Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Sport Climbing:
Not reaching anchor on lead climb
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Sport Climbing

Premier Sponsor:

 


Beginner_2


Mar 14, 2012, 10:58 PM
Post #1 of 60 (13640 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 14, 2012
Posts: 1

Not reaching anchor on lead climb
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Lets say I am climbing a lead climb which has 10 bolts before reaching the anchor at the top. Lets also say that I only manage to reach bolt 6 and then its to difficult for me to continue.

How do you all usually descend from the climb if its your final climb of the day and you only reach bolt 6 out of 10, so you don't have a proper anchor? I don't want to leave a quickdraw in the 6th bolt and rappel from it, nor a sling. Also being lowered by your partner with the rope threaded through the bolt would damage the rope a bit I guess?

Is it best to attach yourself with a sling to the bolt, then pull half the rope through the bolt and rappel on the two parts of the rope (normal rappel)? This way you don't pull the rope through the bolt with any weight on it and you don't leave any gear.


redlude97


Mar 14, 2012, 11:35 PM
Post #2 of 60 (13618 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 990

Re: [Beginner_2] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

Leave a carabiner(or 2), it is payment for punting.


majid_sabet


Mar 14, 2012, 11:41 PM
Post #3 of 60 (13614 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 8360

Re: [Beginner_2] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

rap on hanger ?


Rudmin


Mar 14, 2012, 11:49 PM
Post #4 of 60 (13605 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 29, 2009
Posts: 606

Re: [Beginner_2] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

As usual Petzl has a handy infographic in their catalog:

http://www.petzl.com/...ing_Catalog-2011.pdf


healyje


Mar 15, 2012, 1:52 AM
Post #5 of 60 (13576 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4199

Re: [Beginner_2] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (7 ratings)  
Can't Post

Beginner_2 wrote:
I don't want to leave a quickdraw...


The first point - never put gear ahead of your life, ever. The second point - don't make things any more complicated than they already are or need to be. Sure, you could do some sort of Petzl-like lower-off, but as a beginner KISS should rule - just lower off the draw you fell on and leave it.

Beginner_2 wrote:
Also being lowered by your partner with the rope threaded through the bolt...

That was your one time to get to think about the concept, now please completely purge even the memory of having ever broached it.


granite_grrl


Mar 15, 2012, 4:25 AM
Post #6 of 60 (13550 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14827

Re: [Beginner_2] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

There are very few bolts you can put your rope through without destroying it. You can do it with glue-ins for exanple, but the edges on a regular hanger are just too sharp.

If you can't get to the top of a sport climb there are techniques using a stick clip that can allow you to get to the top, but these techniques are advanced and I don't feel comfortable trying to tell a new climber how to do it over the internet. If you can get out with someone with some advanced stick clip-fu you might be able to get a demonstraition.

The best option for you is to either carry a cheap bail biner and lower off the bolt using that or dismantle your draw and leave a single biner from it to lower from.


naitch


Mar 15, 2012, 4:55 AM
Post #7 of 60 (13538 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 17, 2002
Posts: 535

Re: [granite_grrl] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

Make an offering to the god of Bail (bail biner) To those who give, you shall receive (you'll get your share of bail biners in the future if you improve)


markc


Mar 15, 2012, 7:33 AM
Post #8 of 60 (13496 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2475

Re: [healyje] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

healyje wrote:
Sure, you could do some sort of Petzl-like lower-off, but as a beginner KISS should rule - just lower off the draw you fell on and leave it.

With respect, there's no reason to leave an entire quickdraw under normal circumstances. If you can't swap out your quickdraw for a cheap carabiner you're willing to sacrifice, you probably shouldn't be sport climbing, cleaning anchors, etc.

Despite the recommendation from Petzl, it's best not to use quicklinks for bailing. It makes it harder for the person cleaning up after you.

I'm generally comfortable bailing off a single biner, but you can always back up the upper bolt by leaving another carabiner on the second bolt down. If I'm calling it quits, I've usually taken a few lead falls on the bolt I'll be bailing from. I've also been hanging from it and lowered from it to the next bolt down. I consider that sufficiently tested, and clean the rest of the route. YMMV.


healyje


Mar 15, 2012, 7:42 AM
Post #9 of 60 (13488 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4199

Re: [markc] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

markc wrote:
healyje wrote:
Sure, you could do some sort of Petzl-like lower-off, but as a beginner KISS should rule - just lower off the draw you fell on and leave it.

With respect, there's no reason to leave an entire quickdraw under normal circumstances. If you can't swap out your quickdraw for a cheap carabiner you're willing to sacrifice, you probably shouldn't be sport climbing, cleaning anchors, etc.

I disagree for beginners, screwing around mid-route swapping gear isn't something they should be doing.


surfstar


Mar 15, 2012, 7:59 AM
Post #10 of 60 (13468 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 30, 2011
Posts: 206

Re: [healyje] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

healyje wrote:
markc wrote:
healyje wrote:
Sure, you could do some sort of Petzl-like lower-off, but as a beginner KISS should rule - just lower off the draw you fell on and leave it.

With respect, there's no reason to leave an entire quickdraw under normal circumstances. If you can't swap out your quickdraw for a cheap carabiner you're willing to sacrifice, you probably shouldn't be sport climbing, cleaning anchors, etc.

I disagree for beginners, screwing around mid-route swapping gear isn't something they should be doing.

If they can't get how to perform this, they shouldn't be leading.
And as markc mentioned, especially cleaning an anchor.


(This post was edited by surfstar on Mar 17, 2012, 12:03 PM)


granite_grrl


Mar 15, 2012, 7:59 AM
Post #11 of 60 (13466 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14827

Re: [healyje] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

healyje wrote:
markc wrote:
healyje wrote:
Sure, you could do some sort of Petzl-like lower-off, but as a beginner KISS should rule - just lower off the draw you fell on and leave it.

