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stoneguy
Aug 16, 2012, 4:54 PM
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Do you guys have any issues with inserting a Tricam in a vertical crack.
You could jam it in, but still somewhat risky hold, as would seem it could "walk" and with gravity being what it is....
If I had a little "nub" it's possible. Your thoughts..? Thanks
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njrox
Aug 16, 2012, 4:59 PM
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constriction. same as a stopper.
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marc801
Aug 16, 2012, 5:48 PM
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stoneguy wrote: Do you guys have any issues with inserting a Tricam in a vertical crack. You could jam it in, but still somewhat risky hold, as would seem it could "walk" and with gravity being what it is.... If I had a little "nub" it's possible. Your thoughts..? Thanks
Treat it as a stopper (already mentioned).
Set it in camming mode with a tug.
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potreroed
Aug 16, 2012, 6:12 PM
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Vertical, overhanging, no problem
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stoneguy
Aug 16, 2012, 7:29 PM
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Thanks... those look quite reliable. Better than the bottomless cracks I was working the other day.
So, you are not worried in the bottom photo of it walking and dropping. The others are wedged fine.
A nut is always bigger than the constriction, the tricam expands "out" to the constriction. But, yes, I will heed your advice & try to get more comfortable with it... hammer it in there...
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csproul
Aug 16, 2012, 7:42 PM
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Slinging it longer and with something more flexible (ie sling instead of a stiff dogbone) can also help prevent it from walking loose, just like with any other piece of gear.
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marc801
Aug 16, 2012, 7:48 PM
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stoneguy wrote: Thanks... those look quite reliable. Better than the bottomless cracks I was working the other day. So, you are not worried in the bottom photo of it walking and dropping. The others are wedged fine. A nut is always bigger than the constriction, the tricam expands "out" to the constriction. But, yes, I will heed your advice & try to get more comfortable with it... hammer it in there...
If you're that uncomfortable, another option is to not use them. They may not be for you.
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stoneguy
Aug 16, 2012, 8:08 PM
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My nuts are usually very solid, so I rarely worry, but yes, I should be paying more attention to sling length in other scenario's. All my slings are doubled, so it's easy enough.
Lack of practice with Tricams..! Thanks
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csproul
Aug 16, 2012, 8:11 PM
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In all honesty, I usually have more problems cleaning tricams than I have problems getting them to stay put.
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stoneguy
Aug 16, 2012, 8:19 PM
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I was being creative in the wording... I don't hammer them in, just a hard tug. Like any new gear, practice makes you more comfortable, so I am just trying to slowly work it into my routine.
And I appeciated the pictures.
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okieterry
Aug 16, 2012, 9:57 PM
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As soon as I "stiffened" the strap so that I could place a tricam like a nut, I began using the smaller sizes more in vertical cracks. By stiffening, I mean duct taping a thin piece of plastic to the strap but leaving the last part near the tricam loose so it can still work as an active cam. The downside is you can't inspect the strap for damage in the future without taking the duct tape off. You'd be surprised at how well they work. For cleaning, I always tell everyone to just give the tricam a quick tap with the cleaning tool and it usually comes right out.
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yodadave
Aug 17, 2012, 5:18 AM
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not sure about the adhesive in duct tape touching nylon 
I use athletic tape and apparently they are now going to sell stiffy tricams, if i read correctly from an OR report.
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csproul
Aug 17, 2012, 2:28 PM
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yodadave wrote: not sure about the adhesive in duct tape touching nylon I use athletic tape and apparently they are now going to sell stiffy tricams, if i read correctly from an OR report.
I wonder what they are using to stiffen them up in production? Is it just a stiffer bartacked sling like those on a dogbone?
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yodadave
Aug 17, 2012, 3:35 PM
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duct tape can remove warts and help cell phones get better reception. I don't trust tape that is smarter than Apple 
I believe they are stiffening them with a strip of plastic stitched in between the webbing.
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Gazleahork
Aug 17, 2012, 8:02 PM
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csproul wrote: In all honesty, I usually have more problems cleaning tricams than I have problems getting them to stay put.
WORD! Those things can put up a real fight. If they've been waited they are a B*TCH to remove!
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happiegrrrl
Aug 17, 2012, 8:38 PM
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Gazleahork wrote: csproul wrote: In all honesty, I usually have more problems cleaning tricams than I have problems getting them to stay put. WORD! Those things can put up a real fight. If they've been waited they are a B*TCH to remove!
If the person who places them understand how to do so, they are usually extremely easy to clean, even when fallen on.
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marc801
Aug 18, 2012, 1:35 AM
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Gazleahork wrote: WORD! Those things can put up a real fight. If they've been waited they are a B*TCH to remove!
And as happiegirrl said, if they're a bitch to remove, the leader really doesn't know how to place them well.
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 18, 2012, 2:56 AM
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If the leader is actually climbing hard the leader might not give a shit if they are easy to Remove usually only bootie these from easy Noooob climbs though which means that either the Hardmen don't use em much or their seconds are better at getting them out probobly a combo of the two thoughts.. Bootied a shiny new brown last night. I do carry a red and pink but have not placed or needed to place a brown in at least 15 years.. Contemplateing ebay? I obviously do not need it if I have not used one in 15 years so it will just be more stuff to carry regardless if I Find placements for the brown simply because i am carrying it....
