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** Censorship At Rc.com!! **
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Partner rrrADAM


Aug 19, 2003, 10:40 AM
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Understood... Our priorities are messed up. I will call Tim on the phone, and tell him to take some time off from his job and stop trying to facilitate a move to the West Coast, just to focus on this. Since many of you are not willing to wait any longer.

Does that sound fair enough ??? :roll:


Partner sauron


Aug 19, 2003, 10:52 AM
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It has been a week since the post was deleted, I hardly think that constitutes "NOW." In my mind the above speaks for itself. This still leads me the question how much importance the site places on resolving this event.

Let's have a lesson about priorities:

1. Tim works a paying job.
2. Said paying job, is what in part contributes to keeping this site running.
3. Tim volunteers his time for this website.

And you want Tim to take time away from the job that is in part responsible for keeping this website running, to cater to a few of you who don't have the time of day to wait until he has a spare moment - so he can NOT make money, and find out what happened?

Someone explain this logic to me?

- d.


Partner tim


Aug 19, 2003, 11:01 AM
Post #203 of 266 (16122 views)
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So are we or are we not waiting on a verdict from Tim? You mods seem to be implying that we are not, "move on there is nothing to see."
If we are not it would of been nice if you let us know around 5 days ago.

Tim has been climbing in the Needles for the past 3 days, thanks to the generosity of his employer in scheduling an earlier flight out here.

Tim views the working on the website 'rockclimbing.com' as sometimes secondary to 'going rock climbing', since the two are mutually exclusive.

Tim will make semi-public a verdict shortly (to the mods & eds) and at that point, will stop referring to himself in this obnoxious third-person style, and the individual(s) involved in the fiasco can choose to take responsibility, or perhaps will choose not to be a mod. But that will be their choice when confronted with the log entries.

As previously stated, this is the last time we will have a question about 'who deleted a thread', because auditing was turned on Thursday night (one of the last things I committed before leaving for California).

As far as my 'responsibility' to the site users -- I do what I can, but I do not want to get burnt out. Trevor tried very hard to keep everyone happy, and the strain (plus his pursuit of an advanced degree, his son growing up, and his acquisition of a new house) made it impossible for him to remain involved in the site. I would like to reduce the number of things that depend on 'Tim-and-only-Tim' for resolution, since there are a number of highly competent developers (khanom, biff, and sauron come to mind) who can often step in to resolve code issues, and Adam's staff of, shall we say, 'social engineers', is better suited than any of us code monkeys, to resolve questions of who-did-what-why.

When I am certain that my findings are unimpeachable, and that I am not going to falsely implicate a volunteer who freely contributes their time to the site, then I will write up a forensic piece detailing what the records show. Until then, all I can say is that I have never seen any one of the mods or admins act in a fashion that was intentionally destructive or spiteful towards the users. The provision of a timely backup of the thread's contents by a member of the community is further evidence of the resilience the site strives for. And the routesdb issue is not going to be possible again -- I have purchased a second server for the site, specifically to test the impact of upgrades. With 5 million visits a month, we can no longer afford to have a single point of failure (this goes for people as well as hardware -- I do not want to be the end-of-the-line for audits in the future, when an audit log is both better and simpler to use).

I hope this answers some questions and brings the discussion up to date.


murf


Aug 19, 2003, 11:16 AM
Post #204 of 266 (16122 views)
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Re: ** Censorship At Rc.com!! ** [In reply to]
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I hope this answers some questions and brings the discussion up to date.

Not really, 3 days at the Needles? What did ya do? Post a TR here and maybe a mod can move the thread to where noone can find it.


dingus


Aug 19, 2003, 11:22 AM
Post #205 of 266 (16122 views)
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Someone explain this logic to me?

I'd be happy to oh Dark Lord. It's a time honored personality-based usenet flame war technique based upon animosity. It's a 12-step program. You too can learn to flame like the big boys, In fact, if you apply these techniques to anyone BUT a bigboy you are using illegal firepower and this of course is grounds for banning. Using this stuff on stfu N00bs!!!11 or those who lack adequate supplies of testosterone is considered unsportsman like conduct at best and e-murder at worst. Anyway, it goes like this:

1. Develop feelings of animosity toward another poster (or lordly admin)
2. Get involved in one or more massive flame war with said individual
3. Brood over the perceived wrongs that have been committed against you
4. Nurse grudges until they flower into true contempt
5. Read all of your target's posts and seek out any opening, any opportunity, to stick the knife in and give it a twist.
6. Study and learn your opponent's tendencies and weaknesses and exploit them at every opportunity
7. Enlist others in your jihad. Spur and prod them on, throw gasoline on their flames, do what ever it takes to get others to throw down on the object of your desire
8. Stand back and chuckle at your target's discomfort
9. Whittle away at them, at every chance, over the years if you must, until you have successfully besmirched them in the eyes of the innocent
10. Make their lives miserable, repeatedly, and never give up, ever
11. Wear em down until they just leave in disgust
12. Declare victory and move on to the next conquest

