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why do people bash bouldering so much??
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xanx


Aug 28, 2003, 10:36 AM
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why do people bash bouldering so much??
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ok first off, i'm a boulderer. there. i said it. now, i am just curious why boulderers get bashed so much. people tend to look down on boulderers and characterize them as young punks with big pillows who don't have the balls to lead. they disrespect boulderers. and they very seldom give good reasons why.

personally, i prefer bouldering for a number of reasons. one is b/c it is easy to do: you don't need much gear or technical expertise. i also like the emphasis on purity of climbing and on pushing yourself as hard as possible and overcoming ur limitations. however, i have respect for other types of climbing as well. i respect sport climbers for pulling absolutely disgustingly hard moves on lead and doing some of the sickest lines possible. i respect trad climbers for the balls to actually trust that tiny chunk of metal wedged into that micro crack with a big whipper. i respect ice climbers b/c i can see the purity in it and the beauty of it (plus the balls to trust a screw u put into the ice by hand to save ur life!). Aid climbers are just insane. A5 climbing sounds to me like a very good way to get a free trip home in a timber box. and, apparently, A5 climbers have to be veritable encyclopedias of technical knowledge. And then there are the "jack of all trades" alpine hardmen who do it all in mega-epics up the most formidable peaks.

i just want to hear people actually give reasons why they don't like boulderers. i also want to point out pre-emptively that, currently, the hardest moves that have ever been pulled on rope are around V11 or so (Realization crux). the hardest boulder problems are around V15. i don't think i need to point out that it is going to be quite a while before anyone even thinks about pulling a V15 50' off the ground.... so for shear difficulty of moves, bouldering wins hands down.


beercanclimber


Aug 28, 2003, 10:50 AM
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i can hear the flame throwers click on from a block away.


craggy


Aug 28, 2003, 10:55 AM
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It's cause of people like you that non-boulderers bash boulderers. I'm a boulderer and I need no reason as to why I boulder. Why should I give a rats ass what a lead climber thinks? Why should it get to you so much? Hell just climb and f**k em all.


ikefromla


Aug 28, 2003, 10:58 AM
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because they're weak.. yeah, i said it.


karmaklimber


Aug 28, 2003, 11:00 AM
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Xanx brings up a good point in a humble manner. I don't think its a matter of whether or not other climbers' opinions will get to you or not, but more so out of curiosity and interest. Whatever people say, whether they'll hate or support, you'll still boulder regardless.

I think he's just looking for reasons why other people dislike bouldering rather than looking for a particular reason to boulder himself. (please correct me if I'm wrong)


xanx


Aug 28, 2003, 11:02 AM
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Hell just climb and f**k em all.

right... that's a great attitude to have.... really gonna make a lot of friends like that....

this site has really gone down hill in the last few months.... when i first came here trolls and flames came every now and then... now real responses come every now and then in between the flames and trolls.


boulderman


Aug 28, 2003, 11:05 AM
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Xanx,

Before coming to RC.com I would have thought you were crazy for saying boulderers are bashed. But here it seems to be the rule. I spend time training in a gym and get outside to boulder too. I will use the gym as an example, since it is much more of a social activity. In the gym, it seems like boulderers are the best climbers, any moderate to hard boulderer in the gym could get on a sport route and cruise what most of the regular route climbers would shy away from. I think most sport climbers respect boulderers.

I think one reason boulders are bashed is jealousy. Most boulderers are young, strong, and talented climbers pulling moves that most route climbers will never see 50ft. of the ground. I think that technically, bouldering is what will push climbing to new levels in the future. Some of the hard-core boulderers will some day put on a harness and send sport routes or even trad routes that may be impossible now (i.e. Chris Sharma). Some will never put on a harness, but will send a V16 with moves that even the best trad climber couldn't hope to make in their lifetime. Maybe some of the older climbing community doesn't want to realize this and are in denial.

Another reason is just the climbing culture. As people get older, they become set in their ways. I would say on average that most trad climbers and aid climbers are a little older than the average boulderer. Maybe their bodies won't allow them to continually punish there bodies on a boulder so they choose to take it easier physically and focus on the mental aspect of climbing. Some of these old purists just don't understand the new trends of climbing. Although they may be very good climbers, they will bitch and moan about every new person they see at "their" crag. They will make fun of your slippers while they climb in the old big wall high tops, and they will call you a gym rat even though you are outside! Either the mock what they do not understand, or they may just be a little bitter.

Maybe a little more respect for all styles is due. At this point I have o interest on getting on a trad route, just as they may not want to touch a boulder problem. Bottom line is, Bouldering is rock climbing! And it is very, very hard rock climbing.

BTW, as a side note about the hole plastic vs. rock thing. Some of the hardest routes I have ever seen have been in the gym! So it may not be real rock, it is hard climbing!


Bouderman


beyond_gravity


Aug 28, 2003, 11:05 AM
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I ask the question why should people respect bouldering?

Don't get me wrong, I like bouldering, and do it on a regular basis...however, I don't have much respect for people that climb V10, at least not in the same way I have respect for Mark Twight and Berry Blanchard (sp?).

I hold Doug Scott in higher regards then Dave Graham. I probably have more respect for Peter Zabrok then Lisa Rands.

Why? Because courage earns respect, crimp strength doesn’t.

The other thing is this purity thing…anyone who has done a multi-pitch trad route in the backcountry would never say bouldering is more pure. At least to me, there is nothing better then getting to the top of a route and enjoying the gentle wind, peace, and unpolluted sound as I belay the second up with nothing but air between me and the tree tops below.

The longer the journey, the richer the experience.


dsafanda


Aug 28, 2003, 11:07 AM
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In reply to:
i'm a boulderer.

I don't think people bash bouldering so much as they bash the concept of being a "boulderer". I'm not sure I even know what that means.

All "climbers" I know enjoy bouldering. It's fun, challenging and a great way to get strong and build technique but it's just one small facet of rock climbing. If there is any ridicule directed at bouldering I think it is primarily skepticism for the idea of limiting oneself to nothing but bouldering. I think those of you that follow this path are missing out on much of what climbing has to offer. All that said, to each his own. It's all good.


Partner rrrADAM


Aug 28, 2003, 11:09 AM
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I don't see that all the time... If anything, I see more boulderers trashing other styles of climbing, than I do others bashing bouldering.

We all may not be brothers and sisters in the same style, but we are all cousins in that we climb, so we all have the last name: Climber


It's all climbing brutha !!!


rockfax


Aug 28, 2003, 11:11 AM
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Because it's trendy to bash something that is... well....trendy.

Plus a lot of young people do it and it's fashionable to bash youngsters.

Truth be known just as many gray hairs do it as well, but there's nothing wrong with a good bashing now and again.

Mick


norskagent


Aug 28, 2003, 11:27 AM
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ummm crimp strength does earn respect as well as courage...I'm always impressed when I see someone do something on rock I can't or won't do.


kman


Aug 28, 2003, 11:27 AM
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In reply to:
Because courage earns respect, crimp strength doesn’t

Damn straight!


mother_sheep


Aug 28, 2003, 11:31 AM
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I'm a bouldering scene basher but I don't bash bouldering. I've only been to a few boulders where there weren't a bunch of loud mouth kids hanging out in their little beanies just sitting on their little butts "recovering" from their last set. Regardless, to be good at bouldering you have to be strong. I have respect for all climbers who are true to their sport, whether it be bouldering, aiding, trad, sport, whatever. It's the scene though that turns me off.


curt


Aug 28, 2003, 11:33 AM
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i am just curious why boulderers get bashed so much. people tend to look down on boulderers and characterize them as young punks with big pillows who don't have the balls to lead. they disrespect boulderers. and they very seldom give good reasons why.
I think the answer lies in some weird form of etnocentrism. That is, people tend to bash what others do because they feel their own activities (within the sport of climbing) are somehow better.

I think the responses to this question that cite age as a reason are somewhat off-point, except to the extent that the obnoxious "boom-box" toting boulderers--who are highly visible--are usually young. There are plenty of us old guys who have been climbing in all forms (trad, sport, walls, bouldering, etc.) for more years than most young climbers have been alive. And guess what? Many of us now prefer bouldering to other types of climbing. So, to say that it is the old guys who are set in their ways that are bashing bouldering is, I think, a mistake.

Curt


javaguy


Aug 28, 2003, 11:36 AM
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People who only boulder tend to look at themselves as climbers. And people who don't climb tend to look at them as climbers too. But real climber don't want to be put in the same drawer as boulderers. It is big difference between bouldering and climbing. :?


curt


Aug 28, 2003, 11:37 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Because courage earns respect, crimp strength doesn’t

Damn straight!

What makes you think these two things are mutually exclusive? Feel free to come bouldering with me sometime at Black Mountain or Joshua Tree.

Curt


wc


Aug 28, 2003, 11:40 AM
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i am just curious why boulderers get bashed so much. people tend to look down on boulderers and characterize them as young punks with big pillows

one is b/c it is easy to do: you don't need much gear or technical expertise.

Some people would argue that you just gave all the reasons yourself.

Boulderer's are lazy... hell, that's why I do it, because I don't want to hike 45 minutes and climb 80+ feet just to fall and try it again. I would much rather sit on my crash pad and shoot the poo... I'm lazy.

Secondly, boulderers are usually either young punks, like you, or old punks, like BVB... all with big pillows. They either lack the social skills to behave properly in crowded bouldering areas (young), or they have spent their life refining said social skills in such a way as to subtly offend and burn off everyone in their immediate vicinity. This takes getting used to and folks who are new to bouldering generally have a hard time adjusting.

In reply to:
the hardest boulder problems are around V15. i don't think i need to point out that it is going to be quite a while before anyone even thinks about pulling a V15 50' off the ground.... so for shear difficulty of moves, bouldering wins hands down.

I heard a rumor that Sharma pulled off the ground for five seconds on two holds that nobody else can even imagine pulling on!!! Everyone was so amazed at the pure difficulty of this feat that they all started training JUST TO PULL OFF THE GROUND ON SICK HOLDS! Sherman is writing a guide book to all the Pull Off the Ground problems in Bishop and has even started a new rating system with "Sharma's POG" being rated POG 10 as a reference.

POGGERS don't even need pads since they aren't going anywhere, which reduces the gear and makes it simpler and harder and purer than bouldering.

For years I have been HANGING on sick holds all over the western US, I'd say I pretty much invented the sport of HANGING, nobody was pushing the limits of HANGING until I hit the scene. No pad, no shoes, just me and my chalk... it doesn't get any simpler than that. I've got some HANG projects for Sharma to try once he sends all his POG projects in Bishop and realizes that the simplest, purest form of climbing is simply HANGING!

