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NEGuiding


May 1, 2012, 1:24 PM
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bearbreeder


May 1, 2012, 1:24 PM
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NEGuiding wrote:
It's a fact on what UV rays do too webbing or any material for that matter haha! And I "replace" them on routes. But we're talking about a top-roping environment NOT a simple rappel anchor one might encounter on a route slung around a tree.

Thanks for the pic post too ;)

u stated in a matter hour hours or a day ... whats the difference between leaving a sling/webbing on a tree for a few hours ... or carrying it on yr shoulder exposed for a few hours ... hmmmm

still quite funny that "runners" are safe, but webbing from the same material aint Wink


wonderwoman


May 1, 2012, 1:28 PM
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So, NE, since you're still here... How about those tope rope webbing failures?


NEGuiding


May 1, 2012, 1:28 PM
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I "replace" them for my own and clients safety and educate/tell others climbers to do the same when they encounter them and need to rappel off of them.


johnwesely


May 1, 2012, 1:29 PM
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NEGuiding wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
Rather not mention any names, I respect the company you mentioned and no it's not them. We've only been in the NC area for a few months. And We don't support the only access org down here, the SECC because of the bolting issue they did at Crowders Mntn. Clearly shows their lack of knowledge and you can contact Petzl on that matter. The SECC put Petzl long life bolts into kyanite quartzite stone at Crowders, WRONG choice for that type of rock and Petzl sent us a letter confirming it that we showed to the state park service.

You are so well informed that you didn't know the acronym for the Southeastern Climbers Coalition was SCC, and you didn't even know about the Carolina's Climbers Coalition.
SECC, SCC, who really cares. They obviously have some technical issues and should just stick to gaining access and not bolt replacing. Like I said, we've only been here a few months. Don't really have time to go around hunting down access orgs.

Speechless. You are guiding in an area but obviously have no respect for and are openly antagonistic towards the groups that make your profession possible.


NEGuiding


May 1, 2012, 1:30 PM
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jakedatc


May 1, 2012, 1:31 PM
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NEGuiding wrote:
I "replace" them for my own and clients safety and educate/tell others climbers to do the same when they encounter them and need to rappel off of them.

Bullshit.

and even more bullshit that you think that a piece of webbing can't be used for more than one day.

You should probably quit climbing now because your understanding of this sport are NOT good. not good at all.


NEGuiding


May 1, 2012, 1:32 PM
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johnwesely wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
Rather not mention any names, I respect the company you mentioned and no it's not them. We've only been in the NC area for a few months. And We don't support the only access org down here, the SECC because of the bolting issue they did at Crowders Mntn. Clearly shows their lack of knowledge and you can contact Petzl on that matter. The SECC put Petzl long life bolts into kyanite quartzite stone at Crowders, WRONG choice for that type of rock and Petzl sent us a letter confirming it that we showed to the state park service.

You are so well informed that you didn't know the acronym for the Southeastern Climbers Coalition was SCC, and you didn't even know about the Carolina's Climbers Coalition.
SECC, SCC, who really cares. They obviously have some technical issues and should just stick to gaining access and not bolt replacing. Like I said, we've only been here a few months. Don't really have time to go around hunting down access orgs.

Speechless. You are guiding in an area but obviously have no respect for and are openly antagonistic towards the groups that make your profession possible.

We have A LOT of respect for the area and that is why we approached the park service to address this bolt issue. You should read sentences completely. We also are pushing for the NC state parks to require an insurance certificate from guiding outfits when they guide in the state parks. Something they don't do now.


redlude97


May 1, 2012, 1:40 PM
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NEGuiding wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
So, NE, since you're still here... How about those tope rope webbing failures?

Sorry, I'm not an internet junky and don't possess a folder of accident links but if you look at the high angle rescue post above and read the results that should be enough info for you ;) My knowledge of climbing accidents is from rangers, witnesses, guides, friends, my own experiences, etc.
Are you saying that you've seen or heard of webbing spontaneously disintegrate after 1 day outside then?


jakedatc


May 1, 2012, 1:40 PM
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NEGuiding wrote:
I "replace" them for my own and clients safety and educate/tell others climbers to do the same when they encounter them and need to rappel off of them.

So you are leaving trash on the cliffs that no one else can use in the future to convenience your guiding activities. LNT my ass.


NEGuiding


May 1, 2012, 1:46 PM
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jakedatc wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
I "replace" them for my own and clients safety and educate/tell others climbers to do the same when they encounter them and need to rappel off of them.

So you are leaving trash on the cliffs that no one else can use in the future to convenience your guiding activities. LNT my ass.
You name me a crag that has trees where rap anchors don't exist, I'd LOVE to see that.


majid_sabet


May 1, 2012, 1:46 PM
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NEGuiding wrote:
Oh this is just getting amusing now. I have plenty of certifications and have taken MANY classes from professionals and I also employee MANY professionals. My credibility speaks for itself.

can you scan and show us your certificates ?

how do we know you are no making this up ?


