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Tinet


Aug 1, 2012, 3:37 PM
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Core workouts
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Hey all I am trying to find out more core exercises that i can do. I know the core is very important in climbing and i been climbing for 2 1/2 years now, all I do is boulder and i enjoy it very much. The core exercises I have been doing are planks, side planks, supermans, crunches, leg lifts, and not sure what they are called but where you lay on your back and hold your legs 6 inches off the ground as long as you can. Any extra ones you guys know would be awesome cause I do core a lot on days I cant clime cause I am taking a rest day for my hands being to sore.
Thank YOU!


eric_k


Aug 2, 2012, 2:03 AM
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Hanging Knee http://Raises,http:/...ging-knee-raise.html

Ankles to bar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B9kCukDUv0

get started with these
Eric


njrox


Aug 2, 2012, 6:46 AM
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back extensions
reverse crunches
rotational exercises
various medicine ball throws

try performing exercises on unstable surfaces like a medicine ball or bosu ball


Partner cracklover


Aug 2, 2012, 9:09 AM
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eric_k wrote:
Hanging Knee http://Raises,http:/...ging-knee-raise.html

Ankles to bar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B9kCukDUv0

get started with these
Eric

Your first link is messed up. I think you mean http://www.muscleandstrength.com/...ging-knee-raise.html

BTW, I do something similar to that, but I do a version in which I do one exactly like that pictured, then one where I do the same movement, but with my feet slightly off to the right, knees off to the left (hitting the right side muscles); then one reversed so it hits the left side muscles. Repeat all three until failure.

GO


mr.tastycakes


Aug 3, 2012, 12:46 PM
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core schmore. Maintaining body tension is a skill. The limiter is coordination, not strength.

Don't trust me? Try this:

http://onlineclimbingcoach.blogspot.com/...y-tension-means.html


csiebsen


Aug 13, 2012, 10:08 AM
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P90x Ab-ripper http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPC23HbHJgY&feature=fvwrel

If it doesn't help your climbing you'll at least look great Wink


fredylee


Sep 27, 2012, 3:24 PM
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AbRipperX is a great workout. I am doing AbRipperX twice a week.

Ankle to pull up bar is also good. I am doing it with a slight variation. I am raising my right ankle to reach the left side on my bar, and then the other way around.


ecade


Sep 28, 2012, 6:35 AM
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can you, or anyone advise.

I have somewhat chronic lower back issues (carrying a pack and canoe for summers on end is bad for your back, who'd have thunk)

Core workouts can really exacerbate it.

Anyone else have a similar issue and or able to advise core work outs that don't kill the lower back as well as work outs that work the lower back.

I could be wrong, often am, but I'd think the two are alternating muscles (or whatever the word is, they're sort of the inverse of eachother)

dankeshen


granite_grrl


Sep 28, 2012, 7:40 AM
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ecade wrote:
can you, or anyone advise.

I have somewhat chronic lower back issues (carrying a pack and canoe for summers on end is bad for your back, who'd have thunk)

Core workouts can really exacerbate it.

Anyone else have a similar issue and or able to advise core work outs that don't kill the lower back as well as work outs that work the lower back.

I could be wrong, often am, but I'd think the two are alternating muscles (or whatever the word is, they're sort of the inverse of eachother)

dankeshen

A strong core helps support the back.

I remember doing the P90X abripper and finding it hurting my back more than it helped. The motions were just too big and it didn't work the deeper muscles as well as I needed.

I can't specifically recomend exercises, but consider going to a couple of pilates classes. Explain your issues to the instructor and they will help you modify (or substitute) exercises that aggravate your back.


njrox


Sep 28, 2012, 7:40 AM
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mr.tastycakes wrote:
core schmore. Maintaining body tension is a skill.

Your "core" produces body tension. People think that the core is just your "abs". The core consists of the muscles attached to your spine to your pelvis to your extremities.


njrox


Sep 28, 2012, 7:45 AM
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ecade wrote:
I could be wrong, often am, but I'd think the two are alternating muscles (or whatever the word is, they're sort of the inverse of eachother)

agonist, and antagonist.


ecade


Sep 28, 2012, 8:49 AM
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granite_grrl wrote:
ecade wrote:
can you, or anyone advise.

