' and easy. Their will be kids flying up things he cant even get off the ground on.. etc etc. Again.. to a climber like us we know this means NOTHING.. and that he should ignore that bolix and continue at his own level making his own great gains. Can ou say for certain a new climber can jump all the above hurdles to have ''fun''?. Also, mny instructors don;'t have fking clue just how hrd it is for such a climber.. who lso m strugle with flexbility.

And this is not negitave. The things i say come first hand from climbers i have taught. It really is not easy for them to fully enjoy climbing itself. At lest not till they let go of the newb mentalitys.


(This post was edited by ceebo on Mar 14, 2012, 2:05 PM)


redlude97


Mar 14, 2012, 2:06 PM
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ceebo wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
ceebo wrote:
On the fun part it's more likely you who needs to stfu jay. Go put 40lb vest on.. lets factor in your ability.. go attempt some f6b's. Come tell me if you still think its fun.


So you're saying a heavy climber can't have fun?

Or are you saying that the lighter climber will always have more fun?

You of all people should know that things in climbing are relative. For example: I bet I weigh twice what you do and I have a blast climbing!

Ironically with all your negative posts you seem unable to enjoy climbing, or anythig for that matter.

Most new climbers percieve getting to the top being the only goal of climbing. Next on their mind is getting to the top on the hardest route possible. Also.. most new climbers percieve big chunky holds on a slab climb as nothing more than a silly warm up or something for kids/noobs (they sure as hell don't wanne be noobs, right?.. or worse still climb the kids routes).

Your avg new climber will not see past the fact that the above is complete fucking nonsence.

And, even if a climber in his shoes did see past all that then their is the self consious aspect. Most people around him will be swinging off roof climbs and so on like the morons usually do.. making things look ''cool'' and easy. Their will be kids flying up things he cant even get off the ground on.. etc etc. Again.. to a climber like us we know this means NOTHING.. and that he should ignore that bolix and continue at his own level making his own great gains. Can ou say for certain a new climber can jump all the above hurdles to have ''fun''?. Also, mny instructors don;'t have fking clue just how hrd it is for such a climber.. who lso m strugle with flexbility.

And this is not negitave. The things i say come first hand from climbers i have taught. It really is not easy for them to fully enjoy climbing itself. At lest not till they let go of the newb mentalitys.
You are projecting your own insecurities dude. Most new climbers have lots of fun just rainbowing a wall. The thrill of being that high up in the air is enough and they don't even understand grades. Most noobs I take outside have more fun on the 5.6 they finish than the 5.9 they flailed on


ceebo


Mar 14, 2012, 2:18 PM
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redlude97 wrote:
You are projecting your own insecurities dude. Most new climbers have lots of fun just rainbowing a wall. The thrill of being that high up in the air is enough and they don't even understand grades. Most noobs I take outside have more fun on the 5.6 they finish than the 5.9 they flailed on

Bolded for irony.

Now, again.. add 40lb and go try your on sight level.

Yes.. just a small joke for jay.


photonicgirl


Mar 14, 2012, 3:40 PM
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Wow, who would have known how excited you'd get by my simple post. Remember, my post said "I speak from experience."

I was 40 lbs overweight, and a no dairy, no sugar (limited) diet of 2000 calories per day worked wonders for me, at 5'8 when I was 170. I am assuming the person we are speaking about is going to exercise, and walking is easy on the body.

My friend lost 55 pounds doing as I have shared here, no dairy, no sugar, walking 2 miles per day, but she was much shorter and she only ate about 1800 per day. It's kind of simple really. Read Dr. McDougal's book, or Dr. Mercola's website. In fact, there are many books and website written by doctors who will tell you the same thing. They will also tell you to avoid sugar, dairy and diet drinks.

Where do you think I got my information? Doctors of course! Now assuming that our newbie climber wants to get fit and climb, this is a great way to start, rather than sending her off to an "easy" wall. She may find it is not within her abilities (DUH) and then decide climbing is too hard.

I also teach yoga twice per week to women who have weight issues ... which is helping them begin to get a grip on their weight and their health.

What do you do to help overweight people? I'm curious because you have attacked me so strongly you seem to have a lot of emotion invested in this post.

Thank you ahead of time for trying to be nice in your next reply.

Jules


jt512


Mar 14, 2012, 6:19 PM
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Re: [ceebo] Overweight [In reply to]
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ceebo wrote:
On the fun part it's more likely you who needs to stfu jay. Go put 40lb vest on.. lets factor in your ability.. go attempt some f6b's. Come tell me if you still think its fun.

I know a number of overweight climbers who seem to have a lot of fun climbing. I know several who lost a lot of weight and became quite good, and a couple more who didn't lose much and still became pretty good.

You're an asshole; and coming from me, that's serious.

Jay


jt512


Mar 14, 2012, 6:43 PM
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Re: [photonicgirl] Overweight [In reply to]
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photonicgirl wrote:
Wow, who would have known how excited you'd get by my simple post. Remember, my post said "I speak from experience."

I was 40 lbs overweight, and a no dairy, no sugar (limited) diet of 2000 calories per day worked wonders for me, at 5'8 when I was 170. I am assuming the person we are speaking about is going to exercise, and walking is easy on the body.

My friend lost 55 pounds doing as I have shared here, no dairy, no sugar, walking 2 miles per day, but she was much shorter and she only ate about 1800 per day. It's kind of simple really. Read Dr. McDougal's book, or Dr. Mercola's website. In fact, there are many books and website written by doctors who will tell you the same thing. They will also tell you to avoid sugar, dairy and diet drinks.

Well, I know more about nutrition than those doctors do. And as for Dr. Mercola, I think I'll pass.

In reply to:
Where do you think I got my information? Doctors of course!

Even well-qualified doctors aren't whom you should go to for nutrition advice, never mind outright frauds like Mercola.

In reply to:
Now assuming that our newbie climber wants to get fit and climb, this is a great way to start, rather than sending her off to an "easy" wall. She may find it is not within her abilities (DUH) and then decide climbing is too hard.

Actually, telling a woman to give up dairy is horrendous advice. Women need the calcium, and there is a body of evidence that suggests that dairy products are actually slimming, although the mechanism for the effect is up in the air.

In reply to:
What do you do to help overweight people?

