It all comes to the fact that it is part of the Constitution. And as such, it can't be altered, ever, Because everyone knows that Constitution has never been amended. It is written is stone, like those Babylonian tablets, and anything that was said in the 18th century is still correct, because the world had not changed at all.

So, you see, people in America are trying to dance around it with various band-aids, such as banning the assault weapons ( to be defined precisely at some point, because they are not yet defined precisely) and forbidding the large capacity magazines by reducing the maximum allowable number of bullets to another arbitrary number, instead of coming out with the most logical thing, which is to re-examine the whole premise of the second amendment and it is need/usefulness in the modern world.

And while they do it, the rest of thew world is looking on with some confusion and trying to understand something that defies understanding,

It appears that BO has been the most incredible thing to have happened to the firearms industry. Sales have not come remotely close to these past weeks figures since, well, since his first inauguration.

BO has had an agenda towards making guns disappear and it's working! I have never seen the guns at my LGS's disappear so fast.

This is good for America and American jobs. Thank you BO, you've finally done something positive for the economic slump we've been in since you've been in office.

It has indeed been a boon without bailouts to a great all American industry! As well as a great shot in the arm to an all American tradition. Why, did you know that here in the "gunshine" state we're about to pass a milestone in concealed carry weapons permits....yes, over 1,000,000!

Thank you, BO. Thank you for all you've done to make it possible. I doff my hat to your efforts, sir. Indeed, you rock!

Don't you mean that he's give manufactures a way to play off peoples bias and fears so they can price gouge the general public in regards to the cost of firearms and ammo?

BO has had an agenda towards making guns disappear and it's working!

Oh, btw, my mini's no longer up for sale.

Um, no....MSRP's haven't changed. What has changed are the prices on firearms by opportunistic, blood-sucking gun dealers.

Um, no....MSRP's haven't changed. What has changed are the prices on firearms by opportunistic, blood-sucking gun dealers.

Why do you hate our free market system, pinko?

Since you believe in ma joc, I won;t ask why you believe the above... As it is apparent that you will believe ANYTHING.

Edited for hilarity

And since they can't be racists or sexists anymore, they cling to the legal justification for that particular brand of count-to-potato stupidity.

Bullshit.

The MSRP for a base AR 15 platform was around $900 five years ago, no they are in the $1,800 range.

I'm not sure if you're friends with any firearms dealers but I am and the MSRP has gone up nearly 190% over the past six years. This is way out of the norm for firearms where normally you could expect to see a rise of maybe 20%

No, not bullshit.

I don't know where you're shopping, but a basic AR 15 can still be found for < $800.

You can build one for < $800, too.

You're full of it.

You can get a DPMS or Bushmaster for around $900 with a flat top receiver and no sights.

Sights will run you around $150 depending on what make and model you're getting.

I'm not talking about a DPMS or Bushmaster you sister fucking ignoramus, so
quit it with your lying ass hype and take a look around the Net before you open your cocksucker.

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi

Go pound sand....I hadn't had my coffee.

An excuse for being a shitty human being if I have ever heard one.

What's yours?

I try not to make excuses.

I'm not talking about a DPMS or Bushmaster you sister fucking ignoramus, so
quit it with your lying ass hype and take a look around the Net before you open your cocksucker.

As far as I've noticed, the 2nd ammendment is the only one that enumerates rights that people treat as obligations.

jesus is listening

Pinktricam = Cartman.

If ever you remove that ass-impaled head of yours enough to see some light, you might take note that, regardless of the minority of paranoid knuckle-draggers you may attempt to invoke, it is the 2nd Amendment's point that an armed citizenry is what ultimately protects free speech!

...it is the 2nd Amendment's point that an armed citizenry is what ultimately protects free speech!

I'm not talking about a DPMS or Bushmaster you sister fucking ignoramus, so
quit it with your lying ass hype and take a look around the Net before you open your cocksucker.

Gotcha!!! You feel empowered to talk SH|T to people because you have a gun.

In my book, that's a PUNK.

It's amusing how people's predetermined biases color their perceptions.

Anyway, if anyone is interested in actually buying, or building an AR-15, I'd be happy to point them in the right direction with some links PM'd that are more affordable than what the lying idiot from Minnesota is spouting.

Simply post them up. I'm all for being shown that I'm incorrect, especially if I can get an AR platform for under $800

Right, because between my 30-30 and your AR-15 clone, we stand a good chance of stopping an APC.

You've got the absolute right to own a firearm. No denyin' that. But there's absolutely nothing, NOT A FUCKING THING requiring you to carry one every day, where ever you go. Its been more than a century since anyone had to carry a gun just to get to the meeting house for fear of Indians.

I'm principally worried about the gun-toting loonies, because loonies, by and large, are the ones who start killing people. Having grown up in a gun-owning (and celebrating: I inherited my gunS from a proud grandfather) family, when I see the dumb assholes who openly carry a gun to a political rally, I'm honestly embarrassed to be called a gun owner.

