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18 Dead, Potrero Chico
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matterunomama


Jan 29, 2013, 4:42 PM
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18 Dead, Potrero Chico
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http://rockice.amgbusiness.com/...paign=MP%2BFeed-News

If you go for the world class climbing, take great care. Consider partying in the campground, as it seems the local violence is even in Hidalgo town


sonso45


Jan 29, 2013, 4:47 PM
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Re: [matterunomama] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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I think you should delete this post. R&I is wrong. Homero's is not involved. The Potrero is a backdrop to the incident for us. This post serves to stir up fear and rumors.

A simple google search of Kombo Kolombia murder will show you where it happened.


matterunomama


Jan 29, 2013, 5:55 PM
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Re: [sonso45] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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Sorry, it does not sY Homeros, I was confusing it with another report.
Nevertheless, the advice to be careful stands.
I have wanted to return to EPC since I first went several years ago, but cancelled my family trip there this xmas because of trouble in the area. Drug people kill each other, but tourists can get caught in the crossfire, robbed for money, etc.
I truly hope that the drug activity will reduce, The park, the town, and all the good people there will regain foreign currency, murders of loved ones will cease, and people like me will feel comfortable climbing their wonderful crags.


sonso45


Jan 29, 2013, 6:01 PM
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Re: [matterunomama] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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Violence has occurred in Hidalgo before this horrible event. A shoot out happened in town when my friend Gail and Mitch were there a couple of years ago. Several cartel members and the town dentist were slain.

The northern portion of Mexico seems particularly dangerous. I just returned from two weeks in Taxco, Mexico (west of Mexico City) and had an absolutely fun safe time.


(This post was edited by sonso45 on Jan 29, 2013, 6:01 PM)


potreroed


Jan 29, 2013, 8:08 PM
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Re: [matterunomama] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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This incident didn't affect the climbers at all. Nobody is panicking and fleeing. Everything is back to normal. We've been enjoying a good season with lots of climbers driving and flying down.


jt512


Jan 29, 2013, 9:31 PM
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Re: [potreroed] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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If the OP is incapable of editing the title of his or her thread, then, for once, perhaps a moderator could step in and do something useful.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Jan 29, 2013, 9:33 PM)


curt


Jan 29, 2013, 9:37 PM
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Re: [jt512] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
If the OP is incapable of editing the title of his or her thread, then, for once, perhaps a moderator could step in and do something useful.

Jay

It's nice to see that the star ratings are still rigged too. pfffft.

Curt


jomagam


Jan 29, 2013, 11:36 PM
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Re: [sonso45] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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sonso45 wrote:
I think you should delete this post. R&I is wrong. Homero's is not involved. The Potrero is a backdrop to the incident for us. This post serves to stir up fear and rumors.

A simple google search of Kombo Kolombia murder will show you where it happened.

Why exactly is R&I wrong ? Google Maps shows that the bodies were found 8 miles from EPC.


sonso45


Jan 30, 2013, 5:42 AM
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Re: [jomagam] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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R&I changed their statement. Originally they posted false information. I just looked at their current web post and it is not the same one as yesterday. Thanks R&I!


(This post was edited by sonso45 on Jan 30, 2013, 5:46 AM)


Partner camhead


Jan 30, 2013, 5:44 AM
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Re: [jomagam] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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jomagam wrote:
sonso45 wrote:
I think you should delete this post. R&I is wrong. Homero's is not involved. The Potrero is a backdrop to the incident for us. This post serves to stir up fear and rumors.

A simple google search of Kombo Kolombia murder will show you where it happened.

Why exactly is R&I wrong ? Google Maps shows that the bodies were found 8 miles from EPC.

R&I's article originally stated that the bodies had been dumped into a well "near Homero's," a climbers' campground. They also originally said that the band had been playing a gig within earshot of Potrero campgrounds, which as far as I can tell was not true. Also, the headline "climbers flee Potrero" seems a bit sensationalist, and according to Ed (who, granted, is not an unbiased reference), is also not really true.