It don't get much better than that...


jipstyle


Aug 28, 2003, 11:41 AM
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In reply to:
All "climbers" I know enjoy bouldering. It's fun, challenging and a great way to get strong and build technique but it's just one small facet of rock climbing. If there is any ridicule directed at bouldering I think it is primarily skepticism for the idea of limiting oneself to nothing but bouldering. I think those of you that follow this path are missing out on much of what climbing has to offer. All that said, to each his own. It's all good.

Well said!

Anyone who limits themselves to one aspect of climbing is missing out on a great deal.

If I may expand on your point, I'd like to point out that the two 'forms' of climbing that receive the most negative attention are the two forms that are insular ... bouldering, and sport climbing. When I say 'insular', I mean that they do not include aspects of the other types. For example, a trad climber pulls moves similar (though perhaps not as hard) to those pulled by boulderers and sport climbers ... all three use free climbing. For trad climbers, the free climbing is part of climbing ... for the other two, they are climbing. Aid climbers also free climb, but add aid to the list of 'tricks' they use to get up the rock.

In other words, to a trad climber or an aid climber, people who only free climb, whether over a pad or while clipping bolts, are missing an integral part of the climbing experience. Multi-pitch sport climbs are rare; multi-pitch boulders are called free solos. Multi-pitch trad and aid routes are, of course, a significant part of the experience.

What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that sport and bouldering are limited aspects of climbing, and for some, this is not the spirit of climbing.

Having said all of that ... to all of you who bash what other people do for fun: STFU and climb. As long as they don't impact your climbing (a different discussion altogether) it ain't none of your business and you only make yourself look like a$$holes.

:)


jonlatner


Aug 28, 2003, 11:41 AM
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I don't see that all the time... If anything, I see more boulderers trashing other styles of climbing, than I do others bashing bouldering.

We all may not be brothers and sisters in the same style, but we are all cousins in that we climb, so we all have the last name: Climber


It's all climbing brutha !!!

In my short lived climbing experience I have met only a few hardcore boulderers. They showed me a new way to climb, one that was riskier, harder, and in some ways more relaxing and fun (i.e. social). That being said, when one in the group took a day off to lead or top rope the comment was not have a great day, rather it was why, why would you waste a day? Thats not right...I agree with the person I quoted, to me its all climbing.


hellclimber


Aug 28, 2003, 11:52 AM
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In other words, to a trad climber or an aid climber, people who only free climb, whether over a pad or while clipping bolts, are missing an integral part of the climbing experience. ...
...
What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that sport and bouldering are limited aspects of climbing, and for some, this is not the spirit of climbing.
...

If I understand this correctly you are saying that free soloing is missing an integral part of the climbing experience and is not in the spirit of climbing as people who do it only free climb. Get a grip on reality. Free climbing is a major part of the spirit of climbing.

As for bashing bouldering; enjoy your rock hopping. I need some exposure to get the adrenaline flowing but to each his/her own.

hellclimber


boulderman


Aug 28, 2003, 11:54 AM
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Curt, your explanations sounds good, what you said, is what I was trying to get at when I said they were set in their ways, (style). You just said it better. I think I stressed the age thing too much. I'm not a young boulderer either. I think a few specific unfortunate incidents have clouded my view of the "older trad climber".

Also, When I started climbing I climbed sport routes and then started to use bouldering as a training method. Although I do get on an occasional route, all I really want to do is push myself harder on tough boulder problems.

Also, There are a lot of bouldering problems that take courage. Ask J. Kehl about Evilution.... 50ft. V12/13? Why not just call it a 5.14 free Solo?

Have you "courage/not crimp" climbers tried topping out a V7 slopey mantle with a high heel hook 15+ ft. high ?


maynardgkrebs


Aug 28, 2003, 11:58 AM
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Bouldering is fun. It defintiely is a legitmate form of climbing, but it is also a silly trend, which will pass. It's ridiculous that in the magazines, equal importance is given to some horrendous Himalayan big wall and another v15 send by Fred Nicole.
There are lots of reason why boulderers get dissed.
One of the more annoying aspects of bouldering is the obsession over ratings. I think the V-system is hilarious. Sherman made it up as a joke. A couple years back, he even wrote an article wherein he explained that it was a joke, but nobody cares--V15 sounds so much cooler than the old-school rating of B2. Go to the discussion board at www.frontrangebouldering.com and read a few posts there if you don't think boulderers are obsessed with ratings.
The idea that it's something new is also funny. Bouldering is nothing new. Certain aspects of bouldering are new--Giant pads and sponsorship, for example. I'd say the main new thing about bouldering is mostly marketing. Magazines and manufacturers have realized that the majority of people will not be willing devote the time, money, and effort necessary to learn the craft of trad climbing. However, for less than a couple hundred bucks, you can buy some shoes, a chalkbag and a beanie hat. All that's left is to remove your shirt and voila--You're a climber! Commence spraying!


furbucket


Aug 28, 2003, 11:58 AM
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Because bouldering is climbing's lowest common denominator. Hey it says it right here:
http://www.hcn.org/...cle?article_id=14088
It must be true!

But seriously, I love bouldering. It's great training for real climbing. :)

Ok, I'll stop now.


rocknut1


Aug 28, 2003, 12:17 PM
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If they knock it they havent tried it or had someone kick their ass on a tough boulder problem. I lead climb,climb top rope , ice climb and winter mountaineer. I thought bouldering was for novices or people who did not want to get off the ground. Then I spent some time in the bouldering cave and on some tough outdoor problems and now I split my climbing and bouldering time 50 - 50. Climbing is a route with cruxes, bouldering is a crux.
I also found bouldering has made me a better climber.


dead_milkman


Aug 28, 2003, 12:30 PM
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...however, I don't have much respect for people that climb V10, at least not in the same way I have respect for Mark Twight and Berry Blanchard (sp?).

I hold Doug Scott in higher regards then Dave Graham. I probably have more respect for Peter Zabrok then Lisa Rands.

I have to wonder, and I appologize in advance for what's going to come off as confrontational, but have you actually met any of these people?

In reply to:
Why? Because courage earns respect, crimp strength doesn’t.

One can respect many different types of accomplishment, no?

Odd that you would mention "courage" and Twight, though. Many of his exploits seem to me to be the result of various things going on in his head, rather than courage. Anyway...

In reply to:
The other thing is this purity thing…anyone who has done a multi-pitch trad route in the backcountry would never say bouldering is more pure.

It's best to avoid blanket statements.

In reply to:
At least to me, there is nothing better then getting to the top of a route and enjoying the gentle wind, peace, and unpolluted sound as I belay the second up with nothing but air between me and the tree tops below.

How is this not possible on a boulder? On a hike? Canoeing down a river? One's church is what one makes of it.

In reply to:
The longer the journey, the richer the experience.

Again, best to avoid blanket statements.


wc


Aug 28, 2003, 12:32 PM
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Because bouldering is climbing's lowest common denominator.

No, its HANGING you fool. I sent a HANG 9 today at Roubidoux... got my eye on this killer little HANG 10 FA... just so happens it is on this killer 4 foot high wave wall so you have to arc your body just so in order to balance your body weight and hold the slopers... then there is the Left HANG 11 variation where you blow off one of the slopers and hang the crimp...

Man, I love hanging, it's so pure, so uncomplicated, it truely is climbing's lowest common denominator!


norskagent


Aug 28, 2003, 12:37 PM
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most hard sport routes, say at the new, involve significant sections of mindless "easy" climbing interspersed with "boulder" sections...so I just cut out all the easy crap and go boldering.


climber49er


Aug 28, 2003, 12:44 PM
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I boulder because it's fun.

I boulder because I am challenged by it.

I boulder because I can do it alone if I want.

I boulder because it's a great workout.

I boulder because I want to.

I boulder mostly because I don't know enough climbers that I can climb with on my schedule.

When I started climbing I didn't know what bouldering was. I thought climbing only involved ropes and big cliffs that freak me out. I haven't spent much time on a rope. I enjoy bouldering for what it is. If I ever get more time in on a rope, then good, I will enjoy that also. I will continue to boulder because I love it.

At the end of the day, it's all a nice day outside challenging my body and mind.


robmcc


Aug 28, 2003, 12:45 PM
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I would have thought it was obvious. People bash bouldering because bouldering isn't real climbing. It's kind of like slacklining. It's only on the site because some climbers do it, too.


jabtocrag


Aug 28, 2003, 12:48 PM
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I don't see that all the time... If anything, I see more boulderers trashing other styles of climbing, than I do others bashing bouldering.

We all may not be brothers and sisters in the same style, but we are all cousins in that we climb, so we all have the last name: Climber


It's all climbing brutha !!!


So beautiful...we're all family!! Talk about ur relatives you'd like to hide :lol:


dlintz


Aug 28, 2003, 12:49 PM
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This talk of hanging and pogging is making my tendons hurt.

I'll talke a multi-pitch trad route over bouldering anyday but calling it more pure....I disagree. Bouldering is all about the moves, trad is all about the moves + protection + rope + placements + belaying + ....


curt


Aug 28, 2003, 12:55 PM
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I would have thought it was obvious. People bash bouldering because bouldering isn't real climbing. It's kind of like slacklining. It's only on the site because some climbers do it, too.

Rather poor attempt at trolling, read Hillary's "Hotties" thread and try again. Its the gold-standard of all trolls.

Curt


robmcc


Aug 28, 2003, 1:02 PM
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I would have thought it was obvious. People bash bouldering because bouldering isn't real climbing. It's kind of like slacklining. It's only on the site because some climbers do it, too.

Rather poor attempt at trolling, read Hillary's "Hotties" thread and try again. Its the gold-standard of all trolls.

Curt

Well, that'd be because I'm not trolling. Teasing the original poster a bit, yes. Trolling, no. I'm kidding and I freely admit it. :D


xanx


Aug 28, 2003, 1:04 PM
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the sad thing is, i'm not exactly certain that was a troll...

one other thing i would like to mention: it takes an amazing amount of mental strength (or willpower or whatever) to make it up a hard trad lead or a crazy A5 pitch or whatever - you have to really really want it bad to even try something like that. people often cite the mental aspect of trad and aid, and i would second that. the main reason i have so much respect for hard trad and aid climbers is because they can keep it cool when there is so much danger.

however, making it up a V13 or harder boulder problem also requires just as much mental strength. you have to really know ur body and understand how it works and be able to tap into every reserve of strength to send something that hard. just think about it. even fred nicole probably doesn't just walk up to something like Dreamtime, eat a sandwitch, send it, and then go get a coffee. it requires A LOT of concentration. i bet we would all be very surprised (and i bet anatomy students would also be very surprised) if someone actually worked out the forces needed to pull the moves on something like Dreamtime or New Base Line. i would be surprised if they were within the limits of what human beings were previously thought capable of. just my theory.


wc


Aug 28, 2003, 1:19 PM
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I'll talke a multi-pitch trad route over bouldering anyday but calling it more pure....I disagree. Bouldering is all about the moves, trad is all about the moves + protection + rope + placements + belaying + ....