You can jack-off to your John McClane fantasies all you like pinky. I play video games for the same illusion of agency, but ultimately, this wrong-headed obsession with firearms, this delusion that a tool can give you the means to right all wrongs, is what's causing these stupid massacres. Please, the next time you think to yourself "if only I'd been there with my gun", take a cold shower. I can guarantee that the killers' fantasies start with the same phrase.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned a sweet deal on this ($699) on the gun porn thread not so long ago, but Google S&W M&P15 Sport model...MSRP: $739.

Anything else I can help you with? Like the CTD article with a list of parts to build your own AR on the cheap.

Now STFU and enjoy the crow.

You know what is more interesting than bickering about AR15 prices and parts? Absolutely everything.

You know what is more interesting than bickering about AR15 prices and parts? Absolutely everything.

You know, none of us go onto gun forums and argue about climbing...

$839<$1800

You know, none of us go onto gun forums and argue about climbing...

You know, none of us go onto gun forums and argue about climbing...

Let's start doing that...

Curt

+1 . . . seriously. I don't know what is up with this place and guns!

Guns aren't the real problem, we should ban hammers from public use and purchasing.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/03/FBI-More-People-Killed-With-Hammers-and-Clubs-Each-Year-Than-With-Rifles

The FBI is stating that hammers and blunt objects are used to kill more frequently than guns. Just some food for thought.

I retract my previous statement, i Just finished reading the report, More people are killed with hammers and blunt objects than with rifles. Looks like guns across the board are used more frequently, however it also looks like Hands, Fists, Feet, etc are used more frequently than rifles as well. should we ban hands?

So, you seem a little slow, given that you get your news from Breitbart, so I'm going to try to lead you through this with baby steps--

-Ricin has essentially no use or benefit beyond killing people, so it is strictly illegal to have in any quantity.

-Cyanide is also very good for killing people, but it has some limited uses that go beyond just killing people, say, for mining, so some people can obtain it, with a lot of regulation and paper work.

-Nitrogen fertilizer can be used to make explosives, but it has even more widespread and practical use than cyanide, so it is even easier to obtain, but you still need to jump through some bureaucratic hoops to get it.

You following me so far?

Nearly everything this side of ricin has some sort of practical, beneficial use that does not directly involve killing people. Cars kill thousands a year (actually, more than that if we factor in carbon emissions), but benefit billions. Hammers, scissors, and fists kill a few hundred a year, but also benefit billions, and have more and better non-lethal uses than they do lethal ones.

Still with me?

Of all guns, rifles probably have the MOST practical, non-lethal-to-human uses. They're great for hunting and varmint control, but not really the best tools for killing lots of people quickly. Hmm, maybe that's why they were compared to hammers in your study?

Handguns, in particular, semi-automatics? What is their practical, non-lethal use? There is not a lot of evidence that they are used for so much self-defense that they should be freely available. Sometimes they can be useful in the hands of trained law-enforcement officials, though. So, it would make sense to treat handguns like cyanide; lethal, but limited useful application, so perhaps we should limit and regulate their use and ownership.

So, tell me, what are the practical uses for semi-automatic rifles with banana clips like the AR? They're not the best tool for game hunting, and there are other guns out there that are both better for hunting and not so good for mass shootings. They would also suck for self-defense; you're not going to keep one concealed in your jacket to pull out quickly when that mass shooter busts into your classroom or theater.

In other words, their ratio of lethal to practical use is more on the side of ricin than of hammers. Laws should reflect that.

Any questions?

Most hunters carry a sidearm for situations where getting off multiple rounds quickly, in close quarters, is called for, where a bolt-action rifle isn't the best tool.

Just cuz you ain't heard of it don't mean it ain't so.

Where I grew up (northern B.C., SE Alaska), where there is lots of dense brush and it's easy to surprise/get surprised by bear or moose, it was commonplace to carry .44 mag or bigger. When your rifle is slung over your shoulder and you're trying to move through rugged terrain and dense brush, and you maybe have only 1 hand available, the rifle ain't gonna cut it.

Your choice to carry bear spray. I'd want something more when a bear decides it wants to terrorize a campsite all night long, returning to attack people in tents multiple times over the course of several hours. Bear spray is useful against bears that might be trying to remove a perceived threat from their space, not as useful for a bear that is in determined predation mode.

And pepper spray isn't much fun if you have a stiff wind in your face.

Friends of mine had an hour long standoff with a mountain lion. They were hiking when they 'caught' him stalking them. He was readying to pounce from about 15 feet away when they made eye contact and he froze. When they tried to slowly back away he would advance. They threw rocks, sticks, anything they could grab, nothing would get him to back down. After an entire hour of that he finally decided they were too much trouble. I think I would want to have ANY caliber gun in that situation.

Feel free to add/edit this, I'm trying to understand how this works a little better.

In General Terms:

Although guns are attributed to a large percentage of violent deaths in the USA, there are people are still against doing anything about it, claiming that there are so many other things out there that can be dangerous in the hands of a criminal too, so why centre out guns? "If keeping my gun means that people out there are shooting at each other with automatic weapons, so be it."

Or in Trad-Climber Terms:

Its like if you had 10 ham sammiches and 9 friends, but you want to eat 2 sammies. So instead of just eating one, and letting all your friends get some awesome ham sammich action, you eat 2 and throw the other 8 away. After all, you didn't have enough to please everyone.