First of all, I do no harm, which is more than I can say for you if you advise women to stop consuming dairy products. Secondly, I suggest they follow diet advice, backed by real science, which is briefly summarized here.

In reply to:
I'm curious because you have attacked me so strongly you seem to have a lot of emotion invested in this post.

I attacked you "strongly" because you deserved it. You had the gall to inform someone that they wouldn't have fun climbing, and that they should do yoga instead. You gave nutrition advice that was partly uninformed (give up sugar, don't drink diet sodas, and consume 2000 kcal/day) and partly flat-out bad (give up dairy).

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Mar 14, 2012, 7:55 PM)


ceebo


Mar 14, 2012, 6:58 PM
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Re: [jt512] Overweight [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
ceebo wrote:
On the fun part it's more likely you who needs to stfu jay. Go put 40lb vest on.. lets factor in your ability.. go attempt some f6b's. Come tell me if you still think its fun.

I know a number of overweight climbers who seem to have a lot of fun climbing. I know several who lost a lot of weight and became quite good, and a couple more who didn't lose much and still became pretty good.

You're an asshole; and coming from me, that's serious.

Jay

Are you ever anything but seri... an asshole?.


photonicgirl


Mar 14, 2012, 8:05 PM
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Overweight [In reply to]
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Angry Dude.

I'm continually amazed at the absolute vehemence you have directed towards someone online you have never met (me). There's other posts here that say much more than mine yet you chose me to yell at online. Is it cos I'm a girl? Good Lord! Glad we don't share the cliffs.

As an aside, I cannot imagine where you get all your nutritional information (look up green leafy vegetables calcium compared to milk) and your anger is just, wow! Impressive. Serious asshole. I get it.

But that's not why I'm replying to your post. I'm replying to say goodbye. It's time for me to fly to bluer skies, friendlier folks and happier climbs. Should you wish to continue to spout off on this thread, you'll be doing it to an audience that does not include me.

Hope you find happiness someday and no longer need to be so angry. Good luck with all that Cool


jt512


Mar 14, 2012, 8:28 PM
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Re: [photonicgirl] Overweight [In reply to]
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photonicgirl wrote:
I'm continually amazed at the absolute vehemence you have directed towards someone online you have never met (me). There's other posts here that say much more than mine yet you chose me to yell at online. Is it cos I'm a girl?

First of all, I'm not "yelling at you." Secondly, it has nothing to do with whether I've met you or not. And, third, it's not because you're a girl. I'm responding to your post simply because you are wrong—in part, dangerously wrong. It's nothing personal. Like you say, I don't even know you.

In reply to:
As an aside, I cannot imagine where you get all your nutritional information...

I got it initially in graduate school, and I continue to get it from reading peer review nutrition journals.

In reply to:
(look up green leafy vegetables calcium compared to milk)

I'm aware that some green leafy vegetables are high in calcium. But you didn't recommend that the OP give up all dairy products and substitute two servings per day of kale, collard greens, turnip greens, mustard greens, etc. to make up for the calcium, did you? No. You just said to give up dairy products. And your reason for making that recommendation is that you claimed it would aid her weight loss. That's just nonsense, and the partial data we have on the subject suggests just the opposite. So you made a recommendation that would likely lead to insufficient calcium intake, and, if anything, hinder weight loss. All that, and I still managed to say that at least your intentions were good.

In reply to:
...and your anger is just, wow! Impressive. Serious asshole. I get it.

I'm not angry in the least. I'm simply saying that you're wrong. That, and you have a lot of fucking nerve telling someone whom you don't even know that they won't have fun climbing.

In reply to:
But that's not why I'm replying to your post. I'm replying to say goodbye. It's time for me to fly to bluer skies, friendlier folks and happier climbs.

Well, as they say, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Mar 14, 2012, 9:08 PM)


sungam


Mar 15, 2012, 1:13 AM
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Re: [photonicgirl] Overweight [In reply to]
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I will try to be nice, I guess. The reason we responded strongly is because you gave bad advice. Some people go through a lot of effort to learn about these kinds of things and it upsets them when they see other people who don't necessarily really understand what they are talking about giving (wrong) advice like it's the one great truth. JT seems to drill "you are wrong" into peoples heads with strong wording - I hope it works more then it seems to, because most people seem to walk away still happy in the thought that they were right to begin with.

Giving up dairy is silly. Not just a little silly, it's really silly. As Jay said especially (but not only) for women. Not only that, but it really will not help you lose weight compared to cutting out calorie intake elsewhere in your diet.

The "no sugar" thing can be fine as long as you mean proccessed/added sugar, but fruit and vegetables have sugar in them, and I really hope you aren't going to cut those out Tongue

Some people really like yoga, and that's fine. People should do whatever form of exercise they enjoy most, which for some people is yoga, for others it isn't. Personally I really don't, and I don't find it as a particularly effect weight loss exercise when compared to, say, biking or rugby.

And to finish off, I think it is great that you lost weight - but you're hardly alone in that. Plenty of users have lost weight follow sound, healthy advice given by JT512 and others on here which certainly didn't involve cutting out entire food groups.

Please don't tell your friends to cut out dairy and eat only 2000 calories a day, for many people that is too low to healthily lose weight.


sungam


Mar 15, 2012, 1:14 AM
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Yeah, I know, irony alert. ^.^


ceebo


Mar 15, 2012, 6:17 AM
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Re: [jt512] Overweight [In reply to]
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When you are wrong (and you have been) people do not jump you with a educational base ball bat. You provoke hostility to draw people into a bigger argument so you can further flex.

But you know this..


chadnsc


Mar 15, 2012, 8:00 AM
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Re: [ceebo] Overweight [In reply to]
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ceebo wrote:
When you are wrong (and you have been) people do not jump you with a educational base ball bat. You provoke hostility to draw people into a bigger argument so you can further flex.

But you know this..
ceebo,

Save us your tripe and argue with Jay via PM.


granite_grrl


Mar 15, 2012, 8:33 AM
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Re: [photonicgirl] Overweight [In reply to]
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Wow, give up dairy? Just do yoga for weight loss? WTF?

First weight loss is a very simple on the outside, burn more calories than you consume, but how to go about doing that is far more complicated. Personally I don't think it's so much about just cutting calories but more about taking in high value nutrition with a good calorie value.

