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sp115
Apr 19, 2012, 9:52 AM
Post #26 of 39
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majid_sabet wrote: if you are going to use draws, both master biner and top biners must be the exact same kind otherwise, forces on one side is greater due to mismatch biner length. not a biggy in TR but, it can be a problem on lead anchor.
Not important on lead either, in my opinion. Any movement of the anchor point from the exact angle where the lode is equally distributed negates the matched carabiner alignment concern.
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majid_sabet
Apr 19, 2012, 11:39 AM
Post #27 of 39
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sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: if you are going to use draws, both master biner and top biners must be the exact same kind otherwise, forces on one side is greater due to mismatch biner length. not a biggy in TR but, it can be a problem on lead anchor. Not important on lead either, in my opinion. Any movement of the anchor point from the exact angle where the lode is equally distributed negates the matched carabiner alignment concern.
not important till someone dies then experts are all over it with their scientific data.
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marc801
Apr 19, 2012, 12:31 PM
Post #28 of 39
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dindolino32 wrote: welcome to RC.com! People dont intend to help you, they just wreck whatever you say.
The other issue are the beginners who are aggressively ignorant - the ones who ask a question then get all butthurt when a bunch of more experienced climbers give answers that are the opposite of what the beginner thought. Kindness towards that attitude is short lived.
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sp115
Apr 19, 2012, 2:32 PM
Post #29 of 39
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majid_sabet wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: if you are going to use draws, both master biner and top biners must be the exact same kind otherwise, forces on one side is greater due to mismatch biner length. not a biggy in TR but, it can be a problem on lead anchor. Not important on lead either, in my opinion. Any movement of the anchor point from the exact angle where the lode is equally distributed negates the matched carabiner alignment concern. not important till someone dies then experts are all over it with their scientific data.
I have no idea if you now agree with me or not. But my point was that if I were to come across a solid, two-bolt anchor I would happily clip a draw to each bolt and attach myself to it with a length of the climbing rope. Minute equalization via carabiner size would be of no consequence.
What does disturb me is the misspelling of "load".
(This post was edited by sp115 on Apr 19, 2012, 2:34 PM)
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bandycoot
Apr 19, 2012, 3:13 PM
Post #30 of 39
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Your anchor is too convoluted. If I saw that, I would not climb on it because it signals to me that you lack critical thinking skills and/or knowledge with regards to building anchors. It's probably safe, but I'm not sure I would describe it as "correct." If I were you, I would try to learn more from experienced climbers before trying to apply your anchoring knowledge in a real-world situation.
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shockabuku
Apr 19, 2012, 4:06 PM
Post #31 of 39
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majid_sabet wrote: if you are going to use draws, both master biner and top biners must be the exact same kind otherwise, forces on one side is greater due to mismatch biner length. not a biggy in TR but, it can be a problem on lead anchor.
That's absurd. If that were the case then the bolts would also have to be just as exactly horizontally placed. That doesn't happen in practice. Close, sometimes, but not exact.
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bearbreeder
Apr 19, 2012, 4:17 PM
Post #32 of 39
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if the majeedinator actually climbed ... hed know that on good bolted belays, youd clip a draw anyways on one of the bolts to prevent a factor 2 ...
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majid_sabet
Apr 20, 2012, 12:59 PM
Post #33 of 39
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sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: if you are going to use draws, both master biner and top biners must be the exact same kind otherwise, forces on one side is greater due to mismatch biner length. not a biggy in TR but, it can be a problem on lead anchor. Not important on lead either, in my opinion. Any movement of the anchor point from the exact angle where the lode is equally distributed negates the matched carabiner alignment concern. not important till someone dies then experts are all over it with their scientific data. I have no idea if you now agree with me or not. But my point was that if I were to come across a solid, two-bolt anchor I would happily clip a draw to each bolt and attach myself to it with a length of the climbing rope. Minute equalization via carabiner size would be of no consequence. What does disturb me is the misspelling of "load".
I still disagree with you due to fact that when you are trying to educate a beginner, it best to provide them with principles first than let them build their experience around it. telling a new climber that ohh yaa, just take two draws and clip it and you are good to go, sure it will do the job but you are not provide the whole thing.
if you ask most climbers why you clip in to two bolts instead of one, they all say " it safer" but only few know that every bolt adds as an extra safety factor and with two bolt it means, you still have 50% chance to live if one fails. three bolts cuts it down 67% if one fails.