Oh I've heard of it. I've even seen them used (handguns) by hunters. Just because I've seen it used by some I don't presume to think that ALL hunters carry handguns.

I'll keep with the bear spray when I'm backpacking. It worked for me against a charging grizzly with cubs in Yellowstone and another grizzly crushing tents at our campsite in Glacier.

I for one found the 45 foot range and wide spray cone to to work quite well. I don't think I'd have been able to get a good vital shot in those few seconds I used the bear spray. You are right though that you have to be aware of the wind. Then again you have to aim a pistol and hit in the bears vitals so each system has it's drawbacks.

So, you seem a little slow, given that you get your news from Breitbart, so I'm going to try to lead you through this with baby steps--

-Ricin has essentially no use or benefit beyond killing people, so it is strictly illegal to have in any quantity.

-Cyanide is also very good for killing people, but it has some limited uses that go beyond just killing people, say, for mining, so some people can obtain it, with a lot of regulation and paper work.

-Nitrogen fertilizer can be used to make explosives, but it has even more widespread and practical use than cyanide, so it is even easier to obtain, but you still need to jump through some bureaucratic hoops to get it.

You following me so far?

Nearly everything this side of ricin has some sort of practical, beneficial use that does not directly involve killing people. Cars kill thousands a year (actually, more than that if we factor in carbon emissions), but benefit billions. Hammers, scissors, and fists kill a few hundred a year, but also benefit billions, and have more and better non-lethal uses than they do lethal ones.

Still with me?

Of all guns, rifles probably have the MOST practical, non-lethal-to-human uses. They're great for hunting and varmint control, but not really the best tools for killing lots of people quickly. Hmm, maybe that's why they were compared to hammers in your study?

Handguns, in particular, semi-automatics? What is their practical, non-lethal use? There is not a lot of evidence that they are used for so much self-defense that they should be freely available. Sometimes they can be useful in the hands of trained law-enforcement officials, though. So, it would make sense to treat handguns like cyanide; lethal, but limited useful application, so perhaps we should limit and regulate their use and ownership.

So, tell me, what are the practical uses for semi-automatic rifles with banana clips like the AR? They're not the best tool for game hunting, and there are other guns out there that are both better for hunting and not so good for mass shootings. They would also suck for self-defense; you're not going to keep one concealed in your jacket to pull out quickly when that mass shooter busts into your classroom or theater.

In other words, their ratio of lethal to practical use is more on the side of ricin than of hammers. Laws should reflect that.

Any questions?

You wrote "clips." That renders your entire argument null and void. You realize that right?

With your poor understanding of firearms, grammar, and carry laws that would mean any argument here is null and void. You realize that right?

Bullshit. I'm sorry to be so in your face about it but in my 20 years of hunting in MT, MN, UT, AK, WY, and CO I've NEVER heard of a hunter carrying a pistol to get off multiple rounds quickly in close quarters.

I've heard of bow hunters going after big game who carry a very large caliber single shot handgun or revolver as backup.

I've seen some hunters carrying a large caliber as backup or a smaller caliber (.38, .44) for wolves and such but very, very few.


Listen, short of carrying a very large caliber handgun (44 mag, 47-50, ect) your standard handgun calibers (9mm. .38, .40, .45, .357) aren't going to do dick to anything much larger than a whitetale deer. Even when using those previously mentioned large caliber hanguns you're not going to get off a lot of shots due to recoil; also most only hold 4 to 5 rounds.

On a side note I've also been backpacking in a lot of places with mountain lion and grizzly and I've never carried a hangun for protection. Why you ask? Bear spray is easier to use, aim, and carry.

I am going to have to call your bullshit.

I am going to have to call your bullshit. I have been living in Alaska for several years now and whenever I go hiking or hunting I carry a sidearm for bear and wolf protection. The wolves in this area are known to bait dogs out and attack them as well as attack humans. Also a reason that my dogs are always on a leash.

In response to your cyanide remark, do you happen to know where i can get some legally, I have several firearms but can never tell when i could use some cyanide also.

For goodness sakes, read what you just wrote. Calling you retarded would be an insult to retarded people.

Shouldn't you be buying P-mags for your AR?

I'm sure you're away that .223 and 5.56 aren't the same.

Just like I'm sure you know you can shoot .223 out of a 5.56 but not the other way around.

Still no reason for you to get your panties in a bunch.

I do not get my panties in a bunch. I rarely even wear underwear. However, there seem to be a lot of people out there actually getting their panties in a bunch and making some irrational online purchases.

Be prepared for the absolutely ridiculous...

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/...?itemId=160974811095

For a magazine that costs <$50! Stupid, frightened and panicked consumers.

I ordered 2 of these 30rnd mags from the Ruger website last week while they were briefly in stock and paid $111.90 including shipping....smh.

I'm pretty sure you meant "l couldn't care less", because if you could care less, then you would, right?

Also, I have a Remy 870 and you're right, I use it a lot. But you probably couldn't care less. See how that works?

Amber. you don't need an AR15. Buy a shotgun!

http://youtu.be/A0IVSGctQIg