For example: low fat cottage cheese. It's high in protien, has some healthy fats, complex carbs. It's the kind of food that's not supper high in calories but fills you up and gives your body good nutrition. This is a great food in terms of weight loss and yet it's completely writen off in your diet.

And to the second point....yoga has many bennefits but weight loss is a hard one to sell for me. Fat people won't typically being doing the fast pased strength bases yoga that will lead to many calories burned. Often they'll be sitting on the floor stretching. Not that this isn't a great activity, it does make the body feel good, but you'd probably burn more calories going for a walk that's the length of a yoga class than doing the yoga class itself that's of this style.


ceebo


Mar 15, 2012, 9:35 AM
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chadnsc wrote:
ceebo wrote:
When you are wrong (and you have been) people do not jump you with a educational base ball bat. You provoke hostility to draw people into a bigger argument so you can further flex.

But you know this..
ceebo,

Save us your tripe and argue with Jay via PM.

Leading by example i see.


chadnsc


Mar 15, 2012, 9:41 AM
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ceebo wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
ceebo wrote:
When you are wrong (and you have been) people do not jump you with a educational base ball bat. You provoke hostility to draw people into a bigger argument so you can further flex.

But you know this..
ceebo,

Save us your tripe and argue with Jay via PM.

Leading by example i see.

Meh


jt512


Mar 15, 2012, 12:29 PM
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Re: [chadnsc] Overweight [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
ceebo wrote:
When you are wrong (and you have been) people do not jump you with a educational base ball bat. You provoke hostility to draw people into a bigger argument so you can further flex.

But you know this..
ceebo,

Save us your tripe and argue with Jay via PM.

Oh, thanks.


jt512


Mar 15, 2012, 12:35 PM
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Re: [sungam] Overweight [In reply to]
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sungam wrote:

Giving up dairy is silly. Not just a little silly, it's really silly. As Jay said especially (but not only) for women.

That particular recommendation was worse than "silly." It was detrimental.

Jay


billcoe_


Mar 15, 2012, 12:50 PM
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Re: [nikilee93] Reply: [nikilee93] [In reply to]
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nikilee93 wrote:
Okay, for one. how am i lying to myself? I know I am bigger or as you say "buried in blubber" and I am working out to lose the weight and eating healthier. Two why would you say anything or reply to this post if you were just going to be an ass...
Its people like you that make me want to climb just so i can prove that i can do it...

so why don't you go crawl back in the cave you came from and stay there...

Hang in there buddy. Highly recommend the Zone Diet book. Couple of links to help out. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/#axzz1kqpisgNI

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...rum.cgi?post=2439667
Of particular note: read JT512s first link to his solid PDF.

Seriously, it's a matter of will. If you love climbing I know you'll do it. Ignore the losers telling you otherwise. Good luck.


shockabuku


Mar 15, 2012, 1:37 PM
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nikilee93 wrote:
I plan on it :] And i love the star wars reference ahaha. I am excited though! I should be going to this gym down the street from my house this weekend and I can't wait to get started!!

Clearly this thread is no longer about you but, did you go climbing yet? If so, did you have fun?


roguecrimson


Mar 16, 2012, 4:48 PM
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Re: [jt512] Overweight [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
photonicgirl wrote:
I'm continually amazed at the absolute vehemence you have directed towards someone online you have never met (me). There's other posts here that say much more than mine yet you chose me to yell at online. Is it cos I'm a girl?

First of all, I'm not "yelling at you." Secondly, it has nothing to do with whether I've met you or not. And, third, it's not because you're a girl. I'm responding to your post simply because you are wrong—in part, dangerously wrong. It's nothing personal. Like you say, I don't even know you.

In reply to:
As an aside, I cannot imagine where you get all your nutritional information...

I got it initially in graduate school, and I continue to get it from reading peer review nutrition journals.

In reply to:
(look up green leafy vegetables calcium compared to milk)

I'm aware that some green leafy vegetables are high in calcium. But you didn't recommend that the OP give up all dairy products and substitute two servings per day of kale, collard greens, turnip greens, mustard greens, etc. to make up for the calcium, did you? No. You just said to give up dairy products. And your reason for making that recommendation is that you claimed it would aid her weight loss. That's just nonsense, and the partial data we have on the subject suggests just the opposite. So you made a recommendation that would likely lead to insufficient calcium intake, and, if anything, hinder weight loss. All that, and I still managed to say that at least your intentions were good.

In reply to:
...and your anger is just, wow! Impressive. Serious asshole. I get it.

I'm not angry in the least. I'm simply saying that you're wrong. That, and you have a lot of fucking nerve telling someone whom you don't even know that they won't have fun climbing.

In reply to:
But that's not why I'm replying to your post. I'm replying to say goodbye. It's time for me to fly to bluer skies, friendlier folks and happier climbs.

Well, as they say, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Jay


I've read about these men who have a special affinity for big girls!

In fact they send them money to buy foods and gorge themselves.

Then they take photos, and do all sorts of things!

I've seen a girl who weighed over 200 lbs climbing.

She climbed dogleg at Jtree and her bf was extremely patient and supportive!

Let them eat Cake!


ChessRonin


Mar 18, 2012, 9:24 AM
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Re: [Rudmin] Reply: [nikilee93] [In reply to]
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Rudmin wrote:
Does anyone think that climbing will cause you to lose weight though? I mean it might give you motivation because it's easier to climb when you're lighter, but I think the only real exercise I get while climbing happens on the approach. Maybe speed climbing raelly long routes could get you sweating buckets, but for the most part climbing, especially at the gym is like doing short bursts of work with lots of rest.

Climbing burns a lot of calories. You can easily burn a thousand calories in an intense gym session. I've personally tested this numerous times using a heartrate monitor (that tracks calorie burn), so I know it to be true.


jt512


Mar 18, 2012, 11:43 AM
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Re: [ChessRonin] Reply: [nikilee93] [In reply to]
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ChessRonin wrote:
Rudmin wrote:
Does anyone think that climbing will cause you to lose weight though? I mean it might give you motivation because it's easier to climb when you're lighter, but I think the only real exercise I get while climbing happens on the approach. Maybe speed climbing raelly long routes could get you sweating buckets, but for the most part climbing, especially at the gym is like doing short bursts of work with lots of rest.