I have somewhat chronic lower back issues (carrying a pack and canoe for summers on end is bad for your back, who'd have thunk)

Core workouts can really exacerbate it.

Anyone else have a similar issue and or able to advise core work outs that don't kill the lower back as well as work outs that work the lower back.

I could be wrong, often am, but I'd think the two are alternating muscles (or whatever the word is, they're sort of the inverse of eachother)

dankeshen

A strong core helps support the back.

I can't specifically recomend exercises, but consider going to a couple of pilates classes. Explain your issues to the instructor and they will help you modify (or substitute) exercises that aggravate your back.

Thanks for the advice,

so Pilates eh... I hear sexy fit woman like to do those things too ; (have rewritten thrice now and it keeps sounding creepy... is there a non creepy emoticon, I'm a good jewish boy I swear:) )

Anyone have experience with Yoga? I'd heard mixed reviews, one friend said its great but I would need to be carefully watched, small mistakes in poses can have big consequences.

happy and safe climbing


ecade


Sep 28, 2012, 8:51 AM
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njrox wrote:
ecade wrote:
I could be wrong, often am, but I'd think the two are alternating muscles (or whatever the word is, they're sort of the inverse of eachother)

agonist, and antagonist.

I like that... makes it sound like our bodies' are in conflict with eachother. but the chicken or the egg question, or perhaps its just perspective...who is the agonist and who is the antagonist? (I am guessing the words' usage is similar to literature)


Wade308


Sep 28, 2012, 10:30 AM
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ecade wrote:
can you, or anyone advise.

I have somewhat chronic lower back issues (carrying a pack and canoe for summers on end is bad for your back, who'd have thunk)

Core workouts can really exacerbate it.

Anyone else have a similar issue and or able to advise core work outs that don't kill the lower back as well as work outs that work the lower back.

I could be wrong, often am, but I'd think the two are alternating muscles (or whatever the word is, they're sort of the inverse of eachother)

dankeshen

Problem is your core muscles extend from your abs to your spine. As a recipient of lower back surgery, I know where you're coming from.
I'd avise long warm-ups and starting really slow at first. When I first started working out I had some pain, but within a few months my back really loosened up.

Simple exercises will work the smaller muscles and help support your back. Form is always important and things like bridges, hindu push-ups and yoga poses that will get you to arch your back, will help take pressure off any compressed disks you might have.

After you feel you're getting loosened up, then you can think about more movements that involve curling or twisting motions.


FullertonImages


Sep 29, 2012, 10:11 AM
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Dead Bugs. Awesome ab exercise, and great for integration of for all the way from arms to legs. Especially focus on keep you deep core engaged throughout the movement and belly button pulled in towards you spine and up. these and supermans are great for climbing because they focus on the core function as a bridge to connect the limbs (which is ultimately what we're after), rather than just strengthening the core for its own sake.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/547481-the-dead-bug-exercise-for-ab-muscles/


(This post was edited by FullertonImages on Sep 29, 2012, 10:18 AM)


papapetro


Oct 15, 2012, 5:16 PM
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Try an ab/boxer's wheel.


AkAxeMan


Dec 2, 2012, 6:10 PM
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Be sure not to neglect your back. If you work out your abs too much and forget about the rest of your core it can cause your body to develop out of balance and make you more prone to injuries.


brooklynclimber


Dec 2, 2012, 6:27 PM
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AkAxeMan wrote:
Be sure not to neglect your back. If you work out your abs too much and forget about the rest of your core it can cause your body to develop out of balance and make you more prone to injuries.
I agree. But every time I try to exercise my back, I injure myself. What exercises do you do?

I see a few in Horst's training for climbing, but haven't tried.


Tiffaro0


Dec 3, 2012, 6:33 AM
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If your injuring your back, its probably because of your overall spine alignment. When we slouch, we are putting way too much pressure on our lower back.