With respect, there's no reason to leave an entire quickdraw under normal circumstances. If you can't swap out your quickdraw for a cheap carabiner you're willing to sacrifice, you probably shouldn't be sport climbing, cleaning anchors, etc.

I disagree for beginners, screwing around mid-route swapping gear isn't something they should be doing.
If they can't figure out how to do this then you're right, leave a draw, but I feel that beginners need to start deveoping their skills somewhere and this isn't that crazy a skill to master.

Otherwise you might as wel tell them never to leave the gym.


surfstar


Mar 15, 2012, 8:02 AM
Post #12 of 60 (13462 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 30, 2011
Posts: 206

Re: [granite_grrl] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

granite_grrl wrote:
Otherwise you might as wel tell them never to leave the gym.

Best answer yet!

Only climb where there's permadraws = never bail on your own gear.


marc801


Mar 15, 2012, 12:17 PM
Post #13 of 60 (13345 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2762

Re: [granite_grrl] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

granite_grrl wrote:
There are very few bolts you can put your rope through without destroying it. You can do it with glue-ins for exanple, but the edges on a regular hanger are just too sharp.
Actually, with a regular bolt hanger, it will be extremely difficult if not outright impossible to lower a climber. The edges and severe bend generate a ton of friction - enough to keep the rope from moving. Hell, for that matter, it can be impossible to pull down a rappel rope threaded directly through a bolt hanger.


eric_k


Mar 15, 2012, 1:43 PM
Post #14 of 60 (13300 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 186

Re: [marc801] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (8 ratings)  
Can't Post

I often bring a small sling made of cord to rap off if I need to. The cord sling will usually only cost 1 or 2 dollars and is a lot better to rap off than most bolt hangers even some glue-ins.

Eric


shimanilami


Mar 15, 2012, 1:57 PM
Post #15 of 60 (13285 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 2043

Re: [Beginner_2] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Bail. Leave all draws in place. Then tell me where to go to retrieve my booty.


csproul


Mar 15, 2012, 2:20 PM
Post #16 of 60 (13266 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1768

Re: [eric_k] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Seriously, if you've been climbing any significant length of time, you have crappy biners that are good for virtually nothing else except bailing and/or hanging your smelly shoes from. Tying webbing/cord onto a bolt just leaves it for someone else to clean up (I know it's not that much work, but still). Bail biners come and go, eventually it evens out...pay the wages of failure.


sherpa79


Mar 15, 2012, 3:13 PM
Post #17 of 60 (13227 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 108

Re: [csproul] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

csproul wrote:
Seriously, if you've been climbing any significant length of time, you have crappy biners that are good for virtually nothing else except bailing and/or hanging your smelly shoes from. Tying webbing/cord onto a bolt just leaves it for someone else to clean up (I know it's not that much work, but still). Bail biners come and go, eventually it evens out...pay the wages of failure.

I think the point is that the OP hasn't been climbing for long enough to have biners just for their smelly shoes. Hence the question. Wink
But I'll agree that leaving a gear (carabiner, quickdraw, whatever) is the way to go. NOT tat that another climber has to clean up or remove just to clip the bolt.
Matter or fact, I think a number of bail biners/slings are a great purchase for a new leader. You can always borrow someone's draws or rack, but when learning you'll need some cheap insurance.
I always take along a little extra when climbing in a new area, just in case. It's not special technique. It's just what you do.


blueeyedclimber


Mar 16, 2012, 9:37 AM
Post #18 of 60 (13071 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602

Re: [healyje] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

healyje wrote:
markc wrote:
healyje wrote:
Sure, you could do some sort of Petzl-like lower-off, but as a beginner KISS should rule - just lower off the draw you fell on and leave it.

With respect, there's no reason to leave an entire quickdraw under normal circumstances. If you can't swap out your quickdraw for a cheap carabiner you're willing to sacrifice, you probably shouldn't be sport climbing, cleaning anchors, etc.

I disagree for beginners, screwing around mid-route swapping gear isn't something they should be doing.

With that logic, beginners shouldn't be going out on their own at all. They should have someone more experienced with them, in which case they would not have to leave any gear because someone else can clean up after them.

Cool

Josh


sp115


Mar 16, 2012, 10:39 AM
Post #19 of 60 (13048 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 515

Re: [eric_k] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

eric_k wrote:
I often bring a small sling made of cord to rap off if I need to. The cord sling will usually only cost 1 or 2 dollars and is a lot better to rap off than most bolt hangers even some glue-ins.

Eric


Really not trying to be an Interweb douche, but I don't think this is a very good idea considering how sharp some hangers can be.


marc801


Mar 16, 2012, 10:58 AM
Post #20 of 60 (13037 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2762

Re: [eric_k] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

eric_k wrote:
I often bring a small sling made of cord to rap off if I need to. The cord sling will usually only cost 1 or 2 dollars and is a lot better to rap off than most bolt hangers even some glue-ins.
And a leaver biner is even better. Please stop leaving trash on bolt hangers when you bail.


lena_chita
Moderator

Mar 16, 2012, 11:05 AM
Post #21 of 60 (13035 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 5750

Re: [eric_k] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

eric_k wrote:
I often bring a small sling made of cord to rap off if I need to. The cord sling will usually only cost 1 or 2 dollars and is a lot better to rap off than most bolt hangers even some glue-ins.

Eric


Why is it that climbers will often pay hundreds of dollars to get their gear, paying extra for the features they want, instead of getting rock-bottom-priced gear, but when it comes to bailing the difference between a $2-$3 sling and a $8-$10 'biner is considered to be a significant consideration?

