Spectra Do’s and Don’ts

Don’t
Use a Spectra sling as an
impromptu “daisy chain.”
Lead above a Spectra (or nylon) daisy chain clipped to a piece below you.
Use knotted Spectra slings.
Do
Frequently check Spectra slings, including those on your cams, for wear.
Use a triple fisherman’s knot to tie Spectra cord.

Nylon Versus Spectra

Nylon Pros
Relatively inexpensive
Stretches
Holds knots
Higher melting point than Spectra
Holds up to repeated flexing better than Spectra
Great “all-around” material

Nylon Cons
Absorbs more water
Susceptible to UV
degradation
Heavier and bulkier
than Spectra

Spectra Pros
Three times stronger by weight than nylon
Very lightweight
Low bulk
Absorbs little to no water
Highly abrasion- and
cut-resistant

Spectra cons
Doesn’t stretch
Doesn’t hold knots
Expensive
Low melting point

I thought this was a good article from R&I on the benefits of each.

It seems the literature continues to show that spectra is probably more of a specialty piece where weight and / or dry slings matter, and nylon is probably more of an everyday-use product.

The summary of the article (bold-type mine):

i dont worry about it ...

i use dyneema

so do tons of my partners who actually climb ...

and i also use nylon

are we all the walking dead ... since we arent using only RC approved gear

Is it possible for you to post a reply without belittling the site or it's users?

But I will agree that covers the basics in a noob-friendly way.

dya feel belitted mouse droppings ?

funny that RCers are going ga ga over dyneema, when in the real world out here, people just use it ...

it isnt whats killing em

I'm not feeling belittled personally.

You seen to have experience and your full of good information, but your arrogance and superiority complex dilute your message. Seems a waste.


Edited to add.

its amazing that youre complaining about belittled while not feeling belittled

but have no problem with comments made by a certain member about how women arent really that good climbers and something about burqas

sounds very RC like

theres plenty of good people on RC ... but the simple fact is that there are tons of threads that end up as a "if you dont climb my way, do it my way, use my gear, youre gonna die and yr stoooopid" ...

shall i dig up the old "no one should use autoblock mode" threads for your viewing pleasure

theres plenty of good people on RC ... but the simple fact is that there are tons of threads that end up as a "if you dont climb my way, do it my way, use my gear, youre gonna die and yr stoooopid" ...

I'm complaining about your constant belittling of this site and some of the people you direct it at.

I know that Majid isn't from this country and I don't know of his religion, so no, I'm not going to judge that, since after all this is a rock climbing site.

I agree that there is misinformation floating around, but judging by the stars of a lot of your posts, maybe berating people isn't the best way to be part of the solution you so vehemently detest about this site.

Just give em the straight facts, nuff said.

how many people here would refuse to climb with these ...

or these

FYI: Metolius uses their "Monster Sling" webbing, a blend of nylon (64%) and Dyneema (36%).

I personally chose to use the BW Titan slings which has a similar blend of both nylon and Spectra for the best of both worlds.

Carry on...

most "dyneema" slings are a mix ... just a matter of numbers ...

petzl even used dyneema now for the tie in points of their new harness ...

The big thing for me is how long dyneema lasts. I can't be replacing slings every three years. That adds up.

My choice is nylon because it better represents my usage.

I also feel that individual needs are what matter here.

If I were pushing the edge of my climbing ability, where I was really concerned about the weight of my climbing gear, and replacement cost did not matter ... I'd probably carry more dyneema/spectra and my lead ropes would lighter weight (i.e., smaller diameter).

But I'm not. So I've always carried nylon slings.
Bill L

I also feel that individual needs are what matter here.

If I were pushing the edge of my climbing ability, where I was really concerned about the weight of my climbing gear, and replacement cost did not matter ... I'd probably carry more dyneema/spectra and my lead ropes would lighter weight (i.e., smaller diameter).

But I'm not. So I've always carried nylon slings.
Bill L

The big thing for me is how long dyneema lasts. I can't be replacing slings every three years. That adds up.

My choice is nylon because it better represents my usage.

For me it is not so much a matter of weight as it is bulk. The bulk of 15 nylon runners is noticeably more than that of skinny dyneema.

i replace all my slings every 3-4 years of active climbing regardless of material

ask yourself this ...

do you resling your dyneema slinged cams every 3 years? ... stuff like mastercams, UL TCUs/PC, Zeros, newer aliens, etc ...

if you "worry" about dyneema then you should ... cams are every day use items where the sling runs against other cams when racked, and against edges, rocks, cracks when placed and fallen on ... but in reality no one does in 3 years

heres a fairly common harness line ..... guess what the BELAY loops, an extremely high wear area, is made out of

[image]http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/images/Safe-Tech-Trad-lrg.jpg[/image]

people use whatever they want ... i use dyneema every day ... but also nylon which i can cheaply leave for bailing, or use as aiders for the occasional aid move ...

it is fairly hilarious when someone in the bluffs talks loudly about the deadly dyneema, yet their rack is full of dyneema slinged cams

For me it is not so much a matter of weight as it is bulk. The bulk of 15 nylon runners is noticeably more than that of skinny dyneema.

Also, I rarely clip directly to the cam. I prefer to extend it, for various reasons depending on the circumstances that are mostly dictated by where and the type of routes I climb. So even if they had dyneema slings, I wouldn't use them much except to clip to my harness.

The one incident of this sort I know of was a factor-2 fall by a climber on a nylon quickdraw that the nylon withstood but which broke one of the carabiners. This was more like a factor 3 fall

How can you exceed 2? Was he solo-ing and just happened to clip into something while he was falling? Was he clipped into a vertical rope way above an a bolt?

Also, I rarely clip directly to the cam. I prefer to extend it, for various reasons depending on the circumstances that are mostly dictated by where and the type of routes I climb. So even if they had dyneema slings, I wouldn't use them much except to clip to my harness.

Then how are you accomplishing extending if you're not clipping into the cam sling?

Then how are you accomplishing extending if you're not clipping into the cam sling?

How can you exceed 2? Was he solo-ing and just happened to clip into something while he was falling? Was he clipped into a vertical rope way above an a bolt?

One of the rope companies recreated the incident and the force was something like 27kN.

Why ludicrous? No one said the climber in question was subjected to 27 kN. .

Which is a ludicrous notion. Harnesses are only required to hold 15kN, and the human body cannot withstand more than 12kN (some sources say 10kN). If he was subjected to 27kN, I strongly doubt his back would be in one piece. What very likely happened is the gate on one of the carabiners opened, possibly due to flutter, and the actual force was limited to the failure strength of the failed biner in the open gate position.

While the minimum requirements for harnesses is 15kN all manufacturers make them stronger. I have one somewhere rated to 25kN and can well believe my work harness is stronger than that.

Your knowledge of survivable g-forces is woeful, the 12kN standard is for long-period accelerations without injury, John Stapp survived 46.2g for over a second. For shorter periods which falling on quickdraws would certainly be we can look at:-

Kenny Brack (Indy Car) recorded 214g
David Purley (F1) calculated 180g
Robert Kubica (FI) recorded 75g

While all of these are in the more advantageous body position they show that your contention "the human body cannot withstand more than 12kN (some sources say 10kN)" is clearly rubbish and your proposal that the testers knew nothing clearly also worthless.

Jim
Are you comparing apples to apples when you use race car drivers and climbers? There are a lot of different dynamics when you introduce a car seat and a harness that spread forces out over a larger area of the body etc. I am not doubting your expertise just trying to understand. Like US Navy I have read that forces around 15K in a climbing harness produces some dire results on the human body. Not necessarily death but close. With a climbing harness a lot of the force will be applied to the back of the spine which will probably not happen in a car. Please expand on your sources and thoughts using simple terms for those of us who are not as educated in the physics of impact.
Thanks, I always enjoy your posts.
David

U. S. ejection catapult specifications necessary to optimize chances of safe escape from aircraft were accurately defined between 1945 and 1947. Ames (1947-1948), aware of the increased
dynamic overshooting that occurs with high onset rates, cautioned during that period that such
overshoot would be negligible with onset rates below 200 G/sec. In 1947, ejection seat equipment
developed by the Army Air Forces and the Ordnance Department provided a terminal velocity
of 60 ft/sec with a maximum of 14-16 G on the subject at a rate of 175 to 200 G/sec.

So where does Petzl's new Spirit dogbones - made from Polyester - fit into all of this?

http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Climbing/Carabiners/Quickdraws/PRD~5031-654/petzl-spirit-express-quickdraw.jsp