IMO, that is an example of principle why we do things the certain way so two draws with mismatch carabiner length reduces the safety factor.
flame is on
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justroberto
Apr 20, 2012, 5:08 PM
Post #34 of 39
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majid_sabet wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: if you are going to use draws, both master biner and top biners must be the exact same kind otherwise, forces on one side is greater due to mismatch biner length. not a biggy in TR but, it can be a problem on lead anchor. Not important on lead either, in my opinion. Any movement of the anchor point from the exact angle where the lode is equally distributed negates the matched carabiner alignment concern. not important till someone dies then experts are all over it with their scientific data. I have no idea if you now agree with me or not. But my point was that if I were to come across a solid, two-bolt anchor I would happily clip a draw to each bolt and attach myself to it with a length of the climbing rope. Minute equalization via carabiner size would be of no consequence. What does disturb me is the misspelling of "load". I still disagree with you due to fact that when you are trying to educate a beginner, it best to provide them with principles first than let them build their experience around it. telling a new climber that ohh yaa, just take two draws and clip it and you are good to go, sure it will do the job but you are not provide the whole thing. if you ask most climbers why you clip in to two bolts instead of one, they all say " it safer" but only few know that every bolt adds as an extra safety factor and with two bolt it means, you still have 50% chance to live if one fails. three bolts cuts it down 67% if one fails.
Sometimes I wonder why people give you so much shit. This is not one of those times.
majid_sabet wrote: flame is on
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shockabuku
Apr 20, 2012, 5:12 PM
Post #35 of 39
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majid_sabet wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: sp115 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: if you are going to use draws, both master biner and top biners must be the exact same kind otherwise, forces on one side is greater due to mismatch biner length. not a biggy in TR but, it can be a problem on lead anchor. Not important on lead either, in my opinion. Any movement of the anchor point from the exact angle where the lode is equally distributed negates the matched carabiner alignment concern. not important till someone dies then experts are all over it with their scientific data. I have no idea if you now agree with me or not. But my point was that if I were to come across a solid, two-bolt anchor I would happily clip a draw to each bolt and attach myself to it with a length of the climbing rope. Minute equalization via carabiner size would be of no consequence. What does disturb me is the misspelling of "load". I still disagree with you due to fact that when you are trying to educate a beginner, it best to provide them with principles first than let them build their experience around it. telling a new climber that ohh yaa, just take two draws and clip it and you are good to go, sure it will do the job but you are not provide the whole thing. if you ask most climbers why you clip in to two bolts instead of one, they all say " it safer" but only few know that every bolt adds as an extra safety factor and with two bolt it means, you still have 50% chance to live if one fails. three bolts cuts it down 67% if one fails. IMO, that is an example of principle why we do things the certain way so two draws with mismatch carabiner length reduces the safety factor. flame is on
You're not used to using the maths, are you?
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sp115
Apr 21, 2012, 5:27 AM
Post #37 of 39
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majid_sabet wrote: ...IMO, that is an example of principle why we do things the certain way so two draws with mismatch carabiner length reduces the safety factor. flame is on
No, actually it doesn't. And if anyone ever suggested to me that my anchor would be "safer" if I matched my carabiners to provide better equalization, I would simply step six inches to one side and say what if I just stood here instead? And if they said ok, now your anchor is safe, I think I'd be done climbing wih them.
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LostinMaine
Apr 21, 2012, 5:56 AM
Post #38 of 39
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Registered: May 8, 2007
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Rockalanche wrote: Hello, Assuming the deck posts that the ropes are around are actually anchor with locking carabiners in them. Is this a safe and correct setup for a top anchor? Thanks Libby
Honestly, there is no way to tell if you have any idea what you are doing based on that nest of cord.
Here's what I propose: leave the deck alone, find a piece of rock, plug some gear or use natural anchors, create an anchor that you would actually use in the configuration you deem best, take a picture of all important components of the anchor (knots, 'biner orientation, protection, etc.), and then post it. Knowing what to do on deck posts means very little.
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Khoi
Apr 21, 2012, 6:28 PM
Post #39 of 39
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Posts: 285
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Rockalanche wrote: And how about instead of mindless cold criticism you could tell me what is wrong because I don't have the luxury of hiring a guide.
Can you get books on climbing and climbing anchors from a local library?
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