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pinktricam


Dec 17, 2012, 1:07 PM
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If you believe guns are the problem, think again...
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I am Adam Lanza's mother

I found this to be a very thought provoking article on the mental health resources in this country.


Gmburns2000


Dec 17, 2012, 6:46 PM
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Re: [pinktricam] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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pinktricam wrote:
I am Adam Lanza's mother

I found this to be a very thought provoking article on the mental health resources in this country.

She has a tough life.

Mental illness is absolutely one of the first things to be cut during downturns in the economy, and one can certainly make an argument that these shootings are a result of some sort of mental illness. Help would absolutely have helped to prevent some, if not all, of these instances.

It doesn't change the fact that he couldn't have killed as many people with a knife, however. At least not without a lot of luck and long-term training.


Partner rrrADAM


Dec 18, 2012, 4:10 AM
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That has been a problem for a while... The mentally ill suffer in prisons and homelss on the streets.

Not so long ago, they had other options.

Unfortunately, our 2 parties have 2 different takes on this... The Blue one is to provide them help, despite their inability to pay for it... The Red one is to save the $$$ and let em go to the streets.


Gmburns2000


Dec 18, 2012, 4:57 AM
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rrrADAM wrote:
That has been a problem for a while... The mentally ill suffer in prisons and homelss on the streets.

Not so long ago, they had other options.

Unfortunately, our 2 parties have 2 different takes on this... The Blue one is to provide them help, despite their inability to pay for it... The Red one is to save the $$$ and let em go to the streets.

Not entirely true. When I worked for HWM in Massachusetts about 10 years ago, during that downturn, mental health was the first thing that got cut and both the House and Senate in MA were / are over 90% Democrat.


saint_john


Dec 18, 2012, 7:46 AM
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Re: [pinktricam] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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Guns are, without a doubt, the problem.
Semi auto rifles have no place in the hand of civilians.

The white, middle class people who are commiting these mass shootings are not going to purchase guns on the black market.


Partner macherry


Dec 18, 2012, 8:00 AM
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 this is an interesting article but, we do not know and probably will never know what drove lanza to his killing spree. to blame it on mental illness is premature.


while i am a supporter of gun control, the recent killings in schools, theatres, and malls are part of a more complex societal problem.


chadnsc


Dec 18, 2012, 9:40 AM
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Here is an idea:

If you own firearms lock them up.

If you own firearms and have a disturbed child who has access to your home, lock up your firearms.

The shooter couldn't have done this without getting access to his mother's firearms. He could not buy an AR15, handgun, or ammo and magazines as he was under age (21 years old by federal law to buy a handgun or carbine rifle).


Partner rrrADAM


Dec 18, 2012, 10:19 AM
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Re: [saint_john] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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saint_john wrote:
Guns are, without a doubt, the problem.
Semi auto rifles have no place in the hand of civilians.

The white, middle class people who are commiting these mass shootings are not going to purchase guns on the black market.

I do not agree with making such an absolute statement... While I believe that the ease of getting some types of weapons contributes to the problem, I believe it is also a cultural problem within our own society, that is in some way unique among the industrialized nations.


Gmburns2000


Dec 18, 2012, 10:51 AM
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Re: [saint_john] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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saint_john wrote:
Guns are, without a doubt, the problem.
Semi auto rifles have no place in the hand of civilians.

The white, middle class people who are commiting these mass shootings are not going to purchase guns on the black market.

Mental illness is definitely more of a problem than the guns. These people (regardless of race or class) have problems. You won't convince me otherwise.

To think these people are normal is fucking crazy. To think that gun control, and not access to help and / or proper diagnosis, is going to solve this alone is just as nuts.

These folks may not be able to kill a dozen or more people without easy access to guns, but they'd find a way to kill someone.


saint_john


Dec 18, 2012, 12:04 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
saint_john wrote:
Guns are, without a doubt, the problem.
Semi auto rifles have no place in the hand of civilians.

The white, middle class people who are commiting these mass shootings are not going to purchase guns on the black market.

Mental illness is definitely more of a problem than the guns. These people (regardless of race or class) have problems. You won't convince me otherwise.

To think these people are normal is fucking crazy. To think that gun control, and not access to help and / or proper diagnosis, is going to solve this alone is just as nuts.

These folks may not be able to kill a dozen or more people without easy access to guns, but they'd find a way to kill someone.

Had the assault rifle used to mow down those 20 children not been so easy to get they all might very well be alive today.

The "take away guns and they'll find other ways to kill people" arguement is tired and is not logical. How many mass murders in the US have been carried out by means other than guns? OKC is the only one I can think of.

Do people that think they have the right to own an assualt rifle believe their "right" is more important than the live's of the children that were murdered?


Gmburns2000


Dec 18, 2012, 1:38 PM
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Re: [saint_john] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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saint_john wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
saint_john wrote:
Guns are, without a doubt, the problem.
Semi auto rifles have no place in the hand of civilians.

The white, middle class people who are commiting these mass shootings are not going to purchase guns on the black market.

Mental illness is definitely more of a problem than the guns. These people (regardless of race or class) have problems. You won't convince me otherwise.

To think these people are normal is fucking crazy. To think that gun control, and not access to help and / or proper diagnosis, is going to solve this alone is just as nuts.

These folks may not be able to kill a dozen or more people without easy access to guns, but they'd find a way to kill someone.

