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JoyTrip


Jan 6, 2013, 10:28 AM
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Calling all climbers of color
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If you're an African-American mountaineer with vertical ice climbing experience I have an opportunity to share. A casting agent is looking for black climbers (18 to 45) to appear in a national television commercial. Please reply to this post if you're interested or know someone who might be for details.

At the risk of starting another heated discussion in this forum on the issue of race and mountaineering I'll ask that you please first read my recent story in Alpinist Magazine: http://www.alpinist.com/doc/ALP40/40-wired
Thanks!


(This post was edited by JoyTrip on Jan 6, 2013, 10:58 AM)


jbone


Jan 6, 2013, 11:03 AM
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Re: [JoyTrip] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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Reverse-racism creates racism.


JoyTrip


Jan 6, 2013, 11:17 AM
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Re: [jbone] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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jbone, that kind of response was exactly what I had hoped to avoid. PLEASE take a moment to read my story in Alpinist. Direct marketing to a specific demographic is not racism reverse or otherwise. The media has very few positive depictions of African-Americans in mainstream advertising. This particular company is apparently trying to correct that. As a person of color and as a climber I would very much like to see more diversity when it comes to images of those involved in the sports I love. If films, television and magazines are to be believed there no blacks or hispanics involved in skiing or mountaineering. I can tell you from my personal experience that is not the case. To cry racism whenever we make a good faith effort to speak to a broader audience does nothing but stifle the discussion and inhibit progress.


jbone


Jan 6, 2013, 11:32 AM
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Re: [JoyTrip] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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I did read your article, and I think its "poor me" journalism. If you go to Mexico and watch tv you will see Hispanics. If you go to China and watch tv you will see Chinese. If you go to Africa you will see Africans. Why is it when you are in America and you watch tv you don't see Americans? Maybe you need more friends who are white?


JoyTrip


Jan 6, 2013, 11:56 AM
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Re: [jbone] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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I really didn't want to get into this kind of discussion but I suspected that it might happen. I suggest instead that I might be guilty of "poor us" journalism. Because in a nation whose wealth and social resources are disportionately distributed so clearly upon racial lines it's unfortunate for everyone. For those inlightened souls out there who claim not to "see color" they really should. America is a board pallat of many different races and ethnicities. So when I see a landscape in the media that is primarily white I don't see the America I know. I think we all suffer when we don't see color because in our modern times lack of racial diversity in America is a sign of weakness. Just ask the the Republican Party who suddenly came to realize how completely out of touch they have become by catering almost exclusively to the needs and the interests of a majority white consistuency. I believe that when it comes to outdoor recreation and the conservation movement we run the same risk. When it comes time for the new non-white majority to vote for wilderness preservation (that means climbing areas) after the year 2042 what's to stop them from electing to turn Yosemite and Joshua Tree into natural gas minning areas? If they are places they never go or even care about why on Earth would they fight to protect them? And please let's not make this personal. My friends are just that, neither white nor black, nothing more nothing less.


(This post was edited by JoyTrip on Jan 6, 2013, 12:03 PM)


jbone


Jan 6, 2013, 12:13 PM
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Re: [JoyTrip] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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JoyTrip wrote:
If you're a American-Caucasian mountaineer with vertical ice climbing experience I have an opportunity to share. A casting agent is looking for American-Caucasian climbers (18 to 45) to appear in a national television commercial. Please reply to this post if you're interested or know someone who might be for details.

At the risk of starting another heated discussion in this forum on the issue of race and mountaineering I'll ask that you please first read my recent story in Alpinist Magazine: http://www.alpinist.com/doc/ALP40/40-wired
Thanks!

See how nasty your own writing sounds when its tilted out of your favor?


notapplicable


Jan 6, 2013, 12:16 PM
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Re: [jbone] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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Off to SoapBox in 3...2...1...


theguy


Jan 6, 2013, 12:22 PM
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Re: [jbone] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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jbone wrote:
Why is it when you are in America and you watch tv you don't see Americans?

What TV are you watching? House (couldn't get an American actor good enough so had to hire an Englishman)? Masterpiece Theater?

When I watch TV I see Americans; as a Canadian I have some idea what it takes for non-Americans to get a work permit in America, so am not real surprised.