Climbing burns a lot of calories. You can easily burn a thousand calories in an intense gym session. I've personally tested this numerous times using a heartrate monitor (that tracks calorie burn), so I know it to be true.

1000 kcal? I doubt it. What exactly were you doing? At what grade? And for what duration?

Jay


ChessRonin


Mar 18, 2012, 12:07 PM
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Re: [jt512] Reply: [nikilee93] [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
ChessRonin wrote:
Rudmin wrote:
Does anyone think that climbing will cause you to lose weight though? I mean it might give you motivation because it's easier to climb when you're lighter, but I think the only real exercise I get while climbing happens on the approach. Maybe speed climbing raelly long routes could get you sweating buckets, but for the most part climbing, especially at the gym is like doing short bursts of work with lots of rest.

Climbing burns a lot of calories. You can easily burn a thousand calories in an intense gym session. I've personally tested this numerous times using a heartrate monitor (that tracks calorie burn), so I know it to be true.

1000 kcal? I doubt it. What exactly were you doing? At what grade? And for what duration?

Jay

This was a year ago, but according to some notes that I was able to locate, I averaged around 500kC for an hour long bouldering session, during which I typically bouldered superset style, meaning that I minimized rest. The grades were all sub V2.

However, I logged some route climbing sessions in the range of 70-100 minutes, during which I believe I probably climbed around 200 or more vertical feet, alternating between stuff at my limit and easier stuff(between 5.6 and 5.9+). I weighed just under 200lbs at that point.

The heartrate monitor that I was using was calibrated in the sense that I compared its results for normal cardio activites (biking, running, swimming, jumping rope, etc) with data available in established tables for the activities, and it was always quite accurate.

So while, clearly, 1000kC is not going to be a common number for a climbing session, for a male weighing over 200lbs, a long and intense session (climbing until the forearms grip no more) is going to take you to the 1000kC range.

It would be interesting to see other people's results. If anyone else here has a heartrate monitor, spend 2 hours in the gym lapping easy climbs, mixed in with some hard climbs, while tracking your calories burned, and post the results!


ChessRonin


Mar 18, 2012, 12:18 PM
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Re: [sungam] Overweight [In reply to]
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sungam wrote:
photonicgirl wrote:
Hi Niki,

I'm going to be completely honest with you: Climbing at your weight will not be fun for you at all. However, if your goal is to climb and lose weight, I can suggest that you begin taking yoga classes, keep a food diary, and walk. Give yourself 2000 calories per day, cut out dairy and sugar.
Okay, some of your advice is fine. Keeping a food diary and taking excersize classes (wether they be yoga or something else) is fine.

Telling someone to eat 2000 calories is ridiculous, you have no idea what their reccomended intake is, you don't even know if they are male for female.

As for saying "cut out dairy and sugar." all I can do is facepalm. You have got to be kidding me. I really hope you don't mean they should avoid fruits. And what is wrong with dairy*?

nikilee93, if you want diet advice check out "Gold Medal Nutrition" by Glenn Cardwell. It is an excellent and well written book that will teach you about nutrition, because 3 sentences (even if they were well researched and clearly written) aren't going to give you all the answers you need/want.

JT512 also wrote a good short article on losing weight for climbing: http://jt512.dyndns.org/what_to_eat.pdf



*On second thought, please don't.

Dairy is absolutely unnecessary in the healthy human diet. So is fruit.

I don't understand why you are flaming this woman for her relatively sound dietary advice? As long as someone is maintaining an adequate intake of vitamins and other micro and macro nutrients, they absolutely do not need dairy or sugar; in fact, many people are lactose intolerant, and cutting out dairy will improve their general GI health as well.

Also, whether the OP is male or female, keeping your net caloric intake under 2000 is a reasonable guideline for weight loss; unless the person is over 200lbs of lean muscle mass, which is obviously quite uncommon.

Edit: There are plenty of sources of calcium that are quite adequate independent of dairy products. I can't imagine how it would be "horrendous advice" to advise someone to cease their dairy consumption? Of course, every person's nutrition needs to be dealt with holistically, but there's nothing wrong with that individual practice ("giving up" dairy, as though it should be a regular part of your diet to begin with).


(This post was edited by ChessRonin on Mar 18, 2012, 12:22 PM)


jt512


Mar 18, 2012, 1:05 PM
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ChessRonin wrote:
jt512 wrote:
ChessRonin wrote:
Rudmin wrote:
Does anyone think that climbing will cause you to lose weight though? I mean it might give you motivation because it's easier to climb when you're lighter, but I think the only real exercise I get while climbing happens on the approach. Maybe speed climbing raelly long routes could get you sweating buckets, but for the most part climbing, especially at the gym is like doing short bursts of work with lots of rest.

Climbing burns a lot of calories. You can easily burn a thousand calories in an intense gym session. I've personally tested this numerous times using a heartrate monitor (that tracks calorie burn), so I know it to be true.

1000 kcal? I doubt it. What exactly were you doing? At what grade? And for what duration?

Jay

This was a year ago, but according to some notes that I was able to locate, I averaged around 500kC for an hour long bouldering session, during which I typically bouldered superset style, meaning that I minimized rest. The grades were all sub V2.

However, I logged some route climbing sessions in the range of 70-100 minutes, during which I believe I probably climbed around 200 or more vertical feet, alternating between stuff at my limit and easier stuff(between 5.6 and 5.9+). I weighed just under 200lbs at that point.

The heartrate monitor that I was using was calibrated in the sense that I compared its results for normal cardio activites (biking, running, swimming, jumping rope, etc) with data available in established tables for the activities, and it was always quite accurate.

So while, clearly, 1000kC is not going to be a common number for a climbing session, for a male weighing over 200lbs, a long and intense session (climbing until the forearms grip no more) is going to take you to the 1000kC range.

It would be interesting to see other people's results. If anyone else here has a heartrate monitor, spend 2 hours in the gym lapping easy climbs, mixed in with some hard climbs, while tracking your calories burned, and post the results!