Had the assault rifle used to mow down those 20 children not been so easy to get they all might very well be alive today.

The "take away guns and they'll find other ways to kill people" arguement is tired and is not logical. How many mass murders in the US have been carried out by means other than guns? OKC is the only one I can think of.

Do people that think they have the right to own an assualt rifle believe their "right" is more important than the live's of the children that were murdered?


No, it's not tired and illogical. It happens. I agree that guns make it easier, and I agree that gun control would help, but I'm saying these people have problems that drive them to do this. It's crazy to think that they wouldn't do this if a gun didn't exist. To ignore the mental illness problem is completely nuts within itself.

And just because these examples below are from China doesn't mean it couldn't happen here either (nearly all were done with knives of some sort).
http://en.wikipedia.org/..._(2010%E2%80%932011)

Look, I have lived in several countries where violent crime is significantly worse and significantly better than in the U.S. (and I've been a victim, too). Having lived in the U.K. where the police don't even carry guns, I believe that tighter controls would help, and I'd rather live in a world where guns don't exist. However, I also have family members who hunt (not my thing, but it's theirs, fine). I can never imagine them doing anything other than hunting with that gun.

But these rampage murderers ARE NOT normal people with access to guns. They are SICK people with access to guns. Again, to ignore that is just fucking whacked.


saint_john


Dec 18, 2012, 2:16 PM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
saint_john wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
saint_john wrote:
Guns are, without a doubt, the problem.
Semi auto rifles have no place in the hand of civilians.

The white, middle class people who are commiting these mass shootings are not going to purchase guns on the black market.

Mental illness is definitely more of a problem than the guns. These people (regardless of race or class) have problems. You won't convince me otherwise.

To think these people are normal is fucking crazy. To think that gun control, and not access to help and / or proper diagnosis, is going to solve this alone is just as nuts.

These folks may not be able to kill a dozen or more people without easy access to guns, but they'd find a way to kill someone.

Had the assault rifle used to mow down those 20 children not been so easy to get they all might very well be alive today.

The "take away guns and they'll find other ways to kill people" arguement is tired and is not logical. How many mass murders in the US have been carried out by means other than guns? OKC is the only one I can think of.

Do people that think they have the right to own an assualt rifle believe their "right" is more important than the live's of the children that were murdered?


No, it's not tired and illogical. It happens. I agree that guns make it easier, and I agree that gun control would help, but I'm saying these people have problems that drive them to do this. It's crazy to think that they wouldn't do this if a gun didn't exist. To ignore the mental illness problem is completely nuts within itself.

And just because these examples below are from China doesn't mean it couldn't happen here either (nearly all were done with knives of some sort).
http://en.wikipedia.org/..._(2010%E2%80%932011)

Look, I have lived in several countries where violent crime is significantly worse and significantly better than in the U.S. (and I've been a victim, too). Having lived in the U.K. where the police don't even carry guns, I believe that tighter controls would help, and I'd rather live in a world where guns don't exist. However, I also have family members who hunt (not my thing, but it's theirs, fine). I can never imagine them doing anything other than hunting with that gun.

But these rampage murderers ARE NOT normal people with access to guns. They are SICK people with access to guns. Again, to ignore that is just fucking whacked.

It's crazy to think that without a gun a shooting spree couldn't happen?


atg200


Dec 18, 2012, 2:18 PM
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Gmburns2000


Dec 18, 2012, 2:22 PM
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Re: [saint_john] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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saint_john wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
saint_john wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
saint_john wrote:
Guns are, without a doubt, the problem.
Semi auto rifles have no place in the hand of civilians.

The white, middle class people who are commiting these mass shootings are not going to purchase guns on the black market.

Mental illness is definitely more of a problem than the guns. These people (regardless of race or class) have problems. You won't convince me otherwise.

To think these people are normal is fucking crazy. To think that gun control, and not access to help and / or proper diagnosis, is going to solve this alone is just as nuts.

These folks may not be able to kill a dozen or more people without easy access to guns, but they'd find a way to kill someone.

Had the assault rifle used to mow down those 20 children not been so easy to get they all might very well be alive today.

The "take away guns and they'll find other ways to kill people" arguement is tired and is not logical. How many mass murders in the US have been carried out by means other than guns? OKC is the only one I can think of.

Do people that think they have the right to own an assualt rifle believe their "right" is more important than the live's of the children that were murdered?


No, it's not tired and illogical. It happens. I agree that guns make it easier, and I agree that gun control would help, but I'm saying these people have problems that drive them to do this. It's crazy to think that they wouldn't do this if a gun didn't exist. To ignore the mental illness problem is completely nuts within itself.

And just because these examples below are from China doesn't mean it couldn't happen here either (nearly all were done with knives of some sort).
http://en.wikipedia.org/..._(2010%E2%80%932011)

Look, I have lived in several countries where violent crime is significantly worse and significantly better than in the U.S. (and I've been a victim, too). Having lived in the U.K. where the police don't even carry guns, I believe that tighter controls would help, and I'd rather live in a world where guns don't exist. However, I also have family members who hunt (not my thing, but it's theirs, fine). I can never imagine them doing anything other than hunting with that gun.

But these rampage murderers ARE NOT normal people with access to guns. They are SICK people with access to guns. Again, to ignore that is just fucking whacked.