Also, the two best articles on this both make it clear that the band was playing, and kidnapped, in a town called Sabinas Hidalgo, which is NOT the same "Hidalgo" as the town near Potrero. The two towns are around 50 miles apart.


http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...nd-tortured-and.html

http://americanlivewire.com/...s-of-kombo-kolombia/


marc801


Jan 30, 2013, 7:06 AM
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Re: [camhead] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
Also, the two best articles on this both make it clear that the band was playing, and kidnapped, in a town called Sabinas Hidalgo, which is NOT the same "Hidalgo" as the town near Potrero. The two towns are around 50 miles apart.


http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...nd-tortured-and.html

http://americanlivewire.com/...s-of-kombo-kolombia/

Yet in that first link (and other articles) it clearly states the bodies were found near the town of Mina, which is indeed very close to the Hidalgo that is outside the EPC. Perhaps that is the source of some of the confusion.


newrivermike


Jan 30, 2013, 8:43 AM
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Re: [potreroed] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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Hey Ed, first off, I can't tell you how sorry I am that this happened. Especially so close to your home. I've visited many times and love the Potrero. I know this will have a negative impact on the local businesses as well as 'the scene' down there. It's incredibly unfortunate.

My question: Is La Carreta the bar on the road that leads over to Rancho Cerro Gordo? That's how I remember it. In which case, the original article was correct in saying that the bar where they were kidnapped was within earshot of the campgrounds. There is so much misinformation about the story. Seems like you're the one able to clarify a bit. Other folks on this thread are saying the kidnapping occurred no where near the Potrero, in a different town. Where's La Carreta?


potreroed


Jan 30, 2013, 9:14 AM
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Re: [newrivermike] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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Yes, you are correct. La Carreta is the warehouse-like building next to Homero's on the way to Cerro Gordo.

Apparently, the party was to have taken place elsewhere but the venue was changed at the last minute. Again, the incident did not affect the climbers in any way, other than keeping them awake due to the noise of the party.

It will be interesting to eventually learn what these band members did to piss those guys off so badly.


Gmburns2000


Jan 30, 2013, 9:34 AM
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potreroed wrote:
Yes, you are correct. La Carreta is the warehouse-like building next to Homero's on the way to Cerro Gordo.

Apparently, the party was to have taken place elsewhere but the venue was changed at the last minute. Again, the incident did not affect the climbers in any way, other than keeping them awake due to the noise of the party.

It will be interesting to eventually learn what these band members did to piss those guys off so badly.

camhead wrote:
jomagam wrote:
sonso45 wrote:
I think you should delete this post. R&I is wrong. Homero's is not involved. The Potrero is a backdrop to the incident for us. This post serves to stir up fear and rumors.

A simple google search of Kombo Kolombia murder will show you where it happened.

Why exactly is R&I wrong ? Google Maps shows that the bodies were found 8 miles from EPC.

R&I's article originally stated that the bodies had been dumped into a well "near Homero's," a climbers' campground. They also originally said that the band had been playing a gig within earshot of Potrero campgrounds, which as far as I can tell was not true. Also, the headline "climbers flee Potrero" seems a bit sensationalist, and according to Ed (who, granted, is not an unbiased reference), is also not really true.

Also, the two best articles on this both make it clear that the band was playing, and kidnapped, in a town called Sabinas Hidalgo, which is NOT the same "Hidalgo" as the town near Potrero. The two towns are around 50 miles apart.


http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...nd-tortured-and.html

http://americanlivewire.com/...s-of-kombo-kolombia/


ahhh...the joys of reporting something first over getting it right. excellent journalism at its best.


Partner robdotcalm


Jan 30, 2013, 10:12 AM
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Re: [jt512] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
If the OP is incapable of editing the title of his or her thread, then, for once, perhaps a moderator could step in and do something useful.

Jay

Yup, let's shoot the messenger.

r.c


gblauer
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Jan 30, 2013, 10:14 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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The facts seem to be:

1) The band was playing across from Homero's at Cerreta.
2) The bodies were dumped in Mina a mere 10 Kilometers away from Hidalgo.

