So, some of the pundits are saying that this debate may be one that Romney *has* to win. He's slightly behind in the polls, and trending further behind.
During the primaries, his winning methodology was to avoid specifics, hold to to generic Republican talking points, and keep his head above water. But now that we're only five weeks from the general election, that will have to change.
Also, Romney has been rigorously preparing for this debate.
All this adds up to one thing - the debate tomorrow night may be pretty damn big and bold. If Romney comes out swinging hard, we may expect to see some serious fireworks, and/or some real policy discussion.
And some say that when Romney gets heated, that's when he tends to blurt out just the wrong thing. But he's probably done enough prep work to avoid that. We'll see.
So anyway, do you expect to see a clear winner tomorrow night? And if so, who?
If I was the Prez, I'd ask Mitt if stashing 10's - 100's of millions of $$$ in offshore accounts (read also: investing in another country's banking system rather than our own) to avoid taxes is a loop-hole he would close.
Personally, I just wanna watch the debates 'cause I wanna watch the continuing the train wreck(s)... Even better than watching Charlie Sheen.
My prediction is that democrats will declare victory for Obama, and the republicans will do the same for Romney. They will both greatly exaggerate the extent of their victories.
It's already been written. Just like last time when the ad about Palin's decisive victory over Biden was accidentally printed before the debate even happened.
My prediction is that democrats will declare victory for Obama, and the republicans will do the same for Romney. They will both greatly exaggerate the extent of their victories.
It's already been written. Just like last time when the ad about Palin's decisive victory over Biden was accidentally printed before the debate even happened.
You have a point, as I am amazed at how often they repeat the same tired lines, even when they have been debunked. Seems that they believe that if they just say it often enough people will believe it, and unfortunately, I think they are right to a large extent.
Romney is a really bad candidate, and is terrible at explaining ideas to those who do not share his ideology. Four years ago, there were dozens of houses in the affluent neighborhood next to mine that were sporting McCain/Palin signs. Not even one of these houses has a Romney sign this year.
He's going to lose the debate, and the election, unless some more Supreme Court shenanigans get pulled like in 2000.
My prediction is that democrats will declare victory for Obama, and the republicans will do the same for Romney. They will both greatly exaggerate the extent of their victories.
It's already been written. Just like last time when the ad about Palin's decisive victory over Biden was accidentally printed before the debate even happened.
^^This. I don't think I can stand to watch it.
I dunno. I think it may have some worth, even if the partisan machines on both sides have already decided. I plan to watch it, and with an open mind.
My prediction is that democrats will declare victory for Obama, and the republicans will do the same for Romney. They will both greatly exaggerate the extent of their victories.
It's already been written. Just like last time when the ad about Palin's decisive victory over Biden was accidentally printed before the debate even happened.
^^This. I don't think I can stand to watch it.
I dunno. I think it may have some worth, even if the partisan machines on both sides have already decided. I plan to watch it, and with an open mind.
GO
I plan to move around the Denver metro area only after the first debate is over.
My prediction is that democrats will declare victory for Obama, and the republicans will do the same for Romney. They will both greatly exaggerate the extent of their victories.
It's already been written. Just like last time when the ad about Palin's decisive victory over Biden was accidentally printed before the debate even happened.
^^This. I don't think I can stand to watch it.
I dunno. I think it may have some worth, even if the partisan machines on both sides have already decided. I plan to watch it, and with an open mind.
GO
As I said earlier... I plan to watch it, mainly for the comedy that it has been, and surely will be.
Who knows... Perhaps in a few years, Mitt will be in the "Sureal Life" house, or a comentator on TruLife's "World's Dumbest", along with all the other 'has beens' trying to extend their 15 minutes of fame.
(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Oct 3, 2012, 11:42 AM)
Romney is a really bad candidate, and is terrible at explaining ideas to those who do not share his ideology...
Actually, he can't explain his ideas to anybody. Once you peel back the sound-bite veneer of a Romney idea there is no workable plan underneath. Even the architect of his tax plan and running mate (Paul Ryan) stated that he could not explain the math behind their tax plan--because it would "take too long."