It's crazy to think that without a gun a shooting killing spree couldn't happen?

fixed - yes


camhead


Dec 18, 2012, 2:32 PM
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pinktricam wrote:
I am Adam Lanza's mother

I found this to be a very thought provoking article on the mental health resources in this country.

Hey Pinkie, guess which US President most drastically cut federal funding for mental health?


ubu


Dec 18, 2012, 2:50 PM
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camhead wrote:
pinktricam wrote:
I am Adam Lanza's mother

I found this to be a very thought provoking article on the mental health resources in this country.

Hey Pinkie, guess which US President most drastically cut federal funding for mental health?

I'm guessing that would be the same fine gentleman who earlier eviscerated the mental hospital system in California...


guangzhou


Dec 18, 2012, 6:41 PM
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I prefer to avoid gun debates. Doesn't seem to be any clear cut solution for me.

Even with government restrictions on gun-shops performing background checks before selling a weapon to individuals, I still see a major loophole in the system.

Private citizens selling guns to other private citizens. I don't mean black market deals or selling guns from the trunk of cars in dark alleys during the middle of the night either.

I mean picking up the newspaper, turning to the classified section of a newspaper and calling someone with a used gun for sell. legal and no background check.

"For sale, used Remington Model 770 30-06, passed on by my father, but I don't hunt." 500.00

Cheers
E


ubu


Dec 18, 2012, 6:53 PM
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guangzhou wrote:
I prefer to avoid gun debates. Doesn't seem to be any clear cut solution for me.

Even with government restrictions on gun-shops performing background checks before selling a weapon to individuals, I still see a major loophole in the system.

Private citizens selling guns to other private citizens. I don't mean black market deals or selling guns from the trunk of cars in dark alleys during the middle of the night either.

I mean picking up the newspaper, turning to the classified section of a newspaper and calling someone with a used gun for sell. legal and no background check.

"For sale, used Remington Model 770 30-06, passed on by my father, but I don't hunt." 500.00

Cheers
E

That's true, but hardly a reason to not prevent many tens of thousands of new military-inspired rifles to hit the streets each year.


atg200


Dec 19, 2012, 6:15 AM
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Partner rrrADAM


Dec 19, 2012, 7:44 AM
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atg200 wrote:
it is possible to strengthen gun control and improve mental health care simultaneously you know. they are not mutually exclusive.

Unfortunately, the same politicians that won't even consider improving gun control are the same assholes that have gutted the mental health budget, and want to continue to gut mental health by way of cutting funding from medicaid.

Well said, Andy.


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Dec 19, 2012, 7:44 AM)


petsfed


Dec 20, 2012, 12:06 PM
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atg200 wrote:
Guns should absolutely have a title in the same way cars do, and penalties should be very severe for the original owner if they a sell a gun without the paperwork and it is used for a crime.

Been saying this for as long as I've owned guns. If the law came into effect, I'd be first in line to get mine registered. There is absolutely no argument against gun registration that can't be addressed by not electing the mother fuckers who'd tap your phone without a warrant. Mother fuckers who, not coincidentally, tend to resist gun control. I always found it odd that the ones who try to scare people with the dishonesty and incompetence of the government are the same ones who work so hard to make it ineffective and untrustworthy (you know, to keep government small, and to help fight the terrorists/communists/brown people).


Kartessa


Dec 23, 2012, 8:46 AM
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pinktricam wrote:
I am Adam Lanza's mother

I found this to be a very thought provoking article on the mental health resources in this country.

So you're saying the US should spend more money on public health care in the interest of mental health, in order to prevent the mentally ill from ending up in prisons?


AkAxeMan


Dec 23, 2012, 11:07 AM
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When I was stationed in Japan a Japanese tennis player decided to go on a killing spree. He did this by driving a truck into a crowd of people then got out and started stabbing people. Guns aren't the problem, people are. Its actually easier to commit vehicular homicide and get away with it than any other kind. Can we now pressure the government to take away everyone's cars?


Kartessa


Dec 23, 2012, 12:32 PM
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AkAxeMan wrote:
When I was stationed in Japan a Japanese tennis player decided to go on a killing spree. He did this by driving a truck into a crowd of people then got out and started stabbing people. Guns aren't the problem, people are. Its actually easier to commit vehicular homicide and get away with it than any other kind. Can we now pressure the government to take away everyone's cars?

You're an idiot.

If you actually pulled your head from your ass to read the thread, you'd see people talking about licensing guns and limiting private sale, just as we already do with cars.

Its funny because there's less maniacs driving their cars into crowds to get their killer jollies going than fucktards with guns who find it too easy to point it at a person, pull the trigger and lights out.


chadnsc


Dec 24, 2012, 5:58 AM
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Kartessa wrote:
AkAxeMan wrote:
When I was stationed in Japan a Japanese tennis player decided to go on a killing spree. He did this by driving a truck into a crowd of people then got out and started stabbing people. Guns aren't the problem, people are. Its actually easier to commit vehicular homicide and get away with it than any other kind. Can we now pressure the government to take away everyone's cars?

You're an idiot.

If you actually pulled your head from your ass to read the thread, you'd see people talking about licensing guns and limiting private sale, just as we already do with cars.

Its funny because there's less maniacs driving their cars into crowds to get their killer jollies going than fucktards with guns who find it too easy to point it at a person, pull the trigger and lights out.

I am not stating my person views on firearms just stating some facts . . . .