Or are you the kind of person who doesn't see an American when you look at the President? I mean, Hawaii is closer to China than America, come on! ;)


jbone


Jan 6, 2013, 12:26 PM
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Right now I'm watching the playoffs and I'm wondering where the fellows from India are? Quite a majority of African-Americans though..


JoyTrip


Jan 6, 2013, 12:35 PM
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Re: [jbone] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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I suppose I understand how you might feel that way, but seriously. If I had simply written "mountaineer with vertical ice climbing experience" with no reference to race who exactly do you think would have responded in this forum? EVERYBODY! If we're going to have a real discussion can we not be so naive? We can't pretend that low African-American participation in mountaineering isn't a real issue. There's no one to blame. It's simply a stastical fact. So there's no point in getting "nasty" about it. All I'm asking is to have a rational conversation on how we might encourage a growing percentage of the population to share our passion for this sport.


jbone


Jan 6, 2013, 12:45 PM
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Re: [JoyTrip] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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JoyTrip wrote:
We can't pretend that low African-American participation in mountaineering isn't a real issue. There's no one to blame. It's simply a stastical fact. So there's no point in getting "nasty" about it. All I'm asking is to have a rational conversation on how we might encourage a growing percentage of the population to share our passion for this sport.

The low percentage of African-American's participating in mountaineering is not an issue. To my knowledge there are no gyms or crags African-American's CANNOT use. African-American's have just as much right to climb anywhere any other race does, even Eskimo's.

I've personally made efforts to introduce African-American's to climbing but for some reason they end up on the football team instead. Something about more money in it. If only I could get in on that gig...


theguy


Jan 6, 2013, 12:54 PM
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Re: [jbone] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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jbone wrote:
Why is it when you are in America and you watch tv you don't see Americans?

jbone wrote:
Right now I'm watching the playoffs and I'm wondering where the fellows from India are? Quite a majority of African-Americans though..

Is it just me, or is there a contradiction here?

Or am I completely missing the point and your real complaint is with a lack of Native Americans (to whom you refer as "fellows from India"? You do know that while Columbus was searching for India, he didn't actually find it?) on TV?


(This post was edited by theguy on Jan 6, 2013, 1:24 PM)


PeteF


Jan 6, 2013, 1:25 PM
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Re: [JoyTrip] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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I don't want to wade into any race debate, in my experience anyone with a strong opinion rarely has it changed as a result, and normally more harm than good is done by well intentioned efforts to force change. Even the first "African-American" Everest submitter didn't want attention bought to the fact that they were African American, any more than the fact she was a woman, and maybe there's a message there?

According to your own figures James, the representation of non-caucasian park visitors and climbers is within 5% of the population representation. Not what I would consider a big "problem" but to each their own I guess.

I did want to comment however, as I believe this quote is completely false; "The image of the (white) climber makes sense because readers can readily draw on other images of climbers—George Leigh Mallory, Edmund Hillary, Reinhold Messner.... Other [nonwhite] narratives of adventure exist, but they are not readily available"

In fact the image below is one of the most famous images in mountaineering, and is of Tenzing Norgay who is, I can assure you, very much "non-white"




theguy


Jan 6, 2013, 1:55 PM
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Re: [PeteF] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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PeteF wrote:
normally more harm than good is done by well intentioned efforts to force change

Would be interested in seeing your source for this statistic, or if based on personal experience (not entirely clear from your sentence construction), the anecdotal evidence.

Even if it were true, the question would then be whether efforts to force change in the area of racial equality are within the range of normal cases, or whether this is an area where change can bring more good than harm, as folks like Rosa Parks, Desmond Tutu, and Martin Luther King believed.

PeteF wrote:
anyone with a strong opinion rarely has it changed as a result

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.”
- Margaret Mead


Partner oldsalt


Jan 6, 2013, 2:07 PM
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Re: [JoyTrip] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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JoyTrip wrote:
If you're an African-American mountaineer with vertical ice climbing experience I have an opportunity to share. A casting agent is looking for black climbers (18 to 45) to appear in a national television commercial. Please reply to this post if you're interested or know someone who might be for details....