It has been repeatedly shown that heart rate overestimates the actual energy expenditure in rock climbing,¹ so, if by your heart rate monitor, you burned 1000 kcal, then you actually burned less, although I don't know what the magnitude of the difference would be. One could probably estimate it from the literature.

Jay

¹de Geus et al. Influence of climbing style on physiological responses during indoor rock climbing on routes with the same difficulty. Eur J Appl Physiol (2006) 98:489–496.


ChessRonin


Mar 18, 2012, 1:18 PM
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jt512 wrote:
ChessRonin wrote:
jt512 wrote:
ChessRonin wrote:
Rudmin wrote:
Does anyone think that climbing will cause you to lose weight though? I mean it might give you motivation because it's easier to climb when you're lighter, but I think the only real exercise I get while climbing happens on the approach. Maybe speed climbing raelly long routes could get you sweating buckets, but for the most part climbing, especially at the gym is like doing short bursts of work with lots of rest.

Climbing burns a lot of calories. You can easily burn a thousand calories in an intense gym session. I've personally tested this numerous times using a heartrate monitor (that tracks calorie burn), so I know it to be true.

1000 kcal? I doubt it. What exactly were you doing? At what grade? And for what duration?

Jay

This was a year ago, but according to some notes that I was able to locate, I averaged around 500kC for an hour long bouldering session, during which I typically bouldered superset style, meaning that I minimized rest. The grades were all sub V2.

However, I logged some route climbing sessions in the range of 70-100 minutes, during which I believe I probably climbed around 200 or more vertical feet, alternating between stuff at my limit and easier stuff(between 5.6 and 5.9+). I weighed just under 200lbs at that point.

The heartrate monitor that I was using was calibrated in the sense that I compared its results for normal cardio activites (biking, running, swimming, jumping rope, etc) with data available in established tables for the activities, and it was always quite accurate.

So while, clearly, 1000kC is not going to be a common number for a climbing session, for a male weighing over 200lbs, a long and intense session (climbing until the forearms grip no more) is going to take you to the 1000kC range.

It would be interesting to see other people's results. If anyone else here has a heartrate monitor, spend 2 hours in the gym lapping easy climbs, mixed in with some hard climbs, while tracking your calories burned, and post the results!

It has been repeatedly shown that heart rate overestimates the actual energy expenditure in rock climbing,¹ so, if by your heart rate monitor, you burned 1000 kcal, then you actually burned less, although I don't know what the magnitude of the difference would be. One could probably estimate it from the literature.

Jay

¹de Geus et al. Influence of climbing style on physiological responses during indoor rock climbing on routes with the same difficulty. Eur J Appl Physiol (2006) 98:489–496.

Thank you for the article!

In any case, my point was that climbing can produce a substantial calorie burn (even 400kC for an hour of activity would be substantial), and that climbing, in combination with other exercise and a strategic diet, helped me to lose over 10lbs. This was in response to an assertion that climbing is not a substantial calorie burning activity, which experience tells me is wrong.


jt512


Mar 18, 2012, 1:34 PM
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ChessRonin wrote:
Dairy is absolutely unnecessary in the healthy human diet. . . .

That's true, but calcium is.

In reply to:
As long as someone is maintaining an adequate intake of vitamins and other micro and macro nutrients, they absolutely do not need dairy. . . .

That's true, too; but is difficult to consume sufficient calcium without consuming dairy or taking a calcium supplement.

In reply to:
Edit: There are plenty of sources of calcium that are quite adequate independent of dairy products. . . .

Actually, there are only a handful, and I've never met anyone who consumes enough of them to obtain optimal calcium intake.

Jay


Toast_in_the_Machine


Mar 18, 2012, 2:47 PM
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jt512 wrote:
Actually, there are only a handful, and I've never met anyone who consumes enough of them to obtain optimal calcium intake.

Jay

That is like saying you have never had a joyful conversation about nutrition with a vegetarian.


roguecrimson


Mar 18, 2012, 2:54 PM
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Actually, there are only a handful, and I've never met anyone who consumes enough of them to obtain optimal calcium intake.

Jay

That is like saying you have never had a joyful conversation about nutrition with a vegetarian.


You made me hungry !

Vegetarian Vampire Style.........


jt512


Mar 18, 2012, 4:16 PM
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Actually, there are only a handful, and I've never met anyone who consumes enough of them to obtain optimal calcium intake.

Jay

That is like saying you have never had a joyful conversation about nutrition with a vegetarian.

Huh?


sungam


Mar 18, 2012, 4:25 PM
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ChessRonin wrote:
Also, whether the OP is male or female, keeping your net caloric intake under 2000 is a reasonable guideline for weight loss
Uh, no. For a large male who is fairly active and exercises regularly <2000 calories is not enough. Saying it is is simply spewing numbers without any evidence. Why bring numbers into it when they very well may be wrong, and when they aren't needed?

As for the dairy thing, go look at the food group with the next highest calcium content. Now look at how much of it you need to consume to get your daily intake. I'll sit here and wait till you realize how wrong you were.

Yeah, 1/3 of the population is lactose intolerant, but almost all of them are aware of that and I don't think a post on the internet is going to change their mind about lactose intake.

You might have a point about their "GI health" though, because that totally exists, and all dairy products have the same GI, and it is a bad GI for your GI health.

I said it before and I will say it again; Original poster, get your nutrition advice from a sound source. As I said before Glenn Cardwell's "Gold Medal Nutrition" is excellent, but there are many others ("Racing Weight" by Matt Fitzgerald is great).

Seriously, you can listen to people bicker about this stuff on the internet all day (I am just waiting for someone to say something about "the dairy board" having the nutrition world in their pocket - there is no nutrition outside the USA) the best place to get your information is from a trustworthy source.

And seriously, what is wrong with having sugar in your diet? Too much sugar is bad, yes, but there is nothing wrong (indeed plenty of good - for example aiding muscle recovery/glycogen replacement during a rest in exercise) in having sugar as part of your diet.

So sure, there is no absolute need for taking them out of your diet, but why the fuck would you? There is definitely no need to take them out. If you're going to use pills as a main source of vitamins etc. then you are going to need a lot more information then the OP clearly has.

Do you honestly think that the OP would benefit from cutting out sugar and dairy? Seriously?

