Forums: Climbing Information: Gear Heads:
The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Gear Heads

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next page Last page  View All


david_g48


May 2, 2012, 4:48 AM
Post #151 of 296 (4879 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 19, 2005
Posts: 54

Re: [patto] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Patto
I don't believe that this thread is about what is a superior safety set up for top rope but rather is the use of slings and webbing inadequate. Most of the responses are generated either because NEGuides pushes his opinion in an abrasive manner or that he provides no facts or stats to back up his claims. He talked about people learning from new information but he does not seem open to the opinions and facts from the responses, so how in fact has he demonstrated an ability to learn anything when he feels he knows all there is to know and contradicts his own beliefs via the pictures on his web site. If there is anything to be learned here it is that be gentle in expressing your opinion, be prepared to back it up with facts, and be open to others who have obvious credibility. RG, I believe in my humble opinion did the best presentation. I also believe that static rope is superior to webbing but do not feel that webbing is inherently inadequate.
There never is a singular solution for all situations. This is where judgment, knowledge and experience play into being able to safely set up a top rope.
This post is only my opinion and in no way I'm I trying to force my opinion on others.
Cheers David


meanandugly


May 2, 2012, 5:13 AM
Post #152 of 296 (4868 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 20, 2004
Posts: 312

Re: [patto] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

No one is saying that static is not the overall beefier choice, but there is nothing wrong with webbing. Saying you should always use webbing because of the added safety is like saying you should always travel in an armoured personal carrier instead of a car because you are more likely to survive a crash. If there were stats to back up the claim that webbing was anything less than safe, I am sure we would all use static all the time....I wonder how many people only use steel biners in their TR set-ups instead of those very unsafe aluminums?


chadnsc


May 2, 2012, 5:21 AM
Post #153 of 296 (4863 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 24, 2003
Posts: 4449

Re: [olderic] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

olderic wrote:
This thread is amazing and even if he never participates in another I am sure NEG has achieved cult status. Not even Enigma could so completely unite all the usually fragmented factions of rc.com in one universal front to deliver a ginormous slap down. In well < 24 hours he has taken himself and his business down in flames...

Truly NE's troll has united us all. Laugh


patto


May 2, 2012, 5:39 AM
Post #154 of 296 (4854 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2005
Posts: 1451

Re: [david_g48] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

david_g48 wrote:
Patto
I don't believe that this thread is about what is a superior safety set up for top rope but rather is the use of slings and webbing inadequate. Most of the responses are generated either because NEGuides pushes his opinion in an abrasive manner or that he provides no facts or stats to back up his claims. He talked about people learning from new information but he does not seem open to the opinions and facts from the responses, so how in fact has he demonstrated an ability to learn anything when he feels he knows all there is to know and contradicts his own beliefs via the pictures on his web site. If there is anything to be learned here it is that be gentle in expressing your opinion, be prepared to back it up with facts, and be open to others who have obvious credibility. RG, I believe in my humble opinion did the best presentation. I also believe that static rope is superior to webbing but do not feel that webbing is inherently inadequate.
There never is a singular solution for all situations. This is where judgment, knowledge and experience play into being able to safely set up a top rope.
This post is only my opinion and in no way I'm I trying to force my opinion on others.
Cheers David

Smile
Fair enough. Angelic

I just thought I'd chime in as I was one initiators of the static is better than webbing discussion before this thread blew up.

The reason why I bring it up at all is because in my opinion there are too many beginners being taught to use webbing when really static rope should be being taught as the preferential method. But yes, I, like I believe *most* people here don't believe webbing is inherently inadequate. I'd happily top rope off webbing if that was all I had.


bearbreeder


May 2, 2012, 6:51 AM
Post #155 of 296 (4801 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 1, 2009
Posts: 1960

Re: [olderic] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

i am utterly proud to be an RCer for the first time ever after this thread ...Shocked

off to skaha and yos for the next 3 weeks ... at least i got some good ole fashioned RC fun before i leave Wink


dynosore


May 2, 2012, 7:28 AM
Post #156 of 296 (4773 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 29, 2004
Posts: 1763

