Forums: Climbing Information: The Lab:
link cam broken when fallen on
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for The Lab

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next page Last page  View All


VertFlirt


Apr 20, 2012, 11:40 AM
Post #101 of 161 (2705 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 19, 2007
Posts: 27

Re: [shotwell] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

healyje- dude i get it, they certinly ant any other cam, they have pros and cons... i get it. thats why i created this post, so everyone knows they have huge limitations, and will probilby break unless the placment is perfect.

shotwell- i think what ur looking for is me to admit that i didnt know shit about links before i started using them, this is not COMPLETLY true, i always knew they were weaker, and the've broken before. i also knew that, just like ANY OTHER CAM, they had to be placed in the direction of the fall, and i admit i underestimated the importance of that statment. i havent verified this but im sure EVERY OTHER SLCD manufacturer says the same thing about there product, tortional loading is bad, place in direction of fall.bla blabla. I feel OP didnt do a goodenoff job leting climbers know that, unlike ANY OTHER CAM, these ones will probily blow up if subjected to any tortional loading. like me, not all climbers will extensivly search the www to find this out before putting a UIAA approved product to use.


healyje


Apr 20, 2012, 12:47 PM
Post #102 of 161 (2692 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4199

Re: [VertFlirt] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

VertFlirt wrote:
...like me, not all climbers will extensivly search the www to find this out before putting a UIAA approved product to use.

Part of the point I and others are trying to get across here is that climbing is a serious, as in dead serious, business. Trad climbing is doubly so. You simply can't afford to "underestimate" ANYTHING about the pro you leave the ground with.

Saying you "knew they were weaker" is a start and hopefully you got that at first glance. But then you have to take that awareness a couple of steps further first taking the time to figure out 'weak' in what ways? And on sorting that out you then have to translate that to what it means in using them in placements - how will different placements either mitigate or exacerbate those weaknesses.

If you have to depend on websites, the UIAA, CE, manufacturer or any source outside of your own common sense and logic to figure that out then it's the same deal - you shouldn't be using them. The UIAA, CE, manufacturer, and sorted internet avatars aren't going to be leaving the ground with you when you tie in on lead - you are alone and you have to be capable on your own of perceiving, analyzing, and understanding the limitations of the gear you leave the ground with otherwise you're at high risk of injury and death.


shockabuku


Apr 20, 2012, 1:01 PM
Post #103 of 161 (2684 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4860

Re: [healyje] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

healyje wrote:
If you have to depend on websites, the UIAA, CE, manufacturer or any source outside of your own common sense and logic to figure that out then it's the same deal - you shouldn't be using them.

Which, as I read it, says "you have to know what you don't know."


tradmanclimbs


Apr 23, 2012, 5:53 AM
Post #104 of 161 (2610 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599

Re: [shockabuku] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I do not carry anything on my rack that does not have multiple uses and can not stand up to abuse. trad climbing is not a delicate sport and delicate gear has no place on my rack. Aid on the other hand is delicate. still not carrying link cams. i will take may chances with a talon hook or a bird beak ;) Link cams IMOP are too frajile and too limited in their placement orientation for me to bother carrying them. as much as I feel tricams are over rated i will take a tricam any day over a link cam.


tradmanclimbs


Apr 23, 2012, 6:20 AM
Post #105 of 161 (2598 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599

Re: [tradmanclimbs] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

All micro gear is sussecptable to faliure much more so than large gear. We Should all know that a 00 TCU is marginal pro in it's best placement. Most of us also feel pretty darn warm and fuzzy when we place a 2" piece in a good crack. Heck if I place a 2" piece in a good c rack I expect it to be completly effin bombproof to the tune of you can hang a keg off that sucker. This brings up the biggest danger with the Link cams INMOP. They are generaly big pieces that most would expect to be bombproof yet they are in fact just as delicate if not more delicate as your micro cams.


shotwell


Apr 23, 2012, 7:07 AM
Post #106 of 161 (2584 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 5, 2009
Posts: 366

Re: [tradmanclimbs] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

tradmanclimbs wrote:
All micro gear is sussecptable to faliure much more so than large gear. We Should all know that a 00 TCU is marginal pro in it's best placement. Most of us also feel pretty darn warm and fuzzy when we place a 2" piece in a good crack. Heck if I place a 2" piece in a good c rack I expect it to be completly effin bombproof to the tune of you can hang a keg off that sucker. This brings up the biggest danger with the Link cams INMOP. They are generaly big pieces that most would expect to be bombproof yet they are in fact just as delicate if not more delicate as your micro cams.

A full keg weighs 160.5 pounds. How is that even remotely bombproof?

If you can't handle the delicacy of the Link Cam, don't use them. I don't.