You can't boulder if you aren't hanging. You can't climb trad unless you are hanging... and you certainly have to Pull Off the Ground to get anywhere with any of them.

POGGING and HANGING are the ONLY pure forms of climbing... they are truely the essence of climbing


robmcc


Aug 28, 2003, 1:20 PM
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the sad thing is, i'm not exactly certain that was a troll...

Hope I cleared it up for you. I thought it was a question begging for such an answer, even if only in jest. If I have to give a serious response, I haven't gotten the impression bouldering is bashed at atll. To the contrary, I thought it was the "in" thing. As far as I'm concerned, climb whatever makes you happy and if you actually care what anyone else thinks of your climbing OR what you choose to climb, you may be doing it for the wrong reasons.


craggy


Aug 28, 2003, 1:28 PM
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Hell just climb and f**k em all.

right... that's a great attitude to have.... really gonna make a lot of friends like that....

this site has really gone down hill in the last few months.... when i first came here trolls and flames came every now and then... now real responses come every now and then in between the flames and trolls.

What I MEANT was f**k the people that BASH you (the boulderer) and stop fretting over it. As I said before, who really cares if some lame ass lead climber who can lead at a 5.10 says boulderers suck. Great climbers don't sit there and worry about what people say, they climb and have fun. That's what i was trying to say.

btw, I boulder exclusively! I love it and I laugh at the people who think bouldering is easy or for wimps and lazy people. hahahahahahahaha


floridaputz


Aug 28, 2003, 1:29 PM
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My Hiearchy for climbing

High altitude mountianeer/big wall climber
Alpine rock climber (trad)
Traditional Rock climber
Sport Climber


Boulderer


thinksinpictures


Aug 28, 2003, 1:29 PM
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Someone said at the beginning of this thread that it was going to become a flame war. Some people have tried to avoid this and posted thoughtful comments on the schism developing between different types of climbing (between bouldering and “the rest” in this case). Others, true to the form of RC.com, have simply lambasted individuals and groups for practice one form of climbing or another.

When I started climbing one of the first things that impressed itself on me was how freaking nice all of the climbers I met were. Whether outdoors or in the gym, stronger or more experienced climbers always encouraged me, which contributed so much to my already thorough enjoyment of the sport.

Recently I’ve seen a growing number of people, mostly on this and other climbing sites, who have decided that they need to express – often loudly and rudely – that the type of climbing that they choose to participate in is somehow “better” than other forms of climbing. I think this is really sad, not just because the climbing community used to be so welcoming, but also because climbing is reaching a historical point where some major decisions are going to have to be made by both climbers and land managers regarding land use, recreational access, environmental protection, and other issues that ALL climbers have to deal with whether they like it or not. I’m not interested in entertaining arguments about what forms of climbing have the most of the least impact or will be more or less affected by these issues/decisions. I have my own thoughts, but they are for another forum, or a PM if you’re interested. The fact is that to one degree or another, ALL OF US WILL BE AFFECTED and all of us need to be thinking about these issues with our common interest in mind.

On a more philosophical note, we all climb because we love it, and we know that most other people don’t understand this love. Certainly whether you love trad, sport, bouldering, aid, ice, or whatever (heaven forbid that you might love more than one!), enough of this love is shared between us that we can understand why others might enjoy a different aspect of climbing than us, no? I’ve never climbed trad, but I desperately want to learn. I’ve never climbed ice and I have no desire to. I can, however, understand why people might really love BOTH of these types of climbing. And regardless of their courage or their crimp strength, I respect them because of their DEVOTION to climbing. Again, something that we all share.

I’m haven’t bothered to specify what types of climbing I do enjoy and why, because it just doesn’t matter. You don’t see me going around telling basketball players that they’re sport sucks and mine rules. I climb for my reasons and they play basketball for theirs. Who knows, I might even enjoy climbing AND basketball. Or maybe I do one as conditioning for the other. Unfathomable, isn’t it?

I don’t think this is flame worthy, but I don’t think that about most of the stuff on this site, and yet I’m constantly proven wrong. If you wanna flame, PM me and don’t waste other people’s time.

I don't recall who said this or I'd give proper (and well deserved) credit: "It's all climbing brutha"


wc


Aug 28, 2003, 1:30 PM
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however, making it up a V13 or harder boulder problem also requires just as much mental strength. you have to really know ur body and understand how it works and be able to tap into every reserve of strength to send something that hard. just think about it.

You should really try HANGING at your absolute limit! Nothing takes more mental strength than holding onto a buttery sloper for 5 seconds. It is concentrated climbing in it's purest form! It's all the rage here in CA... rumor has it the next XGames will have a hangboard comp with HANGS set by some of the world's top hangers!


curt


Aug 28, 2003, 1:40 PM
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My Hiearchy for climbing

High altitude mountianeer/big wall climber
Alpine rock climber (trad)
Traditional Rock climber
Sport Climber


Boulderer

So, let's face it. you can't get both feet of the ground bouldering, right?

Curt


crackaddict


Aug 28, 2003, 1:48 PM
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I was thinking the other day about how people see climbers and why there has been a lot of trashing on all climbers and their impact in the recent years. There are alot more climbers now. It seems that we are becomeing more and more noticeable. The first people that are getting noticed are the ones closer to the ground. Which are the boulderers.

People are going to judge climbers by their first impresions. So if someone sees some guy trashing the areas and being a jerk. Then people are gonna come off saying that climbers or boulderers are a certain way. As for as other climbers seeing boulderers. It works the same way. It seems that Boulderers that stand out these days are comonly the young gym rats. Which are stereotypicaly young guys with attitudes and have no respect for the outdoors.
I go bouldering as well doing all sorts of other climbing. And don't wish to be classified as some bouldering punk. But I think that it is up to us to educate those around us about impact on the land and how we should present ourselves when we are outside.
It would'nt hurt any to help others around to help preserve climbing. It is a difficult thing to do since climbing is all about being free and being able to express yourself through it. But really how we act says a lot about who we are. And since people are all about first impressions. It is up to us to make good ones. I would hate seeing our sport suffer from the ignorance of lame people. Because the rest of us suffer form it..

Don't know if this helps anyting but it makes me feel good.

So all in all its not boulderers thats suck its people that suck.


dino


Aug 28, 2003, 2:13 PM
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I don't know anything about people dissing bouldering. I do know it is a great way to spend time cranking hard moves you (well, me anyway) wouldn't normally do on a multi-pitch. Where I boulder I can do three pitches of 5.9 moves in about an hour without doing the same move twice. Whew, good workout! It also gives me confidence for roped climbs. When I get into unfamiliar terrain or it gets a little sketchy working boulders allows me to trust that little nubin or know that I can hang on that crimper a little longer while plugging a piece. It has certainly improved my climbing. The only negative I can think of about boulding is that my best climbing partners don't like it.


photon


Aug 28, 2003, 2:18 PM
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gotta love bouldering
1. it's as fun as any type of climbing
2. it's reducing the lines at popular cliffs lately
3. power power power


dlintz


Aug 28, 2003, 2:19 PM
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You can't boulder if you aren't hanging. You can't climb trad unless you are hanging... and you certainly have to Pull Off the Ground to get anywhere with any of them.

Hmm, interesting. Let's take it one step further for absolute purity: TOUCHING!

"Touching" is where you actually touch the rock. You can't POG or HANG if you aren't TOUCHING. This is the essence of all disciplines.

"Dude, the sent this wicked T4+ touch problem yesterday, it took me three tries to figure out where to put my left thumb."

:lol:


curt


Aug 28, 2003, 2:23 PM
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No, no, no. "T" is already used for the "Troll" scale. You're going to need create a whole other rating system for touching. Hahahaha

Curt


flyinghatchet


Aug 28, 2003, 2:25 PM
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What about the "F" scale then, for "feel"?

G$


wc


Aug 28, 2003, 2:31 PM
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In reply to:
You can't boulder if you aren't hanging. You can't climb trad unless you are hanging... and you certainly have to Pull Off the Ground to get anywhere with any of them.

Hmm, interesting. Let's take it one step further for absolute purity: TOUCHING!

"Touching" is where you actually touch the rock. You can't POG or HANG if you aren't TOUCHING. This is the essence of all disciplines.

"Dude, the sent this wicked T4+ touch problem yesterday, it took me three tries to figure out where to put my left thumb."

:lol:

Now your just being silly. How could you possibly capture the essence of climbing by "touching" a rock? :roll: There isn't even an objective way to rate the problems? What is the point of "touching" a rock if you can't spray about how hard it was when you touched it that way? How would you ever know who the best "toucher" is... without meeting them (I mean ME) in person of course...

(yes, deep in my heart I know you are correct... touching rock is the essence of climbing... boiled down to its purest form... from now on I am a rock toucher... not a rock hanger... or rock climber... thanks for helping me see the only true path)


stewbabby


Aug 28, 2003, 2:40 PM
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Ok... I dont have time to read this entire thread, but ill put in my 2 cents.... i come from an area where there is great boldering..... BUT unfortunately some of the boldering areas here in the south have either been shut down or almost shut down on severa occasions.... Just to name a couple are hp40 and LRC.... Both of these areas have been shut down over the past few years..... One of the reasons that they were shut down (not the only reason) was because of young punk bolderers who think that they own the world.... The fact of the matter is that unless the rock is in your back yard you have NO say.... When a bunch of kids roll up on a group of rocks and start yelling profanities when they fall off of their latest v8 problem it looks bad to the landowner.... Also the younger generation of climbers seem to have a total lack of respect for other peoples property.... leaving their redbull cans, tape, and other crap everywhere..... I know that this is not all bolderers, but there are a lot of young people with maxi pads in the woods.....

[/rant]

stewart


dingus


Aug 28, 2003, 3:00 PM
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Because we deserve it.

DMT


shank


Aug 28, 2003, 3:02 PM
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I don't dislike bouldering, or boulderers. I dislike some peoples attitudes.
I like to boulder. there is no doubt in my mind that it is a good way to get strong. I also lead sport. I am scared of trad,but do it on occasion.

I think the people with the bad attitudes sti nk and I don't want to be around them. But I have never been around a CLIMBERwith a bad attitude.

I think the reason most people bash bouldering is because of the internet persona most boulderer portray. Nothing personal.

"The best climber is the one having the most fun"

Do what you like and don't judge other people by what they like.


junaid


Aug 28, 2003, 3:02 PM
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because they have the bad attitude.

I've been climbing for a year now and I just bought my first sport rack. The way I look at is this; I climb to: have fun, sweat, get better, and enjoy nature. I don't climb to: think I'm all that and a bag of chips, get down on those that can't climb the stuff I can, get down on those that climb different stuff.