Every state requires background checks and licenses to purchase and in some cases own firearms.

Some states (three I believe) however allow the sale of firearms at gun shows without background checks, just proof of ID and then registration of firearms.

It's Federal law that you must be 21 years old to purchase a handgun, carbine rifle (AR platform), and ammo for these firearms.


Gmburns2000


Dec 24, 2012, 8:07 AM
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Kartessa wrote:
AkAxeMan wrote:
When I was stationed in Japan a Japanese tennis player decided to go on a killing spree. He did this by driving a truck into a crowd of people then got out and started stabbing people. Guns aren't the problem, people are. Its actually easier to commit vehicular homicide and get away with it than any other kind. Can we now pressure the government to take away everyone's cars?

You're an idiot.

If you actually pulled your head from your ass to read the thread, you'd see people talking about licensing guns and limiting private sale, just as we already do with cars.

Its funny because there's are less fewer maniacs driving their cars into crowds to get their killer jollies going than fucktards with guns who find it too easy to point it at a person, pull the trigger and lights out.

Merry Christmas

Tongue


david_g48


Dec 24, 2012, 9:42 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
AkAxeMan wrote:
When I was stationed in Japan a Japanese tennis player decided to go on a killing spree. He did this by driving a truck into a crowd of people then got out and started stabbing people. Guns aren't the problem, people are. Its actually easier to commit vehicular homicide and get away with it than any other kind. Can we now pressure the government to take away everyone's cars?

You're an idiot.

If you actually pulled your head from your ass to read the thread, you'd see people talking about licensing guns and limiting private sale, just as we already do with cars.

Its funny because there's are less fewer maniacs driving their cars into crowds to get their killer jollies going than fucktards with guns who find it too easy to point it at a person, pull the trigger and lights out.

Merry Christmas

Tongue

+1 Gmburns
I wish Kartessa wouldn't hold back and start being candid.
Happy Holidays and Peace to All!


AkAxeMan


Dec 24, 2012, 2:57 PM
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Limiting car sales, thats a laugh. The only thing that limits car sales is the price. Any jack off can buy a car, you don't need a license or background check to purchase a vehicle. If you would take a moment to read my previous post you would notice that I wasn't opposing the governments control of firearms (all of mine are legally obtained and registered). I was stating that people will find a way to kill others with or without firearms and if you would open a history book you would see that humans have been killing each other for thousands of years just fine with blunt objects and sharp pointy things.


tready


Dec 24, 2012, 3:45 PM
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AkAxeMan wrote:
Limiting car sales, thats a laugh. The only thing that limits car sales is the price. Any jack off can buy a car, you don't need a license or background check to purchase a vehicle. If you would take a moment to read my previous post you would notice that I wasn't opposing the governments control of firearms (all of mine are legally obtained and registered). I was stating that people will find a way to kill others with or without firearms and if you would open a history book you would see that humans have been killing each other for thousands of years just fine with blunt objects and sharp pointy things.

No one has ever said violence would end if you eliminated guns. People have said, and rather accurately, that guns make violence (and especially killing) a lot easier.


AkAxeMan


Dec 24, 2012, 7:21 PM
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I will agree that killing with guns is easier, however I personally am not put off on the idea of killing with any number of things. Being that I believe I am a sane reasonable person I have to assume that there are any number of individuals out there who feel the same, sane or otherwise.


Kartessa


Dec 25, 2012, 8:55 AM
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AkAxeMan wrote:
I will agree that killing with guns is easier, however I personally am not put off on the idea of killing with any number of things. Being that I believe I am a sane reasonable person I have to assume that there are any number of individuals out there who feel the same, sane or otherwise.

I'm sure most other murderous nut jobs think they're sane, and its the rest of the world that's crazy.

http://www.thestar.com/...ghters-in-n-y-ambush

Looks like you'll need to start arming firemen too, can't just give guns to teachers.


chadnsc


Dec 25, 2012, 9:43 AM
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Kartessa wrote:
AkAxeMan wrote:
I will agree that killing with guns is easier, however I personally am not put off on the idea of killing with any number of things. Being that I believe I am a sane reasonable person I have to assume that there are any number of individuals out there who feel the same, sane or otherwise.

I'm sure most other murderous nut jobs think they're sane, and its the rest of the world that's crazy.

http://www.thestar.com/...ghters-in-n-y-ambush

Looks like you'll need to start arming firemen too, can't just give guns to teachers.

The shooter; a 61 year old mentally disturbed ex con who couldn't legally own a firearm.

The firearm he used; and 20 year old revolver owned by his sister (who lived with him). It was a .38 caliber that holds five rounds.


Kartessa


Dec 25, 2012, 11:52 AM
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Re: [chadnsc] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
AkAxeMan wrote:
I will agree that killing with guns is easier, however I personally am not put off on the idea of killing with any number of things. Being that I believe I am a sane reasonable person I have to assume that there are any number of individuals out there who feel the same, sane or otherwise.

I'm sure most other murderous nut jobs think they're sane, and its the rest of the world that's crazy.

http://www.thestar.com/...ghters-in-n-y-ambush

Looks like you'll need to start arming firemen too, can't just give guns to teachers.

The shooter; a 61 year old mentally disturbed ex con who couldn't legally own a firearm.

The firearm he used; and 20 year old revolver owned by his sister (who lived with him). It was a .38 caliber that holds five rounds.