I will pass your request on to my good friend, Juan. He organized the climbing trip that I photographed at Sandrock (AL) a couple of years ago. The link below is to some pictures of the trip on Facebook. None of us have any ice experience that I know of, but he is a serious athlete (MMA experience and a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu master). His daughter is also a climber, when she is not teaching martial arts.

Here are links to their Facebook pages:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pandemic-Brazilian-Jiu-Jitsu-and-MMA-Academy/118984781450068

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.102360516443421.5164.100000084203643&type=3


jbone


Jan 6, 2013, 2:09 PM
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Re: [theguy] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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People like Hitler "Force" change.

I wouldn't say MLK "Forced" anything, rather he lobbied for equality based on reason.

Your in Germany eh? Would have figured this would be pretty clear in your neck of the woods.


theguy


Jan 6, 2013, 2:28 PM
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Re: [jbone] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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jbone wrote:
People like Hitler "Force" change.

I wouldn't say MLK "Forced" anything, rather he lobbied for equality based on reason.

Your in Germany eh? Would have figured this would be pretty clear in your neck of the woods.

Wow. Just wow...


bearbreeder


Jan 6, 2013, 2:44 PM
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Re: [jbone] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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SWEET !!! ... nazi references, and not just grammar nazis either Wink

god i luuuuuuuuuv RC ... its sooo much fun on rainy dayz Tongue


JoyTrip


Jan 6, 2013, 2:48 PM
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Re: [jbone] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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Low African-American participation in mountaineering isn't an issue because they can't participate, it's an issue because they don't pariticipate. Please understand that I have never asserted that there are people out there preventing people of color from climbing. As Sophie Danenberg says in my story African-American's self-select themselves out of spending time in nature. My question is why? Personally I have simply not gone certain places because I didn't want to be the only black person there. I don't know if you can imagine what that feels like but it is a powerful motivator that prevents people from doing many things they have every right to. But that's on me. I don't blame anyone for my own apprehension. What I would like to see though is more people of color get past any concerns they might have about the outdoors and spend more time in nature


shockabuku


Jan 6, 2013, 2:55 PM
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Re: [theguy] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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theguy wrote:
...Hawaii is closer to China than America, come on! ;)

Just out of curiosity, what map did you get that data from?


Partner happiegrrrl


Jan 6, 2013, 3:10 PM
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Re: [shockabuku] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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WTF is the matter with this JBone nut?

Does he complain about the photoshoppery used in virtually EVERY major advertisement showing a human being, that it doesn't accurately portray the human form accurately?

Does it peeve him that even the dumbest, crudest men on tv shows seem to be able to have model-like wives and girlfriends?

The person posts a fucking casting call, fer god's sake, and he shits on the thread. Nothing better to do with his time?

Earth the JBone - casting calls are often very specific as to the people and other aspects of the shoot.


jbone


Jan 6, 2013, 3:12 PM
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Re: [JoyTrip] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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Sounds like a cultural issue.

You can go out and make a commercial with a African-American tooling his way up some glacier but who are you making it for really? You already admit African-Americans are disinterested in outdoor pursuits in general so what would motivate them to watch a commercial involving outdoor pursuits they aren't interested in? Instead your making an ice climbing commercial where the people who do participate in the activity aren't represented at all.

To reflect on your statement regarding future government needing African-American's to support Federal land programs that preserve the nature of our pursuits. Its the White guys in government that want to dig up the land, not the Democrats. By your logic we need more white republicans to be associated with climbing to keep it from being taken away from us by our governments decisions later on down the road.

Not by any means do I subscribe to this train of thought, the government will take everything eventually no matter what we do.


jbone


Jan 6, 2013, 3:16 PM
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Re: [happiegrrrl] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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Your in the dark if you think I'm the only one who thinks this way.


ObviousTroll


Jan 6, 2013, 4:13 PM
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Re: [jbone] Calling all climbers of color [In reply to]
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jbone wrote:
Your in the dark if you think I'm the only one who thinks this way.


I'll throw Jbone a bone. He DEFINITELY is NOT the only one thinking this way. And I would highly suspect that the majority of people that do think this way don't care enough to back him up so they won't post up.


ObviousTroll


Jan 6, 2013, 4:17 PM
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Also, what is up with the thread being titled "calling all climbers of color" and then asking specifically for black climbers? I'm not saying anything by this, except that it's goofy and odd.

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