Honestly, in about 9 years I had to leave a bail 'biner only twice.

I have collected more than a dozen of bail 'biners, and sometimes bail draws, over the same period of time. Most of them (and some more of the 'biners that I have bought) have been subsequently used as communal items, to be left on anchors for ease of cleaning, to replace bad 'biners on fixed draws, etc.



So yes, if you can't stick-clip your way up, carry an extra 'biner, or cannibalize one of your draws, and leave that 'biner. And consider it a (REALLY CHEAP!!!!) learning experience, as well as a community service.


markc


Mar 16, 2012, 11:37 AM
Post #22 of 60 (13003 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2475

Re: [lena_chita] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

lena_chita wrote:
eric_k wrote:
I often bring a small sling made of cord to rap off if I need to. The cord sling will usually only cost 1 or 2 dollars and is a lot better to rap off than most bolt hangers even some glue-ins.

Eric

Why is it that climbers will often pay hundreds of dollars to get their gear, paying extra for the features they want, instead of getting rock-bottom-priced gear, but when it comes to bailing the difference between a $2-$3 sling and a $8-$10 'biner is considered to be a significant consideration?

Honestly, in about 9 years I had to leave a bail 'biner only twice.

I have collected more than a dozen of bail 'biners, and sometimes bail draws, over the same period of time. Most of them (and some more of the 'biners that I have bought) have been subsequently used as communal items, to be left on anchors for ease of cleaning, to replace bad 'biners on fixed draws, etc.

So yes, if you can't stick-clip your way up, carry an extra 'biner, or cannibalize one of your draws, and leave that 'biner. And consider it a (REALLY CHEAP!!!!) learning experience, as well as a community service.

In addition, someone else in your party may be able to finish the climb, if there's easy top access you can rap or get lowered to retrieve gear, or a neighboring route may be close enough to let you recover your biner.

I'd suggest just spending $5.50 on a BD oval. Leave that sucker on your harness and you have a cheap alternative without cannibalizing a more expensive 'biner from your draw. That's probably less than you'll spend on gas getting to the crag or drinks/food afterward.


Partner cracklover


Mar 16, 2012, 1:20 PM
Post #23 of 60 (12965 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10030

Re: [blueeyedclimber] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

blueeyedclimber wrote:
healyje wrote:
markc wrote:
healyje wrote:
Sure, you could do some sort of Petzl-like lower-off, but as a beginner KISS should rule - just lower off the draw you fell on and leave it.

With respect, there's no reason to leave an entire quickdraw under normal circumstances. If you can't swap out your quickdraw for a cheap carabiner you're willing to sacrifice, you probably shouldn't be sport climbing, cleaning anchors, etc.

I disagree for beginners, screwing around mid-route swapping gear isn't something they should be doing.

With that logic, beginners shouldn't be going out on their own at all. They should have someone more experienced with them, in which case they would not have to leave any gear because someone else can clean up after them.

Cool

Josh

There's a story of a n00b wall climber, he'd been learning his aid systems, and had found his way to Yosemite Valley. Well he wanders into the Cafeteria and sees a big name wall climber. He walks right up, introduces himself, and tells the guy what an honor it is to meet him.

Then he asks for the guys opinion "What do you think I need to do to get ready for my first trip up El Cap?"

The big name wall climber explains to the noob how he should start with several grade IV routes, work his way up, do Washington Column, yada yada. The n00b looks crestfallen.

"But I'm only here for two weeks!" he says. "I heard that your first real aid climb was a new route up El Cap! So why do I need to spend all that time working up through the grades?"

"You're right," says the big name climber. "My first wall was a new route up El Cap. But the difference is that I didn't have to ask anyone any how-to before doing it."

If you have to ask how to bail, follow healyje's advice. If you don't... well then there you go, you're already all set and you know it.

GO


Partner cracklover


Mar 16, 2012, 1:23 PM
Post #24 of 60 (12958 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10030

Re: [cracklover] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

The other day, I was in exactly such a situation. I was at a climbing area that caters to n00bs. And one had gotten himself into quite a predicament. He'd "forgotten" his guidebook, and figured that all the routes were probably pretty easy, so he headed up one. When he got to the hard part (I don't know the route, but I'd estimate by looking at it that it was at least mid 5.11) he got stuck, and he and his noob partner were trying to figure out how to get him down without leaving any gear.

Well when I got to him, he had managed to clean most all of the draws except the one he was hanging on, on the sixth bolt. That one he'd connect to with a chain of draws and biners, many of which were clipped biner to biner (non-locking). He was literally flailing and flapping all around trying to figure out how to get down after unclipping from the one draw he was still on, and I asked him if he wanted help. (I had chatted with him earlier in the day). He said yes please.

I instructed him exactly as healyje did above. To do anything else would simply have invited accident. I also explained that if he really wanted his draw back, he could hike around to the top, reach down to the anchors, rig up a rappel, and get his gear, but that it would take some significant time.

IMO, that draw is a small price to pay for ignorance and arrogance.

GO


markc


Mar 16, 2012, 1:26 PM
Post #25 of 60 (12954 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2475

Re: [cracklover] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

cracklover wrote:
If you have to ask how to bail, follow healyje's advice. If you don't... well then there you go, you're already all set and you know it.

I normally respect your opinion, but that kind of logic would keep my kid in velcro shoes for the rest of his life.


eric_k


Mar 16, 2012, 2:22 PM
Post #26 of 60 (5264 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 186

Re: [markc] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

markc wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
eric_k wrote:
I often bring a small sling made of cord to rap off if I need to. The cord sling will usually only cost 1 or 2 dollars and is a lot better to rap off than most bolt hangers even some glue-ins.

