|
karmiclimber
Apr 30, 2012, 11:01 AM
Post #1 of 30
(11630 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 1058
|
So while I was reading in the routes database and putting together a hitlist, I noticed that someone logged an ascent of a TR as an onsight. The climb is top rope only. I thought onsight only applied to lead or trad...that toproping was just toproping. **Please note I'm not trying to call anyone out...I'm just trying to figure out if I'm wrong and you can onsight a TR. Ty.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Apr 30, 2012, 11:35 AM
Post #2 of 30
(11608 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
Meh, if it's a TR only route (such as on southern sandstone in the UK) then the style is TR. First time no beta = onsite. If the route is usually led on bolts/gear then a TR wouldn't really be an onsite, though personally I wouldn't be too worried if someone used the term to convey that they sent it first go.
|
|
|
|
|
lena_chita
Moderator
Apr 30, 2012, 12:00 PM
Post #3 of 30
(11556 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 6087
|
sungam wrote: Meh, if it's a TR only route (such as on southern sandstone in the UK) then the style is TR. First time no beta = onsite. If the route is usually led on bolts/gear then a TR wouldn't really be an onsite, though personally I wouldn't be too worried if someone used the term to convey that they sent it first go. +1 If I know nothing about the route in question, and someone tells me that he/she onsighted the route, with no other details, I would assume that the person is talking about onsighting it on lead. But I have no problem with someone saying that they "onsighted the route on TR". Everyone who knows anything about climbing would understand what it means: climbed clean on first go, without beta, on toprope. End of story. Between friends, we have a silly term for it: "tronsight"
|
|
|
|
|
USnavy
Apr 30, 2012, 12:01 PM
Post #4 of 30
(11556 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 6, 2007
Posts: 2667
|
karmiclimber wrote: So while I was reading in the routes database and putting together a hitlist, I noticed that someone logged an ascent of a TR as an onsight. The climb is top rope only. I thought onsight only applied to lead or trad...that toproping was just toproping. **Please note I'm not trying to call anyone out...I'm just trying to figure out if I'm wrong and you can onsight a TR. Ty. The terms onsight, flash, redpoint, pinkpoint, and hangdog technically only apply to climbs completed on lead. The terms top rope and second apply to climbs completed on TR. But whatever, who cares. He can call it a "TR onsight" if he wants.
(This post was edited by USnavy on Apr 30, 2012, 12:04 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
guangzhou
Apr 30, 2012, 12:44 PM
Post #5 of 30
(11521 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 3389
|
USnavy wrote: karmiclimber wrote: So while I was reading in the routes database and putting together a hitlist, I noticed that someone logged an ascent of a TR as an onsight. The climb is top rope only. I thought onsight only applied to lead or trad...that toproping was just toproping. **Please note I'm not trying to call anyone out...I'm just trying to figure out if I'm wrong and you can onsight a TR. Ty. The terms onsight, flash, redpoint, pinkpoint, and hangdog technically only apply to climbs completed on lead. The terms top rope and second apply to climbs completed on TR. But whatever, who cares. He can call it a "TR onsight" if he wants. Once again, wrong. pink-point is pretty dead these days for one. onsite can apply to top-rope route, especially in area where the only way to climb is on TR. You can also onsight while freesoloing, recommended actually. Seconding, I guess the second is always on TR, but it does require more work, often removing gear and maybe following traverses.
|
|
|
|
|
karmiclimber
Apr 30, 2012, 1:02 PM
Post #6 of 30
(11506 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 1058
|
guangzhou wrote: USnavy wrote: karmiclimber wrote: So while I was reading in the routes database and putting together a hitlist, I noticed that someone logged an ascent of a TR as an onsight. The climb is top rope only. I thought onsight only applied to lead or trad...that toproping was just toproping. **Please note I'm not trying to call anyone out...I'm just trying to figure out if I'm wrong and you can onsight a TR. Ty. The terms onsight, flash, redpoint, pinkpoint, and hangdog technically only apply to climbs completed on lead. The terms top rope and second apply to climbs completed on TR. But whatever, who cares. He can call it a "TR onsight" if he wants. Once again, wrong. pink-point is pretty dead these days for one. onsite can apply to top-rope route, especially in area where the only way to climb is on TR. You can also onsight while freesoloing, recommended actually. Seconding, I guess the second is always on TR, but it does require more work, often removing gear and maybe following traverses. Makes more sense now...the area in question is a TR only area.
|
|
|
|
|
bearbreeder
Apr 30, 2012, 2:36 PM
Post #7 of 30
(11458 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2009
Posts: 1960
|
TRON ... top rope on sight ... i would never call a TR onsight ... but some gym climbers may the best is when theres young people who TR a leadable climb, fall 3 times and then shout out to their friends "I JUST ONSIGHTED THAT CLIMB!!!" i view redpoints, flashes and onsights as lead myself ... otherwise ive "onsighed" many a climb
|
|
|
|
|
surfstar
Apr 30, 2012, 3:38 PM
Post #8 of 30
(11429 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 31, 2011
Posts: 206
|
If you knew enough beta to know about the TR anchors and there is chalk from previous climbers - is it really an onsight? This is important shit here folks!
