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RickGoodwin


Jul 6, 2013, 6:36 AM
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potreroed


Jul 6, 2013, 12:51 PM
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Re: [RickGoodwin] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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No, have never had an experience like that. But I'll admit that I'll watch a climber on a route until he takes a hang and then I'm no longer interested in watching.


lena_chita
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Jul 6, 2013, 12:54 PM
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Re: [RickGoodwin] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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No, I have not had an experience like this. However, I have walked away from areas occupied by groups that seemed like way too much clusterfuck in the making.

I am not saying that this is what was going on in your case, but one person's "sweet whipper" is another person's "holly shit, this guy came within an inch of being carried away on a stretcher, and he is whooping with joy and doesn't seem to realize it, and neither does his belayer, who only seems to have caught him by sheer dumb luck".

When you encounter such situation, where it doesn't seem like a simple short advice or correction would help remedy the situation, when a group of people behaves obnoxiously and doesn't seem to realize it, then people do tend to withdraw or leave.

Again, not saying that this was the case in your situation. Arrogant assholes happen in every walk of life, and climbing is no exception.


RickGoodwin


Jul 6, 2013, 1:56 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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well no, none of my group was acting stupid or anything of the sort. all of us know what were doing and we were very friendly. your thoughts on my whipper could have been it though.. it looked bad from the ground but it wasnt bad at all. they could have thought what you said and that makes me think better of them. i'll go with that.


sonso45


Jul 7, 2013, 8:30 AM
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Re: [RickGoodwin] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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Why did your neighbors consider "some people" arrogant F..ks? Did they get shunned by the same group of climbers?

Lena chita seems to have hit the nail on the head. There is room for everyone and sometimes we scare ourselves and others. I'm sure people have walked away from me and my friends at some time.

I try to be nice to everyone and hope it is reciprocated. But you can't win them all. Climb safe.


Kartessa


Jul 7, 2013, 9:26 AM
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RickGoodwin wrote:
Alright so i was at summersville at the long wall. There was a group already there and we made friends quickly.. well after a while, I gear up to climb a 5.9 (forget the name). Well i couldnt finish the route.. my body was just crushed from 3 days prior of climbing from 9 am till about 7. i took a pretty sweet whipper on that route too. but after I was lowered to the ground the group we were talking to completely shunned us after that. It was so crazy, i couldnt understand what the deal was till our neighbors at the campsite (AAC) told us about some climbers being arrogant fucks.

Sorta... there's is someone I met from this forum and they climbed a much higher grade than me.

This wasn't an issue when I was driving their ass to the Red, it wasn't an issue when they needed me to set their tent up for them, wasn't even an issue when they didnt know how to operate their stove. They didn't seem to have a problem with me when they asked me to pick up groceries in town since I was going anyway.

However, once the subject of grades came up, I was a full 2 points below them. This meant that she had to find another partner to climb with - since neither douchewad bitchface or her new partner had a vehicle, I was good enough to be told I should drive them to the crag, but I wouldn't get any climbing in because I'm not at their level and her climbing is serious business.

Since I opted not to play taxi to someone who still hadn't paid for gas for the 10hr drive down, I was shunned for the rest of the time I was there... Quite comical to be having awesome conversations and connections with the other 99% of people I met and just the one dumbass giving the death glare every time I was within sight.


chadnsc


Jul 7, 2013, 10:29 AM
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Re: [Kartessa] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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Hehehe, I think I know who you're talking about. Crazy


RickGoodwin


Jul 7, 2013, 10:36 AM
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lol wow yours is worse than mine! thats just an obvious slap in the face by a selfish person.. sorry to hear that. i am always nice to everyone. me and my gf are always eager to make friends and share unique experiences.


notapplicable


Jul 7, 2013, 10:49 AM
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Kartessa wrote:
RickGoodwin wrote:
Alright so i was at summersville at the long wall. There was a group already there and we made friends quickly.. well after a while, I gear up to climb a 5.9 (forget the name). Well i couldnt finish the route.. my body was just crushed from 3 days prior of climbing from 9 am till about 7. i took a pretty sweet whipper on that route too. but after I was lowered to the ground the group we were talking to completely shunned us after that. It was so crazy, i couldnt understand what the deal was till our neighbors at the campsite (AAC) told us about some climbers being arrogant fucks.

Sorta... there's is someone I met from this forum and they climbed a much higher grade than me.

This wasn't an issue when I was driving their ass to the Red, it wasn't an issue when they needed me to set their tent up for them, wasn't even an issue when they didnt know how to operate their stove. They didn't seem to have a problem with me when they asked me to pick up groceries in town since I was going anyway.

However, once the subject of grades came up, I was a full 2 points below them. This meant that she had to find another partner to climb with - since neither douchewad bitchface or her new partner had a vehicle, I was good enough to be told I should drive them to the crag, but I wouldn't get any climbing in because I'm not at their level and her climbing is serious business.

Since I opted not to play taxi to someone who still hadn't paid for gas for the 10hr drive down, I was shunned for the rest of the time I was there... Quite comical to be having awesome conversations and connections with the other 99% of people I met and just the one dumbass giving the death glare every time I was within sight.

That's pretty silly. The beauty of single pitch climbing is, as long as you're willing to lead, any two people can partner up without slowing one another down. Certain crags may be out of the question but there are plenty of crags that have a really solid mix of climbs.