To fix this problem, focus on corrective stretching and exercises which aim to "open up the chest." This can be achieved by pulling your shoulders back, tightening your abs (and lower back) and sticking your chest out.

Here's a perfect stretch to do - "the doorway stretch." Simply stand in the center of a door frame and place one or both of your hands on the sides. Your arms can be fully extended or you can bend them at the elbows. Now lean forward with your upper body which will produce the corrective stretch.

Here's a tip: Vary the angle where you place your hands (from a low position all the way to a over head position), to help your entire range of motion.

If you're in front of a desk right now, remember to take a break and do some stretches. If you're at the gym, a great time to do this stretch is in-between your chest exercise sets (you don't even need a door frame, simply hold onto the side of the bench).

http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/ChestGeneral/Doorway.html


spiderman5


Dec 19, 2012, 5:11 PM
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TRX is great for full body and core workout. All body weight, can take it anywhere. I tie it to the roll bar of my wrangler or a tree.


gethighonarock


Dec 27, 2012, 10:44 AM
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There are several great articles here:

http://info.rockrun.com/...neil-gresham-20.html

and here

http://www.climber.co.uk/...ate=27&topic=140


(This post was edited by gethighonarock on Dec 27, 2012, 10:45 AM)


DouglasHunter


Jan 13, 2013, 8:58 PM
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ecade wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
ecade wrote:
can you, or anyone advise.

I have somewhat chronic lower back issues (carrying a pack and canoe for summers on end is bad for your back, who'd have thunk)

Core workouts can really exacerbate it.

Anyone else have a similar issue and or able to advise core work outs that don't kill the lower back as well as work outs that work the lower back.

I could be wrong, often am, but I'd think the two are alternating muscles (or whatever the word is, they're sort of the inverse of eachother)

dankeshen

A strong core helps support the back.

I can't specifically recomend exercises, but consider going to a couple of pilates classes. Explain your issues to the instructor and they will help you modify (or substitute) exercises that aggravate your back.

Thanks for the advice,

so Pilates eh... I hear sexy fit woman like to do those things too ; (have rewritten thrice now and it keeps sounding creepy... is there a non creepy emoticon, I'm a good jewish boy I swear:) )

If you have back pain Pilates might be the worst thing for you. A good deal of lower back pain arises from chronic tightness of the Psoas muscle which has its origin on the lumbar spine, and it inserts on the lessor trochanter of the femur. (see here for more info and scroll down for an illustration of the Psoas) Pilates contains a huge amount of hip flexion which is the primary action of the Psoas, repeated high intensity hip flexion can often make back pain worse.

This is my beef with a great deal of "core" exercises. They are actually hip flexion exercises but they get called ab or core exercises because the abs stabilize the pelvis through hip flexion. For the safest results its a good idea to stay away from all the hip flexion and use activities that engage the muscles of the trunk directly. Also, work the muscles all the way around the trunk, don't ignore extension, rotation, and lateral flexion of the trunk.


Syd


Jan 14, 2013, 3:13 AM
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DouglasHunter wrote:

If you have back pain Pilates might be the worst thing for you. A good deal of lower back pain arises from chronic tightness of the Psoas muscle which has its origin on the lumbar spine, and it inserts on the lessor trochanter of the femur. (see here for more info and scroll down for an illustration of the Psoas) Pilates contains a huge amount of hip flexion which is the primary action of the Psoas, repeated high intensity hip flexion can often make back pain worse.

You sound like a medical doctor ?
Pilates seemed to contribute to my osteoarthritis of the hips. I was told there was no cure and that I'd need a hip replacement. However, my wife and I developed a therapy based on very hard massage around the lower spine. I'm now pain free (6+ years post diagnosis). From what you have described, this sounds as though I have a problem with my Psoas ? I was also diagnosed with a prolapsed disc in my lower spine in my twenties. This may also have been connected ?
What is the best way to exercise/look after the Psoas ?


viciado


Jan 14, 2013, 5:43 AM
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Douglas,

Are you essentially saying to make sure you find an "all around" trunk routine that does not focus on just the abs or back (or hip flexes or whatever). And is it correct to say you indicate that focusing on one aspect of "core" can result in painful imbalance?