Sound about right? Guess what? It works. I myself have had it done to me and I've returned the favor on a couple of people. According to what I've read in my short here it has been successfully deployed against moderators too. When one of you falls it makes the rest of you all the more vulnerable to attack. (doesn't mean you are equally succeptable to defeat though)

Now as Mad-Stu found out, the Wizard of OZ can nuke you here and that is that. We don't have such devices on usenet and have to rely upon Mutually Assured Destruction to keep the peace (this works too as I once purposely set out to demonstrate)

In the end it comes down to animosity, stubbornness and staying power.
It really does. It isn't about Stu or Pete, really, vs. rc.com. It IS about Stu or Pete and Tim or Adam or, well, you get the picture. It still takes two to tango.

Bottom line? Suppression of homo-erotic urges is the most likely candidate.

Cheers!
DMT


passthepitonspete


Aug 19, 2003, 11:46 AM
Post #206 of 266 (16122 views)
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"Tim will make semi-public a verdict shortly (to the mods & eds) and at that point, will stop referring to himself in this obnoxious third-person style, and the individual(s) involved in the fiasco can choose to take responsibility, or perhaps will choose not to be a mod. But that will be their choice when confronted with the log entries....

When I am certain that my findings are unimpeachable ... then I will write up a forensic piece detailing what the records show. "


As Handel wanted to write in Messiah, but didn't:

"Hal-le-freaking-lu-jah!"

[Dr. Piton notes that you are beginning to talk like him. He wonders if this is good or not. He also thanks you for your excellent and long-awaited answer, and awaits the "verdict", whatever it may be. He would also like you to know that Dr. Piton is not "against RC.com" - quite the contrary. For where else could he hang his helmet?]

And like, thanks, eh? Good thing one of us knows his priorities, and goes climbing. Sometimes I really need to get a life.......

Sheesh.


alpnclmbr1


Aug 19, 2003, 12:19 PM
Post #207 of 266 (16122 views)
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Re: ** Censorship At Rc.com!! ** [In reply to]
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Adam and Sauron, re-read my post. The only thing I see there is evidence to the reality that working on the database took priority over this issue. I donít see anything that refers to his real job.

My contention was that Adam was being inaccurate in his portrayal of your being busy with your real job, in light of the database work you found time to do on Thursday. (I am not disagreeing with the stance that what Tim did accomplish is probably more worthwhile for the site.)


Tim, congrats on finding time to spend time in the Needles. I think it is the best crag there is. I did not make an issue of the weekend since I felt safe in assuming that you were off climbing.


In light of the information in Timís post, it appears that there is more to this then I would of thought. It didnít occur to me that a mod would have to be confronted with the facts as shown by an investigation of the logs. My expectation was that you were going to say it was a glitch or something to that effect.

As I said before I tend to have a suspicious mind when it comes to "authority figures," and there was some basis for questioning the way this event was going. Don't take it personally, as it is directed against your position, not you as a person.


passthepitonspete


Aug 19, 2003, 12:53 PM
Post #208 of 266 (16122 views)
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Tim has assured me via PM he is hot on the case! So that's good news.

Let's let him figure it out, eh?


alpnclmbr1


Aug 19, 2003, 12:59 PM
Post #209 of 266 (16122 views)
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So now your the voice of reason.
haha. :roll:


passthepitonspete


Aug 19, 2003, 1:11 PM
Post #210 of 266 (16122 views)
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I know, I know....

...the irony has not escaped my attention.

Sheesh.


justsendingits


Aug 19, 2003, 10:41 PM
Post #211 of 266 (16122 views)
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Ok,I have two questions,as I have am still on the on ramp to the info highway and don't understand all the internet ebonics(sp?).


What exactly is tarpiting someone?Is it like a yellow card or a red card in soccer?Is it the same thing as being banned?

2---Why did this thread have over 8,000 hits a few days ago and now has 5,000?


alpnclmbr1


Aug 19, 2003, 10:48 PM
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Tarpitting means they put a time delay between each post you can make, ie one per hour.

post view count right now is 6062


justsendingits


Aug 19, 2003, 11:17 PM
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It was 5,000 before I left for work this afternoon.