Damn Chad, I didnt think you were one of those "selective truth" types.

You left out the 2 other weapons he used. Please, since you know so much about guns, tell us more about those too.


Kartessa


Dec 25, 2012, 11:59 AM
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Re: [Kartessa] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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Kartessa wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
AkAxeMan wrote:
I will agree that killing with guns is easier, however I personally am not put off on the idea of killing with any number of things. Being that I believe I am a sane reasonable person I have to assume that there are any number of individuals out there who feel the same, sane or otherwise.

I'm sure most other murderous nut jobs think they're sane, and its the rest of the world that's crazy.

http://www.thestar.com/...ghters-in-n-y-ambush

Looks like you'll need to start arming firemen too, can't just give guns to teachers.

The shooter; a 61 year old mentally disturbed ex con who couldn't legally own a firearm.

The firearm he used; and 20 year old revolver owned by his sister (who lived with him). It was a .38 caliber that holds five rounds.

Damn Chad, I didnt think you were one of those "selective truth" types.

You left out the 2 other weapons he used. Please, since you know so much about guns, tell us more about those too.

I'll even help you:

http://www.nytimes.com/...ewanted=all&_r=0


chadnsc


Dec 25, 2012, 2:00 PM
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Re: [Kartessa] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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Kartessa wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
AkAxeMan wrote:
I will agree that killing with guns is easier, however I personally am not put off on the idea of killing with any number of things. Being that I believe I am a sane reasonable person I have to assume that there are any number of individuals out there who feel the same, sane or otherwise.

I'm sure most other murderous nut jobs think they're sane, and its the rest of the world that's crazy.

http://www.thestar.com/...ghters-in-n-y-ambush

Looks like you'll need to start arming firemen too, can't just give guns to teachers.

The shooter; a 61 year old mentally disturbed ex con who couldn't legally own a firearm.

The firearm he used; and 20 year old revolver owned by his sister (who lived with him). It was a .38 caliber that holds five rounds.

Damn Chad, I didnt think you were one of those "selective truth" types.

You left out the 2 other weapons he used. Please, since you know so much about guns, tell us more about those too.

Don't get uppity with me you little brat.

I'm not being selective about anything.

I didn't read about the other two weapons, the news that I heard on NPR said that he used a 20 year old revolver that belonged to his sister.

I think you're attaching a bit to much personal bias to this subject. I'm not making social commentary, just reporting what information I have heard.

Edit: I can't type or spell today.


(This post was edited by chadnsc on Dec 25, 2012, 2:07 PM)


chadnsc


Dec 25, 2012, 2:06 PM
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Re: [Kartessa] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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Kartessa wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
AkAxeMan wrote:
I will agree that killing with guns is easier, however I personally am not put off on the idea of killing with any number of things. Being that I believe I am a sane reasonable person I have to assume that there are any number of individuals out there who feel the same, sane or otherwise.

I'm sure most other murderous nut jobs think they're sane, and its the rest of the world that's crazy.

http://www.thestar.com/...ghters-in-n-y-ambush

Looks like you'll need to start arming firemen too, can't just give guns to teachers.

The shooter; a 61 year old mentally disturbed ex con who couldn't legally own a firearm.

The firearm he used; and 20 year old revolver owned by his sister (who lived with him). It was a .38 caliber that holds five rounds.

Damn Chad, I didnt think you were one of those "selective truth" types.

You left out the 2 other weapons he used. Please, since you know so much about guns, tell us more about those too.

I'll even help you:

http://www.nytimes.com/...ewanted=all&_r=0

Thanks for a more in depth link. What I had heard on NPR was that he had used a .38 revolver, the same he used to commit suicide with.

There was probably a bit of confusion about what weapon(s) he used for the shooting and what weapon he used to end his own life.

It is very interesting to see that the police are uncertain how he got the weapons as he can't legally purchase or own any. It' seems that he stole them, just like in the previous school shooting. Bad, bad things.


lena_chita
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Dec 25, 2012, 2:07 PM
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Re: [chadnsc] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
AkAxeMan wrote:
I will agree that killing with guns is easier, however I personally am not put off on the idea of killing with any number of things. Being that I believe I am a sane reasonable person I have to assume that there are any number of individuals out there who feel the same, sane or otherwise.

I'm sure most other murderous nut jobs think they're sane, and its the rest of the world that's crazy.

http://www.thestar.com/...ghters-in-n-y-ambush

Looks like you'll need to start arming firemen too, can't just give guns to teachers.

The shooter; a 61 year old mentally disturbed ex con who couldn't legally own a firearm.

The firearm he used; and 20 year old revolver owned by his sister (who lived with him). It was a .38 caliber that holds five rounds.

He also used bushmaster, I thought?



It is well-established statistics, that, rather than increase your safety, owning a gun makes you and/or your family members more likely to die or get injured in a gun-related incident.

Case in point-- Adam Lonza's mother (who owned her guns completely legally), was killed from the gun that she owned, her son, and 26 innocent people died in the bargain.

The link above also fits the same pattern.


chadnsc


Dec 25, 2012, 2:10 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
AkAxeMan wrote:
I will agree that killing with guns is easier, however I personally am not put off on the idea of killing with any number of things. Being that I believe I am a sane reasonable person I have to assume that there are any number of individuals out there who feel the same, sane or otherwise.

