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zealotnoob


Jun 27, 2012, 2:08 PM
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Running Daily and Training for Climbing
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I've started running before work 4 or 5 days during the week in a bid to become more lean, and eventually improve my climbing. I'm two weeks in, and I've found that I just can't pull as hard when I climb at the gym in the evening.

Can anyone speak to this? Is this just my energy levels adjusting, or does running the same day you climb fundamentally curb your ability?


shockabuku


Jun 27, 2012, 3:51 PM
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zealotnoob wrote:
I've started running before work 4 or 5 days during the week in a bid to become more lean, and eventually improve my climbing. I'm two weeks in, and I've found that I just can't pull as hard when I climb at the gym in the evening.

Can anyone speak to this? Is this just my energy levels adjusting, or does running the same day you climb fundamentally curb your ability?

When I work out earlier in the day prior to climbing it sometimes seems to effect my later performance. Usually it happens if I wait too late in the day and don't have enough recovery time between (<4-5 hrs.). A not too intense run early in the day seems to be okay.


wmshub


Jun 27, 2012, 4:58 PM
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When I run more than 2 or 3 days a week, I don't get enough time to recover and start feeling worn out all the time. Probably good for weight loss, not so good for being at my best strength.


sungam


Jun 28, 2012, 12:43 AM
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I find that as long as I drink plenty of water and sports drinks and have 4 or more hours of rest between riding hard and climbing it's not really noticeable. In fact I often climb better since I feel more flexible (I stretch after riding).


granite_grrl


Jun 28, 2012, 4:43 AM
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Very likely your energy levels are adjusting. You'll have to feel it out, likely 4-5 days a week is a little too intense to start off with. Either you'll burn out at this pace or your body will get used to it and you can continue.


zealotnoob


Jun 28, 2012, 7:19 AM
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Thanks all.

Was reading around and saw that Sasha DiGuilian runs "6 8 miles about 5 days a week to maintain stamina." That blows my mind. I've got work to do.


rhythm164


Jun 28, 2012, 7:39 AM
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you probably shouldn't compare yourself to Sasha DiGulian. You're probably overdoing it. I've tried to do cardio and train in the gym in the same day, and I find that it just doesn't really work, at least for me. You'd might be better off scaling back the running to non-climbing days and modifiying your diet to help achieve your weight loss goals. Give yourself some time to recover, but I guess that depends on how far your daily runs are. What sort of mileage do yo uput down in the morning?


zealotnoob


Jun 28, 2012, 8:09 AM
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The first week it was 2.5 mile runs. This week its been 3 miles runs. So it's pretty low mileage. I'll keep this level until my energy comes up.


rhythm164


Jun 28, 2012, 3:09 PM
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Yea, I wouldn't think that kind of mileage would be detrimental. Have you thought about going at night after the gym?


bentgate03


Jul 9, 2012, 9:06 AM
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That is not a lot of mileage. I would look at your diet assuming you are in good enough shape to be doing what you are trying.

Water, diet. What are you eating and drinking on those days after your run? Before you climb?

You are problably not getting enough calories.


zealotnoob


Jul 9, 2012, 12:34 PM
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I seem to have bounced back. Mileage is up to around 20 a week, and the gym sessions are improving. Though I've changed my schedule so I run the mornings I don't go to the gym. I'll continue to play with the schedule as I add miles.

I've been drinking a lot more water and eating a bit more. I need to do better about having some good food available after the gym, which is quite late. I usually metro home, which takes at hour, then wolf something down before crashing.


(This post was edited by zealotnoob on Jul 9, 2012, 1:33 PM)


gblauer
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Jul 9, 2012, 1:00 PM
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can you bring a high quality protein bar to the gym? Eat it on the way home, top it with high protein cereal, yougurt, fruit before bed?


zealotnoob


Jul 9, 2012, 1:31 PM
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I need to do something like that. Though, I've been trying to avoid products like protein bars, and keep with real, mostly vegan, food (and when I diverge I would like it to be in the form of dry-aged, grassfed ribeye). I should probably load up on trailmix.


(This post was edited by zealotnoob on Jul 9, 2012, 1:43 PM)


gblauer
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Jul 9, 2012, 1:37 PM
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I feel the same way, in fact, I have been a vegetarian for 43 years. That said, sometimes convenience rules. Even things like Kind Bars have good protein (nuts).