It's late, and I am pretty sure there are waayyy more brackets then there needed to be up there.


sungam


Mar 18, 2012, 4:26 PM
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Actually, there are only a handful, and I've never met anyone who consumes enough of them to obtain optimal calcium intake.

Jay

That is like saying you have never had a joyful conversation about nutrition with a vegetarian.
I seem to remember that Jay is a vegetarian.

Edit to add: I may well be wrong, though.


(This post was edited by sungam on Mar 18, 2012, 4:26 PM)


jt512


Mar 18, 2012, 4:39 PM
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sungam wrote:
Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
jt512 wrote:
Actually, there are only a handful, and I've never met anyone who consumes enough of them to obtain optimal calcium intake.

Jay

That is like saying you have never had a joyful conversation about nutrition with a vegetarian.
I seem to remember that Jay is a vegetarian.

Edit to add: I may well be wrong, though.

I'm not a vegetarian; however, I don't eat red meat. Which new data shows is a good idea.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Mar 18, 2012, 4:40 PM)


ChessRonin


Mar 18, 2012, 5:27 PM
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sungam wrote:
ChessRonin wrote:
Also, whether the OP is male or female, keeping your net caloric intake under 2000 is a reasonable guideline for weight loss
Uh, no. For a large male who is fairly active and exercises regularly <2000 calories is not enough. Saying it is is simply spewing numbers without any evidence. Why bring numbers into it when they very well may be wrong, and when they aren't needed?

As for the dairy thing, go look at the food group with the next highest calcium content. Now look at how much of it you need to consume to get your daily intake. I'll sit here and wait till you realize how wrong you were.

Yeah, 1/3 of the population is lactose intolerant, but almost all of them are aware of that and I don't think a post on the internet is going to change their mind about lactose intake.

You might have a point about their "GI health" though, because that totally exists, and all dairy products have the same GI, and it is a bad GI for your GI health.

I said it before and I will say it again; Original poster, get your nutrition advice from a sound source. As I said before Glenn Cardwell's "Gold Medal Nutrition" is excellent, but there are many others ("Racing Weight" by Matt Fitzgerald is great).

Seriously, you can listen to people bicker about this stuff on the internet all day (I am just waiting for someone to say something about "the dairy board" having the nutrition world in their pocket - there is no nutrition outside the USA) the best place to get your information is from a trustworthy source.

And seriously, what is wrong with having sugar in your diet? Too much sugar is bad, yes, but there is nothing wrong (indeed plenty of good - for example aiding muscle recovery/glycogen replacement during a rest in exercise) in having sugar as part of your diet.

So sure, there is no absolute need for taking them out of your diet, but why the fuck would you? There is definitely no need to take them out. If you're going to use pills as a main source of vitamins etc. then you are going to need a lot more information then the OP clearly has.

Do you honestly think that the OP would benefit from cutting out sugar and dairy? Seriously?

It's late, and I am pretty sure there are waayyy more brackets then there needed to be up there.


First of all, CALM DOWN; you are far too angry and aggressive in what should be a collaborative discussion.

Substantively: I said NET calories, which means that you eat more if you exercise. Net caloric intake= calories consumed minus calories burned from exercise. If you are trying to lose weight (and therefore need a caloric deficit) then sticking to under 2000 NET calories is a prefectly reasonable guideline for most of the population.


Second, I never said that sugar is categorically bad; I only said that it is not needed in the human diet. This remains true. I personally consume sugar in various forms all the time, and a healthy diet (and weight-loss plan) can include sugar, but it need not.

Lastly, while many dairy products are very low in lactose, dairy is not necessary. I personally eat Greek yogurt regularly, because it has almost no lactose, but again, it is simply not necessary. I maintain that it is easy enough to get adequate calcium without dairy; also, what is wrong with calcium and othe supplements?

Parting word: let's try to keep this civil eh? We're all friends here. =)


shotwell


Mar 18, 2012, 5:40 PM
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ChessRonin wrote:
sungam wrote:
ChessRonin wrote:
Also, whether the OP is male or female, keeping your net caloric intake under 2000 is a reasonable guideline for weight loss
Uh, no. For a large male who is fairly active and exercises regularly <2000 calories is not enough. Saying it is is simply spewing numbers without any evidence. Why bring numbers into it when they very well may be wrong, and when they aren't needed?

As for the dairy thing, go look at the food group with the next highest calcium content. Now look at how much of it you need to consume to get your daily intake. I'll sit here and wait till you realize how wrong you were.

Yeah, 1/3 of the population is lactose intolerant, but almost all of them are aware of that and I don't think a post on the internet is going to change their mind about lactose intake.

You might have a point about their "GI health" though, because that totally exists, and all dairy products have the same GI, and it is a bad GI for your GI health.

I said it before and I will say it again; Original poster, get your nutrition advice from a sound source. As I said before Glenn Cardwell's "Gold Medal Nutrition" is excellent, but there are many others ("Racing Weight" by Matt Fitzgerald is great).

Seriously, you can listen to people bicker about this stuff on the internet all day (I am just waiting for someone to say something about "the dairy board" having the nutrition world in their pocket - there is no nutrition outside the USA) the best place to get your information is from a trustworthy source.

And seriously, what is wrong with having sugar in your diet? Too much sugar is bad, yes, but there is nothing wrong (indeed plenty of good - for example aiding muscle recovery/glycogen replacement during a rest in exercise) in having sugar as part of your diet.

So sure, there is no absolute need for taking them out of your diet, but why the fuck would you? There is definitely no need to take them out. If you're going to use pills as a main source of vitamins etc. then you are going to need a lot more information then the OP clearly has.

Do you honestly think that the OP would benefit from cutting out sugar and dairy? Seriously?

It's late, and I am pretty sure there are waayyy more brackets then there needed to be up there.


First of all, CALM DOWN; you are far too angry and aggressive in what should be a collaborative discussion.

Substantively: I said NET calories, which means that you eat more if you exercise. Net caloric intake= calories consumed minus calories burned from exercise. If you are trying to lose weight (and therefore need a caloric deficit) then sticking to under 2000 NET calories is a prefectly reasonable guideline for most of the population.


Second, I never said that sugar is categorically bad; I only said that it is not needed in the human diet. This remains true. I personally consume sugar in various forms all the time, and a healthy diet (and weight-loss plan) can include sugar, but it need not.