Re: [wonderwoman] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Has there EVER been a toprope anchor failure due to webbing, when the anchor was properly constructed? My definition of proper is at least two separate anchor points and two separate loops of tubular webbing. Didn't think so Tongue


csproul


May 2, 2012, 7:57 AM
Post #157 of 296 (4760 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1768

Re: [NEGuiding] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

NEGuiding wrote:
John I'm glad the safety of other climbers is not a concern of yours by the information about bolts I just addressed to you. That makes me think very low of you because this is not a concern of yours. RC.com disabled our pwd wonderwoman, guess a moderator had an issue with something we said.
Did you bother to contact the CCC or SEC with your concerns about the bolts at Crowders or did you just go straight to the State Parks? Do you even know that one of these organizations had anything to do with the bolting of those routes? Because I can tell you for sure that while the CCC has supported re-bolting efforts at State Parks, that does not mean that they have been intimately involved with the individual (volunteer) efforts to do so.


markc


May 2, 2012, 8:11 AM
Post #158 of 296 (4739 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2475

Re: [patto] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'm one of those folks who was taught to use webbing years back, and still do for the occasional top-rope session. I have partners who prefer static, and they're welcome to carry it in. In this neck of the woods, many of the TR anchors utilize trees. Some of these can be a decent way back from the cliff edge, and I find it easier to pack in 60-90' of webbing rather than static line. I know there's a trade-off with durability, and I take care to pad edges.

Since I've never had an issue for finding ways to use retired webbing around the house, its more limited lifespan hasn't been a significant enough concern to switch over. I can always cut down a badly abraded section and use the remaining length. Because of the more significant abrasion risk, I inspect webbing visually and physically before each use.


bp_ccc


May 2, 2012, 8:16 AM
Post #159 of 296 (4734 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 2, 2012
Posts: 1

Re: [NEGuiding] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (9 ratings)  
Can't Post

NEGuiding wrote:
Rather not mention any names, I respect the company you mentioned and no it's not them. We've only been in the NC area for a few months. And We don't support the only access org down here, the SECC because of the bolting issue they did at Crowders Mntn. Clearly shows their lack of knowledge and you can contact Petzl on that matter. The SECC put Petzl long life bolts into kyanite quartzite stone at Crowders, WRONG choice for that type of rock and Petzl sent us a letter confirming it that we showed to the state park service.


I'm Brian Payst and I am a board member for the Carolina Climbers Coalition (CCC) and have been for several years. This reference to CCC bolting work at Crowder's came up in a google alert and I wanted to clarify things. The SCC has not done bolt replacement work at Crowders, the CCC has (at this and other state parks). The Petzl long life bolts that are referred to by NEGuiding were not placed by the CCC.

At the request of the state park (with whom we have built up a great relationship over the years that resulted in opening up the Dixon Road area to bouldering) we sponsored some bolt replacements at Crowder's. We also paid for, and volunteers built, the climber information kiosks. Because of the nature of the rock, glue in bolts were used in the replacements at Crowder's. Not every bolt was replaced and there have been a lot of folks bolting at Crowder's over the years. Everyone should use good judgement when trusting any gear, fixed or otherwise. When in doubt, back it up or down climb.

Thanks to everyone in this discussion who expressed support for the CCC, we're just a bunch of volunteers trying to keep climbing areas open in the Carolinas and wouldn't be as successful as we have been if not for the incredible climbing community we have.


csproul


May 2, 2012, 8:33 AM
Post #160 of 296 (4715 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1768

Re: [bp_ccc] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

bp_ccc wrote:
NEGuiding wrote:
Rather not mention any names, I respect the company you mentioned and no it's not them. We've only been in the NC area for a few months. And We don't support the only access org down here, the SECC because of the bolting issue they did at Crowders Mntn. Clearly shows their lack of knowledge and you can contact Petzl on that matter. The SECC put Petzl long life bolts into kyanite quartzite stone at Crowders, WRONG choice for that type of rock and Petzl sent us a letter confirming it that we showed to the state park service.