I live on Oahu, the main climbing area is nice, but sometimes I like to go to Waimea Bay and boulder. the sand is a great crash pad and the ocean (and girls in bikinis) provide excellent scenery. so to all you haters, just climb and don't get down on people because the climbing they do is not the same type as what you do.

to answer your question though, its the height thing, they think that boulderers just climb 'safe' stuff with no potential for danger. they don't realize that the best climbing is when you are safe and having fun.

peace----


climbingjunky


Aug 28, 2003, 3:57 PM
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There's a lot of negativity on this issue. I'm not sure what the climbing scene is like where you all live but all the climbers I've met and spoken to sport, trad, bouldering have all been nice and helpful towards each other. None of this aweful vibe. For those of you that dis other climnbing styles or make bouldering look bad, you don't deserve any respect. Find a new hobby! :o


moabbeth


Aug 28, 2003, 4:29 PM
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I think there's kind of a perception that boulderers are a little more cocky, more likely to be spraylords about what they're working, it's more of a competitve and social activity rather than being roped up climbing up a rock with your partner. I think it's cause it attracts a younger crowd with a lot more testosterone pumping than other forms of climbing. You don't often see someone 8 pitches up a trad climb with 5 friends looking on yelling "f*cking send it dude, send it!!!". Not that I personally think there's anything wrong with that, but bouldering is an activity that doesn't get far off the ground, thus more people are going to see and hear what you're doing if you're only 5 feet off the ground as opposed to being roped up 300 ft off the deck. And as in every crowd, a few loudmouthed obnoxious people can get an overall behaved crew a bad name.

And please don't flame me for this observation, but I see more bragging and flame waring among boulderers on this site than any other area. You don't see aid climbers bashing back and forth about whether they used a hook or a leeper cam on a move, but you often see big time wars going on about what's a real V3 and how there's no way someone climbed a v8, etc. Just an observation.


climber49er


Aug 28, 2003, 6:29 PM
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WC is gettin' freaky...

Let's take it a step further...

Purity = Mental Sending

No need to mess up the fragile rock ecosystems. Just find a line and MS it!
Ahhhh, satisfying.


climber49er


Aug 28, 2003, 6:31 PM
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Dude, I just got the FA of the worlds first MS17. Crazy gnarly highball at that! Look into my mind and imagine it with me!


frankfurter


Aug 28, 2003, 6:40 PM
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I am a boulderer, does anyone wanna front? That's what I thought! Ya can't hate on the bouldering foos!


tenn_dawg


Aug 28, 2003, 6:45 PM
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Dude, I just got the FA of the worlds first MS17. Crazy gnarly highball at that! Look into my mind and imagine it with me!

Dude, I send MS17 in my flip flops.

Travis


bvb


Aug 28, 2003, 7:21 PM
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hi everyone,

i'm relatively new to the sport and some of this conversation has confused me, but i really want to learn.

what exactly is bouldering?

it just jumpng from boulder to boulder like in the movies? maybe that's why climbers make fun of boulderers -- because it's not really climbing?


moabbeth


Aug 28, 2003, 7:32 PM
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[quote="curt"]
In reply to:
I think the responses to this question that cite age as a reason are somewhat off-point, except to the extent that the obnoxious "boom-box" toting boulderers--who are highly visible--are usually young. There are plenty of us old guys who have been climbing in all forms (trad, sport, walls, bouldering, etc.) for more years than most young climbers have been alive. Curt

Great point. Valid one too. But I think the bad rap that bouldering sometimes gets from non-boulderers is because of the point you mentioned above. It only takes a few loudmouths oozing 'tude to give a bad perception of the sport to non-boulderers. I dunno, is it cause of the gym climate that helps breed that then it makes it's way outside? Or was bouldering always like that over the years and just not as high profile?


curt


Aug 28, 2003, 7:38 PM
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[quote="moabbeth"]
In reply to:
In reply to:
I think the responses to this question that cite age as a reason are somewhat off-point, except to the extent that the obnoxious "boom-box" toting boulderers--who are highly visible--are usually young. There are plenty of us old guys who have been climbing in all forms (trad, sport, walls, bouldering, etc.) for more years than most young climbers have been alive. Curt

Great point. Valid one too. But I think the bad rap that bouldering sometimes gets from non-boulderers is because of the point you mentioned above. It only takes a few loudmouths oozing 'tude to give a bad perception of the sport to non-boulderers. I dunno, is it cause of the gym climate that helps breed that then it makes it's way outside? Or was bouldering always like that over the years and just not as high profile?

No, I think you are right. I can't remember 20 years ago seeing loud groups of boulderers who would draw attention to themselves.

Curt


curt


Aug 28, 2003, 7:39 PM
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In reply to:
hi everyone,

i'm relatively new to the sport and some of this conversation has confused me, but i really want to learn.

what exactly is bouldering?

it just jumpng from boulder to boulder like in the movies? maybe that's why climbers make fun of boulderers -- because it's not really climbing?

Aren't n00bs funny?

Curt


karmaklimber


Aug 28, 2003, 8:40 PM
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When I started climbing one of the first things that impressed itself on me was how freaking nice all of the climbers I met were. Whether outdoors or in the gym, stronger or more experienced climbers always encouraged me, which contributed so much to my already thorough enjoyment of the sport.

Recently I’ve seen a growing number of people, mostly on this and other climbing sites, who have decided that they need to express – often loudly and rudely – that the type of climbing that they choose to participate in is somehow “better” than other forms of climbing. I think this is really sad, not just because the climbing community used to be so welcoming, but also because climbing is reaching a historical point where some major decisions are going to have to be made by both climbers and land managers regarding land use, recreational access, environmental protection, and other issues that ALL climbers have to deal with whether they like it or not. I’m not interested in entertaining arguments about what forms of climbing have the most of the least impact or will be more or less affected by these issues/decisions. I have my own thoughts, but they are for another forum, or a PM if you’re interested. The fact is that to one degree or another, ALL OF US WILL BE AFFECTED and all of us need to be thinking about these issues with our common interest in mind.

On a more philosophical note, we all climb because we love it, and we know that most other people don’t understand this love. Certainly whether you love trad, sport, bouldering, aid, ice, or whatever (heaven forbid that you might love more than one!), enough of this love is shared between us that we can understand why others might enjoy a different aspect of climbing than us, no?

BUMP


spacecowboy


Aug 28, 2003, 9:11 PM
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More pure my ass. Not to sound like a jerk here, i boulder too. But bouldering is in my opinion the least 'pure' of climbing. So many rules, you have to start a problem sitting down, you can't use this side wall or else your off the problem, you finish when you reach this arbitrary crimp, etc. If you want to argue it, seems to me alpine is more pure, it's you and the mountain, gear doesn't get in the way, it saves your life...if you don't want to place any, don't place any. Anything with rules can't be pure.

Although I do enjoy sitting on a large pad drinking soda and then still getting to call my self a climber at the end of the day.


jipstyle


Aug 28, 2003, 9:51 PM
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If I understand this correctly you are saying that free soloing is missing an integral part of the climbing experience and is not in the spirit of climbing as people who do it only free climb.

That is a good point ... I hadn't considered it, and you seem to have found a flaw in my argument. :)

In reply to:
Get a grip on reality. Free climbing is a major part of the spirit of climbing.

Learn to be civil. There is no need to be insulting ... I didn't flame you, did I?

In reply to:
As for bashing bouldering; enjoy your rock hopping. I need some exposure to get the adrenaline flowing but to each his/her own.

Thanks ... I will ... regardless of whether that was an attempt at sarcasm in your first sentence.

The great thing about climbing, I hope you'll agree, is that it provides so many people so much pleasure. That's it, really. It's fun.

Let's all keep it that way. :)


camhead


Aug 28, 2003, 10:12 PM
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Re: why do people bash bouldering so much?? [In reply to]
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I think it is high time that the boulderers and traddies ganged up on the real ethically challenged:

Sportos.

Boulderers are hella strong. Traddies have balls. Sportos just hangdog a lot and get pumped without facing any major consequences. They don't top out either.

Think about it: trad and bouldering have more in common with each other than with sport.


gatorclimber


Aug 28, 2003, 10:14 PM
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I havent posted in a while but I had to add something to this one. There is one thing that needs to be defined here and that is respect. That is what it is all about. My climbing is more pure than your climbing (whining), is disappointing to read on a Climbing community forum. This discussion of which form of climbing is better should not even be taking place. If a new climber were to come here and read some of these replies, I have a feeling it would change their opinion of climbers in general. I have respect for all forms of climbing. The question of weather or not bouldering is climbing, or which form is the best has never entered my mind. Personally I boulder and tope rope. People that trad are just other climbers to which I smile and say hi to. I may not share their passion but I have respect for them and what they do. I regard myself as a fellow climber, period. I am not a boulderer, I am a climber, and other climbers who trad climb are not trad climbers, they are just climbers, like me. It is sad to see the climbing community becoming divided like this. I think we need to return to the original question, why do people bash bouldering? Think of it like this: rather than people trying to isolate what exactly it is about bouldering which makes people bash it, try thinking about what exactly makes people feel the need to bash bouldering? or any other form of climbing. IMHO, it comes from the recent trendifaction(?) of climbing. I have not been climbing for very long at all (about 1 year). Living in Florida, I had no clue about anything having to do with climbing. One weekend I went to the UF climbing tower at this recreational lake we have, just for fun because I was bored. I was hooked. I started coming back after classes, by myself, and trying to see how many times I could make it around the base of the tower because it was closed and no one would belay me. I eventaully joined a climbing gym near campus and started to get in touch with the meager climbing community in Gainesville. So I am relativly isolated from "trendy climbers" by which I mean those who want no real experience with climbing other than hanging out with their friends and looking cool (the actual climbing part is incidental). The point is this: my lowly "tower traverses", my gym climbing, my few trips to Rocktown and HP40, are all fullfilling to me as a climber. Climbers are all drawn to the physical and mental diciplines required in climbing. During those first few weeks circling the tower, I was a climber. I felt the call. How I answered did not matter. Those who are following the climbing "trend" are not climbers, and should not be grouped in with those of us who truely enjoy climbing. The climbing community would be better off removing the barriers between the different "types" of climbing. We all share the same calling, and it is this which makes us climbers. And as such we should respect how each of us answer that calling, from going around the bottom of some University climbing tower, to summiting all the peaks in tibet. "To each his own" so to speak. For those who say that boulderers are loud and obnoxious, sometimes I have to agree with you. But, they are part of our climbing community, and their form of climbing is just a valid as any other. We as a community should talk to them as friends and explain to them why it is disrespectful to leave trash everywhere, or rude to blast a boom box 20 miles back into a beautiful forest, far away from any form of civilization. We should do the same for any fellow climber trad, alpine etc. We should always have respect for others' forms of climbing. The decision of which form is better is a personal decision that should be based only on which brings them the most pleasure. In the end we all have the same passion, and climbing would truely be boring if everyone did nothing but trad, or nothing but bouldering.


moabbeth


Aug 28, 2003, 10:24 PM
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In reply to:
I think it is high time that the boulderers and traddies ganged up on the real ethically challenged:

Sportos.