In the loose affiliation of climbers I belong too, people max out everywhere from .10a to .13b on lead and its rarely a problem. If someone is projecting it can require some compromise but it is a "partnership" after all.


Kartessa


Jul 7, 2013, 10:49 AM
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chadnsc wrote:
Hehehe, I think I know who you're talking about. Crazy

I think you do... wondering if I should post her name, email and phone number with a "For a good time call"


notapplicable


Jul 7, 2013, 10:54 AM
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Oh and you should have stuck around till I got there. I would have climbed with your weakmo ass.

I only judge people on there ability to cook me food after a day of ropegunning, not there ability to TR my sic gnar projects. I'm a nice guy like that.


meanandugly


Jul 7, 2013, 10:54 AM
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Re: [Kartessa] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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I had a similar situation with a climber who knew what grades I climbed. I could clean their routes if I was hang dogging and it was agreed upon that I would clean their routes and they would clean mine. We drove to the New and I covered the gas on the way there and they were going to cover it on the way back. Unknown to me they had plans to meet another climber there, more up to their level and I was left to try and find a partner to climb with. I said F-THAT and packed up my rack (which they wanted to use) all of the camping gear (all mine including the sleeping bag they had borrowed from me) and hauled my ass to NH and solo'ed in Huntington. It was one of best trips. I never talked to them again, but I know they gave up climbing and are now about 100lbs over weight.


shotwell


Jul 7, 2013, 11:39 AM
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Re: [lena_chita] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
No, I have not had an experience like this. However, I have walked away from areas occupied by groups that seemed like way too much clusterfuck in the making.

I am not saying that this is what was going on in your case, but one person's "sweet whipper" is another person's "holly shit, this guy came within an inch of being carried away on a stretcher, and he is whooping with joy and doesn't seem to realize it, and neither does his belayer, who only seems to have caught him by sheer dumb luck".

When you encounter such situation, where it doesn't seem like a simple short advice or correction would help remedy the situation, when a group of people behaves obnoxiously and doesn't seem to realize it, then people do tend to withdraw or leave.

Again, not saying that this was the case in your situation. Arrogant assholes happen in every walk of life, and climbing is no exception.

You know, I did this one time. I still regret it to this day.

My wife and I were climbing at Solar Collector in the Red, just trying to get warmed up for the day so we could move over to the Gold Coast. We were both a little sketched out by the party next to us who seemed to be distracted and having a lot of difficulty communicating. The belaying wasn't perfect, as is usual in the Red. We assumed they were relatively new and we had been helping a whole lot of people stay safe through the course of the last month. I even had to ask a guy if he was thinking about tying in while he was clipping the first bolt on the day before. As usual, they were offended I said something.

This was our last trip until the Fall, so we kept out heads down and our mouths shut. We even walked over to the other side of the crag. This party left and went to the Dark Side. Not an hour later we learned of the accident in this party.

Not saying that everyone has to say something, but it will always be right for me to speak up when people are sketchy. A lot of people think I'm a dick at the crag, but I'm really just trying to make sure that I never feel like I could have prevented an accident again. No one ever really gives a shit; I always get ignored. But I can't just let it go.


bearbreeder


Jul 7, 2013, 1:35 PM
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Re: [RickGoodwin] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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RickGoodwin wrote:
Alright so i was at summersville at the long wall. There was a group already there and we made friends quickly.. well after a while, I gear up to climb a 5.9 (forget the name). Well i couldnt finish the route.. my body was just crushed from 3 days prior of climbing from 9 am till about 7. i took a pretty sweet whipper on that route too. but after I was lowered to the ground the group we were talking to completely shunned us after that. It was so crazy, i couldnt understand what the deal was till our neighbors at the campsite (AAC) told us about some climbers being arrogant fucks.


there are alot of people who are scared of their own shadow ... many of them simply top rope moderates all day and/or lead easy stuff with double racks

whenever someone climbs hard or takes whippers ... theyll get all upset, call you UNSAFE, say you are arrogant, etc ...

if you climb enough youll see these people around ... the trick to avoiding them is simpy to climb hard stuff

the funny thing about climbing is that those that climb the "hard" stuff, climb the long stuff, and climb every day ... usually arent those posturing at the crag ...

its those that cant who try to compensate by putting down those that can and do ...

and more often than not its newer climbs, or those with big groups

no doubt youll see many of em on RC

Tongue


bearbreeder


Jul 7, 2013, 1:40 PM
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Kartessa wrote:

Sorta... there's is someone I met from this forum and they climbed a much higher grade than me.

This wasn't an issue when I was driving their ass to the Red, it wasn't an issue when they needed me to set their tent up for them, wasn't even an issue when they didnt know how to operate their stove. They didn't seem to have a problem with me when they asked me to pick up groceries in town since I was going anyway.

However, once the subject of grades came up, I was a full 2 points below them. This meant that she had to find another partner to climb with - since neither douchewad bitchface or her new partner had a vehicle, I was good enough to be told I should drive them to the crag, but I wouldn't get any climbing in because I'm not at their level and her climbing is serious business.