I'm Brian Payst and I am a board member for the Carolina Climbers Coalition (CCC) and have been for several years. This reference to CCC bolting work at Crowder's came up in a google alert and I wanted to clarify things. The SCC has not done bolt replacement work at Crowders, the CCC has (at this and other state parks). The Petzl long life bolts that are referred to by NEGuiding were not placed by the CCC.

At the request of the state park (with whom we have built up a great relationship over the years that resulted in opening up the Dixon Road area to bouldering) we sponsored some bolt replacements at Crowder's. We also paid for, and volunteers built, the climber information kiosks. Because of the nature of the rock, glue in bolts were used in the replacements at Crowder's. Not every bolt was replaced and there have been a lot of folks bolting at Crowder's over the years. Everyone should use good judgement when trusting any gear, fixed or otherwise. When in doubt, back it up or down climb.

Thanks to everyone in this discussion who expressed support for the CCC, we're just a bunch of volunteers trying to keep climbing areas open in the Carolinas and wouldn't be as successful as we have been if not for the incredible climbing community we have.
Thanks Brian for clearing that up. I was hoping that someone from the CCC would correct these clearly bullshit claims on the part of Joseph Vulpis/NEG. As someone who claims to guide in the Carolinas, he is doing a great disservice to himself and the climbing community by not working with the CCC. The CCC has clearly done great things for NC climbing and I would hope that any NC climber, especially one that wants to guide in the state, would show their support.


majid_sabet


May 2, 2012, 9:23 AM
Post #161 of 296 (4681 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 8360

Re: [dynosore] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

dynosore wrote:
Has there EVER been a toprope anchor failure due to webbing, when the anchor was properly constructed? My definition of proper is at least two separate anchor points and two separate loops of tubular webbing. Didn't think so Tongue

in 2010 two climbers died when their well constructed TR anchor failed and that was not because of the webbing material but the splice that was in the webbing from newly purchased spool and the report was post in I&A

There were also reports of rap anchor failure due old age of webbing with fatality involved but other than that, I never heard of one good constructed TR or trad anchor fail due to webbing.

We use webbing almost every time when constructing rescue anchors that by far are rigged for more forces and if constructing anchor with webbing was an issue, we would had been in deep sh*t a long time ago.

A typical 1" mil grade 4400lbs rated webbing is as safe as it could get as long as you leave min 3 " tail after the proper tying knot and well guarded against sharp edges, chemical and heat.


ncrockclimber


May 2, 2012, 9:23 AM
Post #162 of 296 (4684 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2006
Posts: 278

Re: [csproul] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

I am glad that someone from the CCC chimed in. It has been said before, but is worth repeating; the CCC does great work and has a great reputation in North Carolina.

Joseph 'Joey' Vulpis of Northeast Mountain Guiding, you have yet to back-up the extreme claims you have made about "webbing or spectra/dyneema slings." You have backpedaled from your original stance, deleted and edited some of your posts, engaged in ad hominem attacks against those who disagreed with you, yet you have not provided any significant evidence to support your claims. Even more amazing, you have photos on your site and facebook page of your guides using anchors containing both webbing and spectra / dyneema slings. Those same pictures also show some questionable safety practices, like anchoring clients with a single non-locking carabiner.

You have falsely accused me of being from a rival NC guide service. Again, I live in Phoenix and have never worked as a guide. You have also negatively characterized your competition as "egotistical guide service." and claimed that you are now capturing 80 - 90% of the NC guiding business. Although I don't have data, I would say that all empirical evidence points to that being a totally inaccurate statement.

You have falsely accused the CCC of doing a poor bolting job with incorrect bolts and claimed that they have "no concern about climbing safety." Without ever talking to anyone at the CCC, you have gone to the NC Park Service repeated these false allegations.

Although you are a Board Member of the PCGI, the certification claims that you make on your site do not match the qualification claims on the PCGI site.