Boulderers are hella strong. Traddies have balls. Sportos just hangdog a lot and get pumped without facing any major consequences. They don't top out either.

Think about it: trad and bouldering have more in common with each other than with sport.

Nice!!! I hadn't thought about it that way before. Where's the tradster/boulderer love???


collegekid


Aug 28, 2003, 10:26 PM
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quit wining and go climb you wussies.

there are so many people talking out their asses on here, it's not even funny (well, actually it is).


apollodorus


Aug 28, 2003, 10:29 PM
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Climbing is inherently about going up. So, climbers who don't go up very high are seen by some as being at the bottom of the food chain. On a website like RC, there are predators, who naturally focus on boulderers.

For my money, though, sport climbing is worse than bouldering. And even worse than that are the fake walls.


metoliusmunchkin


Aug 29, 2003, 12:37 AM
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Michael (xanx),

Watch me now in awe as I disregard all other posts in this thread but your own!

Seemingly, you have a great respect for all aspects of our wonderful sport. As do I. Your esteem for the very nature of other forms of climbing, although you do not practice them, is something I can definitively relate to.

As a fellow boulderer who also respects climbing, I wish to personally presage this perfect piece of pensive information:

Let it be.

If other climbers should "bash" your love, you can do any of the following: disregard their comments, bash their love, bash their face.

The choice is yours. Let us hope your choice is to continue bouldering, and crankin' hard.


climber49er


Aug 29, 2003, 1:20 AM
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I think people bash boulders because they are trying to climb up them. Sometimes their arms and legs just get carried away. I don't think the boulders mind much... :roll:


hellclimber


Aug 29, 2003, 4:27 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Get a grip on reality. Free climbing is a major part of the spirit of climbing.

Learn to be civil. There is no need to be insulting ... I didn't flame you, did I?

No you didn't. I apologize. Working kind of hard these days and 3-4 hours of sleep every 24 hours or so isn't doing much good for my politeness. Not having climbed for almost a week doesn't help either.

In reply to:
In reply to:
As for bashing bouldering; enjoy your rock hopping. I need some exposure to get the adrenaline flowing but to each his/her own.

Thanks ... I will ... regardless of whether that was an attempt at sarcasm in your first sentence.

Guess that first sentence does come off like a derogatory remark. Probably because I don't see what's so fun about bouldering. To each his/her own as I said. Just because I don't understand it doesn't make it a better or worse thing to do. Just different from what I like. Enjoy your bouldering.

In reply to:
The great thing about climbing, I hope you'll agree, is that it provides so many people so much pleasure. That's it, really. It's fun.

Let's all keep it that way. :)

Well, we kind of agree. The great thing about climbing for me is that it provides me with so much pleasure. It's fun for me. Why other people climb doesn't matter.

Climb on.

hellclimber


wc


Aug 29, 2003, 8:05 AM
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In reply to:
is it just jumpng from boulder to boulder like in the movies? maybe that's why climbers make fun of boulderers -- because it's not really climbing?

You got it, "bouldering hopping" is what we used to call it back when I was young. Now these wankers carry pads on their backs incase they tip over. And they wear sticky shoes so they don't slip around as much. I'd like to see them hop ("send" in modern lingo) some of the jumps ("problems" these days) that I did back in the day with my old K-Mart clod hoppers.


wc


Aug 29, 2003, 8:09 AM
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WC is gettin' freaky...

Let's take it a step further...

Purity = Mental Sending

Damn... you da man!!! Ever consider teaching zen? Ah... I get it... you already are!!! You truly are a master of mental Judo. You have pushed me to the next level, much gratitude sensai...

Any advice on how to fix my "mental flapper?"


climbingjunky


Aug 29, 2003, 8:43 AM
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At first I thought, that's an interesting concept. WC, there comes a point when it's no longer considered funny or amusing. It has reached that end. This thread is getting stupid. I don't see the point of continuing this. Noones opnion will change, and frankly I don't think anybody really cares what others think. Can someone lock this yet before all hell breaks loose! Just climb dammit! :lol:


wc


Aug 29, 2003, 8:57 AM
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WC, there comes a point when it's no longer considered funny or amusing. It has reached that end.

Interesting, I just got a PM that complimented me on my contributions to this thread. I'm terribly sorry for failing to amuse you indy, but that was not my intention... my intention was to probe the very essence of climbng in general, so that we might come to terms with why we pursue such an activity. Only through understanding the true nature of our actions can we come to live in peace and harmony with each other.

I am now eternally grateful to climber49er (and all other intermediate conveyors) for helping me grasp the essence of my relationship with stone.

Numbassday


t-dog
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Aug 29, 2003, 8:59 AM
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Re: why do people bash bouldering so much?? [In reply to]
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Bouldering gets bashed for two main reasons:
One, it's not as involveda as Trad climbing, which can be very important on your mental ability to do a move when you're runout over a micro cam.
And Two, boulderers seem in a general sense to have less respect for the environment than other climbers (although I've seen some really stoopid sh!t going on at Williamson), and this causes areas to get closed down, which makes no-one happy.
But then again, as someone pointed out, they make the cliffs less crowded and that rules.
P.S. I myself am mostly a boulderer.


climbingjunky


Aug 29, 2003, 9:03 AM
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WC, You've got to be kidding me. I sensed some sarcasm in your posts. I didn't realize you were so serious about it. I can't wait to read your other posts! Why are so many people overanalysing climbing? Just climb dammit! :P


braaaaaaaadley


Aug 29, 2003, 9:06 AM
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Because bouldering is BOORING... good way to practice climbin, but those who solely boulder I do not understand.


wc


Aug 29, 2003, 9:11 AM
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In reply to:
You've got to be kidding me. I sensed some sarcasm in your posts. I didn't realize you were so serious about it. I can't wait to read your other posts! :P

Why wait? My life is an open book. As the founding member of the "Quest for Universal Awareness and Conscious Knowledge" I extend a sincere invitation to all conscious beings to probe their own existence, as well as that of every other conscious being. What you learn from others is often what you must learn about yourself in order to progress. Happy probing...


tenn_dawg


Aug 29, 2003, 9:26 AM
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I'm gonna do some PROBING TONIGHT!!

HUH? EH? Who's with me?

*Looks around for someone to give him a "high five" then drops his head, and walks away*

Travis


Partner cracklover


Aug 29, 2003, 9:57 AM
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Re: why do people bash bouldering so much?? [In reply to]
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The way this thread is progressing reminds me of something I meant to say, oh, three or four pages ago.

Any of you out there ever climbed at the Gunks? Well there's pretty good bouldering there, but there's a saying "Bouldering at the Gunks is like masturbating at a whorehouse". Mind you I have nothing against masturbating per se, but the stuff I see there is more like some kind of big circle jerk. A dozen people surreptitiosly grouped around some ritual object covered with ugly white crap, all screaming and yelling and carrying on. Man, it just turns my stomach. I mean, sure, free soloing is a way to reach down and touch a deep part of your soul. Bouldering on your own can be fun training, or just fun for its own sake, and even bouldering with a partner can be fun. But please, people, leave the circle-jerks to the 12 yo's. They don't know any better. Where's your sense of decorum? And if you really do think it's the best thing you can get, why on earth would you tell other people. Sheesh!

Here's a couple random photos I found on the web. I think they speak for themselves.

http://www.0friction.com/...riction_pic_1479.jpg
I mean, is this attractive?

Or how about this one.
http://www.bouldering.co.za/...ee%20table%20big.jpg
The original caption for this photo is:

"Problem 2001 H1 (6B), aka "The Coffee Table". Here the score is Coffee Table 1, Mark Johnston 0 ..."

Kind of pitiful, don't you think?

GO


norskagent


Aug 29, 2003, 10:09 AM
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ummm, I imagine people boulder at the gunks because that's where the boulders are, not because they want to shun the classic routes there. Groups of immature hippie-kids do give bouldering a bad rep, but there are many bolderers that don't fit that profile...how many virgin cliffs have you found? How many classic routes have you developed? I've found boulder FIELDS and established many quality problems, and I enjoy going to classic boldering areas just as much...btw, I trad and sport climbed for 15+ years before boldering exclusively so at least I have a balenced perspective.


boulderman


Aug 29, 2003, 10:20 AM
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Sh*t.... man, that dude needs to take a stiff wire brush and clean all the moss off that rock.


norskagent


Aug 29, 2003, 10:25 AM
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I could post a pic of some chossy chimney at the gunks and another of midnight lightning for comparison...


lemurboy


Aug 29, 2003, 10:28 AM
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Why Bash anyone, who cares what a trad climber thinks. Bouldering has its own set of rules. Just because some one can crank V10 and cant even do a crack climb doesnt make them a worse climber. It just doesnt suit them. If everyone quit worrying about what other people think, I think that we would all get along a lot better.


boulderman


Aug 29, 2003, 10:29 AM
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http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=16830

Now thats climbing.... This little guy can pull down and throw some mad moves! SICK!!!!

"Too Tall for Tito" V2


climbingjunky


Aug 29, 2003, 10:30 AM
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A dozen people surreptitiosly grouped around some ritual object covered with ugly white crap, all screaming and yelling and carrying on. Man, it just turns my stomach. I mean, sure, free soloing is a way to reach down and touch a deep part of your soul. Bouldering on your own can be fun training, or just fun for its own sake, and even bouldering with a partner can be fun. But please, people, leave the circle-jerks to the 12 yo's. They don't know any better. Where's your sense of decorum? And if you really do think it's the best thing you can get, why on earth would you tell other people. Sheesh!

I am hope i used the quoting function right. As far as your comment. What's wrong with having a group of people cheering each other on? It's a positive thing. If it's too loud then why don't you say something. Bouldering can be an individual sport or social event. Bouldering is not training, it's a form of climbing. What exactly do you find so jerky about that group? Who are you to say how they should act like? Maybe you're just being specific about that particular group or are you labelling all boulderers? Why are you complaining? Why are you so critical? Do your own thing and respect others unless their creating trouble for you of course.


norskagent


Aug 29, 2003, 10:36 AM
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I'm not worried about what elite-ist, snobby, stuck-up trad clmbers think.


Partner cracklover


Aug 29, 2003, 10:45 AM
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What exactly do you find so jerky about that group?
Wow. Whoosh - right over their heads.

If you don't know what a circle-jerk is, look it up. If you don't know why grown-ups don't want to see it, much less engage in it, I guess I can't help you!

GO


climbingjunky


Aug 29, 2003, 11:11 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
What exactly do you find so jerky about that group?
Wow. Whoosh - right over their heads.

If you don't know what a circle-jerk is, look it up. If you don't know why grown-ups don't want to see it, much less engage in it, I guess I can't help you!