Eric

Why is it that climbers will often pay hundreds of dollars to get their gear, paying extra for the features they want, instead of getting rock-bottom-priced gear, but when it comes to bailing the difference between a $2-$3 sling and a $8-$10 'biner is considered to be a significant consideration?

Honestly, in about 9 years I had to leave a bail 'biner only twice.

I have collected more than a dozen of bail 'biners, and sometimes bail draws, over the same period of time. Most of them (and some more of the 'biners that I have bought) have been subsequently used as communal items, to be left on anchors for ease of cleaning, to replace bad 'biners on fixed draws, etc.

So yes, if you can't stick-clip your way up, carry an extra 'biner, or cannibalize one of your draws, and leave that 'biner. And consider it a (REALLY CHEAP!!!!) learning experience, as well as a community service.

In addition, someone else in your party may be able to finish the climb, if there's easy top access you can rap or get lowered to retrieve gear, or a neighboring route may be close enough to let you recover your biner.

I'd suggest just spending $5.50 on a BD oval. Leave that sucker on your harness and you have a cheap alternative without cannibalizing a more expensive 'biner from your draw. That's probably less than you'll spend on gas getting to the crag or drinks/food afterward.

The masses have spoken and I stand corrected. This injustice is what people taught me to do and truth be told I only have done it twice. But never again.

Eric


Partner cracklover


Mar 16, 2012, 2:25 PM
Post #27 of 60 (5262 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10030

Re: [markc] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

markc wrote:
cracklover wrote:
If you have to ask how to bail, follow healyje's advice. If you don't... well then there you go, you're already all set and you know it.

I normally respect your opinion, but that kind of logic would keep my kid in velcro shoes for the rest of his life.

Nonsense. I lately discovered there's a way of tying a bow knot that is more secure. I now use it on my slippers, which have a way of coming undone all too often. But it's not the way I learned, nor is it the way I would teach my kid if I had one. The kid would learn the straightforward "good enough" approach. Not the one that is much trickier to learn, and if you do it wrong, won't work.

Besides when someone else's life is literally on the line, don't you take the conservative approach to helping them?

GO


Partner cracklover


Mar 16, 2012, 2:52 PM
Post #28 of 60 (5252 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10030

Re: [markc] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

markc wrote:
I normally respect your opinion

Oh, and thanks for that^^^

GLaugh


moose_droppings


Mar 16, 2012, 4:55 PM
Post #29 of 60 (5238 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 7, 2005
Posts: 3356

Re: [eric_k] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

eric_k wrote:

The masses have spoken and I stand corrected. This injustice is what people taught me to do and truth be told I only have done it twice. But never again.

Eric

What a refreshing attitude.
You rock dude.


vinnie83


Mar 16, 2012, 10:49 PM
Post #30 of 60 (5207 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2004
Posts: 111

Re: [moose_droppings] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Since no one else has mentioned it yet, if you have some extra webbing and are less than 1/3 of a rope length off the ground you can bail without leaving anything on the route, but you should probably throw away the $1.50 worth of webbing that you just pulled the rope through.

Having said that I usually bring one of the countless leaver biners I have collected over the years with me when I plan on doing hard sport climbing as it is much easier and it doesn't cost me anything.


ceebo


Mar 17, 2012, 9:19 AM
Post #31 of 60 (5172 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 862

Re: [vinnie83] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Sorry but i have to say it.. DOWN CLIMB???. But ofc, every bail is from a severely overhanging dynamic route where you are enforced not to weight rope and rest at every bolt. Its against ethics.


healyje


Mar 17, 2012, 9:35 AM
Post #32 of 60 (5164 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4199

Re: [markc] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

markc wrote:
cracklover wrote:
If you have to ask how to bail, follow healyje's advice. If you don't... well then there you go, you're already all set and you know it.

I normally respect your opinion, but that kind of logic would keep my kid in velcro shoes for the rest of his life.

And how long did he climb with you before you cut him loose to figure out things on his own?


bigo


Mar 17, 2012, 9:51 AM
Post #33 of 60 (5153 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 11, 2002
Posts: 237

Re: [Beginner_2] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Leave a biner and lower. There is no good reason to leave an entire draw. Eventually you will take as many bail biners as you leave.

Some people will leave hardware store quicklink in an effort to save a buck - don't do this - it makes it a PITA for the next climber(s) who have to deal with the often welded shut quiclink.

All the other texas rope trick sling methods are more effort than they are worth.


healyje


Mar 17, 2012, 12:21 PM
Post #34 of 60 (5135 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4199

Re: [bigo] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (7 ratings)  
Can't Post

bigo wrote:
Leave a biner and lower. There is no good reason to leave an entire draw.

There is a good reason and that reason is a beginner shouldn't be screwing around trying swap gear and the rope, it just opens the door to bad things happening. Let a more experienced partner go up and do it.

If there's one thing I know after this many years of climbing is there are a remarkably endless number of ways to screw up the simplest thing - beginners shouldn't tempt fate no matter how trivial the operation may seem on the surface.


vinnie83


Mar 17, 2012, 1:32 PM
Post #35 of 60 (5119 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 27, 2004
Posts: 111

Re: [healyje] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

healyje wrote:
bigo wrote:
Leave a biner and lower. There is no good reason to leave an entire draw.

There is a good reason and that reason is a beginner shouldn't be screwing around trying swap gear and the rope, it just opens the door to bad things happening. Let a more experienced partner go up and do it.

If there's one thing I know after this many years of climbing is there are a remarkably endless number of ways to screw up the simplest thing - beginners shouldn't tempt fate no matter how trivial the operation may seem on the surface.