I wanted to lay all this out here in one post in hopes that a potential client who Googles Joseph 'Joey' Vulpis or Northeast Mountain Guiding will see exactly who and what you are. I also hope that individuals that are considering certification with PCGI will see this. If Joey is representative of the rest of the leadership of the PCGI, then I would seriously question any association with the PCGI. That is just my opinion, but organizations are usually a reflection of their leadership.

There are a lot of great guides and guiding services in NC. There are a lot of great organizations that can help beginning climbers to gain the skills necessary to safely enjoy climbing. In my opinion, based on the posts he has made on this site, Joseph 'Joey' Vulpis, Northeast Mountain Guiding and the PCGI are not a good choice for individuals looking for guiding services and training.


markc


May 2, 2012, 9:42 AM
Post #163 of 296 (4654 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2475

Re: [majid_sabet] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

majid_sabet wrote:
dynosore wrote:
Has there EVER been a toprope anchor failure due to webbing, when the anchor was properly constructed? My definition of proper is at least two separate anchor points and two separate loops of tubular webbing. Didn't think so Tongue

in 2010 two climbers died when their well constructed TR anchor failed and that was not because of the webbing material but the splice that was in the webbing from newly purchased spool and the report was post in I&A

This is a tangent, but worth pointing out for climbers who may not be aware of splices in spools of webbing. There was another incident of spliced webbing separating at the Happy Hour Crag in 2000. A pdf of the report is here:

http://www.rockymountainrescue.org/...alysisHappyHour1.pdf

I don't recall the details of the accident you're referring to, Majid. I'd argue that if one element of the anchor failing causes a catastrophic failure, it's not well-constructed.


wonderwoman


May 2, 2012, 9:44 AM
Post #164 of 296 (4649 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4269

Re: [majid_sabet] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

majid_sabet wrote:
dynosore wrote:
Has there EVER been a toprope anchor failure due to webbing, when the anchor was properly constructed? My definition of proper is at least two separate anchor points and two separate loops of tubular webbing. Didn't think so Tongue

in 2010 two climbers died when their well constructed TR anchor failed and that was not because of the webbing material but the splice that was in the webbing from newly purchased spool and the report was post in I&A

I can understand how one person (the climber) could die during a top rope anchor failure. But how did two people die in the same top rope accident?


NEGuiding


May 2, 2012, 9:53 AM
Post #165 of 296 (4631 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 17, 2009
Posts: 48

Re: [ncrockclimber] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (7 ratings)  
Can't Post

So I'd like to apologize for some misunderstandings and misconstruing in this thread. My own opinion and personal preference to choose static line over webbing is from personal guiding and rescue experience in the crags where my company guides in and trains in. The rock type we have at hand is very abrasive so extending anchors with webbing is not the best and safest option. My professional opinion.

To clear a couple other things up, I market, host and sell PCGI courses for approved East coast providers/mentors and I do NOT directly teach these courses. PCGI does NOT frown upon webbing. I am a Board of Directors member for PCGI, hence I am part of the team on a busness level and NOT on a technical development or educational level. I am not a certified PCGI guide. The reasons why I don't use it nor do any of my guides is clearly stated above.

So again, I apologize for any misunderstandings on this issue and just stress to choose the right material for the right application when extending top rope anchors. That is my opinion and NOT the opinions of PCGI. Unfortunately this thread was blown way out of proportion for various reasons which some were mine by not making myself clear enough and getting angry at some of the posters in here who seem to enjoy picking things apart in an argumentative manner. Again, my mistake for not making myself clear.

I hope this is read over correctly and I made my point/opinion showing that it is NOT something PCGI supports.

Thanks,
Joey


majid_sabet


May 2, 2012, 10:00 AM
Post #166 of 296 (4619 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 8360

Re: [wonderwoman] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

wonderwoman wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
dynosore wrote:
Has there EVER been a toprope anchor failure due to webbing, when the anchor was properly constructed? My definition of proper is at least two separate anchor points and two separate loops of tubular webbing. Didn't think so Tongue

in 2010 two climbers died when their well constructed TR anchor failed and that was not because of the webbing material but the splice that was in the webbing from newly purchased spool and the report was post in I&A

I can understand how one person (the climber) could die during a top rope anchor failure. But how did two people die in the same top rope accident?