NEGuiding


May 1, 2012, 1:51 PM
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majid_sabet wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
Oh this is just getting amusing now. I have plenty of certifications and have taken MANY classes from professionals and I also employee MANY professionals. My credibility speaks for itself.

can you scan and show us your certificates ?

how do we know you are no making this up ?

All on my website. Links to organizations I'm involved with, etc. no need to scan


madscientist


May 1, 2012, 1:52 PM
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wonderwoman wrote:
So, NE, since you're still here... How about those tope rope webbing failures?

I agree. Cannot find any accidents myself. It is one thing to show that static cord is better, but another to show that webbing is unsafe. Any evidence that webbing is unsafe has not emerged from this "discussion."

I just want to know if there is any basis to this claim.


majid_sabet


May 1, 2012, 1:53 PM
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NEGuiding wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
Oh this is just getting amusing now. I have plenty of certifications and have taken MANY classes from professionals and I also employee MANY professionals. My credibility speaks for itself.

can you scan and show us your certificates ?

how do we know you are no making this up ?

All on my website. Links to organizations I'm involved with, etc. no need to scan


what is the link ?


curt


May 1, 2012, 1:56 PM
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madscientist wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
So, NE, since you're still here... How about those tope rope webbing failures?

I agree. Cannot find any accidents myself. It is one thing to show that static cord is better, but another to show that webbing is unsafe. Any evidence that webbing is unsafe has not emerged from this "discussion."

I just want to know if there is any basis to this claim.

No. There is absolutely NO basis to his claim.

Curt


shimanilami


May 1, 2012, 2:00 PM
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This is an amazing thread.

Do any you have jobs?


wonderwoman


May 1, 2012, 2:12 PM
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shimanilami wrote:
This is an amazing thread.

Do any you have jobs?

I took the day off to work on my final paper, um, I mean argue with people on RC.com.


jeepnphreak


May 1, 2012, 2:19 PM
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jakedatc wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
Like I stated above, webbing dries out FAST when exposed to sunlight like it is when used in a top-rope set up all day or even just for a few hours which weakens it by drying it out. We've all seen this happen.

Bullshit. If that is so then a Rap anchors on trees across the country would be useless hours after they were put up.

AND you say you put webbing rap anchors on routes so in your opinion you are setting a trap for someone else?


Total bull shit!!!!!!
Most of the trees in my area at the top of almost every ice climb has webbing on it from about October to about mid March/April. 6 months of sun and weather exposure and I have yet to see a webbing failure. If the webbing is suspect then yes, replace it . Each spring the climbing col. comes around and cuts off the old webbing to clean up what been left over the winter, after cutting out 6 month webbing its surprisingly strong still.

NEGuiding, it seems like. . . or at least you come across as if you have taken a few classes and are knowledgeable text book wise, but have minimal experience and yet to think for yourself and question what you are spewing makes since. Its good that guides are taught to over build anchors but webbing is much stronger than you think it is.
I use 1 in tubular for slack line setups. 180* anchor with a 8:1 pulley system and then toss in my 160 lb butt and I guarantee than webbing is seeing over more force than any top rope setup (reason: each biner in the pulley system, the gates are bound up from the tension)

So back to the OP question, IF I was guiding or running a lot or TR, I would use static rope, simply on the fact that static rope will take more abuse than webbing.
I rarely run top rope laps, so I prefer webbing for rap station because its lighter and cheaper to leave behind.


Gmburns2000


May 1, 2012, 2:21 PM
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NEGuiding wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
Rather not mention any names, I respect the company you mentioned and no it's not them. We've only been in the NC area for a few months. And We don't support the only access org down here, the SECC because of the bolting issue they did at Crowders Mntn. Clearly shows their lack of knowledge and you can contact Petzl on that matter. The SECC put Petzl long life bolts into kyanite quartzite stone at Crowders, WRONG choice for that type of rock and Petzl sent us a letter confirming it that we showed to the state park service.

You are so well informed that you didn't know the acronym for the Southeastern Climbers Coalition was SCC, and you didn't even know about the Carolina's Climbers Coalition.
SECC, SCC, who really cares. They obviously have some technical issues and should just stick to gaining access and not bolt replacing. Like I said, we've only been here a few months. Don't really have time to go around hunting down access orgs.

Speechless. You are guiding in an area but obviously have no respect for and are openly antagonistic towards the groups that make your profession possible.

We have A LOT of respect for the area and that is why we approached the park service to address this bolt issue. You should read sentences completely. We also are pushing for the NC state parks to require an insurance certificate from guiding outfits when they guide in the state parks. Something they don't do now.