If so (or even if not...), what could you recommend in practical terms?


Partner cracklover


Jan 14, 2013, 9:09 AM
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DouglasHunter wrote:
ecade wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
ecade wrote:
can you, or anyone advise.

I have somewhat chronic lower back issues (carrying a pack and canoe for summers on end is bad for your back, who'd have thunk)

Core workouts can really exacerbate it.

Anyone else have a similar issue and or able to advise core work outs that don't kill the lower back as well as work outs that work the lower back.

I could be wrong, often am, but I'd think the two are alternating muscles (or whatever the word is, they're sort of the inverse of eachother)

dankeshen

A strong core helps support the back.

I can't specifically recomend exercises, but consider going to a couple of pilates classes. Explain your issues to the instructor and they will help you modify (or substitute) exercises that aggravate your back.

Thanks for the advice,

so Pilates eh... I hear sexy fit woman like to do those things too ; (have rewritten thrice now and it keeps sounding creepy... is there a non creepy emoticon, I'm a good jewish boy I swear:) )

If you have back pain Pilates might be the worst thing for you. A good deal of lower back pain arises from chronic tightness of the Psoas muscle which has its origin on the lumbar spine, and it inserts on the lessor trochanter of the femur. (see here for more info and scroll down for an illustration of the Psoas) Pilates contains a huge amount of hip flexion which is the primary action of the Psoas, repeated high intensity hip flexion can often make back pain worse.

This is my beef with a great deal of "core" exercises. They are actually hip flexion exercises but they get called ab or core exercises because the abs stabilize the pelvis through hip flexion. For the safest results its a good idea to stay away from all the hip flexion and use activities that engage the muscles of the trunk directly. Also, work the muscles all the way around the trunk, don't ignore extension, rotation, and lateral flexion of the trunk.

Very believable. I have some back problems, and Pilates is intolerable. So, you suggest activities that engage the muscles of the trunk directly - can you give any examples of either such exercises (I imagine this would be things like crunches?) or of exercise programs you're aware of (some type of yoga maybe? Or P90x? Or...?) that is pretty good at hitting these muscles?

GO


DouglasHunter


Jan 14, 2013, 9:40 AM
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In reply to:
You sound like a medical doctor ?
Pilates seemed to contribute to my osteoarthritis of the hips. I was told there was no cure and that I'd need a hip replacement. However, my wife and I developed a therapy based on very hard massage around the lower spine. I'm now pain free (6+ years post diagnosis). From what you have described, this sounds as though I have a problem with my Psoas ? I was also diagnosed with a prolapsed disc in my lower spine in my twenties. This may also have been connected ?
What is the best way to exercise/look after the Psoas ?

No I'm not a doctor, just a climbing coach with a lot of years spent studying Kinesiology. Your story is really interesting, and its fantastic that you found a way to avoid a hip replacement. But I can't comment on how the Psoas may contribute to your specific case as it may or may not be a factor. The only way to know that is to get a diagnosis from a good PT.

Sorry that the link I included in my post didn't come through, here it is again. It does have a couple of suggestions for stretching. I will say that stretching the Psoas is not easy. The link below shows the best exercise for stretching the Psoas but how effective this stretch is depends on factors such as how tight the rest of your hip flexors are. If the other hip flexors are really tight its difficult to get the range of motion necessary in order to actually stretch the Psoas.

http://www.somatics.com/psoas.htm

In reply to:
Are you essentially saying to make sure you find an "all around" trunk routine that does not focus on just the abs or back (or hip flexes or whatever). And is it correct to say you indicate that focusing on one aspect of "core" can result in painful imbalance?

If so (or even if not...), what could you recommend in practical terms?