I'm sure most other murderous nut jobs think they're sane, and its the rest of the world that's crazy.

http://www.thestar.com/...ghters-in-n-y-ambush

Looks like you'll need to start arming firemen too, can't just give guns to teachers.

The shooter; a 61 year old mentally disturbed ex con who couldn't legally own a firearm.

The firearm he used; and 20 year old revolver owned by his sister (who lived with him). It was a .38 caliber that holds five rounds.

He also used bushmaster, I thought?



It is well-established statistics, that, rather than increase your safety, owning a gun makes you and/or your family members more likely to die or get injured in a gun-related incident.

Case in point-- Adam Lonza's mother (who owned her guns completely legally), was killed from the gun that she owned, her son, and 26 innocent people died in the bargain.

The link above also fits the same pattern.

I agree. I can't know how much it would have helped but it's too bad that people don't seem to lock up their firearms anymore.

Edit to add:

I know it's being nit picky but that data you're referring to says that owning a handgun makes you and/or your family members more likely to die or get injured in a gun-related incident.


(This post was edited by chadnsc on Dec 25, 2012, 2:14 PM)


Kartessa


Dec 25, 2012, 4:10 PM
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Re: [chadnsc] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
AkAxeMan wrote:
I will agree that killing with guns is easier, however I personally am not put off on the idea of killing with any number of things. Being that I believe I am a sane reasonable person I have to assume that there are any number of individuals out there who feel the same, sane or otherwise.

I'm sure most other murderous nut jobs think they're sane, and its the rest of the world that's crazy.

http://www.thestar.com/...ghters-in-n-y-ambush

Looks like you'll need to start arming firemen too, can't just give guns to teachers.

The shooter; a 61 year old mentally disturbed ex con who couldn't legally own a firearm.

The firearm he used; and 20 year old revolver owned by his sister (who lived with him). It was a .38 caliber that holds five rounds.

Damn Chad, I didnt think you were one of those "selective truth" types.

You left out the 2 other weapons he used. Please, since you know so much about guns, tell us more about those too.

I'll even help you:

http://www.nytimes.com/...ewanted=all&_r=0

Thanks for a more in depth link. What I had heard on NPR was that he had used a .38 revolver, the same he used to commit suicide with.

There was probably a bit of confusion about what weapon(s) he used for the shooting and what weapon he used to end his own life.

It is very interesting to see that the police are uncertain how he got the weapons as he can't legally purchase or own any. It' seems that he stole them, just like in the previous school shooting. Bad, bad things.

Considering he was far away from the firefighters (it took hours to find him), I'd assume the revolver was for him and the bushmaster/shotgun combo to shoot the responders.

Hard to get good accuracy from far away with a revolver. Don't forget that he was sending a lot of bullets down, takes too long to reload a revolver when your goal is to "kill as many as possible"


pinktricam


Dec 25, 2012, 5:03 PM
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Re: [chadnsc] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
I know it's being nit picky but that data you're referring to says that owning a handgun makes you and/or your family members more likely to die or get injured in a gun-related incident.

I know it's not nit picking and you know it's not nit picking, but attempting to educate the slobs on this forum is a futile effort. All they know is what an ignorant and sensationalist media feeds them and the opportunistic, unpatriotic and un-American ideologies politicians rant about.

Sadly, 99% of them can't explain the difference between an assault weapon and an assault rifle. I'd bet dollars to donuts that 100% of the blubberers here believe the "AR" in AR-15 means assault rifle!

Look how this thread has digressed; from a legitamate point on the very real state of affairs of this nation's mental health system to gun haters ill informed rants.


pinktricam


Dec 25, 2012, 6:39 PM
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Re: [atg200] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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atg200 wrote:
it is possible to strengthen gun control and improve mental health care simultaneously you know. they are not mutually exclusive.

Unfortunately, the same politicians that won't even consider improving gun control are the same assholes that have gutted the mental health budget, and want to continue to gut mental health by way of cutting funding from medicaid.

Prayerfully hoping the mindset in DC can begin to improve both institutions so as to save future lives and souls the unfathomable heartbreak of such loss; of such tragedy and unspeakable evil.

Amen.


lena_chita
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Dec 25, 2012, 6:55 PM
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Re: [chadnsc] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
AkAxeMan wrote:
I will agree that killing with guns is easier, however I personally am not put off on the idea of killing with any number of things. Being that I believe I am a sane reasonable person I have to assume that there are any number of individuals out there who feel the same, sane or otherwise.

I'm sure most other murderous nut jobs think they're sane, and its the rest of the world that's crazy.

http://www.thestar.com/...ghters-in-n-y-ambush

Looks like you'll need to start arming firemen too, can't just give guns to teachers.

The shooter; a 61 year old mentally disturbed ex con who couldn't legally own a firearm.

The firearm he used; and 20 year old revolver owned by his sister (who lived with him). It was a .38 caliber that holds five rounds.

He also used bushmaster, I thought?



It is well-established statistics, that, rather than increase your safety, owning a gun makes you and/or your family members more likely to die or get injured in a gun-related incident.

Case in point-- Adam Lonza's mother (who owned her guns completely legally), was killed from the gun that she owned, her son, and 26 innocent people died in the bargain.

The link above also fits the same pattern.

I agree. I can't know how much it would have helped but it's too bad that people don't seem to lock up their firearms anymore.