My argument is still the same as healy's. Make your own decisions. Figure out how to keep yourself and your partner safe.


tradmanclimbs


Apr 23, 2012, 9:54 AM
Post #107 of 161 (2550 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599

Re: [shotwell] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

 It's a saying that has been arround since I started climbing 30 years ago. "that is so bomber you could hang a keg off it" If you do not apperciate the humor in that saying then you are most likly too uptight to share a rope with... YMMV

Link cams are big pieces that should be bomber, they are not bomber. That is some shifty shit in my book and will not earn a place on my rack.


healyje


Apr 23, 2012, 10:29 AM
Post #108 of 161 (2532 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4199

Re: [tradmanclimbs] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

tradmanclimbs wrote:
Link cams are big pieces that should be bomber...

Hey, that's completely inane - which part of this link tab looks 'big' to you, or do you just not bother looking too close?




tradmanclimbs


Apr 23, 2012, 10:39 AM
Post #109 of 161 (2523 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599

Re: [healyje] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Thank you joe. You just made my point perfectly. A big piece should take advantage of it's size and be bombproof yet any anchor is only as strong as it's weakest LINK. In this case that link is mighty darn small.


healyje


Apr 23, 2012, 10:55 AM
Post #110 of 161 (2512 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4199

Re: [tradmanclimbs] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

"Size" is an utterly meaningless, pointless, and entirely counterproductive use of a word with regard to protection - there is nothing about the "size" of a piece or protection that does or should determine that piece's fitness for the task at hand.

That you would somehow equate "size" to fitness irrespective of the details of design and manufacture is borders on frightening.


redlude97


Apr 23, 2012, 10:55 AM
Post #111 of 161 (2508 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 988

Re: [tradmanclimbs] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

tradmanclimbs wrote:
It's a saying that has been arround since I started climbing 30 years ago. "that is so bomber you could hang a keg off it" If you do not apperciate the humor in that saying then you are most likly too uptight to share a rope with... YMMV

Link cams are big pieces that should be bomber, they are not bomber. That is some shifty shit in my book and will not earn a place on my rack.
Larger tricams and big bros are also big pieces, should they automatically be bomber as well? Or if you are going to use them should you just be aware of the limitations?


tradmanclimbs


Apr 23, 2012, 11:24 AM
Post #112 of 161 (2497 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599

Re: [redlude97] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

joe, thats effin stupid. regardless of what some girl told you to make you feel better size does matter. A #3 camalot makes a better belay anchor than a #00 TCU. A #7 stopper is bombproof, a #3 micro is a #3 micro. Bigger is better when it comes to saveing my ass. Link cams are big but have tiny little fcking parts in them that makes them potentualy as weak as a new born kitten. Total fcking BS INMOP


marc801


Apr 23, 2012, 11:25 AM
Post #113 of 161 (2497 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2744

Re: [tradmanclimbs] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

tradmanclimbs wrote:
It's a saying that has been arround since I started climbing 30 years ago. "that is so bomber you could hang a keg off it"...
I've been climbing for 40 years and have climbed in most of the major US climbing areas. I've never heard that saying until today.

"You could hang a truck off it...", sure, but keg?


tradmanclimbs


Apr 23, 2012, 11:30 AM
Post #114 of 161 (2495 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599

Re: [marc801] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Mark, How about a Beer Truck? You get your truck and a keg thrown inCool


healyje


Apr 23, 2012, 12:40 PM
Post #115 of 161 (2467 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4199

Re: [tradmanclimbs] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

tradmanclimbs wrote:
joe, thats effin stupid. regardless of what some girl told you to make you feel better size does matter. A #3 camalot makes a better belay anchor than a #00 TCU. A #7 stopper is bombproof, a #3 micro is a #3 micro. Bigger is better when it comes to saveing my ass. Link cams are big but have tiny little fcking parts in them that makes them potentualy as weak as a new born kitten. Total fcking BS INMOP

Your entire tract on size matters is moronic - design matter, materials matter, manufacturing matters. There is NOTHING about size that somehow does or should override the details of what a piece 'is' when you leave the ground with it.


(This post was edited by healyje on Apr 23, 2012, 12:41 PM)


johnwesely


Apr 23, 2012, 2:06 PM
Post #116 of 161 (2435 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 5343

Re: [healyje] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

healyje wrote:
tradmanclimbs wrote:
joe, thats effin stupid. regardless of what some girl told you to make you feel better size does matter. A #3 camalot makes a better belay anchor than a #00 TCU. A #7 stopper is bombproof, a #3 micro is a #3 micro. Bigger is better when it comes to saveing my ass. Link cams are big but have tiny little fcking parts in them that makes them potentualy as weak as a new born kitten. Total fcking BS INMOP

Your entire tract on size matters is moronic - design matter, materials matter, manufacturing matters. There is NOTHING about size that somehow does or should override the details of what a piece 'is' when you leave the ground with it.

I think he is just trying to say that the limitations exceed the usefulness of the piece, especially when compared to other pieces in the same size range.


tradmanclimbs


Apr 23, 2012, 2:23 PM
Post #117 of 161 (2425 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599

Re: [healyje] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Joe, Are you smoking crack?