This was two years and it was well discussed in I&A and if I could recall correctly, two climbers reached the anchor from top and set their rig and one lost his footing and fell while both were attached to the same anchor and webbing just came apart.

An anchor must be constructed in away that should handle the static forces of two climbers falling simultaneously at the same time(20kn+) and it shouldn't make any difference whether is build for TR, trad or rap, etc .


csproul


May 2, 2012, 10:05 AM
Post #167 of 296 (4608 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 4, 2004
Posts: 1768

Re: [NEGuiding] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (5 ratings)  
Can't Post

NEGuiding wrote:
So I'd like to apologize for some misunderstandings and misconstruing in this thread. My own opinion and personal preference to choose static line over webbing is from personal guiding and rescue experience in the crags where my company guides in and trains in. The rock type we have at hand is very abrasive so extending anchors with webbing is not the best and safest option. My professional opinion.

To clear a couple other things up, I market, host and sell PCGI courses for approved East coast providers/mentors and I do NOT directly teach these courses. PCGI does NOT frown upon webbing. I am a Board of Directors member for PCGI, hence I am part of the team on a busness level and NOT on a technical development or educational level. I am not a certified PCGI guide. The reasons why I don't use it nor do any of my guides is clearly stated above.

So again, I apologize for any misunderstandings on this issue and just stress to choose the right material for the right application when extending top rope anchors. That is my opinion and NOT the opinions of PCGI. Unfortunately this thread was blown way out of proportion for various reasons which some were mine by not making myself clear enough and getting angry at some of the posters in here who seem to enjoy picking things apart in an argumentative manner. Again, my mistake for not making myself clear.

I hope this is read over correctly and I made my point/opinion showing that it is NOT something PCGI supports.

Thanks,
Joey
There was really no misunderstanding. You made bullshit claims, you have misrepresented your experience/training, you've reacted in an unprofessional manner when confronted on these matters, and you've pretty much made every effort to alienate the NC climbing community by making further unsubstantiated accusations about the CCC/SEC. We understood perfectly clear what you meant...that is not a misunderstanding...this is just plain old back-pedaling to try and save some reputation. Unsuccessfully, I might add.


majid_sabet


May 2, 2012, 10:06 AM
Post #168 of 296 (4604 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 8360

Re: [NEGuiding] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

NEGuiding wrote:
So I'd like to apologize for some misunderstandings and misconstruing in this thread. My own opinion and personal preference to choose static line over webbing is from personal guiding and rescue experience in the crags where my company guides in and trains in. The rock type we have at hand is very abrasive so extending anchors with webbing is not the best and safest option. My professional opinion.

To clear a couple other things up, I market, host and sell PCGI courses for approved East coast providers/mentors and I do NOT directly teach these courses. PCGI does NOT frown upon webbing. I am a Board of Directors member for PCGI, hence I am part of the team on a busness level and NOT on a technical development or educational level. I am not a certified PCGI guide. The reasons why I don't use it nor do any of my guides is clearly stated above.

So again, I apologize for any misunderstandings on this issue and just stress to choose the right material for the right application when extending top rope anchors. That is my opinion and NOT the opinions of PCGI. Unfortunately this thread was blown way out of proportion for various reasons which some were mine by not making myself clear enough and getting angry at some of the posters in here who seem to enjoy picking things apart in an argumentative manner. Again, my mistake for not making myself clear.

I hope this is read over correctly and I made my point/opinion showing that it is NOT something PCGI supports.

Thanks,
Joey


There are a lot people with strong technical knowledge in every corner of this site reading and watching what people say and I think its little too late for damage control.

I hope you take notes and learn from what people are here to offer.

MS


jt512


May 2, 2012, 10:09 AM
Post #169 of 296 (4596 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21892

Re: [NEGuiding] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

NEGuiding wrote:
So I'd like to apologize for some misunderstandings and misconstruing in this thread. My own opinion and personal preference to choose static line over webbing is from personal guiding and rescue experience in the crags where my company guides in and trains in. The rock type we have at hand is very abrasive so extending anchors with webbing is not the best and safest option. My professional opinion.

