This thread is amazing and even if he never participates in another I am sure NEG has achieved cult status. Not even Enigma could so completely unite all the usually fragmented factions of rc.com in one universal front to deliver a ginormous slap down. In well < 24 hours he has taken himself and his business down in flames...

Patto
I don't believe that this thread is about what is a superior safety set up for top rope but rather is the use of slings and webbing inadequate. Most of the responses are generated either because NEGuides pushes his opinion in an abrasive manner or that he provides no facts or stats to back up his claims. He talked about people learning from new information but he does not seem open to the opinions and facts from the responses, so how in fact has he demonstrated an ability to learn anything when he feels he knows all there is to know and contradicts his own beliefs via the pictures on his web site. If there is anything to be learned here it is that be gentle in expressing your opinion, be prepared to back it up with facts, and be open to others who have obvious credibility. RG, I believe in my humble opinion did the best presentation. I also believe that static rope is superior to webbing but do not feel that webbing is inherently inadequate.
There never is a singular solution for all situations. This is where judgment, knowledge and experience play into being able to safely set up a top rope.
This post is only my opinion and in no way I'm I trying to force my opinion on others.
Cheers David

John I'm glad the safety of other climbers is not a concern of yours by the information about bolts I just addressed to you. That makes me think very low of you because this is not a concern of yours. RC.com disabled our pwd wonderwoman, guess a moderator had an issue with something we said.

Rather not mention any names, I respect the company you mentioned and no it's not them. We've only been in the NC area for a few months. And We don't support the only access org down here, the SECC because of the bolting issue they did at Crowders Mntn. Clearly shows their lack of knowledge and you can contact Petzl on that matter. The SECC put Petzl long life bolts into kyanite quartzite stone at Crowders, WRONG choice for that type of rock and Petzl sent us a letter confirming it that we showed to the state park service.

I'm Brian Payst and I am a board member for the Carolina Climbers Coalition (CCC) and have been for several years. This reference to CCC bolting work at Crowder's came up in a google alert and I wanted to clarify things. The SCC has not done bolt replacement work at Crowders, the CCC has (at this and other state parks). The Petzl long life bolts that are referred to by NEGuiding were not placed by the CCC.

At the request of the state park (with whom we have built up a great relationship over the years that resulted in opening up the Dixon Road area to bouldering) we sponsored some bolt replacements at Crowder's. We also paid for, and volunteers built, the climber information kiosks. Because of the nature of the rock, glue in bolts were used in the replacements at Crowder's. Not every bolt was replaced and there have been a lot of folks bolting at Crowder's over the years. Everyone should use good judgement when trusting any gear, fixed or otherwise. When in doubt, back it up or down climb.

Thanks to everyone in this discussion who expressed support for the CCC, we're just a bunch of volunteers trying to keep climbing areas open in the Carolinas and wouldn't be as successful as we have been if not for the incredible climbing community we have.

Has there EVER been a toprope anchor failure due to webbing, when the anchor was properly constructed? My definition of proper is at least two separate anchor points and two separate loops of tubular webbing. Didn't think so

in 2010 two climbers died when their well constructed TR anchor failed and that was not because of the webbing material but the splice that was in the webbing from newly purchased spool and the report was post in I&A

in 2010 two climbers died when their well constructed TR anchor failed and that was not because of the webbing material but the splice that was in the webbing from newly purchased spool and the report was post in I&A

I can understand how one person (the climber) could die during a top rope anchor failure. But how did two people die in the same top rope accident?

So I'd like to apologize for some misunderstandings and misconstruing in this thread. My own opinion and personal preference to choose static line over webbing is from personal guiding and rescue experience in the crags where my company guides in and trains in. The rock type we have at hand is very abrasive so extending anchors with webbing is not the best and safest option. My professional opinion.

To clear a couple other things up, I market, host and sell PCGI courses for approved East coast providers/mentors and I do NOT directly teach these courses. PCGI does NOT frown upon webbing. I am a Board of Directors member for PCGI, hence I am part of the team on a busness level and NOT on a technical development or educational level. I am not a certified PCGI guide. The reasons why I don't use it nor do any of my guides is clearly stated above.

So again, I apologize for any misunderstandings on this issue and just stress to choose the right material for the right application when extending top rope anchors. That is my opinion and NOT the opinions of PCGI. Unfortunately this thread was blown way out of proportion for various reasons which some were mine by not making myself clear enough and getting angry at some of the posters in here who seem to enjoy picking things apart in an argumentative manner. Again, my mistake for not making myself clear.

I hope this is read over correctly and I made my point/opinion showing that it is NOT something PCGI supports.