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Apr 30, 2012, 3:54 PM
Post #9 of 30
(11416 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
bearbreeder wrote: i would never call a TR onsight Not even at High Rocks?
|
|
|
|
|
bearbreeder
Apr 30, 2012, 3:56 PM
Post #10 of 30
(11411 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2009
Posts: 1960
|
never personally ... a climb may only be TR for you today ... but one day someone bold enough may "lead" it ... or solo it
|
|
|
|
|
bearbreeder
Apr 30, 2012, 4:11 PM
Post #12 of 30
(11395 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2009
Posts: 1960
|
IMO onsight, flash and redpoint mean something special in the climbing world ... which is why people go gaga over mr ondras onsights of 8c ... his 8b boulder flash im not a sticker for "ethics" ... but i think if yr going to onsight, flash, redpoint something ... it should be something that means something ... not something you shout out to impress yr friends TRing takes away the mental aspect of climbing ... ie that of falling on lead ... i dont consider that to be onsight. flash, redpoint ... when i mention this nicely to some climbers who "onsight" a very leadable climb with their friends shouting out beta ... they arent too impressed each to his or her own ...
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Apr 30, 2012, 4:22 PM
Post #13 of 30
(11382 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
Aye, fair enough dude. Seems to make plenty of sense.
|
|
|
|
|
curt
Apr 30, 2012, 4:48 PM
Post #14 of 30
(11360 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 18275
|
bearbreeder wrote: IMO onsight, flash and redpoint mean something special in the climbing world... "Special," like on the short bus? Curt
|
|
|
|
|
granite_grrl
Apr 30, 2012, 6:52 PM
Post #15 of 30
(11312 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
|
I remember my first few 5.11's fondly. They were at a mainly top roping area, one I had to work out and I got second go, the other I onsighted. The one I onsighted was really special to me. Even though it was on top rope I REALLY had to fight for it. Managing to do it clean onsight was a real eye opener that the elusive 5.11 realm wasn't that far out of reach. In the end I think I just listed the route as a top rope in my log, but it will always be remembered as an onsight for me.
|
|
|
|
|
tisakson
May 4, 2012, 12:51 AM
Post #16 of 30
(11100 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 14, 2005
Posts: 75
|
You can call it whatever you want. Who cares? Have fun and climb on!
|
|
|
|
|
gen8787
May 4, 2012, 1:38 AM
Post #17 of 30
(11083 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 21, 2010
Posts: 8
|
I use two different terms when recording ascents. 1. Onsight - Lead only onsight. 2. Tronsight - Top rope onsight.
|
|
|
|
|
shockabuku
May 4, 2012, 11:23 AM
Post #18 of 30
(11008 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
|
guangzhou wrote: ...where the only way to climb is on TR. You can also onsight while freesoloing... The second statement suggests the first statement is a falsehood - that there exist climbs that can only be TR'ed. Therefore, ergo, hence I declare your conclusion to be CRAP.
|
|
|
|
|
marc801
May 4, 2012, 2:08 PM
Post #20 of 30
(10963 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2806
|
bearbreeder wrote: im not a sticker for "ethics" ... but i think if yr going to onsight, flash, redpoint something ... it should be something that means something ... not something you shout out to impress yr friends Minor point: ethics = how what you do impacts and affects others style = the manner of the ascent that affects only your ego and how you spray about it. In this thread we're discussing style, not ethics.
|
|
|
|
|
redlude97
May 4, 2012, 2:17 PM
Post #21 of 30
(10957 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 990
|
Can someone make a shirt that says "I Tronsight 5.9" please
|
|
|
|
|
Colinhoglund
May 8, 2012, 4:36 AM
Post #22 of 30
(10739 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 5, 2008
Posts: 338
|
For me the only time 'onsight' can relate to anything else then a clean lead, no falls or beta is in the gym. If I climb a route no falls on tr in the gym I'll call it an onsight as opposed to 'i fell' or 'I got it clean the 2nd go' etc. But that is only with regards to indoor. I didn't onsight unless I lead more than half the pitches, no falls on lead or second, and no beta (beyond perhaps 'bring a 2nd #2' etc). Otherwise its just a big fat, TR!
|
|
|
|
|
surfstar
May 8, 2012, 5:54 AM
Post #23 of 30
(10722 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 31, 2011
Posts: 206
|
Colinhoglund wrote: For me the only time 'onsight' can relate to anything else then a clean lead, no falls or beta is in the gym. Onsight?!? The fucking holds are colored!!! Maybe if you were colorblind I could see this justification.