Since I opted not to play taxi to someone who still hadn't paid for gas for the 10hr drive down, I was shunned for the rest of the time I was there... Quite comical to be having awesome conversations and connections with the other 99% of people I met and just the one dumbass giving the death glare every time I was within sight.

first rule of road trips ...

dont go with someone who climbs much easier or harder than you ...

the "better" climber will be bored as hell ... and the "lesser" climber will be struggling on stuff all the time

many crags that the better climber will want to go to wont have stuff that the lesser climber can lead

and dont even talk about multi ... nothing kills a climbing trip than having to haul someone up 10+ pitches

find someone within a grade of you for long trips ...

its that simple

Tongue


lena_chita
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Jul 7, 2013, 3:21 PM
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Re: [shotwell] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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shotwell wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
No, I have not had an experience like this. However, I have walked away from areas occupied by groups that seemed like way too much clusterfuck in the making.

I am not saying that this is what was going on in your case, but one person's "sweet whipper" is another person's "holly shit, this guy came within an inch of being carried away on a stretcher, and he is whooping with joy and doesn't seem to realize it, and neither does his belayer, who only seems to have caught him by sheer dumb luck".

When you encounter such situation, where it doesn't seem like a simple short advice or correction would help remedy the situation, when a group of people behaves obnoxiously and doesn't seem to realize it, then people do tend to withdraw or leave.

Again, not saying that this was the case in your situation. Arrogant assholes happen in every walk of life, and climbing is no exception.

You know, I did this one time. I still regret it to this day.

My wife and I were climbing at Solar Collector in the Red, just trying to get warmed up for the day so we could move over to the Gold Coast. We were both a little sketched out by the party next to us who seemed to be distracted and having a lot of difficulty communicating. The belaying wasn't perfect, as is usual in the Red. We assumed they were relatively new and we had been helping a whole lot of people stay safe through the course of the last month. I even had to ask a guy if he was thinking about tying in while he was clipping the first bolt on the day before. As usual, they were offended I said something.

This was our last trip until the Fall, so we kept out heads down and our mouths shut. We even walked over to the other side of the crag. This party left and went to the Dark Side. Not an hour later we learned of the accident in this party.

Not saying that everyone has to say something, but it will always be right for me to speak up when people are sketchy. A lot of people think I'm a dick at the crag, but I'm really just trying to make sure that I never feel like I could have prevented an accident again. No one ever really gives a shit; I always get ignored. But I can't just let it go.

I hope you are not talking about the Darkside accident that i am thinking of. I don't think so, bc I don't think there was warmup at Solar Collector, but it is pretty sad that there has been more than one accident at the same crag by now.


I have struggled with saying something vs. not saying something. A lot of times, you can tell ow your comment would be received even before you open your mouth...

If it is a simple thing, e.g.:

--hey, your knot is not finished!
--hey, your rope end is not on the ground!
--hey, you are standing way too far from the wall, he is going to drag you in if he falls.
--hey guys, you really should have the directionals if you want to toprope this route.
--hey, keep him tight, there is a lot of rope stretch when you are starting to toprope a long route like that

that's pretty simple and if I see something like that I would say it. (And actually have said all of the above, some things on more than one occasion)

But sometimes it is just too much. It feels like you would have to actually take people under your wing and spend hours explaining things if you were to do a thorough job, and at that point it is just not possible for me.


Kartessa


Jul 7, 2013, 3:41 PM
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bearbreeder wrote:
Kartessa wrote:

Sorta... there's is someone I met from this forum and they climbed a much higher grade than me.

This wasn't an issue when I was driving their ass to the Red, it wasn't an issue when they needed me to set their tent up for them, wasn't even an issue when they didnt know how to operate their stove. They didn't seem to have a problem with me when they asked me to pick up groceries in town since I was going anyway.

However, once the subject of grades came up, I was a full 2 points below them. This meant that she had to find another partner to climb with - since neither douchewad bitchface or her new partner had a vehicle, I was good enough to be told I should drive them to the crag, but I wouldn't get any climbing in because I'm not at their level and her climbing is serious business.

Since I opted not to play taxi to someone who still hadn't paid for gas for the 10hr drive down, I was shunned for the rest of the time I was there... Quite comical to be having awesome conversations and connections with the other 99% of people I met and just the one dumbass giving the death glare every time I was within sight.

first rule of road trips ...

dont go with someone who climbs much easier or harder than you ...

the "better" climber will be bored as hell ... and the "lesser" climber will be struggling on stuff all the time

many crags that the better climber will want to go to wont have stuff that the lesser climber can lead

and dont even talk about multi ... nothing kills a climbing trip than having to haul someone up 10+ pitches

find someone within a grade of you for long trips ...

its that simple

Tongue

I disagree.

You get your day of 5.13 single-pitch wankery where I'll belay for hours on end on your project, you put up a toprope on an 11 for me to practice hard moves on while you're between burns.

The next day we'll go do a day of easy stuff while you rest up for your redpoint tomorrow. We do 15 pitches on a 5.6 just for the joy of it.

After that we meet some people split up for a day or two and climb again.

Holy shit, everybody wins! No need to be a douchebro just to prove you're better at a very (in the grand scheme of life) insignificant skill than someone else.


Kartessa


Jul 7, 2013, 3:42 PM
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notapplicable wrote:
Oh and you should have stuck around till I got there. I would have climbed with your weakmo ass.

I only judge people on there ability to cook me food after a day of ropegunning, not there ability to TR my sic gnar projects. I'm a nice guy like that.


I should have waited... I'm an awesome cook


shotwell


Jul 7, 2013, 4:27 PM
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lena_chita wrote:
shotwell wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
No, I have not had an experience like this. However, I have walked away from areas occupied by groups that seemed like way too much clusterfuck in the making.

I am not saying that this is what was going on in your case, but one person's "sweet whipper" is another person's "holly shit, this guy came within an inch of being carried away on a stretcher, and he is whooping with joy and doesn't seem to realize it, and neither does his belayer, who only seems to have caught him by sheer dumb luck".

When you encounter such situation, where it doesn't seem like a simple short advice or correction would help remedy the situation, when a group of people behaves obnoxiously and doesn't seem to realize it, then people do tend to withdraw or leave.

Again, not saying that this was the case in your situation. Arrogant assholes happen in every walk of life, and climbing is no exception.

You know, I did this one time. I still regret it to this day.

My wife and I were climbing at Solar Collector in the Red, just trying to get warmed up for the day so we could move over to the Gold Coast. We were both a little sketched out by the party next to us who seemed to be distracted and having a lot of difficulty communicating. The belaying wasn't perfect, as is usual in the Red. We assumed they were relatively new and we had been helping a whole lot of people stay safe through the course of the last month. I even had to ask a guy if he was thinking about tying in while he was clipping the first bolt on the day before. As usual, they were offended I said something.

This was our last trip until the Fall, so we kept out heads down and our mouths shut. We even walked over to the other side of the crag. This party left and went to the Dark Side. Not an hour later we learned of the accident in this party.

Not saying that everyone has to say something, but it will always be right for me to speak up when people are sketchy. A lot of people think I'm a dick at the crag, but I'm really just trying to make sure that I never feel like I could have prevented an accident again. No one ever really gives a shit; I always get ignored. But I can't just let it go.

I hope you are not talking about the Darkside accident that i am thinking of. I don't think so, bc I don't think there was warmup at Solar Collector, but it is pretty sad that there has been more than one accident at the same crag by now.


I have struggled with saying something vs. not saying something. A lot of times, you can tell ow your comment would be received even before you open your mouth...

If it is a simple thing, e.g.:

--hey, your knot is not finished!
--hey, your rope end is not on the ground!
--hey, you are standing way too far from the wall, he is going to drag you in if he falls.
--hey guys, you really should have the directionals if you want to toprope this route.
--hey, keep him tight, there is a lot of rope stretch when you are starting to toprope a long route like that

that's pretty simple and if I see something like that I would say it. (And actually have said all of the above, some things on more than one occasion)

But sometimes it is just too much. It feels like you would have to actually take people under your wing and spend hours explaining things if you were to do a thorough job, and at that point it is just not possible for me.

It is the accident you are thinking of. We really thought that the belaying and level of distraction was sketchy. I had been blown off one too many times recently and didn't feel like dealing with it for once. Never again.


bearbreeder


Jul 7, 2013, 4:34 PM
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Kartessa wrote:

I disagree.

You get your day of 5.13 single-pitch wankery where I'll belay for hours on end on your project, you put up a toprope on an 11 for me to practice hard moves on while you're between burns.

The next day we'll go do a day of easy stuff while you rest up for your redpoint tomorrow. We do 15 pitches on a 5.6 just for the joy of it.

After that we meet some people split up for a day or two and climb again.

Holy shit, everybody wins! No need to be a douchebro just to prove you're better at a very (in the grand scheme of life) insignificant skill than someone else.

on road trips people often have objectives ... and those objectives often involve doing certain climbs at certain levels

especially on multi, which is a goal for many roadtrips to places like yos, squamish, the rockies ... if you want to do a multi near your limit ... the person needs to be able to follow quickly and efficiently and not hangdog ... its simply not safe on long multi to not be able to do the climb decently ... youll be wasting time increasing the objective risks, youll be making it a gongshow for everyone else, and there are simply places even following where you cant fall safely

for cragging roadtrips ... youll be limiting yourself to crags that have easy stuff for people to warm up on and lead ... many places i know with the "best" hard sport climbing generally have most of the climbs in the "harder" range ... you simply cant go to those crags anymore as your climber cant make it up

usually those who climb at a good level want to push themselves as hard as they can ... and if yr spending the money on a road trip, you want to do certain climbs and not have a partner that limits you as to what you can do

cragging at your local crag is a bit different as you know youll have many days to take your time and climb ... also with local partners youll take up "lesser" ones to train em up for the longer term

one of the more common complaints and reasons for not doing roadtrips again with some people is because their climbing levels dont match

i dont expect people who climb much harder than me to take me on road trips ... and i expect you to lead at a certain level on a road trip ... never had an issue with any roadtrip which had that expectation stated up front

Wink


lena_chita
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Jul 7, 2013, 4:41 PM
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Re: [Kartessa] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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Kartessa wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
Kartessa wrote:

Sorta... there's is someone I met from this forum and they climbed a much higher grade than me.

This wasn't an issue when I was driving their ass to the Red, it wasn't an issue when they needed me to set their tent up for them, wasn't even an issue when they didnt know how to operate their stove. They didn't seem to have a problem with me when they asked me to pick up groceries in town since I was going anyway.

However, once the subject of grades came up, I was a full 2 points below them. This meant that she had to find another partner to climb with - since neither douchewad bitchface or her new partner had a vehicle, I was good enough to be told I should drive them to the crag, but I wouldn't get any climbing in because I'm not at their level and her climbing is serious business.

Since I opted not to play taxi to someone who still hadn't paid for gas for the 10hr drive down, I was shunned for the rest of the time I was there... Quite comical to be having awesome conversations and connections with the other 99% of people I met and just the one dumbass giving the death glare every time I was within sight.

first rule of road trips ...

dont go with someone who climbs much easier or harder than you ...

the "better" climber will be bored as hell ... and the "lesser" climber will be struggling on stuff all the time

many crags that the better climber will want to go to wont have stuff that the lesser climber can lead

and dont even talk about multi ... nothing kills a climbing trip than having to haul someone up 10+ pitches

find someone within a grade of you for long trips ...

its that simple

Tongue

I disagree.

You get your day of 5.13 single-pitch wankery where I'll belay for hours on end on your project, you put up a toprope on an 11 for me to practice hard moves on while you're between burns.

The next day we'll go do a day of easy stuff while you rest up for your redpoint tomorrow. We do 15 pitches on a 5.6 just for the joy of it.

After that we meet some people split up for a day or two and climb again.

Holy shit, everybody wins! No need to be a douchebro just to prove you're better at a very (in the grand scheme of life) insignificant skill than someone else.

Life is definitely easier if two partners climb comparable grades, but I agree, for single-pitch sport cragging it is entirely workable with any grade combination-- as long as there is desire to work together.

For example, this spring i went on a week-long trip with a partner whose climbing ability doesn't mesh well with mine. The logistics of climbing were very simple and the trip was very enjoyable. We were on staggered 2on/1off schedule, so it meant that one day it was my choice of a crag, he was just belaying. Then it was his choice of the crag, I was just belaying. And then it was a compromise choice of a crag that worked for both of us.

But on the flip side, this was a trip without a major goal. It was a trip to check out a new climbing area, so everything was new and fun, regardless of the grades.

If you have a goal to work/redpoint specific routes, and your climbing partner does not have the same goal, and cannot climb/is not interested in climbing anything at the area where your "project" is located, and the trip is relatively short (say, a week), this is where widely disparate grades start to affect the partner harmony.


Kartessa


Jul 7, 2013, 6:40 PM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
Kartessa wrote:

I disagree.

You get your day of 5.13 single-pitch wankery where I'll belay for hours on end on your project, you put up a toprope on an 11 for me to practice hard moves on while you're between burns.

The next day we'll go do a day of easy stuff while you rest up for your redpoint tomorrow. We do 15 pitches on a 5.6 just for the joy of it.

After that we meet some people split up for a day or two and climb again.

Holy shit, everybody wins! No need to be a douchebro just to prove you're better at a very (in the grand scheme of life) insignificant skill than someone else.

on road trips people often have objectives ... and those objectives often involve doing certain climbs at certain levels

especially on multi, which is a goal for many roadtrips to places like yos, squamish, the rockies ... if you want to do a multi near your limit ... the person needs to be able to follow quickly and efficiently and not hangdog ... its simply not safe on long multi to not be able to do the climb decently ... youll be wasting time increasing the objective risks, youll be making it a gongshow for everyone else, and there are simply places even following where you cant fall safely

for cragging roadtrips ... youll be limiting yourself to crags that have easy stuff for people to warm up on and lead ... many places i know with the "best" hard sport climbing generally have most of the climbs in the "harder" range ... you simply cant go to those crags anymore as your climber cant make it up

usually those who climb at a good level want to push themselves as hard as they can ... and if yr spending the money on a road trip, you want to do certain climbs and not have a partner that limits you as to what you can do

cragging at your local crag is a bit different as you know youll have many days to take your time and climb ... also with local partners youll take up "lesser" ones to train em up for the longer term

one of the more common complaints and reasons for not doing roadtrips again with some people is because their climbing levels dont match

i dont expect people who climb much harder than me to take me on road trips ... and i expect you to lead at a certain level on a road trip ... never had an issue with any roadtrip which had that expectation stated up front

Wink

Then don't ever ask me for a lift.


lkeegan


Jul 7, 2013, 8:24 PM
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Re: [Kartessa] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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Kartessa wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
Kartessa wrote:

I disagree.

You get your day of 5.13 single-pitch wankery where I'll belay for hours on end on your project, you put up a toprope on an 11 for me to practice hard moves on while you're between burns.

The next day we'll go do a day of easy stuff while you rest up for your redpoint tomorrow. We do 15 pitches on a 5.6 just for the joy of it.

After that we meet some people split up for a day or two and climb again.

Holy shit, everybody wins! No need to be a douchebro just to prove you're better at a very (in the grand scheme of life) insignificant skill than someone else.

on road trips people often have objectives ... and those objectives often involve doing certain climbs at certain levels

especially on multi, which is a goal for many roadtrips to places like yos, squamish, the rockies ... if you want to do a multi near your limit ... the person needs to be able to follow quickly and efficiently and not hangdog ... its simply not safe on long multi to not be able to do the climb decently ... youll be wasting time increasing the objective risks, youll be making it a gongshow for everyone else, and there are simply places even following where you cant fall safely

for cragging roadtrips ... youll be limiting yourself to crags that have easy stuff for people to warm up on and lead ... many places i know with the "best" hard sport climbing generally have most of the climbs in the "harder" range ... you simply cant go to those crags anymore as your climber cant make it up

usually those who climb at a good level want to push themselves as hard as they can ... and if yr spending the money on a road trip, you want to do certain climbs and not have a partner that limits you as to what you can do

cragging at your local crag is a bit different as you know youll have many days to take your time and climb ... also with local partners youll take up "lesser" ones to train em up for the longer term

one of the more common complaints and reasons for not doing roadtrips again with some people is because their climbing levels dont match

i dont expect people who climb much harder than me to take me on road trips ... and i expect you to lead at a certain level on a road trip ... never had an issue with any roadtrip which had that expectation stated up front

Wink

Then don't ever ask me for a lift.


Or ask for a lift but specify that you don't plan on climbing together. AND PITCH IN FOR GAS + OIL CHANGE (esp if your driving Ontario -> RRG)


meanandugly


Jul 8, 2013, 4:51 AM
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Re: [Kartessa] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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I have to agree with you Kartessa, most of my trips have been with my betters or my lessers and all, but one, have turned out great. Its all about presonality.


hyhuu


Jul 8, 2013, 6:25 AM
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Re: [RickGoodwin] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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I would have never guessed that this single pitch sport climbing can be such a serious matter. Whatever happened to the just having fun?


csproul


Jul 8, 2013, 8:26 AM
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Re: [RickGoodwin] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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I have been on both ends of this experience. Keep in mind, it may have nothing to do with your climbing ability. There are lots of other factors that may lead people to not want to associate with you. Perhaps they were ok talking with you when you when you first met, but upon watching you for a while, realized you just weren't the type of people they wanted to hang out with. Maybe someone in your group said something offensive while you were climbing...racial slur? Offensive remark about people from (fill in city here)? Off color comment about recent SCOTUS rulings on same-sex marriage? Perhaps, after watching you climb, they realized they were watching a complete shit show-accident waiting to happen. Maybe they were intimidated by your awesomeness. I know that as I get older...I sometimes just find young people annoying...could I possibly have been THAT annoying when I was 22? Don't answer that. There are lots of possibilities, who knows?


rsmillbern


Jul 8, 2013, 8:35 AM
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Re: [Kartessa] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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Kartessa wrote:
RickGoodwin wrote:
Alright so i was at summersville at the long wall. There was a group already there and we made friends quickly.. well after a while, I gear up to climb a 5.9 (forget the name). Well i couldnt finish the route.. my body was just crushed from 3 days prior of climbing from 9 am till about 7. i took a pretty sweet whipper on that route too. but after I was lowered to the ground the group we were talking to completely shunned us after that. It was so crazy, i couldnt understand what the deal was till our neighbors at the campsite (AAC) told us about some climbers being arrogant fucks.

Sorta... there's is someone I met from this forum and they climbed a much higher grade than me.

This wasn't an issue when I was driving their ass to the Red, it wasn't an issue when they needed me to set their tent up for them, wasn't even an issue when they didnt know how to operate their stove. They didn't seem to have a problem with me when they asked me to pick up groceries in town since I was going anyway.

However, once the subject of grades came up, I was a full 2 points below them. This meant that she had to find another partner to climb with - since neither douchewad bitchface or her new partner had a vehicle, I was good enough to be told I should drive them to the crag, but I wouldn't get any climbing in because I'm not at their level and her climbing is serious business.

Since I opted not to play taxi to someone who still hadn't paid for gas for the 10hr drive down, I was shunned for the rest of the time I was there... Quite comical to be having awesome conversations and connections with the other 99% of people I met and just the one dumbass giving the death glare every time I was within sight.

I might have given them a lift to the crag....
Back... maybe not...


RickGoodwin


Jul 8, 2013, 9:04 AM
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Re: [csproul] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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csproul wrote:
I have been on both ends of this experience. Keep in mind, it may have nothing to do with your climbing ability. There are lots of other factors that may lead people to not want to associate with you. Perhaps they were ok talking with you when you when you first met, but upon watching you for a while, realized you just weren't the type of people they wanted to hang out with. Maybe someone in your group said something offensive while you were climbing...racial slur? Offensive remark about people from (fill in city here)? Off color comment about recent SCOTUS rulings on same-sex marriage? Perhaps, after watching you climb, they realized they were watching a complete shit show-accident waiting to happen. Maybe they were intimidated by your awesomeness. I know that as I get older...I sometimes just find young people annoying...could I possibly have been THAT annoying when I was 22? Don't answer that. There are lots of possibilities, who knows?

this post helps too.


Syd


Jul 8, 2013, 4:30 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:


I have struggled with saying something vs. not saying something. A lot of times, you can tell ow your comment would be received even before you open your mouth...

I put it like this on one occasion : "You obviously have no concerns about your safety but I'm going to have to be one of the ones who is going to have to help carry you out after you deck."

I was addressing two young girls that we encountered on a long walk in to a crag. The girls were lost and wandering through the bush. We told them to follow us to the crag. They both had big trad racks ... it was a sports crag and they were climbing sports routes. They were both obviously very inexperienced. I made my comment when they were attempting the start of a 5.8. It was a start from a platform where a fall could have been very messy. They had no idea of how to do the first move and on my asking, had never heard of a stick clip.