Thanks,
Joey

So I'd like to apologize for some misunderstandings and misconstruing in this thread. My own opinion and personal preference to choose static line over webbing is from personal guiding and rescue experience in the crags where my company guides in and trains in. The rock type we have at hand is very abrasive so extending anchors with webbing is not the best and safest option. My professional opinion.

To clear a couple other things up, I market, host and sell PCGI courses for approved East coast providers/mentors and I do NOT directly teach these courses. PCGI does NOT frown upon webbing. I am a Board of Directors member for PCGI, hence I am part of the team on a busness level and NOT on a technical development or educational level. I am not a certified PCGI guide. The reasons why I don't use it nor do any of my guides is clearly stated above.

So again, I apologize for any misunderstandings on this issue and just stress to choose the right material for the right application when extending top rope anchors. That is my opinion and NOT the opinions of PCGI. Unfortunately this thread was blown way out of proportion for various reasons which some were mine by not making myself clear enough and getting angry at some of the posters in here who seem to enjoy picking things apart in an argumentative manner. Again, my mistake for not making myself clear.

I hope this is read over correctly and I made my point/opinion showing that it is NOT something PCGI supports.

Thanks,
Joey

So I'd like to apologize for some misunderstandings and misconstruing in this thread. My own opinion and personal preference to choose static line over webbing is from personal guiding and rescue experience in the crags where my company guides in and trains in. The rock type we have at hand is very abrasive so extending anchors with webbing is not the best and safest option. My professional opinion.

To clear a couple other things up, I market, host and sell PCGI courses for approved East coast providers/mentors and I do NOT directly teach these courses. PCGI does NOT frown upon webbing. I am a Board of Directors member for PCGI, hence I am part of the team on a busness level and NOT on a technical development or educational level. I am not a certified PCGI guide. The reasons why I don't use it nor do any of my guides is clearly stated above.

So again, I apologize for any misunderstandings on this issue and just stress to choose the right material for the right application when extending top rope anchors. That is my opinion and NOT the opinions of PCGI. Unfortunately this thread was blown way out of proportion for various reasons which some were mine by not making myself clear enough and getting angry at some of the posters in here who seem to enjoy picking things apart in an argumentative manner. Again, my mistake for not making myself clear.

I hope this is read over correctly and I made my point/opinion showing that it is NOT something PCGI supports.

Thanks,
Joey

There was really no misunderstanding. You made bullshit claims, you have misrepresented your experience/training, you've reacted in an unprofessional manner when confronted on these matters, and you've pretty much made every effort to alienate the NC climbing community by making further unsubstantiated accusations about the CCC/SEC. We understood perfectly clear what you meant...that is not a misunderstanding...this is just plain old back-pedaling to try and save some reputation. Unsuccessfully, I might add.

So I'd like to apologize for some misunderstandings and misconstruing in this thread. My own opinion and personal preference to choose static line over webbing is from personal guiding and rescue experience in the crags where my company guides in and trains in. The rock type we have at hand is very abrasive so extending anchors with webbing is not the best and safest option. My professional opinion.

To clear a couple other things up, I market, host and sell PCGI courses for approved East coast providers/mentors and I do NOT directly teach these courses. PCGI does NOT frown upon webbing. I am a Board of Directors member for PCGI, hence I am part of the team on a busness level and NOT on a technical development or educational level. I am not a certified PCGI guide. The reasons why I don't use it nor do any of my guides is clearly stated above.

So again, I apologize for any misunderstandings on this issue and just stress to choose the right material for the right application when extending top rope anchors. That is my opinion and NOT the opinions of PCGI. Unfortunately this thread was blown way out of proportion for various reasons which some were mine by not making myself clear enough and getting angry at some of the posters in here who seem to enjoy picking things apart in an argumentative manner. Again, my mistake for not making myself clear.

I hope this is read over correctly and I made my point/opinion showing that it is NOT something PCGI supports.

Thanks,
Joey

To clear a couple other things up, I market, host and sell PCGI courses for approved East coast providers/mentors and I do NOT directly teach these courses. PCGI does NOT frown upon webbing. I am a Board of Directors member for PCGI, hence I am part of the team on a busness level and NOT on a technical development or educational level. I am not a certified PCGI guide. The reasons why I don't use it nor do any of my guides is clearly stated above.

Please discuss your webbing vs. top rope issues here.

This is a tangent, but worth pointing out for climbers who may not be aware of splices in spools of webbing. There was another incident of spliced webbing separating at the Happy Hour Crag in 2000. A pdf of the report is here:

http://www.rockymountainrescue.org/...alysisHappyHour1.pdf

I don't recall the details of the accident you're referring to, Majid. I'd argue that if one element of the anchor failing causes a catastrophic failure, it's not well-constructed.