Yea, that it pretty much it. Culturally there is a huge over emphasis on the Abs, probably based on wanting to look good at the beach. Looking good is fine, but what climbers should be interested in is functional conditioning. From the functional point of view we want to look at the actions of the trunk found in climbing and then condition the muscles that contribute to those actions. So in climbing we see extension, lateral flexion, some rotation, and stabilization. Trunk flexion is not really a factor in climbing.

In terms of recommendations it means using exercises that involve all these actions. I place specific emphasis on trunk extension. I also place emphasis on activities that coordinate the trunk and hip joints. This is particularly in regard to body tension. Most climbers think that body tension is a function of trunk strength. While trunk strength matters, in my opinion body tension is more a matter of coordination than it is of strength; the most important element being the hip joint. The trunk is important but its only part of the story.

I don't have specific exercises to give you, because how to safely train the trunk is a pretty big topic. For example, the renowned Kinesiologist Blandine Calais-Germain has a book called "No-Risk Abs" the first part of the book contains a critique of common trunk exercises and their potential dangers. The second part of the book covers the exercises that are safe and effective. Sounds good right? The problem is that her exercises are so nuanced most people find it extremely difficult to know if they are doing the exercises correctly. I have difficulty with them, and I lent the book to a friend who is a PT who also agreed that most people would not want to put the effort into learning these things. That said I have created a seres of climbing specific plank exercises but I haven't created any documentation for them yet.


DouglasHunter


Jan 14, 2013, 10:16 AM
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cracklover wrote:
Very believable. I have some back problems, and Pilates is intolerable. So, you suggest activities that engage the muscles of the trunk directly - can you give any examples of either such exercises (I imagine this would be things like crunches?) or of exercise programs you're aware of (some type of yoga maybe? Or P90x? Or...?) that is pretty good at hitting these muscles?

GO

Hey man good to see you again. Here is the problem, as I have researched the issue its rather difficult to find trunk exercises that are really safe. Specifically for those of us who already have back problems.

When you say crunches you might mean a few different things, but in general crunches are made safer if your feet are not planted, you don't come up very high, and you don't have your hands behind your head. Some people feel that engaging the Transverse Abs when doing crunches or Pilates style roll ups makes them safer because it supports the lumbar spine. Experts disagree on this point. The best information I have seen suggests that the Transverse Abs don't actually support the lower back, and someone like Calais-Germain thinks that engaging the Transverse Abs can potentially be harmful to the Perineum.

Anyway, I am at a point in my research where I am aware of many of the problems of "core" training but I don't know many of the answers. I'll have to look around and see if I can find good activities that are easy to perform and safer than the usual suspects.


Partner cracklover


Jan 14, 2013, 2:12 PM
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DouglasHunter wrote:
Anyway, I am at a point in my research where I am aware of many of the problems of "core" training but I don't know many of the answers. I'll have to look around and see if I can find good activities that are easy to perform and safer than the usual suspects.

Honest answer, I appreciate that.

Cheers,

GO


viciado


Jan 15, 2013, 6:55 AM
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cracklover wrote:
Honest answer, I appreciate that.

Cheers,

GO

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camhead


Jan 15, 2013, 10:00 AM
Post #30 of 30 (654 views)
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Registered: Sep 9, 2001
Posts: 20713

Re: [DouglasHunter] Core workouts [In reply to]
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DouglasHunter wrote:
...Here is the problem, as I have researched the issue its rather difficult to find trunk exercises that are really safe. Specifically for those of us who already have back problems.

I can definitely relate. I have fairly chronic rheumatoid arthritis in my lower back, and a lot of the core exercises that I've tried like front levers and leg lifts from a pullup bar just hurt the joints too much, even before I start getting the "burn" in my muscles.

Curiously enough, I found a pretty good core exercise just this last month, as I've been trying to train around a fractured foot. I lift myself up on my crutches, with my back against a wall, and then do leg lifts (usually sets of 25 until failure). They actually feel way better on my lower back than leg lifts from a pullup bar or even from a Roman Chair. I may have to keep my crutches even after I recover, hehe.


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