|
|
|
|
|
Colinhoglund
May 9, 2012, 6:00 AM
Post #24 of 30
(10595 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 5, 2008
Posts: 338
|
surfstar wrote: Colinhoglund wrote: For me the only time 'onsight' can relate to anything else then a clean lead, no falls or beta is in the gym. Onsight?!? The fucking holds are colored!!! Maybe if you were colorblind I could see this justification. You clearly take yourself too seriously. Its the gym, its just a poor substitute for the real thing. No argument, outdoor onsights are by far more esteemed. (ps. even with the holds taped you still have to figure the moves out)
|
|
|
|
|
healyje
May 9, 2012, 9:07 AM
Post #25 of 30
(10577 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
|
surfstar wrote: Colinhoglund wrote: For me the only time 'onsight' can relate to anything else then a clean lead, no falls or beta is in the gym. Onsight?!? The fucking holds are colored!!! Maybe if you were colorblind I could see this justification. Well, I don't know, outside (unless it's an onsight FA) then about 90% of the time you're talking about your basic climb-by-the-dots job and is that really all that different...?
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
May 9, 2012, 11:33 AM
Post #26 of 30
(1068 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
healyje wrote: surfstar wrote: Colinhoglund wrote: For me the only time 'onsight' can relate to anything else then a clean lead, no falls or beta is in the gym. Onsight?!? The fucking holds are colored!!! Maybe if you were colorblind I could see this justification. Well, I don't know, outside ( unless it's an onsight FA) then about 90% of the time you're talking about your basic climb-by-the-dots job and is that really all that different...? Let's not even get started on routes like supercrack
|
|
|
|
|
surfstar
May 9, 2012, 3:09 PM
Post #27 of 30
(1037 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 31, 2011
Posts: 206
|
Colinhoglund wrote: surfstar wrote: Colinhoglund wrote: For me the only time 'onsight' can relate to anything else then a clean lead, no falls or beta is in the gym. Onsight?!? The fucking holds are colored!!! Maybe if you were colorblind I could see this justification. You clearly take yourself too seriously. Its the gym, its just a poor substitute for the real thing. No argument, outdoor onsights are by far more esteemed. (ps. even with the holds taped you still have to figure the moves out) No, complete opposite - I'm pointing out the absurdity of the weight that some people put into these terms. I believe a good-style onsight doesn't involve a guidebook or a pre-known grade.
|
|
|
|
|
granite_grrl
May 9, 2012, 3:18 PM
Post #28 of 30
(1031 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
|
surfstar wrote: Colinhoglund wrote: surfstar wrote: Colinhoglund wrote: For me the only time 'onsight' can relate to anything else then a clean lead, no falls or beta is in the gym. Onsight?!? The fucking holds are colored!!! Maybe if you were colorblind I could see this justification. You clearly take yourself too seriously. Its the gym, its just a poor substitute for the real thing. No argument, outdoor onsights are by far more esteemed. (ps. even with the holds taped you still have to figure the moves out) No, complete opposite - I'm pointing out the absurdity of the weight that some people put into these terms. I believe a good-style onsight doesn't involve a guidebook or a pre-known grade. Will you also be naked with a watermelon tied around your waist?
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
May 9, 2012, 4:45 PM
Post #29 of 30
(1010 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
healyje wrote: surfstar wrote: Colinhoglund wrote: For me the only time 'onsight' can relate to anything else then a clean lead, no falls or beta is in the gym. Onsight?!? The fucking holds are colored!!! Maybe if you were colorblind I could see this justification. Well, I don't know, outside ( unless it's an onsight FA) then about 90% of the time you're talking about your basic climb-by-the-dots job and is that really all that different...? It might all be a wash in the end. Those chalked holds and tick marks can offer some pretty terrible beta sometimes.
|
|
|
|
|
notapplicable
May 9, 2012, 4:46 PM
Post #30 of 30
(1008 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17771
|
granite_grrl wrote: surfstar wrote: Colinhoglund wrote: surfstar wrote: Colinhoglund wrote: For me the only time 'onsight' can relate to anything else then a clean lead, no falls or beta is in the gym. Onsight?!? The fucking holds are colored!!! Maybe if you were colorblind I could see this justification. You clearly take yourself too seriously. Its the gym, its just a poor substitute for the real thing. No argument, outdoor onsights are by far more esteemed. (ps. even with the holds taped you still have to figure the moves out) No, complete opposite - I'm pointing out the absurdity of the weight that some people put into these terms. I believe a good-style onsight doesn't involve a guidebook or a pre-known grade. Will you also be naked with a watermelon tied around your waist? I would pay money to see that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|