Lastly, while many dairy products are very low in lactose, dairy is not necessary. I personally eat Greek yogurt regularly, because it has almost no lactose, but again, it is simply not necessary. I maintain that it is easy enough to get adequate calcium without dairy; also, what is wrong with calcium and othe supplements?

Parting word: let's try to keep this civil eh? We're all friends here. =)

We aren't all friends here. I've never met you, nor has anyone else. Honestly, Jay and Sungam weren't all that rough with you, especially as your advice isn't all that great. There are a ton of diets that cut out foods you "don't need" floating around out there. Just because people use them doesn't make them great.

It is cool that you have an opinion, but people are going to disagree with you. Get used to it.


ChessRonin


Mar 18, 2012, 5:52 PM
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shotwell wrote:
ChessRonin wrote:
sungam wrote:
ChessRonin wrote:
Also, whether the OP is male or female, keeping your net caloric intake under 2000 is a reasonable guideline for weight loss
Uh, no. For a large male who is fairly active and exercises regularly <2000 calories is not enough. Saying it is is simply spewing numbers without any evidence. Why bring numbers into it when they very well may be wrong, and when they aren't needed?

As for the dairy thing, go look at the food group with the next highest calcium content. Now look at how much of it you need to consume to get your daily intake. I'll sit here and wait till you realize how wrong you were.

Yeah, 1/3 of the population is lactose intolerant, but almost all of them are aware of that and I don't think a post on the internet is going to change their mind about lactose intake.

You might have a point about their "GI health" though, because that totally exists, and all dairy products have the same GI, and it is a bad GI for your GI health.

I said it before and I will say it again; Original poster, get your nutrition advice from a sound source. As I said before Glenn Cardwell's "Gold Medal Nutrition" is excellent, but there are many others ("Racing Weight" by Matt Fitzgerald is great).

Seriously, you can listen to people bicker about this stuff on the internet all day (I am just waiting for someone to say something about "the dairy board" having the nutrition world in their pocket - there is no nutrition outside the USA) the best place to get your information is from a trustworthy source.

And seriously, what is wrong with having sugar in your diet? Too much sugar is bad, yes, but there is nothing wrong (indeed plenty of good - for example aiding muscle recovery/glycogen replacement during a rest in exercise) in having sugar as part of your diet.

So sure, there is no absolute need for taking them out of your diet, but why the fuck would you? There is definitely no need to take them out. If you're going to use pills as a main source of vitamins etc. then you are going to need a lot more information then the OP clearly has.

Do you honestly think that the OP would benefit from cutting out sugar and dairy? Seriously?

It's late, and I am pretty sure there are waayyy more brackets then there needed to be up there.


First of all, CALM DOWN; you are far too angry and aggressive in what should be a collaborative discussion.

Substantively: I said NET calories, which means that you eat more if you exercise. Net caloric intake= calories consumed minus calories burned from exercise. If you are trying to lose weight (and therefore need a caloric deficit) then sticking to under 2000 NET calories is a prefectly reasonable guideline for most of the population.


Second, I never said that sugar is categorically bad; I only said that it is not needed in the human diet. This remains true. I personally consume sugar in various forms all the time, and a healthy diet (and weight-loss plan) can include sugar, but it need not.

Lastly, while many dairy products are very low in lactose, dairy is not necessary. I personally eat Greek yogurt regularly, because it has almost no lactose, but again, it is simply not necessary. I maintain that it is easy enough to get adequate calcium without dairy; also, what is wrong with calcium and othe supplements?

Parting word: let's try to keep this civil eh? We're all friends here. =)

We aren't all friends here. I've never met you, nor has anyone else. Honestly, Jay and Sungam weren't all that rough with you, especially as your advice isn't all that great. There are a ton of diets that cut out foods you "don't need" floating around out there. Just because people use them doesn't make them great.

It is cool that you have an opinion, but people are going to disagree with you. Get used to it.

Haha, well then. I'm sorry to hear that you don't like being friendly towards strangers; I always try to treat people nicely by default, and as far as I'm concerned, a forum for climbers is a friendly forum by default. Nonetheless, you shouldn't mistake my request for civil dialogue at being sore for being "treated roughly;" while someone's opinion about me in an internet forum is not my top concern, I only posted in this particular thread because I thought that I could contribute to the nutritional dialogue in a way that others might benefit. Whether I'm wrong or right (and to be clear, none of my factual statements were wrong), noone benefits from undue aggression and anger.

Substantively, my "advice" was simply a counterpoint to a criticism being rendered about someone else's advice; a criticism which I thought was a little too categorical and angry. My "advice" is simply that you do not need dairy or sugar in your diet. I was never advising anyone to cut sugar or dairy out of their diet, but simply mentioning that you do not need them in your diet. This is abundantly clear from my posts; I'm pretty sure that Jay understood what I was saying, based on his responses; I don't know if Sungam did, based on his response, but to be clear, that is what I said.

You don't have to believe what someone tells you, but you also don't need to call them names and 'yell' about how wrong you think they are; it's just unhealthy. =)


jt512


Mar 18, 2012, 6:11 PM
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ChessRonin wrote:

Substantively: I said NET calories, which means that you eat more if you exercise. Net caloric intake= calories consumed minus calories burned from exercise. If you are trying to lose weight (and therefore need a caloric deficit) then sticking to under 2000 NET calories is a prefectly reasonable guideline for most of the population.

That's utterly ludicrous.

In reply to:
Lastly, while many dairy products are very low in lactose, dairy is not necessary. I personally eat Greek yogurt regularly, because it has almost no lactose, but again, it is simply not necessary. I maintain that it is easy enough to get adequate calcium without dairy . . .

If it's so easy, then how come almost nobody does?

The adult US RDA for calcium is 1000 or 1200 mg/d, depending on age. In 2003, groundbreaking research showed that the average non-vegetarian American obtains an estimated 771 mg/d of calcium, of which 297 mg/d comes from dairy products. Based on data in that paper, assuming a normal distribution, only 25% of Americans meet even the lower standard. Pick a random American and remove the dairy products from their diet (which is basically what photongirl was doing), and the probability that they will meet even the lower RDA drops to less than 6%.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Mar 18, 2012, 6:14 PM)


ChessRonin


Mar 18, 2012, 6:36 PM
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jt512 wrote:
ChessRonin wrote:

Substantively: I said NET calories, which means that you eat more if you exercise. Net caloric intake= calories consumed minus calories burned from exercise. If you are trying to lose weight (and therefore need a caloric deficit) then sticking to under 2000 NET calories is a prefectly reasonable guideline for most of the population.