The more these debates focus on substance the worse Romney is going to look.
Romney is a really bad candidate, and is terrible at explaining ideas to those who do not share his ideology...
Actually, he can't explain his ideas to anybody. Once you peel back the sound-bite veneer of a Romney idea there is no workable plan underneath. Even the architect of his tax plan and running mate (Paul Ryan) stated that he could not explain the math behind their tax plan--because it would "take too long."
The more these debates focus on substance the worse Romney is going to look.
Curt
Post debate recap: other than the fact that everything Romney said was false, he won the debate.
Romney is a really bad candidate, and is terrible at explaining ideas to those who do not share his ideology...
Actually, he can't explain his ideas to anybody. Once you peel back the sound-bite veneer of a Romney idea there is no workable plan underneath. Even the architect of his tax plan and running mate (Paul Ryan) stated that he could not explain the math behind their tax plan--because it would "take too long."
The more these debates focus on substance the worse Romney is going to look.
Curt
Post debate recap: other than the fact that everything Romney said was false, he won the debate.
Moderator sucked, Romney amazingly enough won on style and delivery, even though all he delievered was quips, and more telling people what they want to hear, leaving the "how" to magic.
Mitt was well prepared, and the Prez seemed to never really engage.
Round 1... Mitt, on points only, as there were no significant blows delievered. Appears the Prez has some ring rust.
Y'all are wrong. Romney did not win the debate. Rather, I would say that Obama lost the debate. That guy just does not seem to understand the difference between a debate and a lecture.
Y'all are wrong. Romney did not win the debate. Rather, I would say that Obama lost the debate. That guy just does not seem to understand the difference between a debate and a lecture.
The endless dilemma of conservatism versus liberalism. Ideological bullet points can always be conveyed more than broad, pragmatic analyses.
Y'all are wrong. Romney did not win the debate. Rather, I would say that Obama lost the debate. That guy just does not seem to understand the difference between a debate and a lecture.
The endless dilemma of conservatism versus liberalism. Ideological bullet points can always be conveyed more than broad, pragmatic analyses.
Yep... Unfortunately, for many, if it takes more than a 10-15 word sentence to explain something, no matter how complex, it must be BS "fancy speak".
(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Oct 4, 2012, 8:16 AM)
Y'all are wrong. Romney did not win the debate. Rather, I would say that Obama lost the debate. That guy just does not seem to understand the difference between a debate and a lecture.
The endless dilemma of conservatism versus liberalism. Ideological bullet points can always be conveyed more than broad, pragmatic analyses.
Perhaps, but Obama had a few good opportunities to score really hard, and didn't grab them. For example, when Romney (talking about how much better things will be with the repeal of Obamacare) said something along the lines of "The free market will always give the best solutions." That was a *huge* opening. Had Obama prepared for such a moment, he could have delivered a devastating blow about how the healthcare industry has been operating under the free market, the banking industry, the housing industry - how well have all those performed for the American people?
Or, when Romney kept saying (I don't remember his exact words) "under my plan, we repeal Obamacare, and pass it to the states" - there was a big opportunity for Obama to go on the offensive and press Romney, asking something like: "So you mean that you intend to replace all of the points that everyone likes in Obamacare with... nothing? You intend to just hope the states will each individually take care of it?"
I thought Obama did a reasonably good job of articulating himself and his ideology, but that doesn't win over undecideds at this point. And really, he seemed underprepared, and tired. Honestly, I'm sympathetic, since unlike Romney, running a campaign and preparing for such things can't be his full-time job. I mean, he's still president, and there's a lot of shit going down. But I hope he finds some more time before the next debate to pull his shit together better. I think he has the capacity to crush Romney - he has real substance behind his talking points, and Romney has nothing. But he's gotta bring it a little better.
Moderator sucked, Romney amazingly enough won on style and delivery, even though all he delievered was quips, and more telling people what they want to hear, leaving the "how" to magic.
Mitt was well prepared, and the Prez seemed to never really engage.
Round 1... Mitt, on points only, as there were no significant blows delievered. Appears the Prez has some ring rust.