Edit to add:

I know it's being nit picky but that data you're referring to says that owning a handgun makes you and/or your family members more likely to die or get injured in a gun-related incident.


Yes, that study specified handguns. But do you really think it would be different for others?


lena_chita
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Dec 25, 2012, 6:57 PM
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Re: [pinktricam] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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pinktricam wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
I know it's being nit picky but that data you're referring to says that owning a handgun makes you and/or your family members more likely to die or get injured in a gun-related incident.

I know it's not nit picking and you know it's not nit picking, but attempting to educate the slobs on this forum is a futile effort. All they know is what an ignorant and sensationalist media feeds them and the opportunistic, unpatriotic and un-American ideologies politicians rant about.

Sadly, 99% of them can't explain the difference between an assault weapon and an assault rifle. I'd bet dollars to donuts that 100% of the blubberers here believe the "AR" in AR-15 means assault rifle!

Look how this thread has digressed; from a legitamate point on the very real state of affairs of this nation's mental health system to gun haters ill informed rants.


Selective quoting much?

You missed this part of chad's response:

chadnsc wrote:
I agree. I can't know how much it would have helped but it's too bad that people don't seem to lock up their firearms anymore.


pinktricam


Dec 25, 2012, 8:32 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
Selective quoting much?

You missed this part of chad's response:

chadnsc wrote:
I agree. I can't know how much it would have helped but it's too bad that people don't seem to lock up their firearms anymore.

I generally "quote" to make a specific point. But, for you, I'll try to remember to restate the obvious.


pinktricam


Dec 25, 2012, 11:03 PM
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Re: [guangzhou] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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guangzhou wrote:
For sale, used Remington Model 770 30-06, passed on by my father, but I don't hunt." 500.00.

I'd hit that.


chadnsc


Dec 26, 2012, 6:58 AM
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Re: [Kartessa] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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Kartessa wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
AkAxeMan wrote:
I will agree that killing with guns is easier, however I personally am not put off on the idea of killing with any number of things. Being that I believe I am a sane reasonable person I have to assume that there are any number of individuals out there who feel the same, sane or otherwise.

I'm sure most other murderous nut jobs think they're sane, and its the rest of the world that's crazy.

http://www.thestar.com/...ghters-in-n-y-ambush

Looks like you'll need to start arming firemen too, can't just give guns to teachers.

The shooter; a 61 year old mentally disturbed ex con who couldn't legally own a firearm.

The firearm he used; and 20 year old revolver owned by his sister (who lived with him). It was a .38 caliber that holds five rounds.

Damn Chad, I didnt think you were one of those "selective truth" types.

You left out the 2 other weapons he used. Please, since you know so much about guns, tell us more about those too.

I'll even help you:

http://www.nytimes.com/...ewanted=all&_r=0

Thanks for a more in depth link. What I had heard on NPR was that he had used a .38 revolver, the same he used to commit suicide with.

There was probably a bit of confusion about what weapon(s) he used for the shooting and what weapon he used to end his own life.

It is very interesting to see that the police are uncertain how he got the weapons as he can't legally purchase or own any. It' seems that he stole them, just like in the previous school shooting. Bad, bad things.

Considering he was far away from the firefighters (it took hours to find him), I'd assume the revolver was for him and the bushmaster/shotgun combo to shoot the responders.

Hard to get good accuracy from far away with a revolver. Don't forget that he was sending a lot of bullets down, takes too long to reload a revolver when your goal is to "kill as many as possible"

Considering that your first article said nothing about the range and number of shots placed I find it hard to make any type of informed judgement call.

Also at the time of my post the media was only reporting the two fatalities, not the 16 wounded. So yes I honestly thought that when NPR said 'he (the shooter) was found .38 caliber revolver' and made no mention of any other weapons that he had done all of this with a revolver.


chadnsc


Dec 26, 2012, 6:58 AM
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Re: [lena_chita] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
AkAxeMan wrote:
I will agree that killing with guns is easier, however I personally am not put off on the idea of killing with any number of things. Being that I believe I am a sane reasonable person I have to assume that there are any number of individuals out there who feel the same, sane or otherwise.

I'm sure most other murderous nut jobs think they're sane, and its the rest of the world that's crazy.

http://www.thestar.com/...ghters-in-n-y-ambush

Looks like you'll need to start arming firemen too, can't just give guns to teachers.

The shooter; a 61 year old mentally disturbed ex con who couldn't legally own a firearm.

The firearm he used; and 20 year old revolver owned by his sister (who lived with him). It was a .38 caliber that holds five rounds.

He also used bushmaster, I thought?



It is well-established statistics, that, rather than increase your safety, owning a gun makes you and/or your family members more likely to die or get injured in a gun-related incident.

Case in point-- Adam Lonza's mother (who owned her guns completely legally), was killed from the gun that she owned, her son, and 26 innocent people died in the bargain.

The link above also fits the same pattern.

I agree. I can't know how much it would have helped but it's too bad that people don't seem to lock up their firearms anymore.

Edit to add:

I know it's being nit picky but that data you're referring to says that owning a handgun makes you and/or your family members more likely to die or get injured in a gun-related incident.


Yes, that study specified handguns. But do you really think it would be different for others?

Yes I do.


lena_chita
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Dec 26, 2012, 8:37 AM
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Re: [chadnsc] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
AkAxeMan wrote:
I will agree that killing with guns is easier, however I personally am not put off on the idea of killing with any number of things. Being that I believe I am a sane reasonable person I have to assume that there are any number of individuals out there who feel the same, sane or otherwise.