What do you define as a beginner? What should and shouldn't a beginner be doing?

I would consider being able to clean an anchor and set up for a lower or rappel a required skill before someone starts leading. This is much more complicated and has more serious consequences than switching out a biner for a quickdraw.

If you screw up switching out a biner you're probably looking at about the same fall as if you were to blow a clip on lead. How bad this is really depends on the route, but it is still relatively simple if you can tie your own knot, lead a sport route, clip into the anchors, and clean the route.


bigo


Mar 17, 2012, 1:49 PM
Post #36 of 60 (5109 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 11, 2002
Posts: 237

Re: [healyje] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

healyje wrote:
bigo wrote:
Leave a biner and lower. There is no good reason to leave an entire draw.

There is a good reason and that reason is a beginner shouldn't be screwing around trying swap gear and the rope, it just opens the door to bad things happening. Let a more experienced partner go up and do it.

If there's one thing I know after this many years of climbing is there are a remarkably endless number of ways to screw up the simplest thing - beginners shouldn't tempt fate no matter how trivial the operation may seem on the surface.

You of course are entitled to your opinion, but I thought you did not sport climb? The times I have been to beacon rock, the perma gumby to climber ratio seemed a little high. Perhaps you have a skewed opinion.

I would argue anyone that is leading a route should have enough climbing experience to clip a biner. I am sure there are people who can 'screw up even the simplest task', but I do not see that as a reason to provide overly conservative advice. To say the standard for bailing off a sport route for beginners is to leave an entire draw is a bit dramatic IMO.

How do you recommend a beginning leader cleans a route? What operations should a beginner do? When is a beginner not a beginner any longer?


edit to say I see vinnie essentially beat me to my own post... :)


(This post was edited by bigo on Mar 17, 2012, 1:52 PM)


healyje


Mar 17, 2012, 2:19 PM
Post #37 of 60 (5097 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4199

Re: [bigo] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

bigo wrote:
When is a beginner not a beginner any longer?)

When they've been brought along appropriately by someone who knows what they're doing.

You guys can squawk all you want, but the number of accidents in climbing these days speaks for itself that people regularly get out ahead of themselves.


(This post was edited by healyje on Mar 17, 2012, 2:20 PM)


jt512


Mar 17, 2012, 6:00 PM
Post #38 of 60 (5064 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21892

Re: [healyje] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

At my crags, I prefer it when beginners leave two draws—you know, so they're backed up.

Jay


markc


Mar 17, 2012, 8:28 PM
Post #39 of 60 (5036 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2475

Re: [healyje] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

healyje wrote:
markc wrote:
cracklover wrote:
If you have to ask how to bail, follow healyje's advice. If you don't... well then there you go, you're already all set and you know it.

I normally respect your opinion, but that kind of logic would keep my kid in velcro shoes for the rest of his life.

And how long did he climb with you before you cut him loose to figure out things on his own?

Well, he's still in velcro shoes and I still tie him in when he climbs. He's only 5.

My point was that Gabe's post made it sound like having to ask the question is a bad thing. Waiting until you're mid-pitch, as happened in his story, is scary as hell. In that case, defusing the situation and having the guy lower off a draw sounds like the best alternative. Having someone ask in advance so he's not going off half-cocked and trying to figure things out on his own is good.

When you're discussing leading and cleaning anchors with someone, that's the time to go over strategies for bailing. I think swapping out a biner for a draw is pretty straight-forward, and can be demonstrated with little risk. It's not some convoluted practice like the Texas rope trick, which I wouldn't generally show to someone just learning to lead. That said, people need to make their own evaluation and leave what they're comfortable with.


Partner cracklover


Mar 19, 2012, 7:58 AM
Post #40 of 60 (4952 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10030

Re: [markc] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

markc wrote:
healyje wrote:
markc wrote:
cracklover wrote:
If you have to ask how to bail, follow healyje's advice. If you don't... well then there you go, you're already all set and you know it.

I normally respect your opinion, but that kind of logic would keep my kid in velcro shoes for the rest of his life.

And how long did he climb with you before you cut him loose to figure out things on his own?

Well, he's still in velcro shoes and I still tie him in when he climbs. He's only 5.

My point was that Gabe's post made it sound like having to ask the question is a bad thing. Waiting until you're mid-pitch, as happened in his story, is scary as hell. In that case, defusing the situation and having the guy lower off a draw sounds like the best alternative. Having someone ask in advance so he's not going off half-cocked and trying to figure things out on his own is good.

When you're discussing leading and cleaning anchors with someone, that's the time to go over strategies for bailing. I think swapping out a biner for a draw is pretty straight-forward, and can be demonstrated with little risk. It's not some convoluted practice like the Texas rope trick, which I wouldn't generally show to someone just learning to lead. That said, people need to make their own evaluation and leave what they're comfortable with.

Well, I do agree with the masses that for a competent climber, biner or draw - it makes no difference. If you can clip one to a bolt, you can clip the other. But if you can't figure out how to switch from one to the other (I'm not saying this is the case for the OP - I'm just speaking hypothetically), then there are issues going on that make it impossible to get that across over the internet.

Essentially, I think trying to give advice over a message board is about as likely to be successful as giving it to a climber mid-climb. Which is to say - depending on the abilities of the two parties (the one on the ground and the one on the rock, or the one asking online and the one answering) it could work out great, or be a disaster.

There's nothing wrong with asking, but without knowing the competency of the person on the other end in this situation, and only having the data of what he's asked here, my default position is to give the most conservative answer.