I got a chance to see some of the debate last night here in Brasil. Couldn't see all of it. Not surprised by the outcome. Romney is a really good debater. He showed that when he was running for Gov of Mass (and I voted for him then almost based on the debates - he was a different candidate by far). Those debates basically won him the election. Of course his opponent bombed when she offered to show her tattoo, but you can't pin that on Romney.
I still think Obama wins. Romney has simply said too many dumb things the past few weeks, but if a debate can change things, then Romney is dangerous.
Don't get a lot of news here; will there be a VP debate? I thought Biden was a damn good debater in the last election, too. I was really impressed by him on that night. I'd be interested in seeing how that goes. No clue if Ryan is any good.
Moderator sucked, Romney amazingly enough won on style and delivery, even though all he delievered was quips, and more telling people what they want to hear, leaving the "how" to magic.
Mitt was well prepared, and the Prez seemed to never really engage.
Round 1... Mitt, on points only, as there were no significant blows delievered. Appears the Prez has some ring rust.
I got a chance to see some of the debate last night here in Brasil. Couldn't see all of it. Not surprised by the outcome. Romney is a really good debater. He showed that when he was running for Gov of Mass (and I voted for him then almost based on the debates - he was a different candidate by far). Those debates basically won him the election. Of course his opponent bombed when she offered to show her tattoo, but you can't pin that on Romney.
I still think Obama wins. Romney has simply said too many dumb things the past few weeks, but if a debate can change things, then Romney is dangerous.
Don't get a lot of news here; will there be a VP debate? I thought Biden was a damn good debater in the last election, too. I was really impressed by him on that night. I'd be interested in seeing how that goes. No clue if Ryan is any good.
Y'all are wrong. Romney did not win the debate. Rather, I would say that Obama lost the debate. That guy just does not seem to understand the difference between a debate and a lecture.
Bullshit, osama may've been off his game, but Rmoney was all come at me bro!
Y'all are wrong. Romney did not win the debate. Rather, I would say that Obama lost the debate. That guy just does not seem to understand the difference between a debate and a lecture.
Bullshit, osama may've been off his game, but Rmoney was all come at me bro!
Perhaps, but Obama had a few good opportunities to score really hard, and didn't grab them. For example, when Romney (talking about how much better things will be with the repeal of Obamacare) said something along the lines of "The free market will always give the best solutions." That was a *huge* opening. Had Obama prepared for such a moment, he could have delivered a devastating blow about how the healthcare industry has been operating under the free market, the banking industry, the housing industry - how well have all those performed for the American people?
Or, when Romney kept saying (I don't remember his exact words) "under my plan, we repeal Obamacare, and pass it to the states" - there was a big opportunity for Obama to go on the offensive and press Romney, asking something like: "So you mean that you intend to replace all of the points that everyone likes in Obamacare with... nothing? You intend to just hope the states will each individually take care of it?"
Definitely. Those obvious missed opportunities are the toughest to watch; I still cringe when i think back about how Kerry was given an opportunity to respond to Bush saying "I think I'm an excellent steward of the environment," and he completely dropped the ball... sigh.
Perhaps, but Obama had a few good opportunities to score really hard, and didn't grab them. For example, when Romney (talking about how much better things will be with the repeal of Obamacare) said something along the lines of "The free market will always give the best solutions." That was a *huge* opening. Had Obama prepared for such a moment, he could have delivered a devastating blow about how the healthcare industry has been operating under the free market, the banking industry, the housing industry - how well have all those performed for the American people?
Or, when Romney kept saying (I don't remember his exact words) "under my plan, we repeal Obamacare, and pass it to the states" - there was a big opportunity for Obama to go on the offensive and press Romney, asking something like: "So you mean that you intend to replace all of the points that everyone likes in Obamacare with... nothing? You intend to just hope the states will each individually take care of it?"
Definitely. Those obvious missed opportunities are the toughest to watch; I still cringe when i think back about how Kerry was given an opportunity to respond to Bush saying "I think I'm an excellent steward of the environment," and he completely dropped the ball... sigh.
yeah... take a guy who would be great at giving a lengthy thorough answer, and forbid him to do that. Make him speak in bullet points, because that's what the public apparently wants to hear.