I'm sure most other murderous nut jobs think they're sane, and its the rest of the world that's crazy.

http://www.thestar.com/...ghters-in-n-y-ambush

Looks like you'll need to start arming firemen too, can't just give guns to teachers.

The shooter; a 61 year old mentally disturbed ex con who couldn't legally own a firearm.

The firearm he used; and 20 year old revolver owned by his sister (who lived with him). It was a .38 caliber that holds five rounds.

He also used bushmaster, I thought?



It is well-established statistics, that, rather than increase your safety, owning a gun makes you and/or your family members more likely to die or get injured in a gun-related incident.

Case in point-- Adam Lonza's mother (who owned her guns completely legally), was killed from the gun that she owned, her son, and 26 innocent people died in the bargain.

The link above also fits the same pattern.

I agree. I can't know how much it would have helped but it's too bad that people don't seem to lock up their firearms anymore.

Edit to add:

I know it's being nit picky but that data you're referring to says that owning a handgun makes you and/or your family members more likely to die or get injured in a gun-related incident.


Yes, that study specified handguns. But do you really think it would be different for others?

Yes I do.

Would you care to elaborate? What's the reasoning behind it?


chadnsc


Dec 26, 2012, 9:05 AM
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Re: [lena_chita] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
Kartessa wrote:
AkAxeMan wrote:
I will agree that killing with guns is easier, however I personally am not put off on the idea of killing with any number of things. Being that I believe I am a sane reasonable person I have to assume that there are any number of individuals out there who feel the same, sane or otherwise.

I'm sure most other murderous nut jobs think they're sane, and its the rest of the world that's crazy.

http://www.thestar.com/...ghters-in-n-y-ambush

Looks like you'll need to start arming firemen too, can't just give guns to teachers.

The shooter; a 61 year old mentally disturbed ex con who couldn't legally own a firearm.

The firearm he used; and 20 year old revolver owned by his sister (who lived with him). It was a .38 caliber that holds five rounds.

He also used bushmaster, I thought?



It is well-established statistics, that, rather than increase your safety, owning a gun makes you and/or your family members more likely to die or get injured in a gun-related incident.

Case in point-- Adam Lonza's mother (who owned her guns completely legally), was killed from the gun that she owned, her son, and 26 innocent people died in the bargain.

The link above also fits the same pattern.

I agree. I can't know how much it would have helped but it's too bad that people don't seem to lock up their firearms anymore.

Edit to add:

I know it's being nit picky but that data you're referring to says that owning a handgun makes you and/or your family members more likely to die or get injured in a gun-related incident.


Yes, that study specified handguns. But do you really think it would be different for others?

Yes I do.

Would you care to elaborate? What's the reasoning behind it?


Years data collected by various studies on gun violence.


Any firearm can be used for violence. It's just that larger / longer firearms using bolt and pump actions are very deliberate and cumbersome firearms that take time to load, aim and fire. Even large caliber semi auto shotguns and rifles are somewhat cumbersome to load and chamber. Handguns on the other hand are very easy to conceal, point and shoot.

I think that the ease of which handguns can be concealed and fired allows people to fire off a shot 'in the heat of the moment' so to speak while long guns (rifles and shotguns) generally do not.

Compound this with the odd occurrence that most firearms owners will keep their long guns unloaded and tucked a way in a protective case but keep a handgun loaded and easily accessible. I believe this is done for the idea of personal protection.

I haven't mention the carbine rifles (AR platforms) because these smaller caliber, short barreled, semiautomatic rifles are in a class all of their own.


Toast_in_the_Machine


Dec 27, 2012, 10:57 AM
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pinktricam wrote:
Sadly, 99% of them can't explain the difference between an assault weapon and an assault rifle. I'd bet dollars to donuts that 100% of the blubberers here believe the "AR" in AR-15 means assault rifle!
I'm a gun owner. I don't know what "AR" stands for. I never thought it stood for assault rifle. I assumed it had something to do with manufacturing but never really gave a shit. I still don't care what it stands for. I even occasionally use the word "clip" instead of "magazine" because it pisses tightwads off that think that the terms used need to be exact because guns are serious business. (I also use "arrrg" for both "on belay" and "climbing" because it is similarly wrong.)

Since I'm working on weight loss, I'll take the dollars over the doughnuts.


AkAxeMan


Dec 27, 2012, 8:33 PM
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Registered: Nov 25, 2012
Posts: 16

Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] If you believe guns are the problem, think again... [In reply to]
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
pinktricam wrote:
Sadly, 99% of them can't explain the difference between an assault weapon and an assault rifle. I'd bet dollars to donuts that 100% of the blubberers here believe the "AR" in AR-15 means assault rifle!
I'm a gun owner. I don't know what "AR" stands for. I never thought it stood for assault rifle. I assumed it had something to do with manufacturing but never really gave a shit. I still don't care what it stands for. I even occasionally use the word "clip" instead of "magazine" because it pisses tightwads off that think that the terms used need to be exact because guns are serious business. (I also use "arrrg" for both "on belay" and "climbing" because it is similarly wrong.)

Since I'm working on weight loss, I'll take the dollars over the doughnuts.

AR stands for ArmaLite. They were the first company who produced the weapons.


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