Too close for comfort if you ask me. I was there last year when the army chased some bad guys off the highway into HIdalgo and the ensuing gun fight left 6 or 7 people dead (including the town dentist, innocent bystander).

I am so saddened by all of this. I love EPC and I have gone every year for the last 11 years. It's not likely that I will be going in 2013. I adore the climbing and the scene, but, it's just not worth the risk at this point in my life.


Partner robdotcalm


Jan 30, 2013, 10:17 AM
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Re: [potreroed] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
Again, the incident did not affect the climbers in any way, other than keeping them awake due to the noise of the party.

It will be interesting to eventually learn what these band members did to piss those guys off so badly.

Perhaps living in Mexico for so long inures one to massacres.

Rob.calm


mojomonkey


Jan 30, 2013, 1:21 PM
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potreroed wrote:
This incident didn't affect the climbers at all. Nobody is panicking and fleeing. Everything is back to normal. We've been enjoying a good season with lots of climbers driving and flying down.

So the initial reporting that this happened at the bar right at the potrero seems to be right? Which I'd assume you would know, being there?

Yikes man, you seem like the opposite of chicken little. The fact that ~20 people were kidnapped and murdered right by where I'm camping would have a bit of an impact on me...


mojomonkey


Jan 30, 2013, 2:44 PM
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Found this video showing the bar at the Potrero with police tape and authorities investigating, so I think the Rock and Ice article does have it right.


math


Jan 30, 2013, 11:20 PM
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Hi Ed, how do you know about the scheduling change? More boots-on-the-ground (or 5.10s or la sportiva's et al.. :) info would be great. I spose a good many people want to know why the band was targetted - if only so we can all rule ourselves out being members of 'they were just random innocent targets'. :/ Condolences to the families.

Mainstream press has picked this up, im sure it's going to be a fustercluck of bad and conflicting info.

Im to be down there climbing in March, got friends who are probably still going in a week's time... see what the vibe is in the meantime... :/


sonso45


Jan 31, 2013, 8:30 AM
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Re: [robdotcalm] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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robdotcalm wrote:
potreroed wrote:
Again, the incident did not affect the climbers in any way, other than keeping them awake due to the noise of the party.

It will be interesting to eventually learn what these band members did to piss those guys off so badly.

Perhaps living in Mexico for so long inures one to massacres.

Rob.calm

No, living in the USA inures one to massacres. Remember Sandy Hook?

As someone said, we have to wait to find out the facts. Initial reports at confusing scenes are usually muddled. R&I has changed their initial incorrect statement and I am sure we will know a lot more once the investigation is complete.


USnavy


Jan 31, 2013, 11:55 PM
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sonso45 wrote:
R&I changed their statement. Originally they posted false information.
Big surprise there.


mojomonkey


Feb 2, 2013, 11:29 AM
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potreroed wrote:
It will be interesting to eventually learn what these band members did to piss those guys off so badly.

This line has been bouncing around in my head. I didn't initially respond because I may have been reading it in a way you didn't intend, but it sounds like blaming the victims / excusing the cartel. It wasn't as prevalent in this short thread, but a lot of the discussions online had tones of "they must have pissed off a cartel" - as if that somehow made their kidnap and murder reasonable.

It feels like a climbing accident report where people are trying to convince themselves that it couldn't happen to them, but maybe it truly was an accident with no easy target to lay the blame on. It is scary to read about an accident that could happen to you when you can't find something to convince yourself you would have fared better.

Maybe the band was playing for a cartel, and that angered a rival. They should have refused the gig to stay out of it. Except, I wonder how the slight of turning down the asking cartel would have played out...

It is a tragic situation. Blaming the murdered or acting like an uninvolved person (climber or otherwise) couldn't have been caught up in it or that it couldn't happen again seems like hiding from reality.


iknowfear


Feb 2, 2013, 12:03 PM
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mojomonkey wrote:
potreroed wrote:
It will be interesting to eventually learn what these band members did to piss those guys off so badly.