Watching debate makes me sick. I don't know why I actually expect a DEBATE, given past experiences, but somehow I do, and I get disappointed.
Moderator sucked, Romney amazingly enough won on style and delivery, even though all he delievered was quips, and more telling people what they want to hear, leaving the "how" to magic.
Mitt was well prepared, and the Prez seemed to never really engage.
Round 1... Mitt, on points only, as there were no significant blows delievered. Appears the Prez has some ring rust.
I got a chance to see some of the debate last night here in Brasil. Couldn't see all of it. Not surprised by the outcome. Romney is a really good debater. He showed that when he was running for Gov of Mass (and I voted for him then almost based on the debates - he was a different candidate by far). Those debates basically won him the election. Of course his opponent bombed when she offered to show her tattoo, but you can't pin that on Romney.
I still think Obama wins. Romney has simply said too many dumb things the past few weeks, but if a debate can change things, then Romney is dangerous.
Don't get a lot of news here; will there be a VP debate? I thought Biden was a damn good debater in the last election, too. I was really impressed by him on that night. I'd be interested in seeing how that goes. No clue if Ryan is any good.
there will be a veep debate, not sure when.
The VP debate is one week from today, October 11. The remaining two presidential debates are October 16th and October 22.
Edited to add: I don't think this one poor debate showing by Obama will really mean anything. I will be very disappointed, however, if he only manages two more "deer in the headlights" performances.
Curt
(This post was edited by curt on Oct 4, 2012, 12:24 PM)
On short term reaction, Romney won. In the longer term, he lost. Big time.
He lost because he dropped a whole new campaign strategy right in the Obama Campaign's lap. They already started using it today. They're playing off of his lies and tagging him as "untrustworthy".
He gave them the 1 word punch line that they can use to grind him into dust. It harkens to his long record of flip-flopping, and points out his most recent lies without calling him a liar.
If the campaign plays this right, they can define this as his brand, and crush him. This is way more powerful than any issue that they might beat him on. If you can successfully brand your opponent, you win. I already thought he was going to lose. After this debate I think he's going to lose even bigger.
In the next debates they need a way for Obama to reinforce this brand, without using the words untrustworthy or lie. They need something akin to Reagan's "there you go again", that in a folksy way dismisses anything Romney has to say and conjures up the "Untrustworthy" brand.
Something like, "it seems my opponent is a bit confused". When Romney tells a big lie, the President's rebuttal should be (with a twinkle in his eye to let America know that we're in on the joke with him), "Jim, it seems my opponent is a bit confused about some things. Remember last time when he forgot about the trillions in tax cuts for the wealthy he's campaigned on for a year? And he was confused about the tax breaks he got for sending American jobs to China? Now, we shouldn't be hard on him, campaigns are long and hard, and lots of people get confused when they're exhausted. So don't blame him so much for being confused about this (whatever the lie was), then list the succinct facts the prove the lie.
Romney really screwed the pooch last night. Then took it for a ride on top of the car.
Unless Obama finds a way to totally screw up, this thing is over.
Romney is a really bad candidate, and is terrible at explaining ideas to those who do not share his ideology...
Actually, he can't explain his ideas to anybody. Once you peel back the sound-bite veneer of a Romney idea there is no workable plan underneath. Even the architect of his tax plan and running mate (Paul Ryan) stated that he could not explain the math behind their tax plan--because it would "take too long."
The more these debates focus on substance the worse Romney is going to look.
Curt
Post debate recap: other than the fact that everything Romney said was false, he won the debate.
Romney is a really bad candidate, and is terrible at explaining ideas to those who do not share his ideology...
Actually, he can't explain his ideas to anybody. Once you peel back the sound-bite veneer of a Romney idea there is no workable plan underneath. Even the architect of his tax plan and running mate (Paul Ryan) stated that he could not explain the math behind their tax plan--because it would "take too long."
The more these debates focus on substance the worse Romney is going to look.
Curt
Post debate recap: other than the fact that everything Romney said was false, he won the debate.
4 /
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