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Moore's wall accident
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iknowfear


Jul 24, 2012, 11:42 AM
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Re: [notapplicable] Moore's wall accident [In reply to]
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notapplicable wrote:
moose_droppings wrote:
In reply to:
The next thing we knew, an end of the rope whipped through the bolt

That does sound like only one side of the rope was through the rappel device.

Again, my condolences to all family and friends.

Yes but it also says that he likely fell less than 30 ft. and the length of the rope and lack of middle mark was definitely emphasized. It would appear that he somehow rapped off the end of one strand and fell far enough to cause the loose end to pull thru the anchor.

When in doubt, knot the ends.

yep.

What I generally do (not for accident prevention, but simply to be quicker in my setup) is to set up my prussik as soon as the first climber leaves the belay. I just thought about it, it might also stop the rope beeing pulled trough.


majid_sabet


Jul 24, 2012, 11:55 AM
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Re: [csproul] Moore's wall accident [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
they should add the rope and drop it off the anchor just to confirm it was short by 30 feet.
There is almost no way a rope could be short by 30 ft unless it was not even. A 60 m rope is short by 10 ft at the most. I guess if it was a 50m rope that would make it an extra 5m higher and make it ~25ft short to the ledge. But in any case, the rope would have to really be uneven to pull one side down and cause the rope to pull through the anchor.


recently, inexperienced climber was left alone in the anchor by a semi-experienced climber to rig and rap down and she fell in similar situation off end of the line by some 90 feet , landed on both foot and survived but they amputated both legs three days later.


forkliftdaddy


Jul 25, 2012, 11:48 AM
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Re: [wonderwoman] Moore's wall accident [In reply to]
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wonderwoman, I believe that being a party of 3 (or possibly 4) they had another rope with which to rap.


wonderwoman


Jul 25, 2012, 12:13 PM
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Re: [forkliftdaddy] Moore's wall accident [In reply to]
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forkliftdaddy wrote:
wonderwoman, I believe that being a party of 3 (or possibly 4) they had another rope with which to rap.

That makes sense. I guess I wasn't thinking too hard when I posted. Condolences, again.


Gmburns2000


Jul 25, 2012, 1:45 PM
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Re: [iknowfear] Moore's wall accident [In reply to]
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iknowfear wrote:
notapplicable wrote:
moose_droppings wrote:
In reply to:
The next thing we knew, an end of the rope whipped through the bolt

That does sound like only one side of the rope was through the rappel device.

Again, my condolences to all family and friends.

Yes but it also says that he likely fell less than 30 ft. and the length of the rope and lack of middle mark was definitely emphasized. It would appear that he somehow rapped off the end of one strand and fell far enough to cause the loose end to pull thru the anchor.

When in doubt, knot the ends.

yep.

What I generally do (not for accident prevention, but simply to be quicker in my setup) is to set up my prussik as soon as the first climber leaves the belay. I just thought about it, it might also stop the rope beeing pulled trough.

several years ago I was saved by the knot used to tie two ropes together. the tag line wasn't the length we thought it was. I was lucky that day.


Partner robdotcalm


Jul 25, 2012, 5:34 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Moore's wall accident [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
several years ago I was saved by the knot used to tie two ropes together. the tag line wasn't the length we thought it was. I was lucky that day.

Does that mean that the knot tieing the ropes together jammed against the anchor and that's what saved you?

r.c


Gmburns2000


Jul 26, 2012, 7:00 AM
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Re: [robdotcalm] Moore's wall accident [In reply to]
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robdotcalm wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
several years ago I was saved by the knot used to tie two ropes together. the tag line wasn't the length we thought it was. I was lucky that day.

Does that mean that the knot tieing the ropes together jammed against the anchor and that's what saved you?

r.c

yes. I was watching to see if the rope above was rubbing against any loose rock above me (or what I feared was loose rock) and didn't see the end of the short rope. The short end whipped through my device and I continued to safely, albeit rather alarmingly, rap on the other strand. The knot joining the ropes together jammed against the anchor and that prevented me from falling. If we had threaded it the other way then I would have fallen about 30 feet or so.