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happiegrrrl
Aug 18, 2012, 8:15 PM
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In reply to: If the leader is actually climbing hard the leader might not give a shit if they are easy to Remove
I would say that tricams aren't really the piece of choice for someone who is climbing past their limit and unable to properly protect. Usually an Alien will go if they are in a rush. Tricams do require some art to place, same as good nutcraft. Sure, you can slam in a nut, yard on it and it'll stay, but there is a certain beauty to a great nut (and/or tricam) placement.
What I have seen, for stuck tricams, is that they usually were placed too tightly, with the beak and flat part in front of it in a position that doesn't allow the cleaner to rock them. I guess it would be considered an overcammed placement.
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 19, 2012, 12:20 AM
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Did annother pretty hard GU FA today... tried to place a red tricam just for shits and giggles but it was not meant to be just had to go with the aliens,camalots, a few stoppers, KB, a hook or two and a few beaks and of course the Bosch
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bearbreeder
Aug 19, 2012, 7:18 AM
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be very careful to sling long on the larger tricams in parallel or diagonal cracks that are fairly smooth ... they can rattle out if you dont ... and be careful not to have the sling hook on anything as you go past ...
ive had them rattle out, especially if you stiffened the sling for single handed placement ...
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rgold
Aug 19, 2012, 5:37 PM
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If a tricam is overcammed, it is likely to end up fixed. Also, just as with a cam, they shouldn't be placed deep in a crack where it will be hard to reach and manipulate them. These are placement errors, the same ones that can be made with a cam.
However, it isn't always the leader's fault if a tricam is abandoned; many people do not know how to remove them. Tapping on it as you would a nut will either do nothing or might push the piece in deeper where it will be harder to get out.
If a tricam doesn't immediately wiggle out, the first step is to hook the nut tool behind the fulcrum point ("stinger") and jerk sharply (outwards for a horizontal placement and downwards for a vertical placement). This tends to break the lock and begin the releasing cam rotation. Any other taps with the nut tool should be aimed at producing rotation in the release direction rather than trying to move the entire unit, and one may have to return periodically to the outward jerks on the fulcrum point.
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blueeyedclimber
Aug 19, 2012, 7:05 PM
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marc801 wrote: stoneguy wrote: Do you guys have any issues with inserting a Tricam in a vertical crack. You could jam it in, but still somewhat risky hold, as would seem it could "walk" and with gravity being what it is.... If I had a little "nub" it's possible. Your thoughts..? Thanks They were designed to work in all cracks, vertical or horizontal. Treat it as a stopper (already mentioned). Set it in camming mode with a tug.
They all look solid for downward pull. The problem, however, with placing tricams in vertical cracks is they are more prone to wiggling (which will compromise the placement), with a little outward/sideways pull (whether from the rope or your foot moving past it). True, you can long sling it to help to prevent it but that doesn't eliminate all rope movement on the piece.
With that said, it all depends on the features of the crack. So, they CAN provide a solid placement, but more often than not, I fell they are not appropriate for vertical cracks.
My .02
Josh
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marc801
Aug 19, 2012, 8:23 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: So, they CAN provide a solid placement, but more often than not, I fell they are not appropriate for vertical cracks.
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 20, 2012, 1:03 AM
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In 20 years he still has NOT NEEDED TO LEARN HOW TO PLACE THEM 
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 20, 2012, 1:27 AM
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Can't speak for your partner but there are lots of very good climbers who do not need or use tricams. I started out with a passive rack and certainly paied my dues 30 years ago with tri cams and hexes but could easily live without them. Every time I have done a route in the last decade where the guidebook warned that tricams were mandatory I have managed to protect it without said tricams. The black tricam is only 3kn. The same size BD TCU is 10 kn... whatever.. keep fiddleing as much as you want just be aware that it is a fettish and not the essentual big deal that the tricam groupies seem to have bought into...
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marc801
Aug 20, 2012, 5:45 AM
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tradmanclimbs wrote: Can't speak for your partner but there are lots of very good climbers who do not need or use tricams. I started out with a passive rack and certainly paied my dues 30 years ago with tri cams and hexes but could easily live without them. Every time I have done a route in the last decade where the guidebook warned that tricams were mandatory I have managed to protect it without said tricams. The black tricam is only 3kn. The same size BD TCU is 10 kn... whatever.. keep fiddleing as much as you want just be aware that it is a fettish and not the essentual big deal that the tricam groupies seem to have bought into...
[Edit for spelling]
(This post was edited by marc801 on Aug 20, 2012, 5:50 AM)
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 20, 2012, 10:49 AM
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Mark. point is I can use them better than most yet mostly choose not to because most of the time there are better options. You are of course free to live in your little dream world where tricams are better than cold micro beer while the elightened ones know that tricams are the keystone light backwash swill of the camming devices
(This post was edited by tradmanclimbs on Aug 20, 2012, 10:31 PM)
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