So why was it 8,000 hits 2 days ago and now it's 6,000?


jobial


Aug 20, 2003, 6:20 AM
Post #214 of 266 (16122 views)
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Ok, got my coffee here - check

Cheese danish - check

15 minutes before I gotta start doing work...

ok people, can I have my drama fix now?

*slaps arm at elbow to make the vein rise, pulls keyboard closer*

How many posts you think you can get in before 9:30 est?


fear


Aug 20, 2003, 7:28 AM
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FIFTEEN PAGES OF THIS BULLSH!T!

Comon people, you need to get a life. This site is free, you have NO REASON or right to complain.


-Fear


jobial


Aug 20, 2003, 7:47 AM
Post #216 of 266 (16122 views)
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That's right Fear, let it all out. Let your dismay, your revulsion, your abhorrence free onto the page. Ohh and the icing of hypocrisy....

*shudder*

Thank you


kyhangdog


Aug 20, 2003, 7:57 AM
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Fear cursed... I think he should be banned.


dingus


Aug 20, 2003, 8:57 AM
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FIFTEEN PAGES OF THIS BULLSH!T!

Comon people, you need to get a life. This site is free, you have NO REASON or right to complain.


-Fear
But... but.... but... you're complaining.

no fear

DMT


passthepitonspete


Aug 20, 2003, 9:49 AM
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Actually, Rich's concern is valid.

One of the ways that you measure interest, attention and concern is by looking at the number of hits a post receives.

Rich and I were joking the other day that this "censorship post" didn't have as many hits as the "Camp 5" post, and I predicted that the censorship issue would overtake the Camp 5 issue, because censorship is a predictable "hot button".

I distinctly remember 8000 hits on this post. I remember, because Rich PM'd me with the numbers. It was one of our "get a life" PM exchanges, because something as stupid as hits shouldn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

Or should it?

Consider this. What if someone were trying to divert attention away from a sensitive issue? An easy way to make something appear less important would to somehow reduce its hit count.

I am quite certain this post was over 8000 hits.

SURELY someone isn't trying to cover this up?

Tim has promised me an answer to why the first Camp 5 post was deleted, and I verily believe he will provide it.

But I sure as hell want to know what happened to 3000 hits! I have never seen this happen before on the history of this website!

What happened?

[Is]that dramatic enough for ya, mate? Geez, doesn't this thing EVER END???]


jobial


Aug 21, 2003, 6:59 AM
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Something screwy with this thread - says it has 16 pages of posts but if you go to page 16 it says no post exists. This happened yesterday on another thread. Now that I've posted maybe it'll show up on the 16th page but someone may want to look into this phenomenon as it may indicate a larger more serious problem with the threads.


jabtocrag


Aug 21, 2003, 7:13 AM
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Something screwy with this thread - says it has 16 pages of posts but if you go to page 16 it says no post exists. This happened yesterday on another thread. Now that I've posted maybe it'll show up on the 16th page but someone may want to look into this phenomenon as it may indicate a larger more serious problem with the threads.


This happens every now and then with threads...seems random. Maybe Tim has an idea why!!


cass


Aug 21, 2003, 8:06 AM
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it happens at the end of a page, if it happens and it says there are 16 pages, go to page 15, page 16 turns up on the next post or two


rockvoyager


Aug 21, 2003, 8:07 AM
Post #223 of 266 (16118 views)
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Ok,I have two questions,as I have am still on the on ramp to the info highway and don't understand all the internet ebonics(sp?).

Sorry to get off thread but..... That was a stroke of genuis mate. I now have a name for net-speak. E-bonics, as opposed to the infamous eubonics of Oakland, Ca fame. I wil use this name from now on when explaining net-speak to net newbies. Love it.....

Brilliant

Brad


atg200


Aug 21, 2003, 8:26 AM
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i am pretty sure the "no post for this topic" on the last page happens when people delete their own posts, so the number of visible posts is less than the 16 pages but the total number of posts made is great than the 16 pages. i don't think there is any conspiracy there - just a minor display bug.


dingus


Aug 21, 2003, 9:00 AM
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In reply to:
i am pretty sure the "no post for this topic" on the last page happens when people delete their own posts, so the number of visible posts is less than the 16 pages but the total number of posts made is great than the 16 pages. i don't think there is any conspiracy there - just a minor display bug.

While the chain of events is of course beyond me, I've seen it a number of times recently that my own post seems to cause this. I post, the screen offers to let me view my post and when I click on the button to do so it says "No Topic Exists." My post will inevitably be the preceding one. The No topic thing seems to hang around till someone deletes it?

I've never deleted a post in conjunction with this problem. Maybe it's a combo of a long lead time between quoting another post and then hitting the submit button and another user deletes a post during that time?

Cheers,
DMT

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