When your son is ready to learn to tie his own shoes, I trust you will sit down with him, and help walk him through all the options. Here's a good place to start: http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/tying.htm

GTongue


markc


Mar 20, 2012, 9:11 AM
Post #41 of 60 (4873 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2475

Re: [cracklover] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Thanks for the discussion and the link. I may well learn something new myself!


jorgegonzalez


Mar 20, 2012, 1:55 PM
Post #42 of 60 (4826 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 17, 2005
Posts: 140

Re: [markc] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I am surprised no one has counseled the OP that if he is that green, he should stick to climbs within his limit, get better on them, and after he gets enough experience and knowledge that he doesn't need to pose these basic questions on RC, he can move up to more challenging climbs., and maybe, get himself into a predicament he now is able to extricate himself from without hurting himself or endangering others.


ceebo


Mar 20, 2012, 4:00 PM
Post #43 of 60 (4796 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 862

Re: [jorgegonzalez] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jorgegonzalez wrote:
I am surprised no one has counseled the OP that if he is that green, he should stick to climbs within his limit, get better on them, and after he gets enough experience and knowledge that he doesn't need to pose these basic questions on RC, he can move up to more challenging climbs., and maybe, get himself into a predicament he now is able to extricate himself from without hurting himself or endangering others.

Why would you put somebody down who is trying to learn?, maybe becuase you were to buisy flexing pro ethics to realise it?. He opend with ''lets say i''.. as opposed to ''the other day i got stuck on the wall yall''.

And how do you go about learning basic knowledge withought asking basic questions?.

Kinde sure indoor inductions (at least in the uk) do not cover how to bail a sport route. This is more a failure on the ''professionals'' than the noobs, don't you think?.


(This post was edited by ceebo on Mar 20, 2012, 4:07 PM)


jorgegonzalez


Mar 20, 2012, 8:24 PM
Post #44 of 60 (4776 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 17, 2005
Posts: 140

Re: [ceebo] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

I am not putting him down, I am counseling that people should not try to take on climbs that are too hard for themselves because it can have disastrous consequences.

Sport climbers often push themselves to do hard climbs when they are not ready, they call it "gradeism" or "chasing the numbers." The problem is not that one tries to get better, its that they try climbs that are too hard for themselves because they are cowing to peer pressure. That in and of itself can be dangerous.

I'm not trying to be a blowhard, my best years are behind me. Instead, I feel it is important to make sure younger, less experienced climbers develop as well rounded, safe climbers. to do that, one has to put in the mileage and not bite off more than they can chew.


JimTitt


Mar 21, 2012, 1:01 AM
Post #45 of 60 (4749 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 7, 2008
Posts: 980

Re: [ceebo] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ceebo wrote:
jorgegonzalez wrote:
I am surprised no one has counseled the OP that if he is that green, he should stick to climbs within his limit, get better on them, and after he gets enough experience and knowledge that he doesn't need to pose these basic questions on RC, he can move up to more challenging climbs., and maybe, get himself into a predicament he now is able to extricate himself from without hurting himself or endangering others.

Why would you put somebody down who is trying to learn?, maybe becuase you were to buisy flexing pro ethics to realise it?. He opend with ''lets say i''.. as opposed to ''the other day i got stuck on the wall yall''.

And how do you go about learning basic knowledge withought asking basic questions?.

Kinde sure indoor inductions (at least in the uk) do not cover how to bail a sport route. This is more a failure on the ''professionals'' than the noobs, don't you think?.

You are correct for the UK, this is a suprising omission in in the syllabus in some ways but may reflect that in an indoor situation the need to bail off a route is unlikely, or at least retrieving a draw relatively painless.
For outdoor leading instruction the syllabus doesn´t ever mention sport climbing and is trad based so somewhere in between our sport noob is left in ignorance!


smr21


Mar 21, 2012, 3:20 AM
Post #46 of 60 (4738 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 20, 2004
Posts: 6

Re: [granite_grrl] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

granite_grrl wrote:
There are very few bolts you can put your rope through without destroying it. You can do it with glue-ins for exanple, but the edges on a regular hanger are just too sharp.

It sounds as though you are saying it is OK to lower directly off a glue in. Please tell me you don't believe this.
That will do nothing but wear out the bolt, eventually making it unsafe to use. I'm sure you've been climbing long enough to witness the effect that repeated lowerings off of anchors has on the hardware.
Once a glue in has been worn down, it will need to be replaced. It is much more work intensive to replace a glue in than a conventional expansion bolt.

Do Not Lower Directly Off A Glue In Bolt! Use a bail biner.


granite_grrl


Mar 21, 2012, 4:37 AM
Post #47 of 60 (4732 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14827

Re: [smr21] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

smr21 wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
There are very few bolts you can put your rope through without destroying it. You can do it with glue-ins for exanple, but the edges on a regular hanger are just too sharp.

It sounds as though you are saying it is OK to lower directly off a glue in. Please tell me you don't believe this.
That will do nothing but wear out the bolt, eventually making it unsafe to use. I'm sure you've been climbing long enough to witness the effect that repeated lowerings off of anchors has on the hardware.
Once a glue in has been worn down, it will need to be replaced. It is much more work intensive to replace a glue in than a conventional expansion bolt.

Do Not Lower Directly Off A Glue In Bolt! Use a bail biner.

While I admit that what I wrote is a little ambiguous I never said anything about LOWERING. If someone decided they needed to bail on a glue in I would hope and expect they would rap.


ceebo


Mar 21, 2012, 8:08 AM
Post #48 of 60 (4703 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 8, 2009
Posts: 862

Re: [JimTitt] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

JimTitt wrote:
ceebo wrote:
jorgegonzalez wrote:
I am surprised no one has counseled the OP that if he is that green, he should stick to climbs within his limit, get better on them, and after he gets enough experience and knowledge that he doesn't need to pose these basic questions on RC, he can move up to more challenging climbs., and maybe, get himself into a predicament he now is able to extricate himself from without hurting himself or endangering others.