T_Nix35


Jul 13, 2012, 7:29 AM
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I would not eat fruit before bed because of the sugars in it. Although they are natural sugars you are not going to be doing anything but rebuilding muscle while you sleep so the sugars may be stored as fat if you eat too much. I know whenever I get done working out I come home and eat like some tuna salad or chicken with some type of vegetable. That way I am getting protein and carbs so i can rebuild my muscle while my body rests. Hey I also have a question for the OP how are you motivating yourself to get up and run everyday? Are you just sucking it up or are you like mentally preparing your self? Or whatever you do I would like to know so I can try it because I stink at making myself run.


eric_k


Jul 13, 2012, 7:59 AM
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In a average week I will run anywhere between 4 and 8 miles 5 days a week, and one of those is usually a long run 15+ miles. For a short time it affected my climbing, but now I have adjusted and I do my low intensity endurance workouts on running days. If I am doing a strength workout or climbing outside I do it on non running days. If I am getting enough sleep and eating well running does not seem to hold me back with climbing. Now that my body has adjusted I think that doing two workouts, run/climb, in one day really helps prepare for long days in the mountains where they may be a long strenuous approach before the climbing even starts.

Others probably know more than me, but I am not to sure that running will help much for general crag climbing, other than weight loss. Running works a completely different system in my body then climbing does. I only do it because love trail running, and it is good for alpine climbing. All of my friends who are much stronger then me keep telling saying that if I put half of my running time into more climbing training I could be much stronger as well.

Do any of you out there think that running has helped your climbing beyond weight loss?


mheyman


Jul 15, 2012, 6:59 AM
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eric_k wrote:
Do any of you out there think that running has helped your climbing beyond weight loss?

Absolutely and not just a little bit. I try run 15 mi of trails a week in three days. Running always affects my climbing and I don't do both in one day. Running builds my endurance for every sport I do and it builds more strength than others give it credit for.

Use running to help peak when you want. I like run hard for a few months before a trip, or climbing season and the stop a couple of weeks before. I get an instant bump of at least a grade.


Ned_Ludd


Jul 30, 2012, 4:39 AM
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T_Nix35 wrote:
I would not eat fruit before bed because of the sugars in it. .

IME eating before sleeping is a bad idea. The body works best with 12-14 hrs of daily fasting. It needs that time for better nutrient absorption that is inhibited when food keeps entering the digestive system. If your working out late then just try having a later breakfast or lighter then normal breakfast. I have been experimenting with this and have really enjoyed the results.


bentgate03


Jul 30, 2012, 1:39 PM
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Not if your last workout is at night. No way should you work out, and then go to bed with an empty stomach. Talk about killing your work-out.

In this example, eat what you are eating but delay your breakfast until later until you get a good 10-12 hours of fasting.

I have no idea where you got the 12-14 hours thing. I would like to see some research on that.


Ned_Ludd


Jul 30, 2012, 2:57 PM
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'diet and nutrition: a holistic approach' by Rudolph Ballantine md

There is a whole chapter on fasting.

I agree that eating after a workout is essential. However I have seen real positive benefits when I maintain the 12-14 hour daily fast. Which obviously means that breakfast is delayed the following day. This is my experience, so please take with a grain of salt but I highly recommend that book, it's a thick read but very informative and providers a different view from western science view of nutrition.

If anyone reading has relevant input about their experience with combining running, eating and climbing; I would love to hear what works and what doesn't.


bentgate03


Jul 31, 2012, 7:29 AM
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I on't disagree that fasting is great for the body. The body is constantly digesting food and you need to give it some reprieve from that so it can do other things like repair, flush, heal etc. I completely agree fasting is beneficial.

My point was a fast should not occur after a work-out. So in this I think we are in agreement as well. Eat after your work-out then delay breakfast the next day to honor the fast.


Ned_Ludd


Jul 31, 2012, 8:25 AM
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Indeed.


joecoov


Sep 7, 2012, 8:12 PM
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Why doesn't the heart need to a reprieve from pumping blood, or the liver from cleaning out toxins, or the kidneys from filtering blood, or the bladder from peeing?
I've seen research that decreased calorie diets can decrease risk for major diseases compared to normal kcal diets, but little research on fasting except after famines such as holocaust and the irish potato famine. They find these forced "fastes" increase risk for obesity and other major illnesses.

You are right about exercise and eating though, its easy to find the research that shows eating within 2 hours of finishing activity improves recovery, and helps decrease muscle loss and fatigue.
Just my 2 cents.

bentgate03 wrote:
I on't disagree that fasting is great for the body. The body is constantly digesting food and you need to give it some reprieve from that so it can do other things like repair, flush, heal etc. I completely agree fasting is beneficial.