I don't disagree with requiring guides to have insurance (carrying one is probably unnecessary as a simple registration process would keep guides up to date), but I have heard of this tactic before, and it's usually not presented as an option because the guide cares for the well-being of other guiding company clients or because it doesn't want the State to get sued. It's usually a tactic used to push out the competition.

Hey, plenty of worse tactics have been used in better industries, so good on you if that's a tactic you're using, but let's not sugarcoat it as if you're doing the world a favor here.


ncrockclimber


May 1, 2012, 2:25 PM
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NEGuiding wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
Rather not mention any names, I respect the company you mentioned and no it's not them. We've only been in the NC area for a few months. And We don't support the only access org down here, the SECC because of the bolting issue they did at Crowders Mntn. Clearly shows their lack of knowledge and you can contact Petzl on that matter. The SECC put Petzl long life bolts into kyanite quartzite stone at Crowders, WRONG choice for that type of rock and Petzl sent us a letter confirming it that we showed to the state park service.

You are so well informed that you didn't know the acronym for the Southeastern Climbers Coalition was SCC, and you didn't even know about the Carolina's Climbers Coalition.
SECC, SCC, who really cares. They obviously have some technical issues and should just stick to gaining access and not bolt replacing. Like I said, we've only been here a few months. Don't really have time to go around hunting down access orgs.

Speechless. You are guiding in an area but obviously have no respect for and are openly antagonistic towards the groups that make your profession possible.

We have A LOT of respect for the area and that is why we approached the park service to address this bolt issue. You should read sentences completely. We also are pushing for the NC state parks to require an insurance certificate from guiding outfits when they guide in the state parks. Something they don't do now.

So, you move to a new area where you are unfamiliar with the access issues and the local organizations advocating for climbers, and within a few months you are informing the NC State Parks Service that the CCC is incompetent and lobbying for a change in the way they regulate guides. Did you reach out to anyone in the CCC (or the SCC) about your concerns first? Did you ever think that undermining the CCC you might be damaging access for everyone?


Joey7777


May 1, 2012, 3:06 PM
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ncrockclimber wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
Rather not mention any names, I respect the company you mentioned and no it's not them. We've only been in the NC area for a few months. And We don't support the only access org down here, the SECC because of the bolting issue they did at Crowders Mntn. Clearly shows their lack of knowledge and you can contact Petzl on that matter. The SECC put Petzl long life bolts into kyanite quartzite stone at Crowders, WRONG choice for that type of rock and Petzl sent us a letter confirming it that we showed to the state park service.

You are so well informed that you didn't know the acronym for the Southeastern Climbers Coalition was SCC, and you didn't even know about the Carolina's Climbers Coalition.
SECC, SCC, who really cares. They obviously have some technical issues and should just stick to gaining access and not bolt replacing. Like I said, we've only been here a few months. Don't really have time to go around hunting down access orgs.

Speechless. You are guiding in an area but obviously have no respect for and are openly antagonistic towards the groups that make your profession possible.

We have A LOT of respect for the area and that is why we approached the park service to address this bolt issue. You should read sentences completely. We also are pushing for the NC state parks to require an insurance certificate from guiding outfits when they guide in the state parks. Something they don't do now.

So, you move to a new area where you are unfamiliar with the access issues and the local organizations advocating for climbers, and within a few months you are informing the NC State Parks Service that the CCC is incompetent and lobbying for a change in the way they regulate guides. Did you reach out to anyone in the CCC (or the SCC) about your concerns first? Did you ever think that undermining the CCC you might be damaging access for everyone?
Apparently RC.com did something to our account, interesting. Anyway, are you serious ncrock climber? An organization rebolts with nail drive (the wrong bolts) in one of the weakest metamorphic rocks out there and they knew this while placing them but continued to place them throughout the park. I know this because after they hammered the pin in and realized it didn't set right they took a pointed tool and proceeded to hammer the pin in even FURTHER! I saw indents on every nail that they drove almost completely thru the sleeve. Making the anchor weaker than it originally was. These bolts are so close to the cliff edges that macro structure was obviously NOT a concern of theirs, one bolt if you clip a carabiner in it the spine rests on the cliff edge. Other bolts they replaced are SAE graded carbon steel bolts (3 slashes on the head) which have more rust on them than the titanic causing galvanic reaction to the clip. Why in the WORLD would I "reach out" to an organization that does this? Tell me that. They have no concern about climbing safety if this is how they "re-bolt" a local crag. I could go on about other bolts in this park if you'd like. If you're an organization representing the climbing community, as you say, wouldn't you hire professionals to change bolts? Or even call up a bolt manufacturer and ask them which bolt they recommend. The NC State Park service NEEDED to be aware of this and I hope they do something to change these bolts before someone gets seriously injured.