GO

This is the definition i found on the internet: A circle jerk is a kind of competition between guys where they have to sit in a circle(sounds logical). Then they put an -All american- cookie in the middle and they start to jerk off.Finally,the last one to come(or cumm) has to eat the cookie. Hoping that you'll never lose,i'll go on with what this page is really about.


So you're saying that this particular group were doing this in front of a boulder? Interesting.


climber49er


Aug 29, 2003, 11:26 AM
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All american cookie?


joshy8200


Aug 29, 2003, 11:27 AM
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Y'all...I admit that for a short while I started to become one of those trad climbers that looked down at bouldering and even started to shun sport routes. And I had only been trad climbing for about 2 years.

What I think gets to the heart of most trad (or like mountaineer climbers) is getting to the top of something with just yourself, some gear, and a rope. Getting to the top of a big multi-pitch cliff, anchoring in, getting your second up, and then sitting there enjoying the achievment. What I got caught up in was that why climb a 10ft boulder? What achievment is there in that? I wanted big and scenic cliffs. While some of my friends were cranking down on boulder problems in the gym, I would run laps on the routes to increase endurance.

Then as my trad level started to increase, I started realizing that although never tired from climbing a route, I noticed I wasn't really getting a lot better. I wasn't moving up and climbing harder routes as quickly as my friends (who weren't doing trad but were bouldering V5 and V6 and redpointing into the 5.12). I was like man...I can climb 5.9-5.10 trad all day.

So I started thinking and talking to my trad climbing partner (who I started realizing bouldered quite a bit too). And he was like bouldering will make you a lot more confident to make those hard moves on harder trad routes. Then I remember a little thing I read in Climbing mag about Linville Gorge, saying something about weather the first ascentionist had been bouldering over the winter before he put up this hard line.

And that's when I realized that bouldering isn't something to be looked down upon at all. Do some really hard problem and sitting atop the rock proud of what you have done is similar enough to climbing a big route. I ain't saying I would do it exclusively...but then again why isolate yourself to one part of climbing (why only be a trad climber, or boulder, or sport). All of them play off of each other. We're all climbers. We're all out to have fun and do what we love to do.

As for any problems with looking down upon boulderers as young and gym rats or whatever else you want to call them. So what...they're are assholes in all aspects of life. No need getting bent out of shape over them. Why not try to educate them in a civil manner...maybe help them to become a better person, as well as a better climber. We should all do our part to make the crags a better place. Not only socially (since we're all out there to have fun) but a better place environmentally.


climbingjunky


Aug 29, 2003, 11:37 AM
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Joshy, you just summed up my opinions on this topic! WoOt! I love all types of climbing, even treeclimbing! Dynoing from branch to branch! Great fun. :)


joshy8200


Aug 29, 2003, 12:31 PM
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Ohhh man...I didn't even think about tree climbing. And on that note...climbing anything. Man I like to climb on anything! I'll climb on trees, on buildings, rock walls (like cemented together rock), statues, monuments, ropes, the doorways of my apartment, over balconies of dorms...

CLIMBING IS CLIMBING! WE SHOULD ALL GET ALONG!!! Everyone should share the crags and do their part to make it a better place in all aspects.


mowz


Aug 29, 2003, 1:08 PM
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I have an answer to all this ruckus:

WHO CARES????!!!!!

Damn it, climbers are climbers and that's it. So what if one boulders and two doesn't. If two wants to bash boulderers and/or bouldering, let him/her. If one wants to bash other types of climbing that are not bouldering, let him/her. If peeps just did what made them happy and cared less about what others think or do (aka mind your own B.W.) then things would be a lot happier. Everyone who says bouldering is better or bouldering is not as great sounds like everyone else's mom and dad. Your parents used to ( and some still do) say. " Hey, don't do that. It won't be fun" or "hey, why don't you try this. What your doing is wrong." You peeps are starting to sound like your parents and worst of all, you peeps are starting to sound like my parents.

You know what? F**k what I just said. Go on and keep arguing. Maybe this crap will get so big that we all start killing each other over who's right. Then when all the climbers who care are dead, we'll be left with only the ones that CLIMB, period.


tungsten_carbide


Aug 29, 2003, 6:46 PM
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I like any type of climbing, personally.


tenn_dawg


Aug 29, 2003, 8:56 PM
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Moved to Bouldering...

Travis


solid


Aug 29, 2003, 9:41 PM
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is there someone that hits rewind and play on this tape every few months?


rcaret


Aug 29, 2003, 10:35 PM
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They probably bash bouldering because the have forgotten how to enjoy the simpler things in life!


bebohaseltine


Aug 30, 2003, 1:00 AM
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Well, I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They are also entitled to express their opinions. Notice I didn't say bash. I have gotten heavy into bouldering. NO, there isn't a big "scene" of "loud mouthed beanie wearing kids" out here. In fact, I've never gone bouldering with more than one other person. I enjoy climbing, but I climb in groups, and I'm sorry, when there is rock surrounding me, I'm not going to sit on my butt and spectate. I'm going to CLIMB. It builds strength, and I use it as an opportunity to work on holds/moves that I'm having trouble with. That's my little opinion.


jipstyle


Aug 30, 2003, 9:19 AM
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In reply to:
I apologize. Working kind of hard these days and 3-4 hours of sleep every 24 hours or so isn't doing much good for my politeness. Not having climbed for almost a week doesn't help either.

It's all good. I understand. I've been frantically searching for a place to live and a job since I moved from one coast of Canada (Halifax, NS) to the other (Vancouver, BC) ... so I understand stress. :)


And I haven't climbed in almost a month. :shock: :cry:

In reply to:
Climb on.
hellclimber


To quote rrradam, who is rapidly becoming my favourite member of this site for his levelheadedness and love of our sport ... climb on brutha! :D


jipstyle


Aug 30, 2003, 9:34 AM
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Happy probing...

I knew it! You're an ALIEN!!!!

/me runs in fear from wc's anal probing.


climbingjunky


Aug 30, 2003, 11:54 AM
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How long is this thread gonna go? Next person to post another message after me is a dork! :lol:


Partner coldclimb


Aug 30, 2003, 12:22 PM
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It's already been well established from trusted sources that I'm a dork! :lol: This just proves it.

Gotta love blind stubbornness! Without it, threads like this would die long before their time. :D


stonefiend


Aug 30, 2003, 7:12 PM
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this thread is horrible..

give's me a new opinion of climbing though. didn't realize there was such a biased crowd. sad isn't it?

i love all aspects of climbing..

whatever the style, or difficulty.. all of you are climbing a fahking peice of stone. get over it.


bvb


Aug 30, 2003, 11:50 PM
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check out the real fuucklin mccoy at www.bvb.com

werd -- this guy is CORE

or, go to b.com for some intelligent, civilized conversation.

and stfu, n00bs.


teddy


Aug 31, 2003, 12:52 AM
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I only read the first page and i know this last page has just been boredom of this thread but still here's my 2c

My theory is that it is much the opposite of penis envy, the closer to the ground (or smaller) the climb. The more people hate it. I mean think about it, you start with Trad/Aid (noone really bashes them) people who climb these most of the time pay out sport climbers, who bash boulderers, who ALL rip on gym climbers. To each their own, i mean Trad/Aid congrats to you - more balls than i have, Sport climbing is fun although i wish i got to do more of it, Bouldering is great because you need almost no gear, and gym climbing is the most accesible and versatile in the one place. So why don't you all just stop paying each other out


wc


Sep 3, 2003, 1:12 PM
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In reply to:
check out the real fuucklin mccoy at www.bvb.com

Damn, I wish there was a bvb.com Talk about entertainment... stories from back in the day, canoeing trip reports, beached whale pics...

http://home.earthlink.net/...ibex/bob_cuticle.jpg


the_crawler


Sep 3, 2003, 2:18 PM
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One of the major points on which boulders get hasseled on is this lack metal component. In roped climbing there is sense of mentally overcoming the fear and being able to deal with it. Ropers have a misconception that bouldering has done away with this aspect of climbing. I disagree, I think bouldering does the opposite it shows the climber how the mental part is the limiting factor alot of times. Point: if you could do routes as hard as your hardest boulder problem at what level would you climb routes. Why can't you , I think its a mental issue not a physical one. Bash bouldering at you own peril, limit yourself and you hold yourself back. Understand what each aspect of climbing has to teach and become a more well rounded climber. Labeling things like this as good or bad or right and wrong is an attempt to keep yourself from having to face the truth, that you are holding on to you own weaknesses. The things you hate the most are things you understand the least.


herm


Sep 6, 2003, 11:40 PM
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I boulder all winter long. It seems that folks around here rag on "matress backs" mostly because of the increase in popularity of bouldering; their favorite spots that they think only they use are now overrun with young people having fun and maybe even climbing too hard for propriety. Going cordless is cool, but don't let it limit you. 8)


drkodos


Jan 23, 2004, 3:38 PM
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Steven Hatfill here. Congratulations to all participants for engineering the kind of thread that wins people awards!

http://www.jdo.org//images/hatfill.jpg

I know a thing or two about being hijacked, I can tell you. That's why I have signed on to be a presenter for 2004 Renaissance Awards.

I will be the presenter for:

Best Thread Hijacker: Given to the user that best takes a serious discussion and heads it into the toilet. This is a hotly contested category this year, and the winner will have a lot of great competition from some of the old dogs and some of the [violet]nOObs.[/violet]

Nominees will be announced on tuesday, January 28, 2004.


flagstaff_climber


Jan 23, 2004, 3:44 PM
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They do not own enough gear!

They never seem to have any food !

They always seem to take their shirts off! Well at least the male ones do.

and they start by sitting on the ground with their legs around a rock, that just ain’t dignified :)

But on the upside they are VERY good at falling....

Rick


dynoguy


Jan 23, 2004, 4:03 PM
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here we go again :lol:


moabbeth


Jan 23, 2004, 4:26 PM
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In reply to:
They always seem to take their shirts off! Well at least the male ones do.

And that's a negative thing why....... :roll: :roll: :wink: !!! More power to 'em!!


boulderqt


Jan 23, 2004, 5:53 PM
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A. We aren't all lazy people with pillows.
B.some of us boulder cause we don't have a partner or the gear to climb:
but people bash bouldering anyways just because they think that it is fun to do so!


curt


Jan 23, 2004, 6:05 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
They always seem to take their shirts off! Well at least the male ones do.

And that's a negative thing why....... :roll: :roll: :wink: !!! More power to 'em!!

Beth,

Obviously the negative aspect to this is the gender based inequality. :lol:

Curt


andy_reagan


Jan 24, 2004, 5:58 AM
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In reply to:
Obviously the negative aspect to this is the gender based inequality.