To clear a couple other things up, I market, host and sell PCGI courses for approved East coast providers/mentors and I do NOT directly teach these courses. PCGI does NOT frown upon webbing. I am a Board of Directors member for PCGI, hence I am part of the team on a busness level and NOT on a technical development or educational level. I am not a certified PCGI guide. The reasons why I don't use it nor do any of my guides is clearly stated above.

So again, I apologize for any misunderstandings on this issue and just stress to choose the right material for the right application when extending top rope anchors. That is my opinion and NOT the opinions of PCGI. Unfortunately this thread was blown way out of proportion for various reasons which some were mine by not making myself clear enough and getting angry at some of the posters in here who seem to enjoy picking things apart in an argumentative manner. Again, my mistake for not making myself clear.

I hope this is read over correctly and I made my point/opinion showing that it is NOT something PCGI supports.

Thanks,
Joey

So, the PCGI is a for-profit organization that sells courses leading to its own "certification."

jay


ncrockclimber


May 2, 2012, 10:17 AM
Post #170 of 296 (4573 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2006
Posts: 278

Re: [csproul] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

csproul wrote:
There was really no misunderstanding. You made bullshit claims, you have misrepresented your experience/training, you've reacted in an unprofessional manner when confronted on these matters, and you've pretty much made every effort to alienate the NC climbing community by making further unsubstantiated accusations about the CCC/SEC. We understood perfectly clear what you meant...that is not a misunderstanding...this is just plain old back-pedaling to try and save some reputation. Unsuccessfully, I might add.

+1

I could not have said it better!

I will add one more thing. Joseph 'Joey' Vulpis of Northeast Mountain Guiding is a member of the Board of Directors of the PCGI. Based on the behaviors and the false claims that he has made, I would seriously question the judgement of any organization that would place him in a leadership position. At the beginning of this thread, I had no knowledge of the PCGI. Based on what I have seen here, I have a very negative impression of that organization.

edit for typo


(This post was edited by ncrockclimber on May 2, 2012, 10:19 AM)


curt


May 2, 2012, 10:24 AM
Post #171 of 296 (4556 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18230

Re: [NEGuiding] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (4 ratings)  
Can't Post

NEGuiding wrote:
So I'd like to apologize for some misunderstandings and misconstruing in this thread. My own opinion and personal preference to choose static line over webbing is from personal guiding and rescue experience in the crags where my company guides in and trains in. The rock type we have at hand is very abrasive so extending anchors with webbing is not the best and safest option. My professional opinion.

To clear a couple other things up, I market, host and sell PCGI courses for approved East coast providers/mentors and I do NOT directly teach these courses. PCGI does NOT frown upon webbing. I am a Board of Directors member for PCGI, hence I am part of the team on a busness level and NOT on a technical development or educational level. I am not a certified PCGI guide. The reasons why I don't use it nor do any of my guides is clearly stated above.

So again, I apologize for any misunderstandings on this issue and just stress to choose the right material for the right application when extending top rope anchors. That is my opinion and NOT the opinions of PCGI. Unfortunately this thread was blown way out of proportion for various reasons which some were mine by not making myself clear enough and getting angry at some of the posters in here who seem to enjoy picking things apart in an argumentative manner. Again, my mistake for not making myself clear.

I hope this is read over correctly and I made my point/opinion showing that it is NOT something PCGI supports.

Thanks,
Joey

I personally have no problem accepting your apology and it seems quite sincere to me. Also, while there is clearly no point in beating a dead horse any further--I hope you realize that much of the conflict in this thread could have avoided if you had only said some of this earlier.