That's utterly ludicrous.

In reply to:
Lastly, while many dairy products are very low in lactose, dairy is not necessary. I personally eat Greek yogurt regularly, because it has almost no lactose, but again, it is simply not necessary. I maintain that it is easy enough to get adequate calcium without dairy . . .

If it's so easy, then how come almost nobody does?

The adult US RDA for calcium is 1000 or 1200 mg/d, depending on age. In 2003, groundbreaking research showed that the average non-vegetarian American obtains an estimated 771 mg/d of calcium, of which 297 mg/d comes from dairy products. Based on data in that paper, assuming a normal distribution, only 25% of Americans meet even the lower standard. Pick a random American and remove the dairy products from their diet (which is basically what photongirl was doing), and the probability that they will meet even the lower RDA drops to less than 6%.

Jay

What's ludicrous about the concept of net caloric intake? It's the basis of almost any modern diet.

I eat 3000 calories, I burned 1000 during exercise; my net caloric intake is 2000 for that day. If I would normally burn 2500 calories per day from my base metabolic rate and minimal activity, and I burned an excess of 1000 calories from exercise, then I burned 3500 calories that day; since I only took in 3000, I have a deficit of 500 calories, which is a healthy weight loss deficit. This is uncontested, standard stuff here; I don't see the problem?

As far as calcium, take a supplement, problem solved. Drink fortified orange juice, soy milk, or other beverages. Take two tums every day. How hard is that? If you REALLY don't want to supplement, then eat soy products and leafy greens. Tofu can have up to 600mg of calcium per cup, depending on the type of tofu, and leafy greens (depending on variety) have from around 100 to 300 mg per cup of calcium. 3 or 4 cups of any of those in a day and you are well within your calcium requirements.


jt512


Mar 18, 2012, 6:48 PM
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ChessRonin wrote:
jt512 wrote:
ChessRonin wrote:

Substantively: I said NET calories, which means that you eat more if you exercise. Net caloric intake= calories consumed minus calories burned from exercise. If you are trying to lose weight (and therefore need a caloric deficit) then sticking to under 2000 NET calories is a prefectly reasonable guideline for most of the population.

That's utterly ludicrous.

In reply to:
Lastly, while many dairy products are very low in lactose, dairy is not necessary. I personally eat Greek yogurt regularly, because it has almost no lactose, but again, it is simply not necessary. I maintain that it is easy enough to get adequate calcium without dairy . . .

If it's so easy, then how come almost nobody does?

The adult US RDA for calcium is 1000 or 1200 mg/d, depending on age. In 2003, groundbreaking research showed that the average non-vegetarian American obtains an estimated 771 mg/d of calcium, of which 297 mg/d comes from dairy products. Based on data in that paper, assuming a normal distribution, only 25% of Americans meet even the lower standard. Pick a random American and remove the dairy products from their diet (which is basically what photongirl was doing), and the probability that they will meet even the lower RDA drops to less than 6%.

Jay

What's ludicrous about the concept of net caloric intake? It's the basis of almost any modern diet.

I eat 3000 calories, I burned 1000 during exercise; my net caloric intake is 2000 for that day. If I would normally burn 2500 calories per day from my base metabolic rate and minimal activity, and I burned an excess of 1000 calories from exercise, then I burned 3500 calories that day; since I only took in 3000, I have a deficit of 500 calories, which is a healthy weight loss deficit. This is uncontested, standard stuff here; I don't see the problem?

Oh, sorry. You did write burned from exercise. I missed that. I thought you were advocating a caloric deficit of 2000 kcal/day.

In reply to:
As far as calcium, take a supplement, problem solved. Drink fortified orange juice, soy milk, or other beverages. Take two tums every day. How hard is that? If you REALLY don't want to supplement, then eat soy products and leafy greens. Tofu can have up to 600mg of calcium per cup, depending on the type of tofu, and leafy greens (depending on variety) have from around 100 to 300 mg per cup of calcium. 3 or 4 cups of any of those in a day and you are well within your calcium requirements.

I have no problem with the concept of calcium supplements, but I would recommend them for anyone who avoids dairy. Look at the data: even with dairy, few people consume enough calcium. Without dairy, far fewer will. The facts show that it is "hard" to do in practice, no matter how "easy" you make it sound in a forum post.

Jay


ChessRonin


Mar 18, 2012, 7:09 PM
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I agree that if you are not consuming dairy, you must ensure that you are getting adequate calcium from other sources.

If you are consuming dairy, you should try to keep it lean, and of the low-lactose variety if you are like the majority of humanity, who is lactose intolerant to one degree or another. There are plenty of low-fat low-lactose dairy options; my two favorites are kefir and greek yogurt; both have the added benefit of being very high in protein!

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2009-08-30-lactose-intolerance_N.htm

Naturally, any advice from an internet forum should be used as a starting point, and any potential advisee should take pains to research the advice/topic more thoroughly. Mayoclinic.com is a good first resource for anyone seeking more knowledge on how to eat a healthy diet, and consulting a nutritionist is always a good thing if you feel totally lost.


sungam


Mar 19, 2012, 1:57 AM
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Okay, what annoyed me is that the recommendation was made to cut out dairy without the adequate information needed to do so healthily. If the posts had been reasonable and said "Cut out dairy because [?????] but make sure you are still getting your RDA of calcium" then that would have been fine (except there is no reason to). But if someone blindly followed the recommendations in that post they would not have a healthy diet. That is why I didn't like the post.

Also, I think you should not use the term "net calorie intake". No one else seems to, and the term really doesn't make sense at all.


looseanchor


Mar 25, 2012, 11:34 PM
Post #92 of 92 (1282 views)
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Registered: Mar 25, 2012
Posts: 10

Re: [nikilee93] Overweight [In reply to]
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Go for it and don't look back. Good luck!


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