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boretribe


Jan 21, 2002, 8:14 PM
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I had previously posted this to the 'Technique and Training' forum and somebody suggested I check here.

I'm interested in getting a Silent Partner for TR. I would love to be able to set up the rope and just climb up and down a route until I have it totally wired (or my limbs fail). This isn't really something a belayer would be jumping up and down to do. More important is the fact that I love to climb by myself which is why I boulder most of the time (free soloing is out of the question). I've read the literature from Wren Industries and feel fairly comfortable with the rigging (including clipping into back-up knots).

Just wondering if any of you have had any experience with this set-up. What are your opinions on solo top roping? Is it relatively safe (there are always risks with climbing)? etc..

[ This Message was edited by: boretribe on 2002-01-21 20:15 ]


ryanguy


Jan 21, 2002, 8:54 PM
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In my opinion solo top-roping is quite safe. There was a forum about this that covers much of what you are looking for and I put my two cents on it as well.
I have never used the silent partner but it looks good. I've been using the Soloist (also by Wren Industries) for the past 5 years for basically the same purpose as you, TRing without the need to drag a belayer into it. I've been doing this when cleaning new routes to work out the route so I've also done a lot of hang-dogging and it is fine for that too. For the Soloist you do need a chest harness but two slings work great. It is also a much cheaper device and you can rappel with it. I am pretty sure it self-feeds much the same way as the Silent Partner. There is the danger of the Soloist not locking if you fall upside-down but how often does that happen (never has for me). The knots below on the rope will also back up a fall in any case.
Solo climbing using these devices is relatively safe if done properly. The only real danger is in the unforseen accident ie. if you are rendered unconscious by falling rock and there is no one else around to call for help. This has always been my greatest fear about climbing alone.
Hope this helps.

[ This Message was edited by: ryanguy on 2002-01-21 20:55 ]


Partner pianomahnn


Jan 21, 2002, 9:50 PM
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Nothing to add except I was the guy who did the suggesting to post here.


newbieclimber


Jan 22, 2002, 5:25 PM
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save your money and use a gri-gri for TR soloing. you can back it up by clipping into overhands on a bight every 15 feet, or you can set up the gri-gri to self feed by slightly weighting the end of the rope. then back it up with a loose prussik tied above the gri-gri. as the gri-gri slides up the rope it will slide the prussik up. the second method is much less cumbersome than tying into overhands.

silent partners are extremely large and heavy and they are supposed to be a real pain to get unjammed once you fall on them.

[ This Message was edited by: newbieclimber on 2002-01-22 17:30 ]


mnutz


Jan 22, 2002, 6:20 PM
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I have been using a Silent Partner to top-rope for a year, and have been leading with it about 6 months. Actually just got back from an afternoon of single-pitch trad lines.

For top-roping, I find it a little hard to feed. Makes for some extra rope-handling. That's my only complaint.

Despite what newbieclimber says, I've never found the weight or size of the Silent Partner to be an issue. It rests quite unobtrusively on my harness, I don't even notice it anymore.

Leading is really what this device is for, it works flawlessly. If you enjoy soloing, it is well worth the money.


addiroids


Jan 22, 2002, 9:16 PM
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boretribe:

Good job breaking out and doing some soloing. I personally can't justify spending $200 for that thing, but if that's all you have then go for it. Or you could just TEACH a buddy or soon-to-be-buddy how to belay and have someone to belay you.

And don't listen to ANYTHING that NEWBIECLIMBER says. It is more incorrect than the word "wrong" implies. He never tries to learn, he only spouts wrong info. Notice his superb rating by his peers...er, I mean...the people on this site. I don't know if he has a "peer". This is not a beef between him and me. He is truely a moron.

TRADitionally yours,

Addiroids


boretribe


Jan 22, 2002, 9:46 PM
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Addiroids thanks for the concern. I had noticed his rating. I do have people that will belay me (although not for several hours on end) there are just a lot of time I feel like climbing by myself. Me and the rock.

I have heard of using a Gri Gri before and it sounds doable with certain rigging and modifications (something I am not willing to risk my life with). Two big problems using the Gri Gri (although I am sure there are more).
1. The lever could get caught on clothing, rope, harness etc giving me a quick ride to the deck.
2. If the rope ran off to the side of the Gri Gri during a fall there would be a potential of thecover plate cutting the rope. Ropes just aren't designed to withstand a fall over the edge of an 1/8" piece of metal.

One thing newbie did mention that interested me was the use of a prussic (I prefer kleimheist) instead of clipping into overhand knots on a separate rope. It seems less cumbersome than stopping every 15' to unclip and clip into knots. Any thoughs?

mnuts is the TR setup hard to feed even if you have the rope anchored at the bottom as well as the top (with slack of course)? It seem like the anchor at the bottom would help pull/feed the rope through.


addiroids


Jan 22, 2002, 10:07 PM
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Remember that it is a backup KNOT!!! You are knoting your LEAD (okay, TR) rope. Much more dependable than a 6mm prussik knot!! Don't you agree? Remember, listen to nothing that newbie says. Wait to hear it from someone you believe.

And if you can't find anyone to belay, MOVE TO SOCALI!! There are a ton of climbers here that would love to climb with you. Besides, it's JANUARY and it was 70 DEGREES FARENHEIGHT today (that's about 22 deg C for all you Canuks up there. Not that you will ever see those #'s before July).

TRADitionally yours,

Addiroids


boretribe


Jan 22, 2002, 11:01 PM
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Addiroids point well taken. Must have had my head shoved up my... I was equating the prussic set-up with a rappel back-up etc. not one that could withstand a shock-load. OOPS. Glad you caught my error. Thanks.

As far as living in SoCal, I agree with you. I live near LA, which is why I can go climbing at 6:30 am before going to work (and I'm not talking about climbing plastic).


stigonrock


Jan 22, 2002, 11:27 PM
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ok this isn't much help but....

I used to use a self belaying device which I think was designed by DMM.
The great thing about this device is that it is really small and light and simple in design, no special setting up techniques are required or anything like that......its just that I haven't used it for a few years and I need to dig it out from where ever Ive stored it. Then I can tell you more about it.

All I know it was designed for self belaying on a top-rope. Took me quite a long time to get confident with it, as in falling, but it never failed.

Hmmm...now where did I put that dang thing.
Stig


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Jan 23, 2002, 7:21 AM
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Hi, Man I'm glad this issue came up. I have been trying to ask about solo climbing from a top rope where you don't have to use a belayer and wondered how safe it was.

I did some research and found a "Pretzl-Shunt" that was said to be made for this. It costs around 40-dollars and I have gone out twice now and it has worked great. On rappels, You can clip into your ATC, sit the Pretzl shunt above it on a daisy chain for back up.

Anyway, my question was, do others do this? Was this safe? Is there better equipment out there to be doing this with? Am I an accident waiting to happen.

It looks like others enjoy TR and climbing by themselves, so is what I'm doing safe? Have others used the Pretzl Shunt for this?

Any help or advice would be great.. Thanks
Ron


Partner pianomahnn


Jan 23, 2002, 8:15 AM
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From what I thought I knew, the Silent Partner was developed as an improvement to solo climbing. It was to step in where other solo climbing devices such as a GriGri failed.

Although I love my GriGri, solo toproping with it has never really come to my mind. Stopping to pull slack through, tie your backup knots, etc. Although, I'm totally unfamiliar with how the Silent Partner actually works, I assume some sort of backup knots are required.

I dont know, it would probably be easier, as we mentioned prior to me, to find some belay bitch.


jstumpf


Jan 23, 2002, 9:40 AM
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The Silent Partner is absolutely fantastic for solo toproping. I was completely in love with mine until it got stolen a couple of days ago. As was previouisly mentioned, it can be a little slow to feed when on toprope, but that can be easily fixed by either anchoring both sides of the rope (loosely) at the bottom of the climb or fixing the rope at the top (with a figure eight or equivalent) and then loosely fixing the end you're climbing on at the bottom. This leaves the other fixed side free in case you need to lower off (I'ts a pain to lower on the SP, so bring an ATC. This will make it easier to unweight the SP should you need to bail).

Happy Soloing


mnutz


Jan 23, 2002, 10:27 PM
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boretribe - The Silent Partner does feed easier when the rope is anchored at the bottom (for top-rope), I would say it is necessary, actually.

Also, in response to newbieclimber's claim, the Silent Partner is not hard at all to free after a fall.

addiroids - 70 degrees here (So. IL) today, too. Ain't it great?! Ya gotta love January rock!


clipngo


Jan 25, 2002, 9:32 PM
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I have used a gri-gri for self belay on TR for several years, never had a problem. Get some 7-8 mm cord for a backup prusik, and you will be good to go.


clipngo


Jan 25, 2002, 9:33 PM
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I have used a gri-gri for self belay on TR for several years, never had a problem. Get some 7-8 mm cord for a backup prusik, and you will be good to go.


crackwhore


Jan 25, 2002, 10:15 PM
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soloist: $75.00
gri-gri: $75.00

soloist is superior for toproping because it will self feed after a few feet and is fairly safe in a TR situation.

the Silent Partner is safer for leading but poor for TR because, as was previously noted, it is difficult get it to spin after being loaded. also when high stepping or flagging friction tends to inhibit self feeding.

gotta go with addiroids...
does newbie have an alter ego???



fo_d


Jan 25, 2002, 10:35 PM
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Someone mentioned somewhere that you need to use a chest harness with a soloist, is that true? and is there a way to make it safer for leading or should i just get the SP if i want to lead solo?

[ This Message was edited by: fo_d on 2002-01-25 22:39 ]


fo_d


Jan 25, 2002, 11:05 PM
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well i got the answer for one of my questi0ons from the wren web site:
"The Soloist must be used with a chest harness because it will not lock when inverted."

Also from that site:

"Climbing", April/May 1992 issue, pages 127-130

When you are climbing, the Soloist glides smoothly along the rope, letting you do harder free moves than any of the knot belays or the Solo Aid. However, the device won’t catch upside-down or head-first falls. In situations where you might fall inverted, such as laybacks or roofs, you need to tie backup knots close to the Soloist or switch to the figure-8 belay



[ This Message was edited by: fo_d on 2002-01-25 23:10 ]


darkside


Jan 30, 2002, 9:20 AM
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Addiroids: As someone from the land of ice (Canuck) I'd like to correct you. We have just been suffering through temps of 12oC (about 56oF) when it should be more like -12oC (roughly 10-15oF) and that JUST PISSES ME RIGHT OFF. These temps are killing the ice and snow and trashing the joy of winter sports. In fact it makes it positively dangerous as the guy I was climbing with last Saturday nearly got smoked by a 500+lb chunk of falling ice.
Come on people, don't you see the effect of global warming, do something about it. If not for the environment then for your fellow climbers in Canada who want to play on the ice.
PS We're supposed to get a winter storm tomorrow....WHOOO-HOOOOOOO.


darkside


Jan 30, 2002, 10:22 AM
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OK here is an example of newbie giving poor advise...
QUOTE: "a loose prussik tied above the gri-gri"
Prussic cords/accessory cords are made from nylon which has a low melting point. In a short, slow, fall 'if' the prussic bites quickly it may hold. In a prolonged, faster fall the amount of heat built up from friction before the prussic bites can melt the cord making it fail. Not recommended.

Boretribe: I have used a gri-gri for TR soloing and am not overly concerned about the lever getting caught. It has to open nearly 180o to release the cam from the rope so that while the lever may get lifted during a fall, you would then have to invert to completely release the cam. Get the idea. That is why back-up knots are used.

I have also used the Petzl mini-traction with back up knots for TR soloing. Note: not for situations where there is any slack rope above such as large roofs or lead solo. With a little coil of rope below, the mini-traction feeds great. I have done solo aid on TR and for this I used the gri-gri instead.

[ This Message was edited by: darkside on 2002-01-30 10:29 ]


ontherocks


Jun 5, 2002, 8:08 PM
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My concern about the back up with a prusik is the friction of a fall melting the rope. I read about this somewhere.

About the Silent Partner on toprope, have you tried to just weight the rope instead of anchoring it to the bottom? The problem I see on the anchoring is that if you have to traverse (expected or unexpected), you either have your movement restricted, or the amount of slack makes hard to feed the thingy.

What do you think?


narz


Jun 7, 2002, 6:48 AM
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So just to make sure I'm not gonna get myself killed any time soon... Are there any legitimate reasons not to use my gri gri for solo top roping other than the lever possibly getting caught on clothing? I dont really have the cash for a silent partner at the moment but sounds like I will definitely be getting one soon. In the meantime Im using a gri gri and havent had any problems .....YET.


topher


Jun 13, 2002, 9:52 PM
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Well Addiroids, im sorry to burts your bubble but today in BC (thats part of canada) we where climbing in sunny blue skys and it was about 32C out!!! and its been like that for the last week! also i think we have better climbing up her cause there isnt a million people all tyring to climb routes that are pollished like glass!


thomas.jerald


Apr 9, 2009, 12:38 PM
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Hey, im new to this forum, but from what i hear and have read this is a great community... Just have one question... Has anybody used the Solo Aid also by Wren Ind.? I ask because as a college student the silent partner is just plain out of my price range, and I really don't like the idea of having to use a chest harness with the soloist. And i don't know why, but the grigri just kinda scares me, gut feeling, you know...


shockabuku


Apr 9, 2009, 12:46 PM
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Are you looking to TR solo (title of the thread) or lead solo?

If you want to TR solo save your money and get a Petzl microcender or mini-traxion. They're much cheaper and probably easier to use for TR solo.


moose_droppings


Apr 9, 2009, 12:55 PM
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thomas.jerald wrote:
Hey, im new to this forum, but from what i hear and have read this is a great community... Just have one question... Has anybody used the Solo Aid also by Wren Ind.? I ask because as a college student the silent partner is just plain out of my price range, and I really don't like the idea of having to use a chest harness with the soloist. And i don't know why, but the grigri just kinda scares me, gut feeling, you know...

If your just going to be top roping, get yourself a rescucender or micrcender by Petzl. No matter what you end up using, tying backup knots is always prudent.


pendereki


Apr 9, 2009, 2:08 PM
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In response to the original question: I use the Silent Partner to solo lead and toprope. Leading, I forget it is there. Toproping, I forget it is there. i really like it for both applications. The Back up knot system was a hassle when I first started using the SP, just like the directions stated. Once you forget to take out the backup knot on lead and run into it, it locks the SP up against the backup carabiner. What a pain! I am now used to paying attention to the backup system and ignoring the Silent Partner completly and seldom have any problems.
Toproping, the system is even easier to manage. Tie the middle of the rope to the anchor. I tie my backpack to the bottom of the rope with just the right amount of slack and the SP slides up and down so smooth I do forget about it. For backup, I tie butterfly knots in the other half every several feet and clip into those with a locking 'biner on a sling girth hitched to my harness. After I have clipped into the second loop, I unclip the first. It's not all that much more trouble than clipping draws to bolts. Since you asked specifically about the Silent Partner, I assume you are not worried about the price, therefore I recommend getting one. It is the most hassle-free soloing device I have used.


shockabuku


Apr 9, 2009, 3:15 PM
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pendereki wrote:
Since you asked specifically about the Silent Partner, I assume you are not worried about the price, therefore I recommend getting one. It is the most hassle-free soloing device I have used.

What other devices have you used?


moose_droppings


Apr 9, 2009, 4:16 PM
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pendereki wrote:
In response to the original question: I use the Silent Partner to solo lead and toprope............
and
Since you asked specifically about the Silent Partner, I assume you are not worried about the price, therefore I recommend getting one.

The post that shockabuku and I posted to was from today, all the others were from 2002.

Good post, just don't be expexcting a reply from the OP soon.

Just saying.Wink


pendereki


Apr 9, 2009, 8:05 PM
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moose_droppings wrote:
pendereki wrote:
In response to the original question: I use the Silent Partner to solo lead and toprope............
and
Since you asked specifically about the Silent Partner, I assume you are not worried about the price, therefore I recommend getting one.

The post that shockabuku and I posted to was from today, all the others were from 2002.

Good post, just don't be expexcting a reply from the OP soon.

Just saying.Wink

damn, details like dates and such. Wasn't paying attention, just wanted a warm fuzzy for being helpful. Thanks for letting me know that my fuzzy wuzzn't coming anytime soon.Blush


thomas.jerald


Apr 9, 2009, 8:08 PM
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WOW!!! I was right about this being a good forum, you guys are fast Wink. Thanks for all the help, but i was specifically asking about the Solo Aid by Wren Ind. as I am having a very hard time finding any reviews on it... Thanks again...


shockabuku


Apr 9, 2009, 8:16 PM
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thomas.jerald wrote:
WOW!!! I was right about this being a good forum, you guys are fast Wink. Thanks for all the help, but i was specifically asking about the Solo Aid by Wren Ind. as I am having a very hard time finding any reviews on it... Thanks again...

Yeah, so here's your question:

thomas.jerald wrote:
Hey, im new to this forum, but from what i hear and have read this is a great community... Just have one question... Has anybody used the Solo Aid also by Wren Ind.? I ask because as a college student the silent partner is just plain out of my price range, and I really don't like the idea of having to use a chest harness with the soloist. And i don't know why, but the grigri just kinda scares me, gut feeling, you know...

And the answer is: yes, somebody has used it. Was that a helpful answer? Somehow I doubt it. I suspect you are actually looking for more information. If a discussion ensued we might be able to provide some useful info.

I was trying to gather some background to your question and that still remains to be determined. Are you looking to do TR solo or lead solo?


shockabuku


Apr 9, 2009, 8:18 PM
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Re: [thomas.jerald] Top Roping with 'Silent Partner'? [In reply to]
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Try starting here: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...i?post=795582#795582


gulla826


Apr 11, 2009, 1:40 PM
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I have been thinking about getting into top rope soloing for some time know. I just intend to climb easy routes with it when I can't find a partner. I believe I understand the mechanics, besides the back up knot. Is the back up knots put into the rope as you climb? If so how much of a pain in the ass is it? Or are the knots put in before the climb and if so how does the device move past them?

thanks
mike


shockabuku


Apr 12, 2009, 1:28 AM
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gulla826 wrote:
Is the back up knots put into the rope as you climb? If so how much of a pain in the ass is it?

thanks
mike

Yes, as you climb. How much of a pain in the ass depends on you and the climb. Generally I try to put one in high enough off the ground that it will keep me from decking (with rope stretch factored in) and then above ledges or when it's convenient.


gunkiemike


Apr 12, 2009, 6:06 AM
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gulla826 wrote:
I have been thinking about getting into top rope soloing for some time know. I just intend to climb easy routes with it when I can't find a partner. I believe I understand the mechanics, besides the back up knot. Is the back up knots put into the rope as you climb? If so how much of a pain in the ass is it? Or are the knots put in before the climb and if so how does the device move past them?

thanks
mike

We're talking about two types of BU knots here. The first are tied on the rope your device is on. Typically when using a Grigri, to cover that ugly-but-unlikely lever problem. These knots go below the device and must be tied as you climb. Tie anything bulky that will stop a sliding device.

The other type are Fig 8 loops tied in a second rope that hangs next to your main rope. These can be tied beforehand. You clip into them as you go up, again, purely as BU in case of main system failure.

If you're using a ascender with any potential to shear the rope, then the second type of BU is preferred. For a slipping device/prussik, the first type may be all you need. It also is the way to go if your route is more than half a rope length long.

Other considerations - If you tie the first type of BU knot but clip into it, you totally lose the tension on the rope that is gen. needed for the device to slide up the rope. If you use the second type of BU system for ice climbing, you will be bringing a loop of rope up underneath you as you climb. This tends to get caught on icicles, bringing you to an immediate halt.

Have fun, be safe.


rocknrock


Apr 13, 2009, 6:58 AM
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gulla826 wrote:
I have been thinking about getting into top rope soloing for some time know. I just intend to climb easy routes with it when I can't find a partner. I believe I understand the mechanics, besides the back up knot. Is the back up knots put into the rope as you climb? If so how much of a pain in the ass is it? Or are the knots put in before the climb and if so how does the device move past them?

thanks
mike

I'm certainly not an expert but this is the best article I've ever seen about it

http://www.climbing.com/...techtips/ttsport253/

He mentions something about leaving slack to not dislodge rocks, I think it's more about not abrading the rope again and again in the same spot, I may be wrong.

Some of that subject is is mentioned here

http://gorp.away.com/...expert/exp041101.htm

Or you can see how this guy has dealt with that problem here

http://mountainproject.com/v/james_w/106098710

See James481 on

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...rum.cgi?post=2119475

for more regarding stuff his top rope setup that's where I got that link

Again I'm no expert, I assume it goes without saying make your own decisions.


dingus


Apr 13, 2009, 7:16 AM
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Re: [thomas.jerald] Top Roping with 'Silent Partner'? [In reply to]
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thomas.jerald wrote:
WOW!!! I was right about this being a good forum, you guys are fast Wink. Thanks for all the help, but i was specifically asking about the Solo Aid by Wren Ind. as I am having a very hard time finding any reviews on it... Thanks again...

I own one. Its a mechanical prussik. You have to pull the rope through with your hand. They say to use a backup.

I used it for some aid work. I used it once for TR and never again. I do not like having to feed rope while solo top roping.

I use mini-trax in tandem for this application, now.

DMT


chopperjohn


Apr 15, 2009, 4:37 PM
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Re: [newbieclimber] Top Roping with 'Silent Partner'? [In reply to]
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[quote "newbieclimber"]save your money and use a gri-gri for TR soloing. you can back it up by clipping into overhands on a bight every 15 feet, or you can set up the gri-gri to self feed by slightly weighting the end of the rope. then back it up with a loose prussik tied above the gri-gri. as the gri-gri slides up the rope it will slide the prussik up. the second method is much less cumbersome than tying into overhands.

silent partners are extremely large and heavy and they are supposed to be a real pain to get unjammed once you fall on them.

[ This Message was edited by: newbieclimber on 2002-01-22 17:30 ][/quote] This methods works great. I use alpine butterflies every 10 feet or so. I rap with my atc and can flick the alpines quicker on the way down.


EastSideEric


Oct 12, 2009, 10:09 PM
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Anyone ever used a Wild Country Ropeman for TR soloing? Dirt poor, looked simple enough and definetly in the budget.


joewtc


Oct 13, 2009, 8:02 PM
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Re: [boretribe] Top Roping with 'Silent Partner'? [In reply to]
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hey boretribe, I have a SP and I love it for lead rope solo. It's amazing or the best for lead rope solo or top rope solo. If you are ONLY doing top rope solo, you can buy save some $ and buy an ascender (ONLY the type specifying that they are capable and designed for top rope solo e.g. Ushba http://mtntools.com/cat/rclimb/ascend/ushbabasicascender.htm)

Personally, SP does it all and is designed for rope solo. The weight issue is personal preference (I don't feel the weight at all).

There are many different ways to rope solo (safe and unsafe). So when you are buying your tool, make sure the tool is designed for rope solo. So you don't have to rely on unreliable sources of testing or second guess your equipment. I'd only trust something well tested in lab than personal experience.

I found the best way to top rope solo is:
- set up an equalette anchor at the top
- throw down the whole rope and leave 2m rope.
- tie a figure 8 and then next to it (1foot of rope apart), tie an alpine butterly (the figure 8 is a backup knot in case the alpine butterfly knot fail), clip both in the power point.
- rap down the rope.
- clip your device into the rope and start climbing.
- every now and then, clip a clove hitch knot from the rope into your belay loop as a backup (in case your device fail)

I prefer this to tying the power point to the middle of the rope as there's more rope weight down this way and your device will just run up the rope.

BUT, the advantage of tying the power point to the middle of the rope is your have redunduncy in case your climbing rope was cut by a rock, you still have 1 more backup rope holding you.

There's more risk in top rope solo of rope cut than normal top rope climbing since the same part of the rope is constanting rubbing against the rock.


anthonymason


Apr 28, 2010, 8:48 PM
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I have used the SP for lead and for TR and it is by far the best device for both. There are some that are cheap and would say use this or that maybe a knot would be better etc.
However I assume that they don't have a SP and dont know the inside out of this very cool device, go out and buy one and you'll never have to guide a noob into you're slave only to leave you for some reason, so if you are like me burning out partners faster than gurls, do yourself a favor and Buy a SP and you'll have more fun than hooker in Vegas.
Anthony


Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Trad Climbing

 


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