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Poll on chipping
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Partner tgreene


Sep 26, 2005, 2:57 PM
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In reply to:
Learn to accept defeat
The French, they practice this! :lol:


skinkididoo


Sep 26, 2005, 3:18 PM
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No to all three original questions

If you can't climb something, try something easier. If you want to make a route where there obviously isn't one, be a routesetter in a gym. There are so many awesome places to climb that it really seems silly for people to go out and chip something to make it a climb. Its not like that aesthetically perfect yet holdless arete is the only aesthetically beautiful arete in the world... have a sense of adventure and go somewhere else...


kyote321


Sep 26, 2005, 3:25 PM
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dude, get off the french. have you been to france? or are you a victim of pro-america, 'freedom fries' propaganda? i have a lot of respect for the french for standing up to the tyrannical US under bush. they have a self-sustaining , progressive culture that values food, culture, and qulait over over-consumption and greed.

for our sport, they were instrumental in moving it out of the dark ages of the 60s-80s. say what you want, but no one is climbing 15a on gear, and many are able to enjoy the sport safely because of their hang-dogging and rap-bolting. if you want to involve yourself in an ethical debate, how about why is our federal land being sold out to oil and timber interests?

yes, many routes in the west have the odd hold manufacured to keep with the vibe of the climb. many more have had holds improves OR made less good to keep the climb at a consistent grade. they happen to be some of the best, and most repeated, climbs. props to the route setters.

you can get on your high horse all you wnat, but unless you solely climb trad, you are climbing a route that someone has manipulated in some way, and thus are encouraging the activity.


Partner gunksgoer


Sep 26, 2005, 3:46 PM
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you can get on your high horse all you wnat, but unless you solely climb trad, you are climbing a route that someone has manipulated in some way.

Wow. Im sure lots of people would like to think this. Trad routes are probably the most manipulated ones out there. Decades of pitons have taken their toll, sometimes to the extent that the whole nature of the route has been changed. Holds and gear placements are also chipped on some routes. Consider this route:

http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/...6/images/hanging.jpg

It was chipped. Of course it looks pretty sweet and id love to climb it (assuming ill ever be able to) but due to the bolt ban at the gunks nut placements were chipped. The seam leading out the roof was also enlarged slightly in some places. This is not an extreme example either. Piton scars dot many climbs and in some places provide nice hand holds or pro options that otherwise wouldnt exist.


kyote321


Sep 26, 2005, 3:54 PM
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yeah, good point. i haven't been tradding in a major area for a while, so i forget this.


mcgivney_nh


Sep 26, 2005, 3:56 PM
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1 NO
2 YES
3 NO OPINION


moose_droppings


Sep 26, 2005, 3:56 PM
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This does not make it right, but I imagine that many people who posted an indignant "no!" to the pole question have on more than one ocassion used chipped holds and enjoyed the experience without knowing that the holds were chipped.

Using one and making one are two totaly different things


fluxus


Sep 26, 2005, 4:00 PM
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In reply to:
http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/...6/images/hanging.jpg

It was chipped. Of course it looks pretty sweet and id love to climb it (assuming ill ever be able to) but due to the bolt ban at the gunks nut placements were chipped. The seam leading out the roof was also enlarged slightly in some places. This is not an extreme example either. Piton scars dot many climbs and in some places provide nice hand holds or pro options that otherwise wouldnt exist.

great point, the fact that people started to chip nut placements on trad routes in the 1980's (maybe even earlier) is one of those often overlooked facts, that also happened at Smith. and a few other areas.

considering the direction the thread is going I can't help but mention that the name of the route above is "the French Connection" :-)

Personally I would love to say that they French are better at chipping then we are but then I just remembered getting on" Hello la Terre" in the Verdon. The first hold was a square chunk just glued onto the wall. So it gets a D- for aesthetics but an A- for route quality.


climber15


Sep 26, 2005, 4:16 PM
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I think that before anybody starts saying that chipping is absolutly not acceptable, you must first consider that many classic climbes throughout the world have minor or sometimes even major "modifications" that many people dont even know about. If you have ever climbed in Rifle, Shelf, Boulder Canyon, Elevenmile Canyon, Smith Rocks, Mt. Charlston, Mt. Potasi, or any "classic" trad climb that was once and aid route, chances are you have climbed on a chipped route without even knowing it. While i dont support modification to take a climb that has asthetic value and drilling it down (how many beautiful cracks in the garden of the gods were beaten into submission by pin scars, and now have become hidiously ugly?), but i do support a few enhanced holds during blank sections to make a classic climb. New routing is like art, if you make sure the chipped holds are completly hidden and contribute to the flow, then enhance them. I will almost gaurantee that no one will be able to tell the difference.

Had it not been for the french ethics (sport climbing, rap bolting, ect.) i gaurantee we would not have nealry as many people climbing and ENJOYING the sport as we do now.

Mabe we should quite complaining and just climb. eh?


mcfoley


Sep 26, 2005, 4:17 PM
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NO, NO, NO...


Partner gunksgoer


Sep 26, 2005, 4:33 PM
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In reply to:
considering the direction the thread is going I can't help but mention that the name of the route above is "the French Connection"

:lol:

Its also known as "jackhammered". Pretty much sums it up.


kyote321


Sep 26, 2005, 4:49 PM
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'Using one and making one are two totaly different things '

why?


stabla


Sep 26, 2005, 4:54 PM
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Chipping is NEVER acceptable
NEVER!


Partner tgreene


Sep 26, 2005, 5:09 PM
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:idea: ...French Aiding... :idea:

http://www.umassd.edu/...etch1-jackhammer.jpg


Partner tgreene


Sep 26, 2005, 5:09 PM
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http://www.coloradonma.org/...ammer-compressor.jpg


Partner tgreene


Sep 26, 2005, 5:12 PM
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http://www.kentworld.com/canada/jackhammer.gif


Partner tgreene


Sep 26, 2005, 5:15 PM
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A typical home climbing wall... IN FRANCE!

http://www.great-river.com/pix/jackhammer.jpg


Partner tgreene


Sep 26, 2005, 5:18 PM
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Route setting...

http://www.nma.gov.au/...ackhammer%203-27.jpg


Partner tgreene


Sep 26, 2005, 5:21 PM
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Gear rack...

http://www.miconproducts.com/...khammer_steel_03.jpg


Partner tgreene


Sep 26, 2005, 5:23 PM
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trad gear...

http://www.cobhonline.com/...lhire/jackhammer.jpg


Partner tgreene


Sep 26, 2005, 5:26 PM
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French 'Retro-Betty'

http://www.great-river.com/pix/retro-betty.jpg


Partner tgreene


Sep 26, 2005, 5:31 PM
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Traversing~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~>

http://www.aaps.k12.mi.us/...iles/jackhammer4.jpg


Partner tgreene


Sep 26, 2005, 5:32 PM
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climbing comp............................ IN FRANCE :wink:

http://www.ecommcode.com/...m/const/full/090.jpg


Partner tgreene


Sep 26, 2005, 5:35 PM
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Preparing for a V4, while the spotter watches...

http://www.uswaterproofing.com/images/pic1pg3.jpg


Partner tgreene


Sep 26, 2005, 5:40 PM
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Poseur celebrating a redpoint! :lol: :lol: :lol: 8^)

http://www.foamprops.com/...llsize/jackhamlg.jpg

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