They watched my stick clip lesson then continued to make a fool of themselves on other routes ... mmm, funny how you can't get your hand onto a key pocket after you stick a bit of gear into it ...


Partner happiegrrrl


Jul 9, 2013, 11:54 AM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
first rule of road trips ...

dont go with someone who climbs much easier or harder than you ...

I would say that if someone is the type who cannot bear to climb with another unless they are at equal grades, then yes - better make the small effort to find out what level they climb at and let them know that you are a TTB(Ticking Time bomb, meaning it is important for you to tick, tick, tick at a certain grade).

I don't climb hard, but can belay patiently and with complete attention to my partner on anything they get on. We agree beforehand whether my part of the climb is going to involve thrutching up something a little hard for me, using aid to get up something beyond what I can do, or they will clean the route themselves.

I have climbed with some wonderful people who are world class climbers whose agenda includes having fun. They can have a good day enjoying another person enjoying climbing.

My hardest leads have been with a partner who climbs 4 grades harder than I do, and they never seemed to have any issue partnering with me.(Though they DID once come up barefoot, another time with the rope dangling from their harness as I was still taking up the slack before putting them on belay and another time using only one hand, and on that one I got the satisfaction of the last laugh when they couldn't pull the crux one-handed after all...)

Maybe it is due to not having to scrunch climbing time into weekend cragging or precious work vacation destination trips. But yes - if someone cannot bear to climb with a "lesser" climber - do have the courtesy to let them know. I'd say being the sort who would knowing take rides and accept favors from someone they knew they were going to ditch is a much worse behavior than that of not being as hard a climber...


ChalkIsCheap


Jul 12, 2013, 12:01 PM
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Re: [Kartessa] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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Kartessa wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
Kartessa wrote:

Sorta... there's is someone I met from this forum and they climbed a much higher grade than me.

This wasn't an issue when I was driving their ass to the Red, it wasn't an issue when they needed me to set their tent up for them, wasn't even an issue when they didnt know how to operate their stove. They didn't seem to have a problem with me when they asked me to pick up groceries in town since I was going anyway.

However, once the subject of grades came up, I was a full 2 points below them. This meant that she had to find another partner to climb with - since neither douchewad bitchface or her new partner had a vehicle, I was good enough to be told I should drive them to the crag, but I wouldn't get any climbing in because I'm not at their level and her climbing is serious business.

Since I opted not to play taxi to someone who still hadn't paid for gas for the 10hr drive down, I was shunned for the rest of the time I was there... Quite comical to be having awesome conversations and connections with the other 99% of people I met and just the one dumbass giving the death glare every time I was within sight.

first rule of road trips ...

dont go with someone who climbs much easier or harder than you ...

the "better" climber will be bored as hell ... and the "lesser" climber will be struggling on stuff all the time

many crags that the better climber will want to go to wont have stuff that the lesser climber can lead

and dont even talk about multi ... nothing kills a climbing trip than having to haul someone up 10+ pitches

find someone within a grade of you for long trips ...

its that simple

Tongue

I disagree.

You get your day of 5.13 single-pitch wankery where I'll belay for hours on end on your project, you put up a toprope on an 11 for me to practice hard moves on while you're between burns.

The next day we'll go do a day of easy stuff while you rest up for your redpoint tomorrow. We do 15 pitches on a 5.6 just for the joy of it.

After that we meet some people split up for a day or two and climb again.

Holy shit, everybody wins! No need to be a douchebro just to prove you're better at a very (in the grand scheme of life) insignificant skill than someone else.
That sounds like a great plan. One thing that is a must is knowing what you want to acheive out of your trip. Last trip to the Red my fiancee wanted to get on easy sport climbs cause everything here is slick and moderate. She was pretty upset when we were stuck going to crags that was all 11's and 12's trying to find someone that wants to set up a top rope on a 5 star 12d when there is a lineup of people to redpoint it and the hardest we can climb is 11a. In the end nobody wins we didn't get on the climb and are stuck climbing sketchy crap. I like the idea of sharing days so everybody is happy. Going to crags that have a good mixture of grades and types and finding something there that will make you happy.

Have a plan on what you want to accomplish and a few backup plans if those fail. Rather then waiting an hour for a 4 star sport climb, do something else in the area and get it when they leave. Everyone wins.


Parkerkat


Jul 18, 2013, 10:07 AM
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Re: [lena_chita] Has anyone ever had an experience like this? [In reply to]
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In Ontario, at Metcalf Rock, we once heard a couple of guys talking through the trees.... it went a little something like this:

"hey, I've never climbed like this before... with the rope starting on the ground".... guy 2 says 'yeah, me neither, but i think this is the right knot to tie in with"...

my partner and I stared at eachother for a good 10 seconds of silence with thoughts bouncing between getting the heck out of there asap or giving up some of the day and walking over to have a friendly chat with these guys...

We did the right thing, we started a friendly chat, showed them this "new" thing called a figure 8, found them something a little easier than the 11c they wanted to start on and left with a high five and the feeling we did the right thing.... I could never live with myself had we left and one of them decked.

.....and I've met some arrogant people too....but to my fortune, I met them when I first started climbing outdoors, and regardless of how they passed along their suggestions (snarky might describe it right), the mix of knowledge and personal embarassment led me to seek the right mentors, the right advice and to be as self sufficient as possible..... mind you, in the context of ontario single pitch sport and trad.

Cheers!


ChalkIsCheap


Jul 18, 2013, 10:32 AM
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Parkerkat wrote:
In Ontario, at Metcalf Rock, we once heard a couple of guys talking through the trees.... it went a little something like this:

"hey, I've never climbed like this before... with the rope starting on the ground".... guy 2 says 'yeah, me neither, but i think this is the right knot to tie in with"...

my partner and I stared at eachother for a good 10 seconds of silence with thoughts bouncing between getting the heck out of there asap or giving up some of the day and walking over to have a friendly chat with these guys...

We did the right thing, we started a friendly chat, showed them this "new" thing called a figure 8, found them something a little easier than the 11c they wanted to start on and left with a high five and the feeling we did the right thing.... I could never live with myself had we left and one of them decked.

.....and I've met some arrogant people too....but to my fortune, I met them when I first started climbing outdoors, and regardless of how they passed along their suggestions (snarky might describe it right), the mix of knowledge and personal embarassment led me to seek the right mentors, the right advice and to be as self sufficient as possible..... mind you, in the context of ontario single pitch sport and trad.

Cheers!
Had a similar thing happen at Pillar 1 at Jordan. We were packing up to leave while two guy's climbing the 5.7 swaping leads after hanging one quickdraw each cause the climber would sketch out. After 7 or 8 swaps they make it to the anchors, lowered and stared at the draws for about a minute. I ask them if they know how to get them down, they say "nope...". So I taught them how to go in direct and clean the route. The last think I wanted on my concience was a guy hanging from the anchors with his rope on the ground. Sometimes you have to speak up every once in a while.


lkeegan


Jul 18, 2013, 12:46 PM
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ChalkIsCheap wrote:
Parkerkat wrote:
In Ontario, at Metcalf Rock, we once heard a couple of guys talking through the trees.... it went a little something like this:

"hey, I've never climbed like this before... with the rope starting on the ground".... guy 2 says 'yeah, me neither, but i think this is the right knot to tie in with"...

my partner and I stared at eachother for a good 10 seconds of silence with thoughts bouncing between getting the heck out of there asap or giving up some of the day and walking over to have a friendly chat with these guys...

We did the right thing, we started a friendly chat, showed them this "new" thing called a figure 8, found them something a little easier than the 11c they wanted to start on and left with a high five and the feeling we did the right thing.... I could never live with myself had we left and one of them decked.

.....and I've met some arrogant people too....but to my fortune, I met them when I first started climbing outdoors, and regardless of how they passed along their suggestions (snarky might describe it right), the mix of knowledge and personal embarassment led me to seek the right mentors, the right advice and to be as self sufficient as possible..... mind you, in the context of ontario single pitch sport and trad.

Cheers!
Had a similar thing happen at Pillar 1 at Jordan. We were packing up to leave while two guy's climbing the 5.7 swaping leads after hanging one quickdraw each cause the climber would sketch out. After 7 or 8 swaps they make it to the anchors, lowered and stared at the draws for about a minute. I ask them if they know how to get them down, they say "nope...". So I taught them how to go in direct and clean the route. The last think I wanted on my concience was a guy hanging from the anchors with his rope on the ground. Sometimes you have to speak up every once in a while.


I feel like this is just "welcome to Ontario climbing" cause just about every Saturday at Nemo something like this happens. You two are lucky that the people who were doing dumb things were receptive. Most of the people I've come across are snarky when I try to help them not kill themselves.

My boyfriend hypothesizes dude bros don't like getting advise from a girl who climbs harder than them. So maybe thats it.


wonderwoman


Jul 18, 2013, 12:56 PM
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lkeegan wrote:
My boyfriend hypothesizes dude bros don't like getting advise from a girl who climbs harder than them. So maybe thats it.

Yes. This happens sometimes.

Regardless, I always feel like I have to speak up when I see something scary. But I do not speak up until I am sure that they cannot figure it out themselves, first. I cannot be responsible for how someone reacts to my advice. They can take it or leave it. But I do feel responsible to step in if I see something dangerous. That gives me a clean conscience, at least.


lkeegan


Jul 18, 2013, 1:01 PM
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wonderwoman wrote:
lkeegan wrote:
My boyfriend hypothesizes dude bros don't like getting advise from a girl who climbs harder than them. So maybe thats it.

Yes. This happens sometimes.

Regardless, I always feel like I have to speak up when I see something scary. But I do not speak up until I am sure that they cannot figure it out themselves, first. I cannot be responsible for how someone reacts to my advice. They can take it or leave it. But I do feel responsible to step in if I see something dangerous. That gives me a clean conscience, at least.

Well put.


Syd


Jul 18, 2013, 4:51 PM
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RickGoodwin wrote:
... told us about some climbers being arrogant fucks.

Definitely. Have a browse through the Chockstone.org forum.


Rudmin


Jul 18, 2013, 6:14 PM
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RickGoodwin wrote:
well no, none of my group was acting stupid or anything of the sort. all of us know what were doing and we were very friendly. your thoughts on my whipper could have been it though.. it looked bad from the ground but it wasnt bad at all. they could have thought what you said and that makes me think better of them. i'll go with that.

Assuming you were acting stupid as a group, you probably would not be aware of it. Most stupid groups think they are quite intelligent.


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