Curt


NEGuiding


May 2, 2012, 10:26 AM
Post #172 of 296 (4546 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 17, 2009
Posts: 48

Re: [curt] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Thanks Curt, and yes I realize that now. Definitely will make myself clear and precise in the future.


redlude97


May 2, 2012, 10:39 AM
Post #173 of 296 (4517 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 27, 2008
Posts: 990

Re: [NEGuiding] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

NEGuiding wrote:
To clear a couple other things up, I market, host and sell PCGI courses for approved East coast providers/mentors and I do NOT directly teach these courses. PCGI does NOT frown upon webbing. I am a Board of Directors member for PCGI, hence I am part of the team on a busness level and NOT on a technical development or educational level. I am not a certified PCGI guide. The reasons why I don't use it nor do any of my guides is clearly stated above.
Just to be crystal clear. You don't teach PCGI courses because you do not condone their use of webbing, but have no problem making money off of them by pawning off their certifications. Glad to see money is such a great motivator.



Partner cracklover


May 2, 2012, 10:39 AM
Post #174 of 296 (4516 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10030

Re: [wonderwoman] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I won't comment further on NEGuiding's outrageous nonsense. I think that has been addressed as well online as can be. I do feel it appropriate to add that actions in the real world are much more relevant at this stage. I have noted that his outfit has very little presence in CO, but does have one course planned here this year. If you are interested in finding out about the presence of his outfit in your neck of the woods, you should be able to find info on their website here: http://www.northeastmountainguiding.com/course_calendar

Enough said about that. Moving on...

wonderwoman wrote:
Please discuss your webbing vs. top rope issues here.

For myself, I don't toprope much, but I do create TR anchors on occasion when working out the prospects for a new sport line. My anchoring material is mostly 1" mil spec tubular webbing and a beefy (11.5mm) PMI static rope. Though the rope is of course much stronger, that additional strength provides no additional benefit within the usage I put it to. So I essentially use the two interchangeably.

Of course I am very careful to pad edges, and/or insure that the material is not running over any sharp edges before I start my work. Any rock can wear through nylon quickly, but most of what I've been doing has been on limestone, which is often extremely sharp. While my static rope might arguably stand up to such edges better, there is no way I would feel any more comfortable hanging from the business end of it unless I treated it exactly as I do webbing: if it may run over a sharp or abrasive edge, it should be padded.

So, in short, I see no reason to change anything I do, but I would certainly welcome additional info, and would immediately change my tune if any of it held up to scrutiny.

And believe me, I have no particular bias towards webbing. I once built a bottom (lead solo) anchor that utilized a huge boulder in a talus field. I had to reach way down into the talus to get the webbing under it, and didn't notice until later how sharp one edge of the boulder was. By the time I came to take the anchor down, the one inch webbing was cut 1/3 of the way through in two places. Spooky!

Then again, I have mangled a static line, too. Once I was hauling a pig where the static anchor line the pulley was attached to rubbed over a rock. The severe force needed to haul the pig caused the static line to stretch back and forth enough to rub over the rock part way through the sheath before I wised up and padded it with my shirt.

GO


majid_sabet


May 2, 2012, 10:53 AM
Post #175 of 296 (4493 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 8360

Re: [markc] The webbing vs static rope tope rope set up debate [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

markc wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
dynosore wrote:
Has there EVER been a toprope anchor failure due to webbing, when the anchor was properly constructed? My definition of proper is at least two separate anchor points and two separate loops of tubular webbing. Didn't think so Tongue

in 2010 two climbers died when their well constructed TR anchor failed and that was not because of the webbing material but the splice that was in the webbing from newly purchased spool and the report was post in I&A

This is a tangent, but worth pointing out for climbers who may not be aware of splices in spools of webbing. There was another incident of spliced webbing separating at the Happy Hour Crag in 2000. A pdf of the report is here:

http://www.rockymountainrescue.org/...alysisHappyHour1.pdf

I don't recall the details of the accident you're referring to, Majid. I'd argue that if one element of the anchor failing causes a catastrophic failure, it's not well-constructed.

Interesting document .I bought several spool of webbing off ebay and every one of them had some sort of splice covered by a tape on it however, the spool had a orange tag on them "saying splice in the webbing".


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on May 2, 2012, 10:54 AM)

First page Previous page 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Information : Gear Heads

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?
$71.96 (10% off)
$137.70 (10% off)
$144.71 (10% off)
$13.46 (10% off)



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook