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Are men and women equal in the outdoors?
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moose_droppings


Feb 7, 2013, 11:25 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
one of my female friend just came back from hiking to South pole, some 22 days of hauling 150 lbs of stuff in sub-zero temp. Another best female climber friend of mine who attempt to climb K2 in 2010 was killed on G2 in 2011 for a simple mistake and my closest female friend in Yosemite climbs stuff where none of you would even dream to climb so I been around female climbers to see what their capabilities are but, when we talk about whether men and women are equal in outdoors, the true answer IMO is No, they are not equal. We have to compare them on case by case only.

I honestly don't believe Majid is trying to be a sexist nor a troll on the subject. He's merely giving us his honest response on the subject based on perceptions derived from experiences in his life.

The only way to enlighten him and others is with facts that refute his assessment. I hope.


billl7


Feb 7, 2013, 11:33 AM
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Re: [MikeDierson] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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MikeDierson wrote:
The "leader" is not a regulatory title in my country. "Leader" is a mindset. They are comfortable being responsible for the teams security. Anchor building is #1 priority (no bolts here). We say that leader is general and second is soilder. Both are nessary to have victory on the face (war). Leader makes protection decisions but follower must have even stronger balls to have 100% faith in leaders decision making. The summit is reached.
This is my personal view as well - and alludes to one of the reasons I am no longer in the club.


bearbreeder


Feb 7, 2013, 11:40 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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still trying to send that 5.8 majid?

but dont worry ... im sure a REAL MAN like you would have no problem getting your ass kicked by many of the girls out here

they dont bother wasting time pretending how to climb ... they just go out and send Tongue


dr_feelgood


Feb 7, 2013, 1:00 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
you RCers can't even discuss a simple matter here without jumping on each others and I wonder how are you going to help OP ?

For every 10 male climbers who summit an 8000 meter peak, may be 1-2 women do the same. that is a fact and if you do not believe me, visit base camps to see it yourself.

Why wouldn't we believe you?

According to any number of studies that attempted to estimate this, women make up about 20% of climbers. Which would match your numbers pretty well.

And your point is?

one of my female friend just came back from hiking to South pole, some 22 days of hauling 150 lbs of stuff in sub-zero temp. Another best female climber friend of mine who attempt to climb K2 in 2010 was killed on G2 in 2011 for a simple mistake and my closest female friend in Yosemite climbs stuff where none of you would even dream to climb so I been around female climbers to see what their capabilities are but, when we talk about whether men and women are equal in outdoors, the true answer IMO is No, they are not equal. We have to compare them on case by case only.
anecdotes do not equal conclusive evidence.


Gmburns2000


Feb 7, 2013, 1:10 PM
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Re: [granite_grrl] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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granite_grrl wrote:
Gmburns2000 wrote:
billl7 wrote:
A local climbing club has 108 members with 21 folks rated as club "Leaders". They do a mix of single-pitch and multi-pitch climbing.

~37% overall are women
~24% of those with a "Leader" rating are women

Doesn't strike me as obviously discriminatory but some may disagree.

I'm no longer part of the group. But back when I was, for multi-pitch, the hardest thing for women was in finding either like-minded female partners or male partners whose spouse's were okay with husband spending all day outside with another woman.

or single male partners who weren't going to hit on her all day long.

While this does happen, I've had tons of single male partners (while I've been single, dating and married) that haven't hit on me. I'd say that as a rule, guys that take climbing seriously aren't going to hit on their climbing partners.

I believe that. I just think it can be a factor.


majid_sabet


Feb 7, 2013, 3:52 PM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
still trying to send that 5.8 majid?

but dont worry ... im sure a REAL MAN like you would have no problem getting your ass kicked by many of the girls out here

they dont bother wasting time pretending how to climb ... they just go out and send Tongue

I am out of climbing commission for few more months till my hand gets better.


SylviaSmile


Feb 7, 2013, 7:07 PM
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Re: [jordazz] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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jordazz wrote:
Hey I'm studying Outdoor Education at LJMU and I'm writing a research project on gender equality in sport and outdoor adventurous activities. I'd really value your opinion and appreciate if you could take 2 minutes to fill out this confidential online surey
Most of the questions are simple Yes/ No and you only have to answer what you feel comfortable with. I apprichiate that not everybody has the time to do this but I would be extremely grateful to anybody who can help me out.
I believe I have witnessed cases of gender discrimination in the field and would like to see if others have such experiences.
Please note, it is not just women who may feel have been subjected to sexism, again I believe I have been treated unfairly for being a male.
Thank you so much for your time! If anybody would like a copy of the findings or the project upon finishing I would be happy to send anybody a copy around April times.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/RQLJVZX

OH my gosh, this thread . . . well, anyway! There's probably sexism everywhere, but I have never personally experienced it in the context of climbing or really any other outdoor activity. Good luck with your project!


curt


Feb 7, 2013, 7:33 PM
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Re: [camhead] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
Heh, I'd not seen those pics before, Curt!

Really? If you make sure I have your correct email or cell number, I'll send you a high-res version.

Curt


guangzhou


Feb 7, 2013, 9:09 PM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.


guangzhou


Feb 7, 2013, 9:17 PM
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Re: [MikeDierson] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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MikeDierson wrote:
One cannot have claims to not desiered joining "mile high club" on the face. This is not true? Especially with a pretty girl as the second?

Why would you assume she's the second, why not the one leading. I'm sure Maya Gobat does her fair share of leading high on the wall. I even doubt you could second her on her trips up the Nose.


majid_sabet


Feb 7, 2013, 10:55 PM
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Re: [guangzhou] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.


viciado


Feb 8, 2013, 2:29 AM
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Re: [happiegrrrl] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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happiegrrrl wrote:
viciado wrote:
dagibbs wrote:
... I would like rc.com to be a place where women feel comfortable reading and posting.

In the context of the OP... only women?

It was clearly intended to be in context of Olderic's misogynistic opinion, which he purported to be
a factual statement.


Why do you suggest it was about the OP?

I didn't... PM sent.


iknowfear


Feb 8, 2013, 3:15 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
still trying to send that 5.8 majid?

but dont worry ... im sure a REAL MAN like you would have no problem getting your ass kicked by many of the girls out here

they dont bother wasting time pretending how to climb ... they just go out and send Tongue

I am out of climbing commission for few more months till my hand gets better.

Yes, RSI can be a terrible thing...


Partner camhead


Feb 8, 2013, 3:17 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.

Is it because she doesn't wear a burkha? I'll bet it's because she doesn't wear a burkha.


bearbreeder


Feb 8, 2013, 8:38 AM
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Re: [camhead] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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Mahhjeed just cant accept the fact that she climbs ... Period

Unlike him Tongue


lena_chita
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Feb 8, 2013, 8:42 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.


Hmmm... having locals who don't speak highly of her, disqualifies her from having an opinion on her experience as a woman in a climbing world?

In that case, sorry, majid. I think we can scrape up quite a few people who don't speak highly of you. therefore, your opinion is not valid.


majid_sabet


Feb 8, 2013, 8:46 AM
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Re: [lena_chita] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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true , but I do not advertise myself as anyone or stand on anything to be as a reference.


majid_sabet


Feb 8, 2013, 8:49 AM
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Re: [camhead] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.

Is it because she doesn't wear a burkha? I'll bet it's because she doesn't wear a burkha.

All I am saying that they are other women who climb as good or even better than her so why do you think she is such a significant figure in the climbing world ?


mojomonkey


Feb 8, 2013, 8:52 AM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
Mahhjeed just cant accept the fact that she climbs ... Period

Unlike him Tongue

Purposely mangling someone's name, taunting about what grade they climb, and smiley faces in most posts don't really make you look good in your online bickering.

Though maybe now you'll mention how some top climber loves smiley faces and mispronouncing names to heckle, so clearly that is the thing to do because they climb hard! And what do RCers know anyway? Crazy


granite_grrl


Feb 8, 2013, 9:07 AM
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bearbreeder wrote:
Mahhjeed just cant accept the fact that she climbs ... Period

Unlike him Tongue

Reminds me of this classic:
In reply to:
Christ, you guys are pathetic. Do you follow Majid around in real life and shit up his regular conversations?

Two days from now, at the Burger King Drive Thru:

Smile=Majid, Crazy=JakeDbearbreeder, Unimpressed= Unlucky Fast Food Employee

UnsureHello, may I take your order?

SmileYes, I would like a Whopper Jr. with extra onions and rel

Crazy*standing on nearby lawn with a bullhorn*: Jesus Fuck! How stupid are you? Why do I have to always hear about your damn onions! Wear a helmet, seriously, I still love that tired-ass joke after all these years! And for fuck's sake, drive-thru, dude, don't listen to this guy. Make it with regular onions!

Smile *resigned, this obviously happens a lot*: Please add those onions. They are often tasty and contain folic acid, an important nutrient.

Unimpressed:That'll 2.34, please drive around.

Crazy: Shit! I can't believe that guy is giving him the onions. I'm pissed, I better call my buddies so they can beat Majid to his house and mock him while he eats.

Smile*pulls out green dry erase marker, draws circle around Value Combo #1 with connecting arrow to breakfast menu hashbrowns, then drives around to the window*

Crazy*shits pants with rage*

Smiley faces and everything!


lena_chita
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Feb 8, 2013, 9:27 AM
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Re: [SylviaSmile] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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SylviaSmile wrote:
OH my gosh, this thread . . . well, anyway! There's probably sexism everywhere, but I have never personally experienced it in the context of climbing or really any other outdoor activity. Good luck with your project!

I can't say that I experienced MORE sexism in the climbing community, or in an "outdoor activity", than I have experienced it in general life. But I have certainly experienced it in climbing.

Have you never heard people use terms for female genitalia, or call their male friends "girl" as a way to shame or motivate them? "Don't be a pussy, bro, commit to it! You can do it!" That is an example of sexism.

Making assumption about someone's abilities based on gender-- that is sexism, too.

You had an example from this very thread (the assumption that a "pretty girl" would, of course, be seconding:

MikeDierson wrote:
One cannot have claims to not desiered joining "mile high club" on the face. This is not true? Especially with a pretty girl as the second?

Some real-life examples:

Example 1: the crag is empty. I just climbed, and my (male) partner, who is not feeling the best decides to toprope the climb I led. He is having a hard time at the bottom 1/3rd of the climb when another guy walks in. Looks at the guy climbing, looks at me, looks around, finally asks me: who put the rope up? When I tell him that I did, he does a double-take, regroups, and proceeds with "oh, wow, you must be really strong. Wow, good for you! This climb looks amazing! I don't think I could do it, but someday... "

The guy was not rude to me. In fact, he was really complimentary. BUT, if the situation were reversed, a female climber struggling on a toprope, with a male belaying her, and the crag otherwise empty, would the guy have looked beyond the belaying male for SOMEONE who had led this route? Likely not. Hence-- this is an example of a sexist attitude, even though it was not an act of rudeness directed at me, it clearly shows that the guy has underlying assumptions about men and women climbers

Example 2: I just finished climbing. The rope is up. The crag in empty. My female partner and I are having a leisurely morning. This wall has, in order: 5.10b, 5.9, 5.10d, 5.10b, 5.11d, 5.11d. We hear a large group walking in from a long way off, because they are speaking loudly. The guy who must be the most experienced one in the group says something along the lines of: so, there is a 5.9 there, and a 10b, and I bet we can set the toprope up on the 10d that is next to the 5.9 from the anchors of 5.9...

Finally, the group walks in. The guy in front has a guidebook in his hands, but when he sees us, he stops and says, oh, this must be the 5.9! No, I tell him, the 5.9 is over there. Oh, he says, then this is the 5.10b? (pointing at our rope). No, I tell him, the .10b is the first one on the left, and the 4th one. This is .11d. Again, a double-take from the guy: so, uh, did you climb it? Wow!

The climb in question does NOT look anything like a 5.9, In fact, the start of this climb, while not the crux, looks more intimidating than it is. So the only reason the guy assumed this climb was a 5.9 was... what, exactly? The fact that this is the only rope up, and there are two "girls" underneath it, so of course they must be on the easiest climb!


majid_sabet


Feb 8, 2013, 9:49 AM
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Re: [camhead] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.

Is it because she doesn't wear a burkha? I'll bet it's because she doesn't wear a burkha.

I'll take any Burkha girl over a non-Burkha cause under the burkha,you got another FA to discover


bearbreeder


Feb 8, 2013, 10:20 AM
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Re: [mojomonkey] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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mojomonkey wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:

Purposely mangling someone's name, taunting about what grade they climb, and smiley faces in most posts don't really make you look good in your online bickering.

Though maybe now you'll mention how some top climber loves smiley faces and mispronouncing names to heckle, so clearly that is the thing to do because they climb hard! And what do RCers know anyway? Crazy

No im just bashing the mahhhjeed who doesnt climb, yet puts down lynn hill who has done more to advance climbing than hell ever do in his wet dreams ... Or any RC er on this thread for that matter

Not that the mahhhjeed actually had the ability to lead even moderate climbs, before proclaiming interesting "facts" about female climbers ...

But thats all a ok ... Because at RC were thise who cant who laugh at those who can and do Tongue


Partner macherry


Feb 8, 2013, 11:32 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Are men and women equal in the outdoors? [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
camhead wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
interesting topic and as far as you can go back in time, IMO,men are like a diesel engine, they can run 30 days non-stop where women have to take 10 days off every month for maintenance check up

Maybe we should ask Lynn Hill her opinion on this.

you should but I know other locals who don't highly speak of her.

Is it because she doesn't wear a burkha? I'll bet it's because she doesn't wear a burkha.

I'll take any Burkha girl over a non-Burkha cause under the burkha,you got another FA to discover

its just doesn't stop


this thread is one big example

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