Why would you put somebody down who is trying to learn?, maybe becuase you were to buisy flexing pro ethics to realise it?. He opend with ''lets say i''.. as opposed to ''the other day i got stuck on the wall yall''.

And how do you go about learning basic knowledge withought asking basic questions?.

Kinde sure indoor inductions (at least in the uk) do not cover how to bail a sport route. This is more a failure on the ''professionals'' than the noobs, don't you think?.

You are correct for the UK, this is a suprising omission in in the syllabus in some ways but may reflect that in an indoor situation the need to bail off a route is unlikely, or at least retrieving a draw relatively painless.
For outdoor leading instruction the syllabus doesn´t ever mention sport climbing and is trad based so somewhere in between our sport noob is left in ignorance!

Maybe a result of how inherently, stubern, conservitave and old fashioned in style the uk climbing culture is?. The leader should never fall anyay, right? Unsure.

On the bigger picture, the lack of bolted routes in our country ontop of the rediculess trad ethics probably explains why the avg ability of a uk climber is horendesly low. That could be a reflcetion of how hard it would be to push into pro level climbing in this country. Thos who did do it.. lived next door to the few hot spots we do have (or made them hot spots). But even those climbers on the grand scale.. they are still leap years away from the level of climbers that are coming out of America, France, Spain and so on.

Dunno why i posted that, felt like talking.


bearbreeder


Mar 21, 2012, 9:17 AM
Post #49 of 60 (4680 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 1, 2009
Posts: 1960

Re: [jorgegonzalez] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

one thing to note is that "harder" climbs can be "safer" than easier climbs if they are more overhanging or have less protruding features

IMO the OP should get someone to show him how to do it in person, and not off the intrawebs ....


JimTitt


Mar 21, 2012, 10:33 AM
Post #50 of 60 (4659 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 7, 2008
Posts: 980

Re: [ceebo] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ceebo wrote:
JimTitt wrote:
ceebo wrote:
jorgegonzalez wrote:
I am surprised no one has counseled the OP that if he is that green, he should stick to climbs within his limit, get better on them, and after he gets enough experience and knowledge that he doesn't need to pose these basic questions on RC, he can move up to more challenging climbs., and maybe, get himself into a predicament he now is able to extricate himself from without hurting himself or endangering others.

Why would you put somebody down who is trying to learn?, maybe becuase you were to buisy flexing pro ethics to realise it?. He opend with ''lets say i''.. as opposed to ''the other day i got stuck on the wall yall''.

And how do you go about learning basic knowledge withought asking basic questions?.

Kinde sure indoor inductions (at least in the uk) do not cover how to bail a sport route. This is more a failure on the ''professionals'' than the noobs, don't you think?.

You are correct for the UK, this is a suprising omission in in the syllabus in some ways but may reflect that in an indoor situation the need to bail off a route is unlikely, or at least retrieving a draw relatively painless.
For outdoor leading instruction the syllabus doesn´t ever mention sport climbing and is trad based so somewhere in between our sport noob is left in ignorance!

Maybe a result of how inherently, stubern, conservitave and old fashioned in style the uk climbing culture is?. The leader should never fall anyay, right? Unsure.

On the bigger picture, the lack of bolted routes in our country ontop of the rediculess trad ethics probably explains why the avg ability of a uk climber is horendesly low. That could be a reflcetion of how hard it would be to push into pro level climbing in this country. Thos who did do it.. lived next door to the few hot spots we do have (or made them hot spots). But even those climbers on the grand scale.. they are still leap years away from the level of climbers that are coming out of America, France, Spain and so on.

Dunno why i posted that, felt like talking.

I was thinking much the same as I wrote, the ethic is still get to the summit in good style not do the moves. Even though I haven´t lived in the UK for 25 years I still only really the onsight and failure is failure, not working the route! Living in the Frankenjura this is a slight handicap since everybodies dog appears to be able to climb better than me but I just like walking up to a route, climbing it and then a beer or three!


Partner drector


Mar 21, 2012, 12:18 PM
Post #51 of 60 (2401 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 1037

Re: [jorgegonzalez] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

jorgegonzalez wrote:
I am not putting him down, I am counseling that people should not try to take on climbs that are too hard for themselves because it can have disastrous consequences.

It is interesting that a lot of legendary climbers who did legendary climbs did so without really knowing if the climb was too hard or not. They had adventure and went for it. Discouraging people from taking risks is discouraging them from having adventures.

I once taught a guy on a route next to mine how to rap using a figure-8. I didn't fault him for his lack of knowledge.

Dave


bearbreeder


Mar 21, 2012, 12:43 PM
Post #52 of 60 (2392 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 1, 2009
Posts: 1960

Re: [drector] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

i think the flipside is that they lived through it ...

in ancient rome the great orator cicero once saw a mosaic that showed people on a sinking ship who prayed, and subsequently lived ...

he then asked "what about those who prayed and died?"

survivors tell the tales ...Wink


marc801


Mar 21, 2012, 1:01 PM
Post #53 of 60 (2379 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2762

Re: [drector] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

drector wrote:
jorgegonzalez wrote:
I am not putting him down, I am counseling that people should not try to take on climbs that are too hard for themselves because it can have disastrous consequences.