Ain't that the truth. :(

Come on, girls. Do one for good ole Nietzsche and support the institution of Toplessness. It starts with one woman at a time. It's simple, slip your hands under the hem of your shirt and pull over your head. Applause will follow. :roll:

Hijack what thread?


zachallen


Jan 24, 2004, 8:53 PM
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Topless Girls and Climbing.
SOUNDS GOOD!


oudinardin


Jan 24, 2004, 8:57 PM
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Werd!


scubasnyder


Jan 24, 2004, 9:07 PM
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bouldering is awsome why would people bash it


hawgdrver


Jan 24, 2004, 9:13 PM
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In reply to:
It's best to avoid blanket statements.

That's a blanket statement.


muni


Mar 5, 2004, 12:28 PM
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It's simple, people don't like what they are afraid of, or they can not do,


ldsclimber


Mar 5, 2004, 1:42 PM
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I boulder to get strong, I sport to get endurance, and I trad to get the nerve. It's all climbing in my book.


flashpumped


Mar 16, 2004, 10:27 AM
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I don't think "bashing boulderers" is the right expression. More like, look at your insecurity. Why need the justification of another's "style" of climbing get you in defense mode. Is it that competitive to claim the best style? I don't think we boulderers get the credit we deserve at times and I also think we are way to "sport driven", i.e. gotta win the comp, gotta do grade n, gotta win, gotta score...sound familiar.

Plain and simple, these "older" styles as I heard someone mention...trad, aid, etc., may not fully comprehend why we boulder...and in turn, most of us see this as a chance to retort "you can't do our sh** cause its so much harder!". That is crap. These styles can be so different in contrast in attitude, desire, and risk...and yet have "climbing" at the end.

I say just climb the way you do because that is the way you want to climb. I boulder because I like the goal to trying to do the hardest moves on rock...I attempt sport because I want endurance and yea I have to admit, firing the crux of a classic route is equally enjoyable sending a project. I don't trad or aid or ice climb because I am afraid of it...because I see it is too hard, too much risk, or I'm too much of a pussy to try.

More fuel for the fire, but damn I want to stop hearing about "purity" and "you don't like it cause you suck at it".

Peace.


climb_high


Mar 23, 2004, 8:33 AM
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bouldering is even more lame than sport climbing


mreardon


Mar 23, 2004, 9:48 AM
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Bouldering is cool. It's the gym-driven morons that leave chalkball prints all over the rock, cig butts and tape on the ground, fat pipe marks bigger than the three holds that make the problem, and make the mistake of talking smack without the ability to back it up that make the latest scourge of bouldering lame at best. And don't get me started on the inability to actually spot someone.

Oh wait, no one here ever does that :roll: everyone's f--ing perfect.
---------------
This post has been brought to you by a pissed off boulderer who just came back from a session where gymrats ruined the crag once again, but at least one of them was dickslapped senseless on the forehead.


micahmcguire


Mar 23, 2004, 10:07 AM
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bouldering is a nice workout, and it helps develop technique. That said, it can't hold a candle to real climbing. "Real" climbing includes the risk of falling from some height. "Real" climbing is overcoming the challenges and dangers of being up higher than your body can withstand a fall from. While bouldering, there is only a small fraction of the fear that a good, tall trad climb throws at you, and a small fraction of the risk. I guess that raises the question-what is "real" climbing? Is it height? Is it risk? Is is equipment? Is it remoteness?

Technically, climbing is trying to weasel your way to the top of something. The aforementioned factors just make it cooler. Climbing is like sex; there are those who don't need much, who keep it low and don't take many "risks," but are satisfied to be porking a hole-and there are those who identify their successes by more than the fact that they "did it," but by how they did it, how long, how hard, how exciting it was, etc. Anyhow, I need to go watch a porn or something, I'll be back.


mcumbrae


Mar 23, 2004, 10:41 AM
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It´s funny in a bitter way to see that what makes us human is the need to prove everybody else wrong. rrrADAM got it right, from my point of view it is all climbing. Although i consider the purpose of climbing to be GOING UP, the higher the better, i don´t pass the opportunity to work on hard moves a meter off the ground, specially when it is either that or lose a climbing day due to the absence of a partner to belay for me. I also agree with another poster who says that people who only boulder are missing a great deal of what climbing is, but i´d rather leave them to figure it out for themselves than to be a smart ass. We all pursue different goals in climbing, hence the different styles.


junnos


Mar 23, 2004, 10:44 AM
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It's all in the title. Think about it. They call themseves "Boulderers", NOT "Climbers".


kalcario


Mar 23, 2004, 10:52 AM
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*there is only a small fraction of the fear that a good, tall trad climb throws at you, and a small fraction of the risk.*

If you are afraid of crack climbing with all the high tech gear that is available today, you are either incompetent or too broke to shell out the $1000 for a rack of SLCDs.

Which do you think is stronger, a #3 camalot in granite, or a bolt in the choss which passes for rock at most sport crags in the US?


vertical_reality


Mar 23, 2004, 11:33 AM
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Because it's so easy.


boulder_boy


Mar 23, 2004, 8:22 PM
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Because it's so easy.

I wouldnt be saying that.....if you pick a pansy bouldering problem then it may be easy but don't bash on people who boulder by saying its simple. It takes technique, strength, thought, and balance to boulder.....it's just a matter of what you like to do. I like to boulder and do sport climbing because im 16 and dont have the money to shell out a 1000 bucks to buy a trad rack....be thoughtful before you call something easy


dood


Mar 23, 2004, 9:27 PM
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Bouldering is great! There is something about babes walking around with mattresses strapped to their backs...


bouldersdothebodygood


Mar 23, 2004, 9:39 PM
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you need technical expertice as in technical climbing skills ( footwork and very technical moves) but not technical ability with gear. i also lead sport climbs so i am not just a pure boulderer but that is mostly what i do i will go bouldering about 2 out of three weekend and sport climbing the other 1. i would like to get into trad the gear is just so costly anyway i dunno why they bash but it is immature i think. bouldering is as much rock climbing as any other kind. plus i have a friend who would rather be on lead 7 feet from his last protection or more than be 15 feet up on a boulder. it is all one sport why must we fight bad karma


kalcario


Mar 23, 2004, 9:49 PM
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*It takes technique, strength, thought, and balance to boulder.....it's just a matter of what you like to do. I like to boulder and do sport climbing because im 16 and dont have the money to shell out a 1000 bucks to buy a trad rack....be thoughtful*

Yeah but the problem is, the more time you spend bouldering, the harder it is to break away from it and function at the crags when your pads and spotters are not six feet away. Bouldering might improve your physical ability to climb but, and I see this all the time when boulderers actually dare to show up at the crags, it messes you up mentally.


boulder_boy


Mar 23, 2004, 10:26 PM
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actually not really I do lots of sport routes all the time. I usually do 2-3 routes a day but if im not feelin it ill go do some bouldering and have fun hangin out with my buds...maybe for some its hard to pull away, but not really a problem here


curt


Mar 23, 2004, 10:38 PM
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*there is only a small fraction of the fear that a good, tall trad climb throws at you, and a small fraction of the risk.*

If you are afraid of crack climbing with all the high tech gear that is available today, you are either incompetent or too broke to shell out the $1000 for a rack of SLCDs.

Which do you think is stronger, a #3 camalot in granite, or a bolt in the choss which passes for rock at most sport crags in the US?

Why Joe,

I do believe you have unconsciously let some of your trad roots show through. Hahahaha.

Curt


micahmcguire


Mar 24, 2004, 9:43 AM
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kalcario, I climb in the high Chugach. Nothing is bomber. If you knew anything about that, you'd have just shut up and agreed. However, there is no way you can sell me on the idea that falling on a good cam in a good crack is safer than falling from 5 feet off the ground onto a mattress. That is silly.


vertical_reality


Mar 24, 2004, 10:05 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Because it's so easy.

I wouldnt be saying that.....if you pick a pansy bouldering problem then it may be easy but don't bash on people who boulder by saying its simple. It takes technique, strength, thought, and balance to boulder.....it's just a matter of what you like to do. I like to boulder and do sport climbing because im 16 and dont have the money to shell out a 1000 bucks to buy a trad rack....be thoughtful before you call something easy

I didn't say anything about bouldering being easy.


oafy


Mar 24, 2004, 11:22 AM
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No one bashes bouldering unless they ask for it. F$%K everyone who trashes climbing, its your own thing, you shouldn't care what others think anyways. If your a true climber, you have respect for everyone who participates in it, and every aspect of it, from big wall, to aiding to climbing a 25,000ft mountain in the middle of Nepal or bouldering on a boulder that is 10 ft tall. Were all connected, so respect your own mountain before trying to name another.................


dredsovrn


Mar 24, 2004, 11:31 AM
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You are right. It is really not fair for us to bash people who aren't smart enough to defend themselves properly. While I boulder sometimes, I do it to get in touch with the commoners of the climbing community. You know, those not gifted with above average intelligence like us trad climbers. :lol:

Really why does anyone care?


kalcario


Mar 24, 2004, 11:35 AM
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*kalcario, I climb in the high Chugach. Nothing is bomber. If you knew anything about that, you'd have just shut up and agreed.*

This being RC.com, not Alpinism.com, I assumed we were discussing trad climbing as it is commonly referred to around here. Not sure what climbing in the high Chugach involves, but I doubt shorts and t-shirts are.

*However, there is no way you can sell me on the idea that falling on a good cam in a good crack is safer than falling from 5 feet off the ground onto a mattress. That is silly.*

What did I say that contradicts this?


pdwaugy


Mar 24, 2004, 12:37 PM
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We all climb. It really doesn't matter why we climb or what we climb (ie. boulder, sport, trad, aid), but the fact is we all climb. Now yes some may look down on a type of climbing, but who really cares what some random person thinks about a type of climbing. It all comes down to that we climb because we love the sport.
Waugy


jgill


Mar 24, 2004, 8:35 PM
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Normally I wouldn't enter such a ridiculous fray, but you should know that bashing others who climb not as you do has considerable historical precedents. Shortly after rock climbing became a separate sport in the late Victorian era notable climbers began leveling accusations and sharpening their sarcastic wits. Eckenstein, the first documented boulderer, enjoyed picking apart the accomplishments of others as much as he prided himself on his own deeds. Geoffrey Winthrop Young wrote disparagingly about attempting moves on boulders harder than those being done on lead at the time, and described Eckenstein perjoratively as "having the build and beard of our first ancestors". Eckenstein's close friend, Aleister Crowley (the beast 666) was scathing in his condemnation of 'the Gymnast', Owen Glynne Jones, for top-roping some of his problems before leading (essentially soloing) them. J. M. Archer-Thomson was critical of Jones as well, and avoided that practice. Almost everyone but Eckenstein despised Crowley. And that was just the beginning . . . 8)


mrme


Mar 24, 2004, 8:38 PM
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why do you care so much


curt


Mar 24, 2004, 8:52 PM
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In reply to:
Normally I wouldn't enter such a ridiculous fray, but you should know that bashing others who climb not as you do has considerable historical precedents. Shortly after rock climbing became a separate sport in the late Victorian era notable climbers began leveling accusations and sharpening their sarcastic wits. Eckenstein, the first documented boulderer, enjoyed picking apart the accomplishments of others as much as he prided himself on his own deeds. Geoffrey Winthrop Young wrote disparagingly about attempting moves on boulders harder than those being done on lead at the time, and described Eckenstein perjoratively as "having the build and beard of our first ancestors". Eckenstein's close friend, Aleister Crowley (the beast 666) was scathing in his condemnation of 'the Gymnast', Owen Glynne Jones, for top-roping some of his problems before leading (essentially soloing) them. J. M. Archer-Thomson was critical of Jones as well, and avoided that practice. Almost everyone but Eckenstein despised Crowley. And that was just the beginning . . . 8)

John,

Thanks for posting that. It is actually somewhat comforting to know that all the recent stylistic bickering is nothing new.