Joey7777


May 1, 2012, 3:09 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
Rather not mention any names, I respect the company you mentioned and no it's not them. We've only been in the NC area for a few months. And We don't support the only access org down here, the SECC because of the bolting issue they did at Crowders Mntn. Clearly shows their lack of knowledge and you can contact Petzl on that matter. The SECC put Petzl long life bolts into kyanite quartzite stone at Crowders, WRONG choice for that type of rock and Petzl sent us a letter confirming it that we showed to the state park service.

You are so well informed that you didn't know the acronym for the Southeastern Climbers Coalition was SCC, and you didn't even know about the Carolina's Climbers Coalition.
SECC, SCC, who really cares. They obviously have some technical issues and should just stick to gaining access and not bolt replacing. Like I said, we've only been here a few months. Don't really have time to go around hunting down access orgs.

Speechless. You are guiding in an area but obviously have no respect for and are openly antagonistic towards the groups that make your profession possible.

We have A LOT of respect for the area and that is why we approached the park service to address this bolt issue. You should read sentences completely. We also are pushing for the NC state parks to require an insurance certificate from guiding outfits when they guide in the state parks. Something they don't do now.

I don't disagree with requiring guides to have insurance (carrying one is probably unnecessary as a simple registration process would keep guides up to date), but I have heard of this tactic before, and it's usually not presented as an option because the guide cares for the well-being of other guiding company clients or because it doesn't want the State to get sued. It's usually a tactic used to push out the competition.

Hey, plenty of worse tactics have been used in better industries, so good on you if that's a tactic you're using, but let's not sugarcoat it as if you're doing the world a favor here.
It pushes out illegal guiding outfits is what it does. The general publics safety is what real guiding outfits should care about like we do.


johnwesely


May 1, 2012, 3:17 PM
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Joey7777 wrote:
ncrockclimber wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
Rather not mention any names, I respect the company you mentioned and no it's not them. We've only been in the NC area for a few months. And We don't support the only access org down here, the SECC because of the bolting issue they did at Crowders Mntn. Clearly shows their lack of knowledge and you can contact Petzl on that matter. The SECC put Petzl long life bolts into kyanite quartzite stone at Crowders, WRONG choice for that type of rock and Petzl sent us a letter confirming it that we showed to the state park service.

You are so well informed that you didn't know the acronym for the Southeastern Climbers Coalition was SCC, and you didn't even know about the Carolina's Climbers Coalition.
SECC, SCC, who really cares. They obviously have some technical issues and should just stick to gaining access and not bolt replacing. Like I said, we've only been here a few months. Don't really have time to go around hunting down access orgs.

Speechless. You are guiding in an area but obviously have no respect for and are openly antagonistic towards the groups that make your profession possible.

We have A LOT of respect for the area and that is why we approached the park service to address this bolt issue. You should read sentences completely. We also are pushing for the NC state parks to require an insurance certificate from guiding outfits when they guide in the state parks. Something they don't do now.

So, you move to a new area where you are unfamiliar with the access issues and the local organizations advocating for climbers, and within a few months you are informing the NC State Parks Service that the CCC is incompetent and lobbying for a change in the way they regulate guides. Did you reach out to anyone in the CCC (or the SCC) about your concerns first? Did you ever think that undermining the CCC you might be damaging access for everyone?
Apparently RC.com did something to our account, interesting. Anyway, are you serious ncrock climber? An organization rebolts with nail drive (the wrong bolts) in one of the weakest metamorphic rocks out there and they knew this while placing them but continued to place them throughout the park. I know this because after they hammered the pin in and realized it didn't set right they took a pointed tool and proceeded to hammer the pin in even FURTHER! I saw indents on every nail that they drove almost completely thru the sleeve. Making the anchor weaker than it originally was. These bolts are so close to the cliff edges that macro structure was obviously NOT a concern of theirs, one bolt if you clip a carabiner in it the spine rests on the cliff edge. Other bolts they replaced are SAE graded carbon steel bolts (3 slashes on the head) which have more rust on them than the titanic causing galvanic reaction to the clip. Why in the WORLD would I "reach out" to an organization that does this? Tell me that. They have no concern about climbing safety if this is how they "re-bolt" a local crag. I could go on about other bolts in this park if you'd like. If you're an organization representing the climbing community, as you say, wouldn't you hire professionals to change bolts? Or even call up a bolt manufacturer and ask them which bolt they recommend. The NC State Park service NEEDED to be aware of this and I hope they do something to change these bolts before someone gets seriously injured.

Unbelievable. A volunteer from an organization does something you disagree with, and you lambast two groups that have done more for climbing than you could ever hope to.


wonderwoman


May 1, 2012, 3:21 PM
Post #125 of 296 (4628 views)
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Registered: Dec 14, 2002
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Re: [Joey7777] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
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Joey7777 wrote:
Apparently RC.com did something to our account, interesting.

Did you just switch user names from NEGuiding? There are no bans on the other name. You need to pick one name and stay with it.

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