This line has been bouncing around in my head. I didn't initially respond because I may have been reading it in a way you didn't intend, but it sounds like blaming the victims / excusing the cartel. It wasn't as prevalent in this short thread, but a lot of the discussions online had tones of "they must have pissed off a cartel" - as if that somehow made their kidnap and murder reasonable.

It feels like a climbing accident report where people are trying to convince themselves that it couldn't happen to them, but maybe it truly was an accident with no easy target to lay the blame on. It is scary to read about an accident that could happen to you when you can't find something to convince yourself you would have fared better.

Maybe the band was playing for a cartel, and that angered a rival. They should have refused the gig to stay out of it. Except, I wonder how the slight of turning down the asking cartel would have played out...

It is a tragic situation. Blaming the murdered or acting like an uninvolved person (climber or otherwise) couldn't have been caught up in it or that it couldn't happen again seems like hiding from reality.

+ 1.


sonso45


Feb 5, 2013, 5:30 PM
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R&I has a great report on the terrible situation. This time they hit the nail on the head. It is dangerous and you have to make up your own mind. What risk are you willing to take to climb in Potrero.

http://www.rockandice.com/...potrero-chico-mexico

It is up to the individual to decide. Many of my friends south and north of the border will not go there.


(This post was edited by sonso45 on Feb 5, 2013, 5:31 PM)


Gmburns2000


Feb 6, 2013, 2:28 AM
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sonso45 wrote:
R&I has a great report on the terrible situation. This time they hit the nail on the head. It is dangerous and you have to make up your own mind. What risk are you willing to take to climb in Potrero.

http://www.rockandice.com/...potrero-chico-mexico

It is up to the individual to decide. Many of my friends south and north of the border will not go there.

That's a pretty damning report. This seems to be a pretty good indicator, too:

R&I Jeff Jackson wrote:
In response to the violence, the U.S. Consulate General in Monterrey has issued a traveler's advisory that warns against travel in Nuevo Leon. In addition, the U.S. consulate is "a partially unaccompanied post" with no dependents of government officials allowed. All officials are on a curfew that requires them to remain in the consulate neighborhood between midnight and 6 a.m.


sonso45


Feb 11, 2013, 8:55 AM
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The group, Kombo Kolombia played in territory once controlled by Zetas and they would occasionally send shout outs to the CDG (Gulf Cartel) members that had been caught (making fun of them). The band may have been targeted because of that.

This is still under investigation and they do have a person that they are looking for, a Zeta that organized the party.

This entire episode is a horrible blip in the criminal insurgency Mexico is suffering under.


(This post was edited by sonso45 on Feb 11, 2013, 8:56 AM)


Gmburns2000


Feb 11, 2013, 9:48 AM
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sonso45 wrote:
The group, Kombo Kolombia played in territory once controlled by Zetas and they would occasionally send shout outs to the CDG (Gulf Cartel) members that had been caught (making fun of them). The band may have been targeted because of that.

This is still under investigation and they do have a person that they are looking for, a Zeta that organized the party.

This entire episode is a horrible blip in the criminal insurgency Mexico is suffering under.

a set-up maybe? damn


sonso45


Feb 11, 2013, 10:02 AM
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It is a sad state of affairs. There are dangerous and not as dangerous areas of Mexico. A great read about the recent history of this "criminal insurgency" is El Narco by Ioan Grillo. A great read on the situation by someone that has been there a while.

Apparently the band was caught up between the Gulf Cartel and the Zetas. From Borderland Beat: "In the first instances, the hypothesis was that Kombo Kolombia had been "finished off" by leaders of the Gulf Cartel (CDG) because of its close relationship with rival gangs.

But the most recent investigations are now pointing in a different direction. Versions collected by the authority reported that Los Zetas have reprimanded musicians for playing in bars and clubs operated by the CDG in the metropolitan area. It is what they saw as a betrayal and who paid with their life. Jose Isidro Cruz Villarreal, "El Pichilo" is thought to have been in charge of recruiting Kombo Kolombia for the performance in the municipality of Hidalgo, and would been the leader who led the convoy of gunmen that kidnapped the band."


(This post was edited by sonso45 on Feb 11, 2013, 11:25 AM)


surfstar


Feb 11, 2013, 10:33 AM
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YER GONNA...










...get beheaded?


mikewhip


Feb 12, 2013, 6:44 AM
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So, I'm supposed to be there next week for 2 weeks and I'm on the fence. I've been there twice before (2001 and 2008) and had no problem. What's the police presence there and how reliable are they to "protect and serve" the climbers and locals? have they stepped up their visibility?

thanks
mike


Partner camhead


Feb 12, 2013, 7:00 AM
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mikewhip wrote:
So, I'm supposed to be there next week for 2 weeks and I'm on the fence. I've been there twice before (2001 and 2008) and had no problem. What's the police presence there and how reliable are they to "protect and serve" the climbers and locals? have they stepped up their visibility?

thanks
mike

I've not been to Potrero for a few years, but I went there for most winters between 2002-2007, and have traveled a fair bit in Mexico beyond that, too. I would not trust the police to "protect and serve," too much. But seriously, just do regular climber stuff, camp at a campground, only go to restaurants and bars with lots of other climbers, and you should be fine. Unless the Zetas happen to do a random drive-by.


mikewhip


Feb 12, 2013, 7:09 AM
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Re: [camhead] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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Thanks CamHead. I do appreciate the comment. It helps indeed.


Partner macherry


Feb 12, 2013, 7:33 AM
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Re: [mikewhip] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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mikewhip wrote:
So, I'm supposed to be there next week for 2 weeks and I'm on the fence. I've been there twice before (2001 and 2008) and had no problem. What's the police presence there and how reliable are they to "protect and serve" the climbers and locals? have they stepped up their visibility?

thanks
mike

i have friends currently climbing in potrero. they say there is an increased police presence, but other than that things are usual. they are spending the winter there and there's been no other issues. the climbing is great and just yesterday they posted up pics on fb of them visiting a local rodeo.


mikewhip


Feb 12, 2013, 7:39 AM
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Re: [macherry] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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sounds good! thank You for this updated info. Keep it coming if you hear any more.


stephamontreal


Feb 12, 2013, 9:41 PM
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Re: [mikewhip] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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Hey Mike,
We are heading there this Friday for 2 weeks as well. We hesitated a lots and decided to go. I am asking myself the same questions...I guess I might see you there. This will be my first time so I cant really help with info but I had a friend there when the incident happened, he said it felt sketchy for a few days but came back to normal after.....
Are you staying at La posada?


jack.amaus86


Feb 13, 2013, 6:39 AM
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Re: [stephamontreal] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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Hey Mike and everyone i had a solo trip planned for a month on the 20th. I also hesitated a lot about going but i think im going to go for it. I was most worried about finding people to climb with but it sounds like at least a few people will be there. I hope to see you all down there


(This post was edited by jack.amaus86 on Feb 13, 2013, 6:41 AM)


mikewhip


Feb 13, 2013, 7:25 AM
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Re: [jack.amaus86] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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Hi there Steph...
I'm getting more psyched on this trip. I've been there twice and Live the climbing and the locals as well. My buddy and I are staying at La Posada. We get in on the morning of the 20th. I'm Mike and my partners name is Logan. Please look for me/us. Would love to chat, give beta over beers and meals. I'm bald 5'7 for reference and climb in Jeans. See you soon man!


mikewhip


Feb 13, 2013, 7:29 AM
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Re: [jack.amaus86] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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Crap! Sorry I meant Jack not Steph Unsure


stephamontreal


Feb 13, 2013, 12:04 PM
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Re: [mikewhip] 18 Dead, Potrero Chico [In reply to]
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well well I will be happy to meet all of you there anyways, even if this message wasnt dedicated to me ;)


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