It is interesting that a lot of legendary climbers who did legendary climbs did so without really knowing if the climb was too hard or not. They had adventure and went for it. Discouraging people from taking risks is discouraging them from having adventures.
The key point you're missing is that those climbers had survived their apprenticeship and had progressed to a significant level of expertise. In this thread we've talking about someone that is still fairly inexperienced. Asking and seeking knowledge is totally fine - suggesting he go an have an adventure, at this point in his knowledge base, borders on being irresponsible.


jdensign5


Aug 20, 2012, 2:33 PM
Post #54 of 60 (2024 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 31, 2012
Posts: 38

Re: [cracklover] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

cracklover wrote:

There's a story of a n00b wall climber, he'd been learning his aid systems, and had found his way to Yosemite Valley. Well he wanders into the Cafeteria and sees a big name wall climber. He walks right up, introduces himself, and tells the guy what an honor it is to meet him.

Then he asks for the guys opinion "What do you think I need to do to get ready for my first trip up El Cap?"

The big name wall climber explains to the noob how he should start with several grade IV routes, work his way up, do Washington Column, yada yada. The n00b looks crestfallen.

"But I'm only here for two weeks!" he says. "I heard that your first real aid climb was a new route up El Cap! So why do I need to spend all that time working up through the grades?"

"You're right," says the big name climber. "My first wall was a new route up El Cap. But the difference is that I didn't have to ask anyone any how-to before doing it."

If you have to ask how to bail, follow healyje's advice. If you don't... well then there you go, you're already all set and you know it.

GO

Love, love, freakin' love it! Great story.


(This post was edited by jdensign5 on Aug 20, 2012, 2:35 PM)


jdensign5


Aug 20, 2012, 2:42 PM
Post #55 of 60 (2018 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 31, 2012
Posts: 38

Re: [marc801] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

marc801 wrote:
drector wrote:
jorgegonzalez wrote:
I am not putting him down, I am counseling that people should not try to take on climbs that are too hard for themselves because it can have disastrous consequences.

It is interesting that a lot of legendary climbers who did legendary climbs did so without really knowing if the climb was too hard or not. They had adventure and went for it. Discouraging people from taking risks is discouraging them from having adventures.
The key point you're missing is that those climbers had survived their apprenticeship and had progressed to a significant level of expertise. In this thread we've talking about someone that is still fairly inexperienced. Asking and seeking knowledge is totally fine - suggesting he go an have an adventure, at this point in his knowledge base, borders on being irresponsible.

I agree.
I don't think it is ONLY inexperience that makes it irresponsible to try the unknown. I am an advocate of trying new things. I think a beginner can trythe unknown but if they lack critical thinking, and lack of basic knowledge (like going online to ask basic questions they should be able to figure out), those are the ones in trouble.


fusionbjj


Jan 29, 2013, 2:16 PM
Post #56 of 60 (1721 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 23, 2010
Posts: 5

Re: [jdensign5] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

It's a bit hard to explain, but there is a way to retreat from a sport climb that is safe and leaves nothing behind. We always called it "the sling trick".

It allows you to rap off your rope for a maximum length of 1/3 whatever the total rope length is.

You clip into the bolt. Then thread a sling through the bolt and pull the rope through it and lower one end until it just reaches the ground. Then you untie the rope from yourself and tie the end to one side of the threaded sling.

What you end up with is a rope with 3 strands. 2 of them are through the sling and the last is non weight bearing and tied to the sling itself. You then rappel off the 2 weight bearing strands.

When you get to the ground, you then pull the middle strand so the free end rises up and passes back through the sling. Then you can pull the whole rig down.

You must take precautions not to pull the wrong strand, else you end up with the sling girth hitched to the bolt with the rope still tied on. Likewise, you must make sure the sewn section of the sling (or the knot, in the case of old school tied slings) is on the proper side of the bolt, else it could get stuck that way.

I used this method many times as a newb, because the idea of leaving anything behind just seemed like insult to injury. Eventually, my ego subsidded and I switched to what is most certainly the best way to deal with the situation: Just leave a bail biner.


sbaclimber


Jan 31, 2013, 3:36 AM
Post #57 of 60 (1673 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 3082

Re: [fusionbjj] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

fusionbjj wrote:
It's a bit hard to explain, but there is a way to retreat from a sport climb that is safe and leaves nothing behind. We always called it "the sling trick".
Everyone else calls it the "Texas Rope Trick"... Wink


EdBustamante


Jan 31, 2013, 3:57 AM
Post #58 of 60 (1670 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 6, 2012
Posts: 19

Re: [Beginner_2] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

most climbers i know carry bail gear webbing rap rings lockinng caribiners .back up the lat bolt and rap out.
In reply to:


donnie


Jan 31, 2013, 8:44 AM
Post #59 of 60 (1635 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 13

Re: [Beginner_2] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

buy a cheap biner and leave it on your harness for these situations. if you feel you are pooping out and cant climb on, place the biner instead of a draw and leave it. you'll booty other peoples' biners in the future, it all works out. if you already placed a draw and climbed past it, then gassed out, you can either lower off and leave the draw, or down climb and try swapping the draw for the bail biner. if youre already that spent that you cant climb to the next bolt to place a bail biner, youre probably gonna be too gassed to swap a draw for a biner and with the mental aspect of a longer fall if you blow it, its just easier and less scary to leave the draw. simple. done. no mucking about trying to unclip a draw to replace it with a biner while gripped and freaking out worrying about falling. it happens, dont worry about it. they make draws and cheap biners everyday, you can get a replacement.


(This post was edited by donnie on Jan 31, 2013, 8:48 AM)


redlude97


Jan 31, 2013, 9:20 AM
Post #60 of 60 (1626 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 990

Re: [EdBustamante] Not reaching anchor on lead climb [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

EdBustamante wrote:
most climbers i know carry bail gear webbing rap rings lockinng caribiners .back up the lat bolt and rap out.
The people you know are gumbies.


(This post was edited by redlude97 on Jan 31, 2013, 9:20 AM)


Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Sport Climbing

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook