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This place is DEAD!
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ncrockclimber


Jun 17, 2015, 5:01 PM
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What happened? I visit here every 6 months or so just to see how it is going. On this visit I was absolutely shocked with the lack of activity and general neglect. Who owns this site now? What happened to the "new" owners that were going to renovate and invigorate this site? As far as I can tell, this place is a ghost-town...


6pacfershur


Jun 18, 2015, 1:16 AM
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ncrockclimber wrote:
......... I visit here every 6 months or so just to see how it is going......

everyone split to supertopo.....


naitch


Jun 18, 2015, 8:26 AM
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iyup...and many on SuperTopo split for - climboing??? mtn. project??? or ???

The natural evolution of lists.

"And the seasons they go round and round
And the painted ponies go up and down
We're captive on the carousel of time
We can't return we can only look
Behind from where we came
And go round and round and round
In the circle game"


(This post was edited by naitch on Jun 18, 2015, 8:36 AM)


dynosore


Jun 19, 2015, 11:10 AM
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My impression is a lot less people climb now than 10 years ago.


ncrockclimber


Jun 19, 2015, 12:09 PM
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dynosore wrote:
My impression is a lot less people climb now than 10 years ago.

I am sure that is it.


marc801


Jun 20, 2015, 2:38 PM
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ncrockclimber wrote:
Who owns this site now? What happened to the "new" owners that were going to renovate and invigorate this site?
Instead of making obvious and noticeable improvements on the front page and in the forums, the new owner decided to focus exclusively for a year on totally invisible back-end changes.


ncrockclimber


Jun 20, 2015, 3:45 PM
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marc801 wrote:
ncrockclimber wrote:
Who owns this site now? What happened to the "new" owners that were going to renovate and invigorate this site?
Instead of making obvious and noticeable improvements on the front page and in the forums, the new owner decided to focus exclusively for a year on totally invisible back-end changes.

... and a few dictatorial "policy" statements which only served alienate the few people that were left. What happened here could actually be a case study for how to destroy the community aspect of a webpage.

There is little here for me as a user. Maybe the owner is making money off the site, but he absolutely failed to follow through what he said he was going to do on 10/31/2013:

In reply to:
"The primary thing I wanted to say in this post is that my wife and I *care* about creating a good experience for users and staff, and starting right now, we are here to support you.

Yeah, right.

Edit to add... The owner has not logged on here in over a month. As far as I can tell, he has not posted here since March. RC.com is truly dead.


(This post was edited by ncrockclimber on Jun 21, 2015, 6:17 AM)


kobaz


Jun 21, 2015, 7:29 PM
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ncrockclimber wrote:
In reply to:
"The primary thing I wanted to say in this post is that my wife and I *care* about creating a good experience for users and staff, and starting right now, we are here to support you.

Yeah, right.

Edit to add... The owner has not logged on here in over a month. As far as I can tell, he has not posted here since March. RC.com is truly dead.

So... being that the new rc.com owner is failing so miserably. Can I buy it now? I pulled my number out of the hat to get in line quite some time ago. I think maybe I'm next at this point?


lena_chita
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Jun 23, 2015, 8:40 AM
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kobaz wrote:
ncrockclimber wrote:
In reply to:
"The primary thing I wanted to say in this post is that my wife and I *care* about creating a good experience for users and staff, and starting right now, we are here to support you.

Yeah, right.

Edit to add... The owner has not logged on here in over a month. As far as I can tell, he has not posted here since March. RC.com is truly dead.

So... being that the new rc.com owner is failing so miserably. Can I buy it now? I pulled my number out of the hat to get in line quite some time ago. I think maybe I'm next at this point?

The answer depends on what you are planning to do to revive the dead.


Partner Jeff
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Jun 23, 2015, 2:02 PM
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I'm still very much around.

The only viable option for making improvements on the site is migrating to new forum software... the current software is ancient Perl code that's fairly well-written, but there's a reason very few modern websites still run Perl.

Migrating to new forum software requires untangling the different pieces of the site from each other--it's fairly well integrated so have to break it apart in order to upgrade different pieces. We've been slowly chipping away at it, but it's a lot of work.


(This post was edited by Jeff on Jun 23, 2015, 2:02 PM)


marc801


Jun 23, 2015, 4:22 PM
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Jeff wrote:
I'm still very much around.

The only viable option for making improvements on the site is migrating to new forum software... the current software is ancient Perl code that's fairly well-written, but there's a reason very few modern websites still run Perl.

Migrating to new forum software requires untangling the different pieces of the site from each other--it's fairly well integrated so have to break it apart in order to upgrade different pieces. We've been slowly chipping away at it, but it's a lot of work.
Understood, but sometimes you just need to bite the technical debt bullet and make those highly visible changes to get people interested. We're not talking about a ground-up greenfield rewrite of the entire site - just refactoring the front page design (visual and interaction), removing the stale content, and maybe getting some fresh articles.


ncrockclimber


Jun 23, 2015, 6:37 PM
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Jeff wrote:
I'm still very much around.