Upon throwing the ropes from the top, the two ends went over a bulge mid-way down. The long end went to the left of the bulge and we could clearly see lots of rope on the ground. It very clearly reached. The short end went to the right and we couldn't see it on the ground, but we also couldn't see the ground from that vantage point either, so thinking that both ropes were 60m it was obvious that the other reached, too.

We didn't think to put the non-visible rope on the other side of the bulge because, well, it was a fairly simple rappel and we figured we had all the information we needed: ropes were the same length, the one we could see was clearly on the ground, it was a rather short rappel that would use two ropes (a 70m probably would have worked easily, but a 60 was apparently too short), etc.

A knot in the end would have saved me, but so would have looking down the whole time. However, I was worried about potentially loose rock above me, too.


majid_sabet


Jul 26, 2012, 10:15 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Moore's wall accident [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
robdotcalm wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
several years ago I was saved by the knot used to tie two ropes together. the tag line wasn't the length we thought it was. I was lucky that day.

Does that mean that the knot tieing the ropes together jammed against the anchor and that's what saved you?

r.c

yes. I was watching to see if the rope above was rubbing against any loose rock above me (or what I feared was loose rock) and didn't see the end of the short rope. The short end whipped through my device and I continued to safely, albeit rather alarmingly, rap on the other strand. The knot joining the ropes together jammed against the anchor and that prevented me from falling. If we had threaded it the other way then I would have fallen about 30 feet or so.

Upon throwing the ropes from the top, the two ends went over a bulge mid-way down. The long end went to the left of the bulge and we could clearly see lots of rope on the ground. It very clearly reached. The short end went to the right and we couldn't see it on the ground, but we also couldn't see the ground from that vantage point either, so thinking that both ropes were 60m it was obvious that the other reached, too.

We didn't think to put the non-visible rope on the other side of the bulge because, well, it was a fairly simple rappel and we figured we had all the information we needed: ropes were the same length, the one we could see was clearly on the ground, it was a rather short rappel that would use two ropes (a 70m probably would have worked easily, but a 60 was apparently too short), etc.

A knot in the end would have saved me, but so would have looking down the whole time. However, I was worried about potentially loose rock above me, too.


very lucky


iknowfear


Jul 26, 2012, 1:38 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Moore's wall accident [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
robdotcalm wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
several years ago I was saved by the knot used to tie two ropes together. the tag line wasn't the length we thought it was. I was lucky that day.

Does that mean that the knot tieing the ropes together jammed against the anchor and that's what saved you?

r.c

yes. I was watching to see if the rope above was rubbing against any loose rock above me (or what I feared was loose rock) and didn't see the end of the short rope. The short end whipped through my device and I continued to safely, albeit rather alarmingly, rap on the other strand. The knot joining the ropes together jammed against the anchor and that prevented me from falling. If we had threaded it the other way then I would have fallen about 30 feet or so.

Upon throwing the ropes from the top, the two ends went over a bulge mid-way down. The long end went to the left of the bulge and we could clearly see lots of rope on the ground. It very clearly reached. The short end went to the right and we couldn't see it on the ground, but we also couldn't see the ground from that vantage point either, so thinking that both ropes were 60m it was obvious that the other reached, too.

We didn't think to put the non-visible rope on the other side of the bulge because, well, it was a fairly simple rappel and we figured we had all the information we needed: ropes were the same length, the one we could see was clearly on the ground, it was a rather short rappel that would use two ropes (a 70m probably would have worked easily, but a 60 was apparently too short), etc.

A knot in the end would have saved me, but so would have looking down the whole time. However, I was worried about potentially loose rock above me, too.

yikes! glad you made it out of that one.

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