My point was a fast should not occur after a work-out. So in this I think we are in agreement as well. Eat after your work-out then delay breakfast the next day to honor the fast.


mheyman


Sep 8, 2012, 7:02 AM
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In reply to:
The body works best with 12-14 hrs of daily fasting. It needs that time for better nutrient absorption that is inhibited when food keeps entering the digestive system.

I don't need to eat frequently, but noone else in my family could go nearly that long. They need to eat regularly, very regularly, and none of them are over weight.


ObviousTroll


Sep 8, 2012, 8:57 AM
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mheyman wrote:
In reply to:
The body works best with 12-14 hrs of daily fasting. It needs that time for better nutrient absorption that is inhibited when food keeps entering the digestive system.

I don't need to eat frequently, but noone else in my family could go nearly that long. They need to eat regularly, very regularly, and none of them are over weight.

He is saying that the 8 hours of sleep you get per night (lol) are included in that 12-14 hours. So basically eat dinner at 6 pm, go to bed at 9, wake up at 5, don't eat until 8 am or so. I could understand not being able to wait that long in the morning, but I don't think that's what you meant. I also don't agree with the idea of 12-14 hours of fasting. Sounds like somebody elses gimmicky diet to me.

As for running, I also feel worn out and smoked if I run 4 or more times a week. However I am trying to lose weight so I'm running VERY hard and also incorporate weight training.

Before, I used to wake up and run six miles every morning at a 7-8 minute mile pace 5 days a week. I never felt weak. My legs felt mechanical. But I wasn't trying to lose weight.


mheyman


Sep 9, 2012, 6:19 AM
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My body tells me what it needs. All I need to do is listen to it!


dynosnore


Sep 11, 2012, 1:40 PM
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I do fasts sometimes, and combined with cutting out all junk food it's really helped me cut fat and get lean. I used to run a ton, but don't have as much time any more so I just climb.

I would say that correct diet and occasional fasts help to get lean better than running does. I just don't fast after a really hard workout, still need to get nutrients!

Of course running has other benefits as well, but it's not necessary to get lean.


T_Nix35


Sep 11, 2012, 10:22 PM
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So what is your typical fast schedule and what kind of foods do you eat to get lean? Also what type of body do you have? I personally am short and stocky (5'7", 185), which sucks for climbing I know but I absolutely love it!


Bats


Sep 12, 2012, 3:44 AM
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I am doing a crosstraining class twice a week and yoga twice a week. Inbetween days are climbing. Sometimes work prevents in one activity over the other, but have never cut climbing out.


jt512


Sep 12, 2012, 8:09 PM
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dynosnore wrote:
I do fasts sometimes, and combined with cutting out all junk food it's really helped me cut fat and get lean.

Fasting? I assume, then, that your goal is to lose muscle mass.

Jay


J.Haze


Sep 13, 2012, 11:12 AM
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Agree with Jay, fasting and any other sort of irregular diet program is gimmicky at best and has little relevant scientific evidence of any benefit for the human body. On the other hand recently read an interesting article on dieting and the various ways in which the body reacts to changes in a diets composition - end result supports the gimmicky and unhealthy nature of most diet programs.

http://www.nytimes.com/...diets-effective.html

Originally asked about low carb diets but experiment goes on to cover how the human body deals with various nutrients - pretty interesting stuff.


Bats


Sep 16, 2012, 12:48 PM
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Cut the junk food out...the third day is the hardest. Micro meals is where it's at. I worked with body builders and it seems they are always eating. A friend of mine who used play pro basketball would eat all the time, but it was healthy foods. She always had protein, carb, and 2 servings of vegetables/fruit about 5-6 times a day. I've tried, but 4 meals is about it. Get an accountability partner.


jolery


Sep 18, 2012, 10:23 AM
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zealotnoob wrote:
I've started running before work 4 or 5 days during the week in a bid to become more lean, and eventually improve my climbing. I'm two weeks in, and I've found that I just can't pull as hard when I climb at the gym in the evening.

Can anyone speak to this? Is this just my energy levels adjusting, or does running the same day you climb fundamentally curb your ability?

I found I had more energy, strength, and endurance for climbing after taking a week or so break from biking and running due to a minor leg issue. I used to lift weights and run the same day - learned quickly that it was best to lift first, then run, or I would be too drained to lift at full strength.


T_Nix35


Sep 18, 2012, 10:44 PM
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I agree running after you lift helps a lot! Plus it helps to get the lactic acid out of your muscles so you are not as sore. Hey where are you from in AR?


jolery


Sep 19, 2012, 4:52 AM
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Fayetteville area


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