The only viable option for making improvements on the site is migrating to new forum software... the current software is ancient Perl code that's fairly well-written, but there's a reason very few modern websites still run Perl.

Migrating to new forum software requires untangling the different pieces of the site from each other--it's fairly well integrated so have to break it apart in order to upgrade different pieces. We've been slowly chipping away at it, but it's a lot of work.

LOL. Ok Jeff.


mojomonkey


Jun 24, 2015, 7:35 AM
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marc801 wrote:
Jeff wrote:
I'm still very much around.

The only viable option for making improvements on the site is migrating to new forum software... the current software is ancient Perl code that's fairly well-written, but there's a reason very few modern websites still run Perl.

Migrating to new forum software requires untangling the different pieces of the site from each other--it's fairly well integrated so have to break it apart in order to upgrade different pieces. We've been slowly chipping away at it, but it's a lot of work.
Understood, but sometimes you just need to bite the technical debt bullet and make those highly visible changes to get people interested. We're not talking about a ground-up greenfield rewrite of the entire site - just refactoring the front page design (visual and interaction), removing the stale content, and maybe getting some fresh articles.

Looks like interest fell off in January.

Camhead was making a good effort on articles but those stopped in January. Photos stalled around then as well - though I am not sure if people stopped submitting or there is just nobody approving them. The most recently registered user looks to be from early January too, which it sounded like needed manual approval now too (to prevent spam accounts).


(This post was edited by mojomonkey on Jun 24, 2015, 10:04 AM)


Partner cracklover


Jun 24, 2015, 11:44 AM
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mojomonkey wrote:
marc801 wrote:
Jeff wrote:
I'm still very much around.

The only viable option for making improvements on the site is migrating to new forum software... the current software is ancient Perl code that's fairly well-written, but there's a reason very few modern websites still run Perl.

Migrating to new forum software requires untangling the different pieces of the site from each other--it's fairly well integrated so have to break it apart in order to upgrade different pieces. We've been slowly chipping away at it, but it's a lot of work.
Understood, but sometimes you just need to bite the technical debt bullet and make those highly visible changes to get people interested. We're not talking about a ground-up greenfield rewrite of the entire site - just refactoring the front page design (visual and interaction), removing the stale content, and maybe getting some fresh articles.

Looks like interest fell off in January.

Camhead was making a good effort on articles but those stopped in January. Photos stalled around then as well - though I am not sure if people stopped submitting or there is just nobody approving them.

Neither - the site software stopped allowing any uploads of either Camheads articles or any users' photos. Just two of a number of things (well documented in the Bugs & Error Reports forum) that are broken, and have been for some time.

GO


marc801


Jun 24, 2015, 2:52 PM
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cracklover wrote:
mojomonkey wrote:
marc801 wrote:
Jeff wrote:
I'm still very much around.

The only viable option for making improvements on the site is migrating to new forum software... the current software is ancient Perl code that's fairly well-written, but there's a reason very few modern websites still run Perl.

Migrating to new forum software requires untangling the different pieces of the site from each other--it's fairly well integrated so have to break it apart in order to upgrade different pieces. We've been slowly chipping away at it, but it's a lot of work.
Understood, but sometimes you just need to bite the technical debt bullet and make those highly visible changes to get people interested. We're not talking about a ground-up greenfield rewrite of the entire site - just refactoring the front page design (visual and interaction), removing the stale content, and maybe getting some fresh articles.

Looks like interest fell off in January.

Camhead was making a good effort on articles but those stopped in January. Photos stalled around then as well - though I am not sure if people stopped submitting or there is just nobody approving them.

Neither - the site software stopped allowing any uploads of either Camheads articles or any users' photos. Just two of a number of things (well documented in the Bugs & Error Reports forum) that are broken, and have been for some time.
I'm suggesting something even more radical and admittedly short-term solution:
1. turn off anything that automatically updates the home page except the
new posts list
2. Manually insert links to any new content that would be of interest
3. Do a complete modernization of the visual design of the home page
4. AFTER that, then go an fix the most important things that are broken (eg: enabling user generated content upload - photos, articles, etc.)
5. THEN start on the real long-term fixes on the back end
5.


Partner Jeff
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Jun 25, 2015, 11:38 AM
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marc801 wrote:
3. Do a complete modernization of the visual design of the home page

It's a good idea, but I'm not sure how to do it easily. Otherwise I would have done it long ago. It's easy to change content within specific blocks, and I can reorder the blocks within the columns. Beyond that though, the code that handles the overall page structure is deeply intertwined with the rest of the site and changing it is not trivial.


Partner happiegrrrl


Jun 25, 2015, 12:35 PM
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What the hell is wrong with a person who feels the need to "One Star" a genuine and humble response from the damned owner of the site?

Maybe, since the site code is so fragile, the best option actually IS to start over and let the past be an archived site. Move the existing onto a site called "OldRC.com" or something(so the content isn't gone), post a "Here's the New site" on the home page, to redirect, and use the rc.com url for the new site that is whatever the vision is/was? Maybe that is a dumb idea and not a viable option, but if the site is brain dead and on life support, perhaps it's time to pull the plug.


(This post was edited by happiegrrrl on Jun 25, 2015, 12:36 PM)


Rokjox


Jul 9, 2015, 3:31 AM
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Hi Happie... ok, so I gave him a 4 star... I never played with the ratings thingy before...''Back in the day I remember a lot of posters on a certain other website offered to provide what would be basically crowdsourced programming skills... kinda scary but for a brave owner new methods of upgrading might be called for.

Almost no website dealing with climbing, skiing or biking is really doing well, and climbing is doing the worst I think. Climers all wanted to meet up and get to know one another, then they found that most of the other guys were absolute jerks too.

You yourself made a bunch of asshat claims about me stalking you when I never did any such thing. I got the only emails I ever sent you, they were all very innocent and straightforward.

When some say all the posters "went" to 'topo, thats not exactly right... they went where there is still life, or they disappeared. ST and MP have a little life left, MP because of its free worldwide guidebook format and ST mostly becvause of all the old men who make a living hustling climbers there... guides, rangers, and concession employees are keeping that site open.

Old men for sure are the ST demographic. They mostly project Smug and self righteous anarchy, nothing else any more. The real need for this website is to reimagine who their readers might be. ST is going lose many hits to the new Yos. Park website, CM won't be able to pretend to be an official resource much longer, Yosemite is gonna be its own website soon enough. I expect it will help gut ST even further.


But its clear from Alexa, ST is dead, its lost tens of thousands of raking points, and now is flat off the chart, the bottom of the chart.

WHO is rockclimbing .com gonna tap as readership?

There are a few computer junkies that still are interested in climbing, like me... but I am OLD too. Too old to be lured by just a pretty home page, I need CONTENT (not necessarily climbing content, cross sport content.. I need enough community to know a little about who I am posting to and to care who is reading the posts, enough to care to post.

Somehow, I don't think a reimagining of what a forum is to climbers is gonna happen. We are going to see each forum copying whatever forum still has momentum, each chasing the others tail, hoping to interest those remaining viewers, fighting for a smaller and smaller pie. Like Little Black Sambo, eventually all the tigers will just diasppear. Dead forums.


No matter what you can offer, its easier to destroy than to build. Entropy says the universe ends in disorder.

Try not to focus on the software, its the bigger issue of attracting PEOPLE who are avid posters that is your problem. Motivation, not graphics.

It is absolutely necessary to fix the upload image features though... without pictures, you are gonna be crippled with posters.


sungam


Jul 9, 2015, 5:53 AM
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As a legend-tier GUDPOSTER I accept payment for aiding in community develupment in , BTC, and HB offsets. Original cast size 8s, please.


moose_droppings


Jul 9, 2015, 9:56 PM
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You take bitcoin?

Laugh


sungam


Jul 10, 2015, 3:28 AM
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moose_droppings wrote:
You take bitcoin?

Laugh
Yeah, but don't worry. I only use BTC to transfer into dogecoins.


rgbscan


Jul 10, 2015, 11:44 AM
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I think a lot of it is just generational shifting too.

When I first started climbing seriously, this website, and minnesotaclimbing.com were the places to find knowledge and partners - while mining the occasional nugget of knowledge off old usenet groups using DejaNews.

These days people use Facebook and meetup.com for the same sort of thing. Forums for most of my hobbies are dead (with the exception of some radio control boards). While FB timelines are terrible for organized and threaded convo's, it's something everyone has access too and knows how to work it. I think it's also a generational thing that people don't do a lot of research and reading anymore - they just google for a quick answer or get someone to show them. No climber I've met under the age of 30 knows about "freedom of the Hills" for example - but that's just me. Most climbers my age (pushing 40) that used to frequent this site seem to do little climbing anymore, and even less spryaing on message boards about it. We've all got families, kids, dogs, and mortgages.

And then RC.com never seemed to attract the younger demo that hangs out in fb now.


sbaclimber


Jul 10, 2015, 1:24 PM
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rgbscan wrote:
I think a lot of it is just generational shifting too.

When I first started climbing seriously, this website, and minnesotaclimbing.com were the places to find knowledge and partners - while mining the occasional nugget of knowledge off old usenet groups using DejaNews.

These days people use Facebook and meetup.com for the same sort of thing. Forums for most of my hobbies are dead (with the exception of some radio control boards). While FB timelines are terrible for organized and threaded convo's, it's something everyone has access too and knows how to work it. I think it's also a generational thing that people don't do a lot of research and reading anymore - they just google for a quick answer or get someone to show them. No climber I've met under the age of 30 knows about "freedom of the Hills" for example - but that's just me. Most climbers my age (pushing 40) that used to frequent this site seem to do little climbing anymore, and even less spryaing on message boards about it. We've all got families, kids, dogs, and mortgages.

And then RC.com never seemed to attract the younger demo that hangs out in fb now.
Part of me says you're right, especially the part with the "pushing 40 with families, kids, etc". Tongue
The other part is the homebrewer part of me...
There are still quite a few active homebrewer forums out there.
The question is, why are the homebrewers still actively interacting with each other online, while the climbers aren't...?


marc801


Jul 10, 2015, 11:13 PM
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rgbscan wrote:
...Most climbers my age (pushing 40) that used to frequent this site seem to do little climbing anymore, ...

And then RC.com never seemed to attract the younger demo that hangs out in fb now.
The median age on Facebook in the last study I read is 37.8 yrs old. The most active demographic group on FB is 35-54 yrs old.


sungam


Jul 13, 2015, 7:14 AM
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marc801 wrote:
rgbscan wrote:
...Most climbers my age (pushing 40) that used to frequent this site seem to do little climbing anymore, ...

And then RC.com never seemed to attract the younger demo that hangs out in fb now.
The median age on Facebook in the last study I read is 37.8 yrs old. The most active demographic group on FB is 35-54 yrs old.
Yeah but does "most active group" mean most time spent on candy crush and farmville? ))))))))))))


marc801


Jul 13, 2015, 8:03 AM
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sungam wrote:
Yeah but does "most active group" mean most time spent on candy crush and farmville? ))))))))))))
But those are so two years ago!


dynosore


Jul 13, 2015, 9:22 AM
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ncrockclimber wrote:
dynosore wrote:
My impression is a lot less people climb now than 10 years ago.

I am sure that is it.

This site has been hit particularly hard due to lack of care. BUT, I still contend that climbing has dropped off in popularity. From my local gym to all the places I visit, I see a lot less people than I did 10 years ago.

A few crags that are easy to access are still busy i.e. Garden of the Gods, but anything requiring disposable income to reach is quite empty.


jorgegonzalez


Jul 13, 2015, 1:40 PM
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I just realized the old 50's diner across the street from me has closed - don't know if permanently or not.

But, although the food was fine, it's popularity had been dropping off for awhile, and if it was to stay in business, it had to be because the customers found what they wanted there. The food, the facilities, and the service were fine, at least adequate, but it seems the community around here didn't support it's premise anymore, standard American faire for inexpensive prices, right in the neighborhood.

Perhaps people were more enticed by glitzy, new couture, expensive food, more than likely because they wanted to follow the crowd. Where's the next fashionable place to be seen?

It's a shame in a sense, because right here at home we could get that same "feel good comfort food" that we always want to come back to. But we took it for granted and ignored it, and now will begin to feel nostalgic longings for what we used to have, but don't anymore.

Is it really the site, the new owner, the old outdated code, that has prompted most of us to move on? Or is it really a lack of interest, or distaste for all the nasty and vitriolic exchanges we were vicariously subjected to, or just boredom?

Who knows. But if there really is a community out there that cares for this forum it is up to us, and us alone, to revive it and make it what we always wanted, and I would say, always had. It does not matter that some of us are old (I resemble that remark), and some of us are young, some of us climb all the time, and some of us are happy to get on a 5.8 top rope every blue moon. It's the diversity of the audience, of the opinions, of the subject matters that makes this place interesting, and makes people want to come and visit.

The young learn from the old, and the old get to tell stories of the life they once led and enjoyed. What's wrong with that?


(This post was edited by jorgegonzalez on Jul 13, 2015, 1:43 PM)


kennoyce


Jul 14, 2015, 1:32 PM
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dynosore wrote:
ncrockclimber wrote:
dynosore wrote:
My impression is a lot less people climb now than 10 years ago.

I am sure that is it.

This site has been hit particularly hard due to lack of care. BUT, I still contend that climbing has dropped off in popularity. From my local gym to all the places I visit, I see a lot less people than I did 10 years ago.

A few crags that are easy to access are still busy i.e. Garden of the Gods, but anything requiring disposable income to reach is quite empty.


Probably just an area specific thing, I know that I see a lot more people out climbing now than I did 10 years ago. That's just my personal experience, but I think that there is data out there backing up a growing popularity in climbing over the past 10 years.


Forums : Climbing Information : General

 


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