Hanging belay. the moves off of that hanging belay are the crux of the climb and no gear is available untill after hard moves have been done directly above the belay risking an FF2 fall.

Your choice of belay anchors.
Option #1; Two 1/4in button heads with leeper hangers or two 1/2in glue ins.

#2: Two 3# BD micro stoppers or 2 BD #7 stoppers.

#3: Two #00 metelious TCU's or 2 BD Gold #2 Camalots.

In 30 years of climbing I have zippered some gear. Mostly pushing new routs. only once was it a large piece. A horribly placed green camalot in a wet slimy flare. All my other gear failures have been micro wires, micro stoppers, tied off knife blades, bird beaks, talon hooks, etc. When it comes to protection bigger is better up to a point.

My point with the link cam is it is a big piece with tiny delicate parts in it. Useless as tits on a boar hogg INMOP


(This post was edited by tradmanclimbs on Apr 23, 2012, 2:30 PM)


tradmanclimbs


Apr 23, 2012, 2:27 PM
Post #118 of 161 (2420 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599

Re: [tradmanclimbs] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I think he is just trying to say that the limitations exceed the usefulness of the piece, especially when compared to other pieces in the same size range.



Bingo.


6pacfershur


Apr 23, 2012, 2:45 PM
Post #119 of 161 (2410 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 22, 2010
Posts: 216

Re: [VertFlirt] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

this thread is awsome! the only ones missing are rescueman and majid....


healyje


Apr 24, 2012, 12:02 AM
Post #120 of 161 (2360 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4199

Re: [tradmanclimbs] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

tradmanclimbs wrote:
I think he is just trying to say that the limitations exceed the usefulness of the piece, especially when compared to other pieces in the same size range.

Bingo.

As I've said again and again, I have no problem with that personal conclusion and decision not to use them; what I have a problem with is the moronic assertion that big pieces should be bomb.

P.S. There isn't a cam size I haven't broken or seen broken.



marc801


Apr 24, 2012, 11:47 AM
Post #121 of 161 (2299 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2744

Re: [tradmanclimbs] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

tradmanclimbs wrote:
Mark, How about a Beer Truck? You get your truck and a keg thrown inCool
A beer truck sounds just great!!!


tradmanclimbs


Apr 24, 2012, 1:35 PM
Post #122 of 161 (2273 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599

Re: [marc801] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Who is the moron here joe? The guy who gets all warm and fuzzy when he sinks a perfect # 3 camalot or perhaps a #11 hex in a perfect bottle neck or the company that markets link cams to noobs on the premis that they are bomber pro that does everything?


healyje


Apr 24, 2012, 1:43 PM
Post #123 of 161 (2266 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4199

Re: [tradmanclimbs] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

I would say anyone who takes a 1/4 second glance at them and thinks they're just another cam or anyone asserting size is anything but meaningless without consideration of design and manufacture.


shotwell


Apr 24, 2012, 1:46 PM
Post #124 of 161 (2261 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 5, 2009
Posts: 366

Re: [tradmanclimbs] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

tradmanclimbs wrote:
Who is the moron here joe? The guy who gets all warm and fuzzy when he sinks a perfect # 3 camalot or perhaps a #11 hex in a perfect bottle neck or the company that markets link cams to noobs on the premis that they are bomber pro that does everything?

Have you even tried to keep up with this thread? On the main marketing page for the Link Cams Omega Pacific specifically warns about their inherent weaknesses.

In reply to:
Be sure to anticipate direction of load, should you fall or weight the cam. This is particularly important with Link Cams, due to their unique construction. Since they are built using trisected cam lobes, Link Cams can become damaged—and the placement may fail—if a load is placed that makes the cam “shift” when a climber falls onto it. We are constantly researching ways to improve the strength and durability of Link Cams, but it is critical that Link Cams be placed with direction of load in mind. You should always place any removable protection with this principle in mind, of course, but Link Cams in particular should be placed so that the stem is aimed directly toward the ground and, when loaded, the position of the axle does not rotate during a fall or when bounce-testing. Although Link Cams’ flexible stems can help “correct” a less-than-ideal placement, it is still important that the initial placement be made in proper alignment with anticipated load.

Doesn't sound like they're saying you can use them however you choose to me. If you're incapable of deciphering marketing copy it is no surprise that you would use size as an indicator of strength. It is no one's fault but your own that you think Link Cams should work the way you expect. They are what they are.


healyje


Apr 24, 2012, 2:00 PM
Post #125 of 161 (2249 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4199

Re: [shotwell] link cam broken when fallen on [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
unique construction

In reply to:
trisected cam lobes

Ultra-hush-hush, secret code words for 'not like other cams'.

The advantages the design offers comes with some obvious materials limitations in the execution - at least they should be patently obvious or, if they aren't, then you shouldn't be trad climbing.

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Information : The Lab

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook