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Are men and women equal in the outdoors?
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jordazz


Feb 6, 2013, 4:33 AM
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Are men and women equal in the outdoors?
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Hey I'm studying Outdoor Education at LJMU and I'm writing a research project on gender equality in sport and outdoor adventurous activities. I'd really value your opinion and appreciate if you could take 2 minutes to fill out this confidential online surey
Most of the questions are simple Yes/ No and you only have to answer what you feel comfortable with. I apprichiate that not everybody has the time to do this but I would be extremely grateful to anybody who can help me out.
I believe I have witnessed cases of gender discrimination in the field and would like to see if others have such experiences.
Please note, it is not just women who may feel have been subjected to sexism, again I believe I have been treated unfairly for being a male.
Thank you so much for your time! If anybody would like a copy of the findings or the project upon finishing I would be happy to send anybody a copy around April times.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/RQLJVZX


jbone


Feb 6, 2013, 7:32 AM
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Much like ratings themselves equality is subjective to the rock. The rock doesn't care if you are young or old, male or female.

Magazines on the other hand........


dynosore


Feb 6, 2013, 10:10 AM
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Cute girls can always get a belay/spot, whereas I have to practically beg for one, being an ugly type dude.


majid_sabet


Feb 6, 2013, 10:56 AM
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interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


lena_chita
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Feb 6, 2013, 11:28 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.


notapplicable


Feb 6, 2013, 1:04 PM
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majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Shit. That may have been true at some point. I don't know. But not anymore. Not in the era of the Metro-Man.


olderic


Feb 6, 2013, 1:33 PM
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lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.

I was wondering how long it would take for the LC knee jerk response to appear. A little over 30 minutes - she's still got it.


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Feb 6, 2013, 3:12 PM
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Why would you call that a knee-jerk response?

It looks tome to be an accurate assessment of Magid's post. Or is it that you feel women are supposed to be too stupid to understand the nuances of hyperbole?


Partner macherry


Feb 6, 2013, 4:46 PM
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olderic wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.

I was wondering how long it would take for the LC knee jerk response to appear. A little over 30 minutes - she's still got it.

i don't find this humorous either


olderic


Feb 6, 2013, 5:41 PM
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macherry wrote:
olderic wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.

I was wondering how long it would take for the LC knee jerk response to appear. A little over 30 minutes - she's still got it.

i don't find this humorous either

That's not my point - no one - well very few - will argue that the original comment was appropriate - certainly not PC in this day and age. My point is that LC seems to be constantly lurking - lord knows how she has the time - and immediately dives in with an extremely predictable response. One might initially think that she is some sort of heroine fighting for truth justice and all that jazz. But to me she seems so happy to apply her stereotypical buckets (ironically something she complains about) without actually putting any thought into it that at best she comes across as a sort of Don Quixote and more likely the boy who cried wolf Her values and believes are worthy but the way she goes about defending them is silly. And the time she spends doing it in a place like this makes me seriously wonder.


granite_grrl


Feb 6, 2013, 5:48 PM
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olderic wrote:
macherry wrote:
olderic wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.

I was wondering how long it would take for the LC knee jerk response to appear. A little over 30 minutes - she's still got it.

i don't find this humorous either

That's not my point - no one - well very few - will argue that the original comment was appropriate - certainly not PC in this day and age. My point is that LC seems to be constantly lurking - lord knows how she has the time - and immediately dives in with an extremely predictable response. One might initially think that she is some sort of heroine fighting for truth justice and all that jazz. But to me she seems so happy to apply her stereotypical buckets (ironically something she complains about) without actually putting any thought into it that at best she comes across as a sort of Don Quixote and more likely the boy who cried wolf Her values and believes are worthy but the way she goes about defending them is silly. And the time she spends doing it in a place like this makes me seriously wonder.

Wow.


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Feb 6, 2013, 6:00 PM
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granite_grrl wrote:
olderic wrote:
macherry wrote:
olderic wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.

I was wondering how long it would take for the LC knee jerk response to appear. A little over 30 minutes - she's still got it.

i don't find this humorous either

That's not my point - no one - well very few - will argue that the original comment was appropriate - certainly not PC in this day and age. My point is that LC seems to be constantly lurking - lord knows how she has the time - and immediately dives in with an extremely predictable response. One might initially think that she is some sort of heroine fighting for truth justice and all that jazz. But to me she seems so happy to apply her stereotypical buckets (ironically something she complains about) without actually putting any thought into it that at best she comes across as a sort of Don Quixote and more likely the boy who cried wolf Her values and believes are worthy but the way she goes about defending them is silly. And the time she spends doing it in a place like this makes me seriously wonder.

Wow.

wow+1

makes me wonder too

stalker much!?!?


granite_grrl


Feb 6, 2013, 6:07 PM
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macherry wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
olderic wrote:
macherry wrote:
olderic wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.

I was wondering how long it would take for the LC knee jerk response to appear. A little over 30 minutes - she's still got it.

i don't find this humorous either

That's not my point - no one - well very few - will argue that the original comment was appropriate - certainly not PC in this day and age. My point is that LC seems to be constantly lurking - lord knows how she has the time - and immediately dives in with an extremely predictable response. One might initially think that she is some sort of heroine fighting for truth justice and all that jazz. But to me she seems so happy to apply her stereotypical buckets (ironically something she complains about) without actually putting any thought into it that at best she comes across as a sort of Don Quixote and more likely the boy who cried wolf Her values and believes are worthy but the way she goes about defending them is silly. And the time she spends doing it in a place like this makes me seriously wonder.

Wow.

wow+1

makes me wonder too

stalker much!?!?

And Lena has less than a third of the post count of either of us!


Partner macherry


Feb 6, 2013, 6:16 PM
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granite_grrl wrote:
macherry wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
olderic wrote:
macherry wrote:
olderic wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.

I was wondering how long it would take for the LC knee jerk response to appear. A little over 30 minutes - she's still got it.

i don't find this humorous either

That's not my point - no one - well very few - will argue that the original comment was appropriate - certainly not PC in this day and age. My point is that LC seems to be constantly lurking - lord knows how she has the time - and immediately dives in with an extremely predictable response. One might initially think that she is some sort of heroine fighting for truth justice and all that jazz. But to me she seems so happy to apply her stereotypical buckets (ironically something she complains about) without actually putting any thought into it that at best she comes across as a sort of Don Quixote and more likely the boy who cried wolf Her values and believes are worthy but the way she goes about defending them is silly. And the time she spends doing it in a place like this makes me seriously wonder.

Wow.

wow+1

makes me wonder too

stalker much!?!?

And Lena has less than a third of the post count of either of us!

i know


drivel


Feb 6, 2013, 6:39 PM
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olderic wrote:
macherry wrote:
olderic wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.

I was wondering how long it would take for the LC knee jerk response to appear. A little over 30 minutes - she's still got it.

i don't find this humorous either

That's not my point - no one - well very few - will argue that the original comment was appropriate - certainly not PC in this day and age. My point is that LC seems to be constantly lurking - lord knows how she has the time - and immediately dives in with an extremely predictable response. One might initially think that she is some sort of heroine fighting for truth justice and all that jazz. But to me she seems so happy to apply her stereotypical buckets (ironically something she complains about) without actually putting any thought into it that at best she comes across as a sort of Don Quixote and more likely the boy who cried wolf Her values and believes are worthy but the way she goes about defending them is silly. And the time she spends doing it in a place like this makes me seriously wonder.

are we allowed to tell people to just go fuck themselves out here, in the bright daylight of not-scummunity?


camhead


Feb 6, 2013, 6:42 PM
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drivel wrote:
olderic wrote:
macherry wrote:
olderic wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.

I was wondering how long it would take for the LC knee jerk response to appear. A little over 30 minutes - she's still got it.

i don't find this humorous either

That's not my point - no one - well very few - will argue that the original comment was appropriate - certainly not PC in this day and age. My point is that LC seems to be constantly lurking - lord knows how she has the time - and immediately dives in with an extremely predictable response. One might initially think that she is some sort of heroine fighting for truth justice and all that jazz. But to me she seems so happy to apply her stereotypical buckets (ironically something she complains about) without actually putting any thought into it that at best she comes across as a sort of Don Quixote and more likely the boy who cried wolf Her values and believes are worthy but the way she goes about defending them is silly. And the time she spends doing it in a place like this makes me seriously wonder.

are we allowed to tell people to just go fuck themselves out here, in the bright daylight of not-scummunity?

NOW we know who has been one staring teh Lena Chita!!!!!11

Sekrit and personul informashunz!


notapplicable


Feb 6, 2013, 6:57 PM
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drivel wrote:
olderic wrote:
macherry wrote:
olderic wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.

I was wondering how long it would take for the LC knee jerk response to appear. A little over 30 minutes - she's still got it.

i don't find this humorous either

That's not my point - no one - well very few - will argue that the original comment was appropriate - certainly not PC in this day and age. My point is that LC seems to be constantly lurking - lord knows how she has the time - and immediately dives in with an extremely predictable response. One might initially think that she is some sort of heroine fighting for truth justice and all that jazz. But to me she seems so happy to apply her stereotypical buckets (ironically something she complains about) without actually putting any thought into it that at best she comes across as a sort of Don Quixote and more likely the boy who cried wolf Her values and believes are worthy but the way she goes about defending them is silly. And the time she spends doing it in a place like this makes me seriously wonder.

are we allowed to tell people to just go fuck themselves out here, in the bright daylight of not-scummunity?

Yes please


Partner macherry


Feb 6, 2013, 7:00 PM
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drivel wrote:
olderic wrote:
macherry wrote:
olderic wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.

I was wondering how long it would take for the LC knee jerk response to appear. A little over 30 minutes - she's still got it.

i don't find this humorous either

That's not my point - no one - well very few - will argue that the original comment was appropriate - certainly not PC in this day and age. My point is that LC seems to be constantly lurking - lord knows how she has the time - and immediately dives in with an extremely predictable response. One might initially think that she is some sort of heroine fighting for truth justice and all that jazz. But to me she seems so happy to apply her stereotypical buckets (ironically something she complains about) without actually putting any thought into it that at best she comes across as a sort of Don Quixote and more likely the boy who cried wolf Her values and believes are worthy but the way she goes about defending them is silly. And the time she spends doing it in a place like this makes me seriously wonder.

are we allowed to tell people to just go fuck themselves out here, in the bright daylight of not-scummunity?

survey says,







yes!!


olderic


Feb 6, 2013, 7:46 PM
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macherry wrote:
drivel wrote:
olderic wrote:
macherry wrote:
olderic wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.

I was wondering how long it would take for the LC knee jerk response to appear. A little over 30 minutes - she's still got it.

i don't find this humorous either

That's not my point - no one - well very few - will argue that the original comment was appropriate - certainly not PC in this day and age. My point is that LC seems to be constantly lurking - lord knows how she has the time - and immediately dives in with an extremely predictable response. One might initially think that she is some sort of heroine fighting for truth justice and all that jazz. But to me she seems so happy to apply her stereotypical buckets (ironically something she complains about) without actually putting any thought into it that at best she comes across as a sort of Don Quixote and more likely the boy who cried wolf Her values and believes are worthy but the way she goes about defending them is silly. And the time she spends doing it in a place like this makes me seriously wonder.

are we allowed to tell people to just go fuck themselves out here, in the bright daylight of not-scummunity?

survey says,







yes!!

Looks like I have found knee jerk central - does anyone want to take a stab at actually responding to a point - or are you all content to continue with your witty (self perceived anyway) one liners? FYI I would have no idea how to +/- anyone - nor would I care to - its all just opinion - but I guess subtitles are lost on this bunch, Stalking - I think not - although I think Camhead's actions of leaving gear over night on Kansas City and then publicly whining about the results was one of the biggest dufus moves I have heard of.


notapplicable


Feb 6, 2013, 8:06 PM
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olderic wrote:
macherry wrote:
drivel wrote:
olderic wrote:
macherry wrote:
olderic wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.

I was wondering how long it would take for the LC knee jerk response to appear. A little over 30 minutes - she's still got it.

i don't find this humorous either

That's not my point - no one - well very few - will argue that the original comment was appropriate - certainly not PC in this day and age. My point is that LC seems to be constantly lurking - lord knows how she has the time - and immediately dives in with an extremely predictable response. One might initially think that she is some sort of heroine fighting for truth justice and all that jazz. But to me she seems so happy to apply her stereotypical buckets (ironically something she complains about) without actually putting any thought into it that at best she comes across as a sort of Don Quixote and more likely the boy who cried wolf Her values and believes are worthy but the way she goes about defending them is silly. And the time she spends doing it in a place like this makes me seriously wonder.

are we allowed to tell people to just go fuck themselves out here, in the bright daylight of not-scummunity?

survey says,







yes!!

Looks like I have found knee jerk central - does anyone want to take a stab at actually responding to a point - or are you all content to continue with your witty (self perceived anyway) one liners? FYI I would have no idea how to +/- anyone - nor would I care to - its all just opinion - but I guess subtitles are lost on this bunch, Stalking - I think not - although I think Camhead's actions of leaving gear over night on Kansas City and then publicly whining about the results was one of the biggest dufus moves I have heard of.

No one thinks you have a point. Lena is one of the more chill, level headed cats on here. I honestly thought you were too, until this thread.


curt


Feb 6, 2013, 10:13 PM
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olderic wrote:
macherry wrote:
drivel wrote:
olderic wrote:
macherry wrote:
olderic wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.

I was wondering how long it would take for the LC knee jerk response to appear. A little over 30 minutes - she's still got it.

i don't find this humorous either

That's not my point - no one - well very few - will argue that the original comment was appropriate - certainly not PC in this day and age. My point is that LC seems to be constantly lurking - lord knows how she has the time - and immediately dives in with an extremely predictable response. One might initially think that she is some sort of heroine fighting for truth justice and all that jazz. But to me she seems so happy to apply her stereotypical buckets (ironically something she complains about) without actually putting any thought into it that at best she comes across as a sort of Don Quixote and more likely the boy who cried wolf Her values and believes are worthy but the way she goes about defending them is silly. And the time she spends doing it in a place like this makes me seriously wonder.

are we allowed to tell people to just go fuck themselves out here, in the bright daylight of not-scummunity?

survey says,







yes!!

Looks like I have found knee jerk central - does anyone want to take a stab at actually responding to a point - or are you all content to continue with your witty (self perceived anyway) one liners? FYI I would have no idea how to +/- anyone - nor would I care to - its all just opinion - but I guess subtitles are lost on this bunch, Stalking - I think not - although I think Camhead's actions of leaving gear over night on Kansas City and then publicly whining about the results was one of the biggest dufus moves I have heard of.

I was there when Camhead led Kansas City with no falls (and I took some pics)



There was no gear left overnight then. Not that this has anything to do with the true topic at hand, of course.

Curt
Attachments: KC.JPG (38.7 KB)


dagibbs


Feb 6, 2013, 10:23 PM
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Re: [olderic] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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olderic wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.

I was wondering how long it would take for the LC knee jerk response to appear. A little over 30 minutes - she's still got it.

Majid's comment was inappropriate.

Saying nothing when such inappropriate comments are made is giving tacit approval to them. (He said that... but nobody said anything... I guess it is ok.) Therefor it si both appropriate, and needed, that people saying such inappropriate things be called on them. It can be difficult to do, and can result in being attacked yourself -- especially online. But it is correct and needed. lena_chita was quite correct to do this, and did it in a quite appropriate way. She even managed to avoid attacking majid, but rather noted that the comment was inappropriate.

I am glad she did it, and I both glad to see the support for her, and saddened to see the attacks on her for doing it. I would like rc.com to be a place where women feel comfortable reading and posting.


camhead


Feb 7, 2013, 3:58 AM
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Re: [olderic] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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olderic wrote:
but I guess subtitles are lost on this bunch, Stalking - I think not - although I think Camhead's actions of leaving gear over night on Kansas City and then publicly whining about the results was one of the biggest dufus moves I have heard of.

Personal attack fail. And don't worry, a lot of us know who is one-starring Lena's posts, and we know it's not you; was just an inside joke.

I'll still leave it to drivel to tell you to go fuck yourself, though. Maybe even in subtitles!


camhead


Feb 7, 2013, 4:04 AM
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Re: [curt] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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curt wrote:

I was there when Camhead led Kansas City with no falls (and I took some pics)



There was no gear left overnight then. Not that this has anything to do with the true topic at hand, of course.

Curt

Heh, I'd not seen those pics before, Curt! I think Olderic was talking about an incident prior to the time that I sent the route, although I did not leave gear overnight, and certainly did not "whine about the results." The only results were that the internets got butthurt at me.


viciado


Feb 7, 2013, 5:32 AM
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Re: [dagibbs] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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dagibbs wrote:
... I would like rc.com to be a place where women feel comfortable reading and posting.

In the context of the OP... only women?


billl7


Feb 7, 2013, 5:41 AM
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Re: [olderic] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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olderic wrote:
My point is that LC seems to be constantly lurking - lord knows how she has the time - and immediately dives in with an extremely predictable response. One might initially think that she is some sort of heroine fighting for truth justice and all that jazz. But to me she seems so happy to apply her stereotypical buckets (ironically something she complains about) without actually putting any thought into it that at best she comes across as a sort of Don Quixote and more likely the boy who cried wolf Her values and believes are worthy but the way she goes about defending them is silly. And the time she spends doing it in a place like this makes me seriously wonder.
Why a personal attack on a response that came from values and beliefs that are fundamentally worthy? Lena's taking more than her fair share of electrons here?

I grew up with 5 sisters, 4 of whom were close in age to mine. ... able and strong women every week of the month; same with my wife.

Intentionally or not, Majid's humor fosters something not just inappropriate but false and easily believed by those in the half of us who don't have the experiences to know better.

Bill L


granite_grrl


Feb 7, 2013, 5:42 AM
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Re: [viciado] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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viciado wrote:
dagibbs wrote:
... I would like rc.com to be a place where women feel comfortable reading and posting.

In the context of the OP... only women?

Men should feel comfortable too, but I donít see as many of these rude comments made towards men as are made towards women.


viciado


Feb 7, 2013, 5:57 AM
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Re: [granite_grrl] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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Agreed on both points. In terms of the OP, the statement that [we] "would like like rc.com to be a place where women feel comfortable reading and posting." is made at all indicates an inequity; perceived or real; on the site. If we are to discuss equality, then it is reasonable to (attempt to) consider all parties. Given the flame wars here, there may be hope for equality even if there is no hope for" comfortable reading." Wink


lena_chita
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Feb 7, 2013, 6:24 AM
Post #29 of 108 (2599 views)
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Re: [olderic] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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olderic wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up


... and this, ladies and gentlemen, is a very good example of a senseless sexist comment that you are supposed to consider humorous.

I was wondering how long it would take for the LC knee jerk response to appear. A little over 30 minutes - she's still got it.

You know what co-incidence means? it is when two unrelated events occur close in time. Such as, the OP posting his survey, and me having time to check RC.com.

I am glad to know that you were eagerly waiting for my response. Obviously I spend a lot of times here. It took only 25 more posts before I had time to check back.

Yes, equality is one of the subjects I consider important, and make a point to respond to, every time a topic comes up. And I believe that letting sexist remarks stand unchallenged/uncommented on further perpetuates the attitudes that are outdated and need changing.

I clicked on the survey, too, and answered the questions, in case you were wondering. And I considered the survey poorly made and unlikely to produce any meaningful data for analysis, just as the majority of such survey-monkey surveys. I can discuss it point-by-point, in case the OP is interested.


camhead


Feb 7, 2013, 6:33 AM
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Re: [viciado] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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viciado wrote:
dagibbs wrote:
... I would like rc.com to be a place where women feel comfortable reading and posting.

In the context of the OP... only women?

I agree! And while we're on the topic, why is there no WHITE history month?


viciado


Feb 7, 2013, 6:53 AM
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Sly


Partner happiegrrrl


Feb 7, 2013, 7:22 AM
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Re: [jordazz] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
... no one - well very few - will argue that the original comment was appropriate

Wow! We no longer need to watch Fox News to see that there are people out there propagating myths about male superiority/female weakness....

In reply to:
Majid's comment was inappropriate.

Saying nothing when such inappropriate comments are made is giving tacit approval to them. (He said that... but nobody said anything... I guess it is ok.) Therefor it si both appropriate, and needed, that people saying such inappropriate things be called on them. It can be difficult to do, and can result in being attacked yourself -- especially online. But it is correct and needed. lena_chita was quite correct to do this, and did it in a quite appropriate way.

VERY well stated. This would have been applicable to the recent rampage on misogyny over at Supertopo the last week.


Partner happiegrrrl


Feb 7, 2013, 7:24 AM
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Re: [viciado] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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viciado wrote:
dagibbs wrote:
... I would like rc.com to be a place where women feel comfortable reading and posting.

In the context of the OP... only women?

It was clearly intended to be in context of Olderic's misogynistic opinion, which he purported to be
a factual statement.

Why do you suggest it was about the OP?


shimanilami


Feb 7, 2013, 7:50 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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Talk about hijacking a thread!

Majid, once again, proves himself to be the undisputed king of trolls.


Gmburns2000


Feb 7, 2013, 7:59 AM
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Re: [shimanilami] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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shimanilami wrote:
Talk about hijacking a thread!

Majid, once again, proves himself to be the undisputed king of trolls.


This. And knowing Eric, I'm betting he just decided to move it along a bit.

Not that either's comments were appropriate.


billl7


Feb 7, 2013, 8:34 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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And I think RC.com will have finally "arrived" when women are posting jokes like Majid's and/or calling "troll" on such posts.


majid_sabet


Feb 7, 2013, 9:43 AM
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Re: [jordazz] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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you RCers can't even discuss a simple matter here without jumping on each others and I wonder how are you going to help OP ?

For every 10 male climbers who summit an 8000 meter peak, may be 1-2 women do the same. that is a fact and if you do not believe me, visit base camps to see it yourself.


lena_chita
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Feb 7, 2013, 9:53 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
you RCers can't even discuss a simple matter here without jumping on each others and I wonder how are you going to help OP ?

For every 10 male climbers who summit an 8000 meter peak, may be 1-2 women do the same. that is a fact and if you do not believe me, visit base camps to see it yourself.

Why wouldn't we believe you?

According to any number of studies that attempted to estimate this, women make up about 20% of climbers. Which would match your numbers pretty well.

And your point is?


camhead


Feb 7, 2013, 10:03 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
For every 10 male climbers who summit an 8000 meter peak, may be 1-2 women do the same. that is a fact and if you do not believe me, visit base camps to see it yourself.

That doesn't mean anything. Since you love your numbers and stats so much, why don't you plug in the data and see if women fail to summit at a higher rate than men? That might actually give you something to argue.


majid_sabet


Feb 7, 2013, 10:06 AM
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Re: [lena_chita] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
you RCers can't even discuss a simple matter here without jumping on each others and I wonder how are you going to help OP ?

For every 10 male climbers who summit an 8000 meter peak, may be 1-2 women do the same. that is a fact and if you do not believe me, visit base camps to see it yourself.

Why wouldn't we believe you?

According to any number of studies that attempted to estimate this, women make up about 20% of climbers. Which would match your numbers pretty well.

And your point is?

one of my female friend just came back from hiking to South pole, some 22 days of hauling 150 lbs of stuff in sub-zero temp. Another best female climber friend of mine who attempt to climb K2 in 2010 was killed on G2 in 2011 for a simple mistake and my closest female friend in Yosemite climbs stuff where none of you would even dream to climb so I been around female climbers to see what their capabilities are but, when we talk about whether men and women are equal in outdoors, the true answer IMO is No, they are not equal. We have to compare them on case by case only.


carabiner96


Feb 7, 2013, 10:16 AM
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camhead wrote:
curt wrote:

I was there when Camhead led Kansas City with no falls (and I took some pics)



There was no gear left overnight then. Not that this has anything to do with the true topic at hand, of course.

Curt

Heh, I'd not seen those pics before, Curt! I think Olderic was talking about an incident prior to the time that I sent the route, although I did not leave gear overnight, and certainly did not "whine about the results." The only results were that the internets got butthurt at me.
old Eric is still butthurty over, let alone remembers, something that happened in 2009?


billl7


Feb 7, 2013, 10:20 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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A local climbing club has 108 members with 21 folks rated as club "Leaders". They do a mix of single-pitch and multi-pitch climbing.

~37% overall are women
~24% of those with a "Leader" rating are women

Doesn't strike me as obviously discriminatory but some may disagree.

I'm no longer part of the group. But back when I was, for multi-pitch, the hardest thing for women was in finding either like-minded female partners or male partners whose spouse's were okay with husband spending all day outside with another woman.


Gmburns2000


Feb 7, 2013, 10:35 AM
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billl7 wrote:
A local climbing club has 108 members with 21 folks rated as club "Leaders". They do a mix of single-pitch and multi-pitch climbing.

~37% overall are women
~24% of those with a "Leader" rating are women

Doesn't strike me as obviously discriminatory but some may disagree.

I'm no longer part of the group. But back when I was, for multi-pitch, the hardest thing for women was in finding either like-minded female partners or male partners whose spouse's were okay with husband spending all day outside with another woman.

or single male partners who weren't going to hit on her all day long.


MikeDierson


Feb 7, 2013, 10:36 AM
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Re: [jordazz] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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I find that it is easier for the man to take a urine high on the wall. Otherwise equal.


Gmburns2000


Feb 7, 2013, 10:39 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
billl7 wrote:
A local climbing club has 108 members with 21 folks rated as club "Leaders". They do a mix of single-pitch and multi-pitch climbing.

~37% overall are women
~24% of those with a "Leader" rating are women

Doesn't strike me as obviously discriminatory but some may disagree.

I'm no longer part of the group. But back when I was, for multi-pitch, the hardest thing for women was in finding either like-minded female partners or male partners whose spouse's were okay with husband spending all day outside with another woman.

or single male partners who weren't going to hit on her all day long.

not that I know you or what you're talking about; I was just making an educated guess.


granite_grrl


Feb 7, 2013, 10:49 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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Gmburns2000 wrote:
billl7 wrote:
A local climbing club has 108 members with 21 folks rated as club "Leaders". They do a mix of single-pitch and multi-pitch climbing.

~37% overall are women
~24% of those with a "Leader" rating are women

Doesn't strike me as obviously discriminatory but some may disagree.

I'm no longer part of the group. But back when I was, for multi-pitch, the hardest thing for women was in finding either like-minded female partners or male partners whose spouse's were okay with husband spending all day outside with another woman.

or single male partners who weren't going to hit on her all day long.

While this does happen, I've had tons of single male partners (while I've been single, dating and married) that haven't hit on me. I'd say that as a rule, guys that take climbing seriously aren't going to hit on their climbing partners.


lena_chita
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Feb 7, 2013, 10:56 AM
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billl7 wrote:
A local climbing club has 108 members with 21 folks rated as club "Leaders". They do a mix of single-pitch and multi-pitch climbing.

~37% overall are women
~24% of those with a "Leader" rating are women

Doesn't strike me as obviously discriminatory but some may disagree.

It is not "discriminatory", unless the club had a policy, either official or unofficial, to make it harder for women to join, or to become a " leader".


But obviously, with percentage of females in the US being somewhere ~ 50.6%, the women are under-represented in this club of yours, as well as in climbing community in general.


billl7


Feb 7, 2013, 11:11 AM
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lena_chita wrote:
It is not "discriminatory", unless the club had a policy, either official or unofficial, to make it harder for women to join, or to become a " leader".
No such policy.

And knowing the club, I believe they do not discrimate at the entry level. So if there were yet hidden discriminatory habits within the club, I'd expect the percentages of women at the Leader level to be much smaller. So I'm think this club does treat women equally in the outdoors.

lena_chita wrote:
But obviously, with percentage of females in the US being somewhere ~ 50.6%, the women are under-represented in this club of yours, as well as in climbing community in general.

Sure. And in my experience, it's not because they are explicitly kept by male climbers/leaders from becoming female climbers/leaders - the topic I assumed but I have to confess I did not answer the survey so may have missed something.


moose_droppings


Feb 7, 2013, 11:25 AM
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majid_sabet wrote:
one of my female friend just came back from hiking to South pole, some 22 days of hauling 150 lbs of stuff in sub-zero temp. Another best female climber friend of mine who attempt to climb K2 in 2010 was killed on G2 in 2011 for a simple mistake and my closest female friend in Yosemite climbs stuff where none of you would even dream to climb so I been around female climbers to see what their capabilities are but, when we talk about whether men and women are equal in outdoors, the true answer IMO is No, they are not equal. We have to compare them on case by case only.

I honestly don't believe Majid is trying to be a sexist nor a troll on the subject. He's merely giving us his honest response on the subject based on perceptions derived from experiences in his life.

The only way to enlighten him and others is with facts that refute his assessment. I hope.


billl7


Feb 7, 2013, 11:33 AM
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MikeDierson wrote:
The "leader" is not a regulatory title in my country. "Leader" is a mindset. They are comfortable being responsible for the teams security. Anchor building is #1 priority (no bolts here). We say that leader is general and second is soilder. Both are nessary to have victory on the face (war). Leader makes protection decisions but follower must have even stronger balls to have 100% faith in leaders decision making. The summit is reached.
This is my personal view as well - and alludes to one of the reasons I am no longer in the club.


bearbreeder


Feb 7, 2013, 11:40 AM
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still trying to send that 5.8 majid?

but dont worry ... im sure a REAL MAN like you would have no problem getting your ass kicked by many of the girls out here

they dont bother wasting time pretending how to climb ... they just go out and send Tongue


dr_feelgood


Feb 7, 2013, 1:00 PM
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majid_sabet wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
you RCers can't even discuss a simple matter here without jumping on each others and I wonder how are you going to help OP ?

For every 10 male climbers who summit an 8000 meter peak, may be 1-2 women do the same. that is a fact and if you do not believe me, visit base camps to see it yourself.

Why wouldn't we believe you?

According to any number of studies that attempted to estimate this, women make up about 20% of climbers. Which would match your numbers pretty well.

And your point is?

one of my female friend just came back from hiking to South pole, some 22 days of hauling 150 lbs of stuff in sub-zero temp. Another best female climber friend of mine who attempt to climb K2 in 2010 was killed on G2 in 2011 for a simple mistake and my closest female friend in Yosemite climbs stuff where none of you would even dream to climb so I been around female climbers to see what their capabilities are but, when we talk about whether men and women are equal in outdoors, the true answer IMO is No, they are not equal. We have to compare them on case by case only.
anecdotes do not equal conclusive evidence.


Gmburns2000


Feb 7, 2013, 1:10 PM
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granite_grrl wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
billl7 wrote:
A local climbing club has 108 members with 21 folks rated as club "Leaders". They do a mix of single-pitch and multi-pitch climbing.

~37% overall are women
~24% of those with a "Leader" rating are women

Doesn't strike me as obviously discriminatory but some may disagree.

I'm no longer part of the group. But back when I was, for multi-pitch, the hardest thing for women was in finding either like-minded female partners or male partners whose spouse's were okay with husband spending all day outside with another woman.

or single male partners who weren't going to hit on her all day long.

While this does happen, I've had tons of single male partners (while I've been single, dating and married) that haven't hit on me. I'd say that as a rule, guys that take climbing seriously aren't going to hit on their climbing partners.

I believe that. I just think it can be a factor.


majid_sabet


Feb 7, 2013, 3:52 PM
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bearbreeder wrote:
still trying to send that 5.8 majid?

but dont worry ... im sure a REAL MAN like you would have no problem getting your ass kicked by many of the girls out here

they dont bother wasting time pretending how to climb ... they just go out and send Tongue

I am out of climbing commission for few more months till my hand gets better.


SylviaSmile


Feb 7, 2013, 7:07 PM
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jordazz wrote:
Hey I'm studying Outdoor Education at LJMU and I'm writing a research project on gender equality in sport and outdoor adventurous activities. I'd really value your opinion and appreciate if you could take 2 minutes to fill out this confidential online surey
Most of the questions are simple Yes/ No and you only have to answer what you feel comfortable with. I apprichiate that not everybody has the time to do this but I would be extremely grateful to anybody who can help me out.
I believe I have witnessed cases of gender discrimination in the field and would like to see if others have such experiences.
Please note, it is not just women who may feel have been subjected to sexism, again I believe I have been treated unfairly for being a male.
Thank you so much for your time! If anybody would like a copy of the findings or the project upon finishing I would be happy to send anybody a copy around April times.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/RQLJVZX

OH my gosh, this thread . . . well, anyway! There's probably sexism everywhere, but I have never personally experienced it in the context of climbing or really any other outdoor activity. Good luck with your project!


curt


Feb 7, 2013, 7:33 PM
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camhead wrote:
Heh, I'd not seen those pics before, Curt!

Really? If you make sure I have your correct email or cell number, I'll send you a high-res version.

Curt


guangzhou


Feb 7, 2013, 9:09 PM
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majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.


guangzhou


Feb 7, 2013, 9:17 PM
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MikeDierson wrote:
One cannot have claims to not desiered joining "mile high club" on the face. This is not true? Especially with a pretty girl as the second?

Why would you assume she's the second, why not the one leading. I'm sure Maya Gobat does her fair share of leading high on the wall. I even doubt you could second her on her trips up the Nose.


majid_sabet


Feb 7, 2013, 10:55 PM
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guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.


viciado


Feb 8, 2013, 2:29 AM
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happiegrrrl wrote:
viciado wrote:
dagibbs wrote:
... I would like rc.com to be a place where women feel comfortable reading and posting.

In the context of the OP... only women?

It was clearly intended to be in context of Olderic's misogynistic opinion, which he purported to be
a factual statement.


Why do you suggest it was about the OP?

I didn't... PM sent.


iknowfear


Feb 8, 2013, 3:15 AM
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majid_sabet wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
still trying to send that 5.8 majid?

but dont worry ... im sure a REAL MAN like you would have no problem getting your ass kicked by many of the girls out here

they dont bother wasting time pretending how to climb ... they just go out and send Tongue

I am out of climbing commission for few more months till my hand gets better.

Yes, RSI can be a terrible thing...


camhead


Feb 8, 2013, 3:17 AM
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majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.

Is it because she doesn't wear a burkha? I'll bet it's because she doesn't wear a burkha.


bearbreeder


Feb 8, 2013, 8:38 AM
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Mahhjeed just cant accept the fact that she climbs ... Period

Unlike him Tongue


lena_chita
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Feb 8, 2013, 8:42 AM
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majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.


Hmmm... having locals who don't speak highly of her, disqualifies her from having an opinion on her experience as a woman in a climbing world?

In that case, sorry, majid. I think we can scrape up quite a few people who don't speak highly of you. therefore, your opinion is not valid.


majid_sabet


Feb 8, 2013, 8:46 AM
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true , but I do not advertise myself as anyone or stand on anything to be as a reference.


majid_sabet


Feb 8, 2013, 8:49 AM
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camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.

Is it because she doesn't wear a burkha? I'll bet it's because she doesn't wear a burkha.

All I am saying that they are other women who climb as good or even better than her so why do you think she is such a significant figure in the climbing world ?


mojomonkey


Feb 8, 2013, 8:52 AM
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bearbreeder wrote:
Mahhjeed just cant accept the fact that she climbs ... Period

Unlike him Tongue

Purposely mangling someone's name, taunting about what grade they climb, and smiley faces in most posts don't really make you look good in your online bickering.

Though maybe now you'll mention how some top climber loves smiley faces and mispronouncing names to heckle, so clearly that is the thing to do because they climb hard! And what do RCers know anyway? Crazy


granite_grrl


Feb 8, 2013, 9:07 AM
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bearbreeder wrote:
Mahhjeed just cant accept the fact that she climbs ... Period

Unlike him Tongue

Reminds me of this classic:
In reply to:
Christ, you guys are pathetic. Do you follow Majid around in real life and shit up his regular conversations?

Two days from now, at the Burger King Drive Thru:

Smile=Majid, Crazy=JakeDbearbreeder, Unimpressed= Unlucky Fast Food Employee

UnsureHello, may I take your order?

SmileYes, I would like a Whopper Jr. with extra onions and rel

Crazy*standing on nearby lawn with a bullhorn*: Jesus Fuck! How stupid are you? Why do I have to always hear about your damn onions! Wear a helmet, seriously, I still love that tired-ass joke after all these years! And for fuck's sake, drive-thru, dude, don't listen to this guy. Make it with regular onions!

Smile *resigned, this obviously happens a lot*: Please add those onions. They are often tasty and contain folic acid, an important nutrient.

Unimpressed:That'll 2.34, please drive around.

Crazy: Shit! I can't believe that guy is giving him the onions. I'm pissed, I better call my buddies so they can beat Majid to his house and mock him while he eats.

Smile*pulls out green dry erase marker, draws circle around Value Combo #1 with connecting arrow to breakfast menu hashbrowns, then drives around to the window*

Crazy*shits pants with rage*

Smiley faces and everything!


lena_chita
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Feb 8, 2013, 9:27 AM
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SylviaSmile wrote:
OH my gosh, this thread . . . well, anyway! There's probably sexism everywhere, but I have never personally experienced it in the context of climbing or really any other outdoor activity. Good luck with your project!

I can't say that I experienced MORE sexism in the climbing community, or in an "outdoor activity", than I have experienced it in general life. But I have certainly experienced it in climbing.

Have you never heard people use terms for female genitalia, or call their male friends "girl" as a way to shame or motivate them? "Don't be a pussy, bro, commit to it! You can do it!" That is an example of sexism.

Making assumption about someone's abilities based on gender-- that is sexism, too.

You had an example from this very thread (the assumption that a "pretty girl" would, of course, be seconding:

MikeDierson wrote:
One cannot have claims to not desiered joining "mile high club" on the face. This is not true? Especially with a pretty girl as the second?

Some real-life examples:

Example 1: the crag is empty. I just climbed, and my (male) partner, who is not feeling the best decides to toprope the climb I led. He is having a hard time at the bottom 1/3rd of the climb when another guy walks in. Looks at the guy climbing, looks at me, looks around, finally asks me: who put the rope up? When I tell him that I did, he does a double-take, regroups, and proceeds with "oh, wow, you must be really strong. Wow, good for you! This climb looks amazing! I don't think I could do it, but someday... "

The guy was not rude to me. In fact, he was really complimentary. BUT, if the situation were reversed, a female climber struggling on a toprope, with a male belaying her, and the crag otherwise empty, would the guy have looked beyond the belaying male for SOMEONE who had led this route? Likely not. Hence-- this is an example of a sexist attitude, even though it was not an act of rudeness directed at me, it clearly shows that the guy has underlying assumptions about men and women climbers

Example 2: I just finished climbing. The rope is up. The crag in empty. My female partner and I are having a leisurely morning. This wall has, in order: 5.10b, 5.9, 5.10d, 5.10b, 5.11d, 5.11d. We hear a large group walking in from a long way off, because they are speaking loudly. The guy who must be the most experienced one in the group says something along the lines of: so, there is a 5.9 there, and a 10b, and I bet we can set the toprope up on the 10d that is next to the 5.9 from the anchors of 5.9...

Finally, the group walks in. The guy in front has a guidebook in his hands, but when he sees us, he stops and says, oh, this must be the 5.9! No, I tell him, the 5.9 is over there. Oh, he says, then this is the 5.10b? (pointing at our rope). No, I tell him, the .10b is the first one on the left, and the 4th one. This is .11d. Again, a double-take from the guy: so, uh, did you climb it? Wow!

The climb in question does NOT look anything like a 5.9, In fact, the start of this climb, while not the crux, looks more intimidating than it is. So the only reason the guy assumed this climb was a 5.9 was... what, exactly? The fact that this is the only rope up, and there are two "girls" underneath it, so of course they must be on the easiest climb!


majid_sabet


Feb 8, 2013, 9:49 AM
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camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.

Is it because she doesn't wear a burkha? I'll bet it's because she doesn't wear a burkha.

I'll take any Burkha girl over a non-Burkha cause under the burkha,you got another FA to discover


bearbreeder


Feb 8, 2013, 10:20 AM
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mojomonkey wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:

Purposely mangling someone's name, taunting about what grade they climb, and smiley faces in most posts don't really make you look good in your online bickering.

Though maybe now you'll mention how some top climber loves smiley faces and mispronouncing names to heckle, so clearly that is the thing to do because they climb hard! And what do RCers know anyway? Crazy

No im just bashing the mahhhjeed who doesnt climb, yet puts down lynn hill who has done more to advance climbing than hell ever do in his wet dreams ... Or any RC er on this thread for that matter

Not that the mahhhjeed actually had the ability to lead even moderate climbs, before proclaiming interesting "facts" about female climbers ...

But thats all a ok ... Because at RC were thise who cant who laugh at those who can and do Tongue


Partner macherry


Feb 8, 2013, 11:32 AM
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majid_sabet wrote:
camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.

Is it because she doesn't wear a burkha? I'll bet it's because she doesn't wear a burkha.

I'll take any Burkha girl over a non-Burkha cause under the burkha,you got another FA to discover

its just doesn't stop


this thread is one big example


camhead


Feb 8, 2013, 11:45 AM
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majid_sabet wrote:
camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.

Is it because she doesn't wear a burkha? I'll bet it's because she doesn't wear a burkha.

All I am saying that they are other women who climb as good or even better than her so why do you think she is such a significant figure in the climbing world ?

I dunno. Maybe because she freed the nose and was the first woman to climb 5.14? Maybe that's it?


camhead


Feb 8, 2013, 11:48 AM
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majid_sabet wrote:
true , but I do not advertise myself as anyone or stand on anything to be as a reference.


hahahahahahahaha! Yes you do. You advertise yourself as rc.com's ropework and rescue reference.


majid_sabet


Feb 8, 2013, 12:44 PM
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camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.

Is it because she doesn't wear a burkha? I'll bet it's because she doesn't wear a burkha.

All I am saying that they are other women who climb as good or even better than her so why do you think she is such a significant figure in the climbing world ?

I dunno. Maybe because she freed the nose and was the first woman to climb 5.14? Maybe that's it?

if you truly know the history, there is another woman who free the nose in a day 1 week before her.


camhead


Feb 8, 2013, 12:54 PM
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majid_sabet wrote:
camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.

Is it because she doesn't wear a burkha? I'll bet it's because she doesn't wear a burkha.

All I am saying that they are other women who climb as good or even better than her so why do you think she is such a significant figure in the climbing world ?

I dunno. Maybe because she freed the nose and was the first woman to climb 5.14? Maybe that's it?

if you truly know the history, there is another woman who free the nose in a day 1 week before her.


Clearly I don't know my history, you should enlighten us all. But note I said nothing about NIAD; I just mentioned the FFA.


lena_chita
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Feb 8, 2013, 12:57 PM
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camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.

Is it because she doesn't wear a burkha? I'll bet it's because she doesn't wear a burkha.

All I am saying that they are other women who climb as good or even better than her so why do you think she is such a significant figure in the climbing world ?

I dunno. Maybe because she freed the nose and was the first woman to climb 5.14? Maybe that's it?

if you truly know the history, there is another woman who free the nose in a day 1 week before her.


Clearly I don't know my history, you should enlighten us all. But note I said nothing about NIAD; I just mentioned the FFA.

... and none of it is really relevant to whether Lynn Hill is or isn't qualified to comment on her experience as a female climber. Tongue


climbingtrash


Feb 8, 2013, 1:42 PM
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bearbreeder wrote:
mojomonkey wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:

Purposely mangling someone's name, taunting about what grade they climb, and smiley faces in most posts don't really make you look good in your online bickering.

Though maybe now you'll mention how some top climber loves smiley faces and mispronouncing names to heckle, so clearly that is the thing to do because they climb hard! And what do RCers know anyway? Crazy

No im just bashing the mahhhjeed who doesnt climb, yet puts down lynn hill who has done more to advance climbing than hell ever do in his wet dreams ... Or any RC er on this thread for that matter

Not that the mahhhjeed actually had the ability to lead even moderate climbs, before proclaiming interesting "facts" about female climbers ...

But thats all a ok ... Because at RC were thise who cant who laugh at those who can and do Tongue

Why ewe has to cheeztit like that donny, why?


climbingtrash


Feb 8, 2013, 1:44 PM
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lena_chita wrote:
camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.

Is it because she doesn't wear a burkha? I'll bet it's because she doesn't wear a burkha.

All I am saying that they are other women who climb as good or even better than her so why do you think she is such a significant figure in the climbing world ?

I dunno. Maybe because she freed the nose and was the first woman to climb 5.14? Maybe that's it?

if you truly know the history, there is another woman who free the nose in a day 1 week before her.


Clearly I don't know my history, you should enlighten us all. But note I said nothing about NIAD; I just mentioned the FFA.

... and none of it is really relevant to whether Lynn Hill is or isn't qualified to comment on her experience as a female climber. Tongue

wait, didn't Lynn Hill do something a while back that was pretty awesome...for a chick? Angelic


SylviaSmile


Feb 8, 2013, 2:26 PM
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lena_chita wrote:
Have you never heard people use terms for female genitalia, or call their male friends "girl" as a way to shame or motivate them? "Don't be a pussy, bro, commit to it! You can do it!" That is an example of sexism.

I actually haven't heard that kind of thing while climbing, but I also tend not to tune into other groups' conversations a lot. Certainly I've never heard that from any guys I've climbed with.

lena_chita wrote:
Making assumption about someone's abilities based on gender-- that is sexism, too. Etc.

Yeah, but of course I would never experience that either because I don't climb hard! Laugh


SylviaSmile


Feb 8, 2013, 2:39 PM
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macherry wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.

Is it because she doesn't wear a burkha? I'll bet it's because she doesn't wear a burkha.

I'll take any Burkha girl over a non-Burkha cause under the burkha,you got another FA to discover

its just doesn't stop


this thread is one big example

Yes, but the question at the top of the thread is "are men and women equal in the outdoors?" This is not the outdoors. This is RC.com.


Gmburns2000


Feb 8, 2013, 3:54 PM
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majid_sabet wrote:
camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.

Is it because she doesn't wear a burkha? I'll bet it's because she doesn't wear a burkha.

All I am saying that they are other women who climb as good or even better than her so why do you think she is such a significant figure in the climbing world ?

I dunno. Maybe because she freed the nose and was the first woman to climb 5.14? Maybe that's it?

if you truly know the history, there is another woman who free the nose in a day 1 week before her.

actually, I'm really quite curious now. Honest request, please tell.


guangzhou


Feb 8, 2013, 6:52 PM
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lena_chita wrote:
SylviaSmile wrote:
OH my gosh, this thread . . . well, anyway! There's probably sexism everywhere, but I have never personally experienced it in the context of climbing or really any other outdoor activity. Good luck with your project!

I can't say that I experienced MORE sexism in the climbing community, or in an "outdoor activity", than I have experienced it in general life. But I have certainly experienced it in climbing.

Have you never heard people use terms for female genitalia, or call their male friends "girl" as a way to shame or motivate them? "Don't be a pussy, bro, commit to it! You can do it!" That is an example of sexism.

Making assumption about someone's abilities based on gender-- that is sexism, too.

You had an example from this very thread (the assumption that a "pretty girl" would, of course, be seconding:

MikeDierson wrote:
One cannot have claims to not desiered joining "mile high club" on the face. This is not true? Especially with a pretty girl as the second?

Some real-life examples:

Example 1: the crag is empty. I just climbed, and my (male) partner, who is not feeling the best decides to toprope the climb I led. He is having a hard time at the bottom 1/3rd of the climb when another guy walks in. Looks at the guy climbing, looks at me, looks around, finally asks me: who put the rope up? When I tell him that I did, he does a double-take, regroups, and proceeds with "oh, wow, you must be really strong. Wow, good for you! This climb looks amazing! I don't think I could do it, but someday... "

The guy was not rude to me. In fact, he was really complimentary. BUT, if the situation were reversed, a female climber struggling on a toprope, with a male belaying her, and the crag otherwise empty, would the guy have looked beyond the belaying male for SOMEONE who had led this route? Likely not. Hence-- this is an example of a sexist attitude, even though it was not an act of rudeness directed at me, it clearly shows that the guy has underlying assumptions about men and women climbers

Example 2: I just finished climbing. The rope is up. The crag in empty. My female partner and I are having a leisurely morning. This wall has, in order: 5.10b, 5.9, 5.10d, 5.10b, 5.11d, 5.11d. We hear a large group walking in from a long way off, because they are speaking loudly. The guy who must be the most experienced one in the group says something along the lines of: so, there is a 5.9 there, and a 10b, and I bet we can set the toprope up on the 10d that is next to the 5.9 from the anchors of 5.9...

Finally, the group walks in. The guy in front has a guidebook in his hands, but when he sees us, he stops and says, oh, this must be the 5.9! No, I tell him, the 5.9 is over there. Oh, he says, then this is the 5.10b? (pointing at our rope). No, I tell him, the .10b is the first one on the left, and the 4th one. This is .11d. Again, a double-take from the guy: so, uh, did you climb it? Wow!

The climb in question does NOT look anything like a 5.9, In fact, the start of this climb, while not the crux, looks more intimidating than it is. So the only reason the guy assumed this climb was a 5.9 was... what, exactly? The fact that this is the only rope up, and there are two "girls" underneath it, so of course they must be on the easiest climb!

Interesting. While I am not saying these comments are sexist or not, it could be that those people, guys, were just impressed with someone who actually climbs hard by their standards.


I can give an example of one for sure sexist situation.

I was living in CLarksville TN and climbing the local crag, King's Bluff. Some nice limestone routes. Clarksville is also home to Fort Campbell and the 101 Airbone, so the crags often sees young soldiers climbing.

I was climbing with a female partner on the route "Girly Girly Girls 5.12." Another femal partner of mine named it after several of us, including her failed, time and time again and she finally figured out the sequence. Took most of us another six months to repeat it, she could run laps on it.

Anyways, she's leading the route, reaches the belay, clears it, and pulls the draws so we can move on to our next route. The whole time, these young Army guys, six or seven of them, were watching her.

When we pack up, one of them says "let's climb this one, if that woman can do, shouldn't be to hard." My partner and I look at each other and say nothing, but we decide to jump on a route not far so we can entertain ourselves.

All of them tried several time to reach the first bolt but couldn't. When we offered to show them some routes in the area that was more appropriate for their level, they declined. (The area had no guidebook at the time.)

Was pretty funny, my partner laughed it off.


namoclimber


Feb 9, 2013, 1:33 PM
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There is always going to be sexism. Your not going to change that and being on guard all the time and provoking confrontation makes everything worse. I find a lot of the time its brought on by individuals with less skill then brains and its best to just do the walking instead of talking. I used to love belaying one of my girl friends on her projects in the red and smith just to hear the comments from passer byes. The crap that comes out of peoples mouths is hilarious. I think its always best to simply ask if they want a try.Sly Then watch as they slink away after they realize its like 5.13+.
Lets just face it though people suck equally. And after all its all about just crushing some rock and enjoying some company or solitude.


billl7


Feb 9, 2013, 2:16 PM
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namoclimber wrote:
There is always going to be sexism. Your not going to change that and being on guard all the time and provoking confrontation makes everything worse.

Yes and no. Yes, it can make things worse rather than something positive.

Not going to change? No, it can change through grass roots activism. It should unless one decides "we've arrived."

In my lifetime, I witnessed a woman turned down for a home loan because she was recently divorced, even though she had a steady, full time, dependable job (edit: a job she landed after going back to college post-divorce for a year to complete a teaching program). She ended up having to go to extended family to help with the financing and 15 or so years later sold the home with great return on investment.

Sure - out on the rock, most of the time, sexism can be shrugged off without great impact on the day(s). But a little well-timed push-back might make a difference in how those guys behave back in the office where prejudices can have greater impact.

Bill L


(This post was edited by billl7 on Feb 9, 2013, 2:18 PM)


wivanoff


Feb 9, 2013, 5:10 PM
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Surprised no one posted these.

"Never noticed a female monkey not climbing as well as a male, have you?" -
Don Whillans on being asked it if was possible for a woman to be a better rock climber than a man.

"Rocks make no compromise for sex... rock climbing is not like some sports, where it is made easier for women; or sports like, say, softball, which is only baseball for soft people. On a rock, everything is equal." -Beverly Johnson

You should have had your survey monkey on a golfer's forum. And then ask why there is a "ladies tee".

(And, for the record, I like climbing with women.)


olderic


Feb 9, 2013, 6:20 PM
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billl7 wrote:
namoclimber wrote:
There is always going to be sexism. Your not going to change that and being on guard all the time and provoking confrontation makes everything worse.

Yes and no. Yes, it can make things worse rather than something positive.
Bill L


I think namoclimber is on the right track with that sentiment. The compass/true north quote from the Lincoln movie comes to mind.


billl7


Feb 9, 2013, 6:23 PM
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olderic wrote:
billl7 wrote:
namoclimber wrote:
There is always going to be sexism. Your not going to change that and being on guard all the time and provoking confrontation makes everything worse.

Yes and no. Yes, it can make things worse rather than something positive.
Bill L

I think namoclimber is on the right track with that sentiment. The compass/true north quote from the Lincoln movie comes to mind.
Nice misquote. Are you going to fix that?


(This post was edited by billl7 on Feb 9, 2013, 6:23 PM)


Partner macherry


Feb 9, 2013, 9:36 PM
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namoclimber wrote:
There is always going to be sexism. Your not going to change that and being on guard all the time and provoking confrontation makes everything worse. I find a lot of the time its brought on by individuals with less skill then brains and its best to just do the walking instead of talking. I used to love belaying one of my girl friends on her projects in the red and smith just to hear the comments from passer byes. The crap that comes out of peoples mouths is hilarious. I think its always best to simply ask if they want a try.Sly Then watch as they slink away after they realize its like 5.13+.
Lets just face it though people suck equally. And after all its all about just crushing some rock and enjoying some company or solitude.

i really hate uppity wimmin


lena_chita
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Feb 10, 2013, 6:04 AM
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namoclimber wrote:
There is always going to be sexism. Your not going to change that and being on guard all the time and provoking confrontation makes everything worse. I find a lot of the time its brought on by individuals with less skill then brains and its best to just do the walking instead of talking. I used to love belaying one of my girl friends on her projects in the red and smith just to hear the comments from passer byes. The crap that comes out of peoples mouths is hilarious. I think its always best to simply ask if they want a try.Sly Then watch as they slink away after they realize its like 5.13+.
Lets just face it though people suck equally. And after all its all about just crushing some rock and enjoying some company or solitude.


Worse for whom? Worse for a guy who is walking around blithely unaware that he is being sexist? Oh well, I'll make it worse for him then, if I can.

Sometimes internet provides an opportunity to explain something that is not easily done IRL. When a guy first looks around for any possible (male) person who might have led the route, and then settles on me and tells me that wow, he is really impressed, I do not tell him, gee, you are a sexist jerk. I tell him thank you.

But if a subject comes up, I would explain it.


kyro


Feb 10, 2013, 8:43 AM
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To the op. I think that rock climbing is one of the least divided sport/activity. I will and know many guys who will not hesitate to climb with a woman if she is safe and can climb at the same level or better. The rock doesn't care who u are. Neither do I. Until I read this thread I thought that sexism in climbing was extremely low. Guess I was wrong lol but on this site people will complain about everything


lena_chita
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Feb 11, 2013, 7:43 AM
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kyro wrote:
To the op. I think that rock climbing is one of the least divided sport/activity. I will and know many guys who will not hesitate to climb with a woman if she is safe and can climb at the same level or better. The rock doesn't care who u are. Neither do I.

A great example of true, true, and unrelated.

Yes, climbing is an activity where the difference in male performance and female performance is rather small, compared to a lot of other sports. However, this is neither here, nor there. Running is not sexist because male record speed is different from female record speed. Neither is climbing.

Yes, I too know plenty of climbers of either gender who would climb with climbers of either gender without discrimination, as long as the partner is safe and competent. So what? These people are not the ones who are the problem.

I am also really glad to know that rock doesn't care. Until you pointed it out, I was SURE that it did!


As I said up-thread, there isn't so much climbing-specific sexism, as much as people who are sexist in their everyday life being ALSO sexist when it comes to climbing.

People who are sexist don't drop their sexist attitude at the door to the climbing gym, or at the parking lot to the crag. And people who are conscious about sexism are conscious to it at work, AND while climbing.


drivel


Jun 10, 2013, 5:08 PM
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moose_droppings wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
one of my female friend just came back from hiking to South pole, some 22 days of hauling 150 lbs of stuff in sub-zero temp. Another best female climber friend of mine who attempt to climb K2 in 2010 was killed on G2 in 2011 for a simple mistake and my closest female friend in Yosemite climbs stuff where none of you would even dream to climb so I been around female climbers to see what their capabilities are but, when we talk about whether men and women are equal in outdoors, the true answer IMO is No, they are not equal. We have to compare them on case by case only.

I honestly don't believe Majid is trying to be a sexist nor a troll on the subject. He's merely giving us his honest response on the subject based on perceptions derived from experiences in his life.

The only way to enlighten him and others is with facts that refute his assessment. I hope.

very, very few people are actually "trolls."

most of the horrible shit on the internet are people's actual opinions that they really believe.


[not that I think what majid said this time is particularly repugnant. just throwin out the reminder that the number of people actually plotting to piss people off is super small. its just that there are a lot of horrible people, and the internet lets those people say what they really think, and also sometimes they are attention-seeking.]


curt


Jun 10, 2013, 5:44 PM
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drivel wrote:
moose_droppings wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
one of my female friend just came back from hiking to South pole, some 22 days of hauling 150 lbs of stuff in sub-zero temp. Another best female climber friend of mine who attempt to climb K2 in 2010 was killed on G2 in 2011 for a simple mistake and my closest female friend in Yosemite climbs stuff where none of you would even dream to climb so I been around female climbers to see what their capabilities are but, when we talk about whether men and women are equal in outdoors, the true answer IMO is No, they are not equal. We have to compare them on case by case only.

I honestly don't believe Majid is trying to be a sexist nor a troll on the subject. He's merely giving us his honest response on the subject based on perceptions derived from experiences in his life.

The only way to enlighten him and others is with facts that refute his assessment. I hope.

very, very few people are actually "trolls."

most of the horrible shit on the internet are people's actual opinions that they really believe.


[not that I think what majid said this time is particularly repugnant. just throwin out the reminder that the number of people actually plotting to piss people off is super small. its just that there are a lot of horrible people, and the internet lets those people say what they really think, and also sometimes they are attention-seeking.]

The best thing about the internet is that anybody can have a voice and post anything about any topic they choose to. The worst thing about the internet is that anybody can have a voice and post anything about any topic they choose to.

Curt


Syd


Jun 11, 2013, 2:27 PM
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What was the result of the survey ?

In my view, in the first couple of year climbing men tend to be stronger and women tend to have better balance and fluidity. Women tend to be better on slabs and men tend to be best on overhangs. There's always individual differences. As experience builds, differences fade.


Gmburns2000


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curt wrote:
drivel wrote:
moose_droppings wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
one of my female friend just came back from hiking to South pole, some 22 days of hauling 150 lbs of stuff in sub-zero temp. Another best female climber friend of mine who attempt to climb K2 in 2010 was killed on G2 in 2011 for a simple mistake and my closest female friend in Yosemite climbs stuff where none of you would even dream to climb so I been around female climbers to see what their capabilities are but, when we talk about whether men and women are equal in outdoors, the true answer IMO is No, they are not equal. We have to compare them on case by case only.

I honestly don't believe Majid is trying to be a sexist nor a troll on the subject. He's merely giving us his honest response on the subject based on perceptions derived from experiences in his life.

The only way to enlighten him and others is with facts that refute his assessment. I hope.

very, very few people are actually "trolls."

most of the horrible shit on the internet are people's actual opinions that they really believe.


[not that I think what majid said this time is particularly repugnant. just throwin out the reminder that the number of people actually plotting to piss people off is super small. its just that there are a lot of horrible people, and the internet lets those people say what they really think, and also sometimes they are attention-seeking.]

The best thing about the internet is that anybody can have a voice and post anything about any topic they choose to. The worst thing about the internet is that anybody can have a voice and post anything about any topic they choose to.

Curt

The second best thing is that what is typed on the internet stays on the internet, and the second worst is thread resurrection.


billcoe_


Jun 18, 2013, 4:00 PM
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jordazz wrote:
Are men and women equal in the outdoors?

WOMEN ON TOP!


amigosandiego


Jun 19, 2013, 7:56 AM
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http://alpinist.com/doc/ALP19/newswire-grand-teton-female-ski-descent#comments


jomagam


Jun 19, 2013, 11:56 AM
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That's like asking if 6'2" and 6'0" men are equal on a basketball court. Statistically the former are better, but you can be super good at any height. The best female climbers are better than 99.99% of male climbers.


amigosandiego


Jun 19, 2013, 12:59 PM
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Years back Lynn Hill wrote an article for R&C or Climbing "I grovel better than Greg Child". Entertaining read. Cant remember if it was a Trango ascent but a fun read. Sorry cant find the article right now or I would share.
All my encounters with LH have always been delightful and gracious. Super Duper Peops IMO.
My experience with female climbers/partners that are out there "really doing it". Ya know the stuff that will make most of the boyzzzzzzz butt pucker and quickly scamper for a "good ole Verm" excuse and head to the tavern to "talk about it".

Mucho respect for the female speicies climber/whatever. AND Female can give birth. whew! That type natural pain threshold in hard to beat.
My two cents but what the hell do I know?

Chef say "boys dont trust anything that bleeds for entire week every month and never dies"

represent ladies!


dr_feelgood


Jun 20, 2013, 12:31 PM
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amigosandiego wrote:
Years back Lynn Hill wrote an article for R&C or Climbing "I grovel better than Greg Child". Entertaining read. Cant remember if it was a Trango ascent but a fun read. Sorry cant find the article right now or I would share.
All my encounters with LH have always been delightful and gracious. Super Duper Peops IMO.
My experience with female climbers/partners that are out there "really doing it". Ya know the stuff that will make most of the boyzzzzzzz butt pucker and quickly scamper for a "good ole Verm" excuse and head to the tavern to "talk about it".

Mucho respect for the female speicies climber/whatever. AND Female can give birth. whew! That type natural pain threshold in hard to beat.
My two cents but what the hell do I know?

Chef say "boys dont trust anything that bleeds for entire week every month and never dies"

represent ladies!

wtf is this shit.


amigosandiego


Jun 21, 2013, 7:24 AM
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Re: [dr_feelgood] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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dr_feelgood wrote:
amigosandiego wrote:
Years back Lynn Hill wrote an article for R&C or Climbing "I grovel better than Greg Child". Entertaining read. Cant remember if it was a Trango ascent but a fun read. Sorry cant find the article right now or I would share.
All my encounters with LH have always been delightful and gracious. Super Duper Peops IMO.
My experience with female climbers/partners that are out there "really doing it". Ya know the stuff that will make most of the boyzzzzzzz butt pucker and quickly scamper for a "good ole Verm" excuse and head to the tavern to "talk about it".

Mucho respect for the female speicies climber/whatever. AND Female can give birth. whew! That type natural pain threshold in hard to beat.
My two cents but what the hell do I know?

Chef say "boys dont trust anything that bleeds for entire week every month and never dies"

represent ladies!

wtf is this shit.

Settle down Napoleon.
Once a decade I'll chime in to the world. No need to get the panties in a wrinkle. Off you go...
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dr_feelgood


Jun 21, 2013, 8:31 PM
Post #106 of 108 (626 views)
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Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 25823

Re: [amigosandiego] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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amigosandiego wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
amigosandiego wrote:
Years back Lynn Hill wrote an article for R&C or Climbing "I grovel better than Greg Child". Entertaining read. Cant remember if it was a Trango ascent but a fun read. Sorry cant find the article right now or I would share.
All my encounters with LH have always been delightful and gracious. Super Duper Peops IMO.
My experience with female climbers/partners that are out there "really doing it". Ya know the stuff that will make most of the boyzzzzzzz butt pucker and quickly scamper for a "good ole Verm" excuse and head to the tavern to "talk about it".

Mucho respect for the female speicies climber/whatever. AND Female can give birth. whew! That type natural pain threshold in hard to beat.
My two cents but what the hell do I know?

Chef say "boys dont trust anything that bleeds for entire week every month and never dies"

represent ladies!

wtf is this shit.

Settle down Napoleon.
Once a decade I'll chime in to the world. No need to get the panties in a wrinkle. Off you go...

I was merely commenting that your particular brand of misogyny is as washed up and as tired as your attempts at humor.


notapplicable


Jun 22, 2013, 5:29 AM
Post #107 of 108 (607 views)
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Registered: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 17766

Re: [dr_feelgood] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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dr_feelgood wrote:
amigosandiego wrote:
Years back Lynn Hill wrote an article for R&C or Climbing "I grovel better than Greg Child". Entertaining read. Cant remember if it was a Trango ascent but a fun read. Sorry cant find the article right now or I would share.
All my encounters with LH have always been delightful and gracious. Super Duper Peops IMO.
My experience with female climbers/partners that are out there "really doing it". Ya know the stuff that will make most of the boyzzzzzzz butt pucker and quickly scamper for a "good ole Verm" excuse and head to the tavern to "talk about it".

Mucho respect for the female speicies climber/whatever. AND Female can give birth. whew! That type natural pain threshold in hard to beat.
My two cents but what the hell do I know?

Chef say "boys dont trust anything that bleeds for entire week every month and never dies"

represent ladies!

wtf is this shit.

Majid v2.0


vichanley


Jun 26, 2013, 4:20 AM
Post #108 of 108 (557 views)
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Registered: Aug 13, 2012
Posts: 4

Re: [jordazz] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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In my opinion, the outdoor arena is a gender equalizer. My wife and I have been climbing for several years and it essentially breaks down like this. She's and extremely athletic woman, as is her sister but in different ways. My wife has far more natural ability than her sister but her sister, while not being up to the 5.10 mark can climb longer than anyone, male or female, than I have ever seen.

We have all taken the same technique classes together and started climbing at the same time. In straight up gym technique I have them both beat. In raw strength we aren't even remotely in the same class. I'm a fairly big dude and she's an extremely petite Latina. In the gym, I surpass them in every area. Outdoors, the gap in our skills is MUCH smaller. A 5.11+ in the gym is outside her current ability but I've seen her CRUSH a 5.11+ I did without breaking a sweat. What I find is that her petite size coupled with her natural athleticism is equal in advantage outdoors as my strength and height is in the indoor gym.


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