Curt


kalcario


Mar 24, 2004, 10:06 PM
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* Aleister Crowley (the beast 666) was scathing in his condemnation of 'the Gymnast'*

So...he tried to climb K2, was the spiritual founder of Black Sabbath (plus Jimmy Page bought his house)...and bashed boulderers? How ahead of your time can you get?


dontjinxme


Mar 24, 2004, 10:29 PM
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Me personaly, I respect "Boulderers" for their ability to achieve extremely difficult and some seemingly impossible moves. Sure I might make fun of it in these forums sometimes. But, I always follow up with how impressesive their moves can be.

However, I do not understand the fun behind it. My favorite part of climbing is rappelling. I climb to rappel. Plain and simple. I would just assume take the challenge of getting to the top via a vertical ascent as aposed to a hike.

If bouldering is what you love to do, then so be it. Bouldering in my opinion is not rock climbing and vise versa. Just like cricket is not baseball, and rugby is not football. Sure the principles are somewhat the same. Even though Baseball and football derived from cricket and rugby.

Don't sweat what other people say or think. If you think bouldering is rock climbing, then by god, go rock climb a boulder. Most people spoute their mouths off on the internet far more than they would in real life. I am a case in point. I have never said: "Stand up, and your halfway there." To a boulderer or group of them. I like my arms intact, and do find them somewhat useful from time to time.

I suppose I'll go stand on a stone, and call it...."Stoned" Yea baby, I am a stoner.

JINX


dirtineye


Mar 24, 2004, 11:55 PM
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Because boulderers deserve it. almost as much as spsort clibmers deserve it.


yanqui


Mar 25, 2004, 5:41 AM
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kalcario wrote:
Yeah but the problem is, the more time you spend bouldering, the harder it is to break away from it and function at the crags when your pads and spotters are not six feet away. Bouldering might improve your physical ability to climb but, and I see this all the time when boulderers actually dare to show up at the crags, it messes you up mentally.

Yanqui writes:
I've been bouldering an awful lot lately, and I was WONDERING why every time I go to do a hard crag lead these days I wind up peeing all over myself. And I thought it had something to do with the incontinence typically associated with old age.

On the other hand, all this bouldering has made my arms swell up bigger than Arnold Swarzenegger's used to be, back in the old Terminator days. Which makes me quite certain, that if I had to, I could squeeze open the head of a noodley armed crag climber as I would a ripe, old zit.


rocket


Mar 25, 2004, 11:56 AM
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I too respect boulderers. There are some really strong folks out there and you can learn some great body movement/moves/holds that can be transferred to the wall. Although most prefer the short, power routes that the problems offer them and hey, that's okay.

Also, for those who prefer to climb the sport/trad lines - think of it this way: The more people bouldering the fewer there we be at your favorite crag.

Hey, have fun. To me it's climbing whether its called bouldering, sport, trad, or ice.


scracus


Apr 1, 2004, 2:22 PM
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Rope climbs are just "big" boulder problems that wish they were shorter(and harder)


mattmax45


Aug 25, 2004, 1:19 PM
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In reply to:
I ask the question why should people respect bouldering?

Don't get me wrong, I like bouldering, and do it on a regular basis...however, I don't have much respect for people that climb V10, at least not in the same way I have respect for Mark Twight and Berry Blanchard (sp?).

I hold Doug Scott in higher regards then Dave Graham. I probably have more respect for Peter Zabrok then Lisa Rands.

Why? Because courage earns respect, crimp strength doesn’t.

The other thing is this purity thing…anyone who has done a multi-pitch trad route in the backcountry would never say bouldering is more pure. At least to me, there is nothing better then getting to the top of a route and enjoying the gentle wind, peace, and unpolluted sound as I belay the second up with nothing but air between me and the tree tops below.

The longer the journey, the richer the experience.


However at the same time, I've done most styles of climbing, long long ass trad routes and nasty sport, but there is a place that the warriors of martial arts call "the zone", the Samurai said " It is like Sleeping but not Dreaming. in a state of stillness." This can be felt on the hardest of bouldering for me or like JGill said "moving over rock on easy moves feeling and charishing the each move for its uniqueness". My point is that when I'm on my hardest boulder projects I enter "A place of stillness" when time stops, gravity fades and the flow of pure power, energy and chaos come together in harmony, I have never felt this anywhere else, as nowhere else has pushed me into this state of mind as of yet...Even on hard ten pitch trad routes. I know others have felt this to, and probably in climbing stlyes like trad or sport were I haven't yet. And as far as respecting boulders, what about fred nicole? To have the ability to move gracefully across V14 like he's asleep, pretty impressive wouldn't you say.
My .02 cents :)


Partner drector


Aug 25, 2004, 1:33 PM
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People bash bouldering because they are arogant. It happens in most sports where the guy who plays the sport using xyz bashes the guy who plays using x and y but no z. Golfers who use carts are bashed by the golfers who walk the course as if that has anyting to do with the quality of their strokes or their inate ability to always pick the right club.

I am amazed that there are climbers who can't enjoy bouldering. I've gotten enjoyment from every sport and recreational activity I've ever tried: biking, skiing (snow and water), rafting, spelunking, climbing (all forms, even aid (that's a joke)), ... and the list goes on. I'd like to bash those people who can't find fun just because there is no danger or because there is less equipment to master with the form of the sport they haven't chosen.

I wonder if the water skiers bash the barefoot skiers because they don't master the techniques needed to use a ski?

Not getting a kick out of something is fine. Respecting and not respecting people you don't even know based on your perception of their fears or skills is stupid. I can't repspect or disrespect anyone I have not met. I just don't know them well enough to know what type of person, not climber, they are.

Dave


weschrist


Aug 25, 2004, 1:46 PM
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[There are plenty of us old guys who have been climbing in all forms (trad, sport, walls, bouldering, etc.) for more years than most young climbers have been alive. And guess what? Many of us now prefer bouldering to other types of climbing. So, to say that it is the old guys who are set in their ways that are bashing bouldering is, I think, a mistake.

Curt

The reason for your choice of climbing style is obvious. It is much harder to carry scotch and ice while belaying...


benpullin


Aug 25, 2004, 2:14 PM
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I think most people that bash bouldering do so for two reasons.

One, it makes rock climbing a much more accessible activity to a greater amount of people. There is very little technical expertise needed to boulder. You don't have to learn about ropes, pro, placements, routefinding, etc. -- all the things about roped climbing that take time and experience to become comfortable with. Anybody can drag a pad under a boulder and cast off. And many people resent that. I believe that for some, bouldering for the sake of bouldering is seen as the dumbing-down of a craft.

Two, a lot of the people that bash bouldering/ers aren't very good at it. It's a real ego check when you go to the gym and see a novice (who boulders exclusively) cranking some problem that you can't touch. This is similar to the ongoing crack climber/face climber battle.

Personally, I see bouldering as a tool to improve my route climbing. I do not care to boulder exclusively but I don't see the point of bashing those that do.


curt


Aug 25, 2004, 2:50 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
There are plenty of us old guys who have been climbing in all forms (trad, sport, walls, bouldering, etc.) for more years than most young climbers have been alive. And guess what? Many of us now prefer bouldering to other types of climbing. So, to say that it is the old guys who are set in their ways that are bashing bouldering is, I think, a mistake.

Curt

The reason for your choice of climbing style is obvious. It is much harder to carry scotch and ice while belaying...

How true, how true..... :wink:

Curt


rcaret


Aug 25, 2004, 2:57 PM
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Bouldering , Aid , Trad , Sport , TR it's all good !!!! :righton:


scubasnyder


Aug 25, 2004, 3:09 PM
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Re: why do people bash bouldering so much?? [In reply to]
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what people say shouldnt change your climbing, if anything it should piss you off and make you work harder to get better.


slablizard


Aug 25, 2004, 3:32 PM
Post #163 of 215 (15913 views)
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Re: why do people bash bouldering so much?? [In reply to]
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I personally have nothing against boulderers or bouldering.
I don't like it so much because it's a little short, and repetitive. I prefer a longer pleasure (safe possibly, otherways I'll take it as it comes )

On the other hand I don't think that a V12 is harder than an 8c, considering all the clips, the exposure and the rest involved in a climb better than a boulder.

It's just that doing a whole route gives me more satisfaction (and endorphines ) than a 5 moves boulder, that's all.


Partner coylec


Aug 25, 2004, 4:16 PM
Post #164 of 215 (15913 views)
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Re: why do people bash bouldering so much?? [In reply to]
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In reply to:
ok first off, i'm a boulderer. there. i said it. now, i am just curious why boulderers get bashed so much.

Because its easy and fun.

Don't worry, most of us who are poking fun at boulderers are also poking fun at sport climbers (lycra, much?), trad climbers (dont' climb hard), aid climbers (shiny gear), indoor (gymrats) and pretty much everyone else.

I'd wager that 99.9% of it is in good fun (or just to get a rise out of people).

coylec


jookyhead


Aug 25, 2004, 4:23 PM
Post #165 of 215 (15913 views)
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Re: why do people bash bouldering so much?? [In reply to]
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Bouldering in my opinion is not rock climbing and vise versa.

Since when is bouldering not rock climbing? You are climbing rocks are you not? So how in the heck isn't it rockclimbing???


grigriese


Aug 26, 2004, 5:08 PM
Post #166 of 215 (15913 views)
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Re: why do people bash bouldering so much?? [In reply to]
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Like Yuji Hirayama said in the Professionals - he has no "special seperation," he loves it all. It's all climbing.


jpearl


Aug 26, 2004, 8:03 PM
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Re: why do people bash bouldering so much?? [In reply to]
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Why do people bash boulderers? That's easy to answer:

Rock Climbing Websites.

Not to diss RC.com. I think it's a great site. One thing I've learned tough is this; Rock Climbing (or Bouldering for that matter) is generally a "shut up and just do it" kinda sport. We're all out to have a good time no matter what we climb. Seriously, go to any serious climbing spot. Whenever boulderers with crashpads walk past trad and sport guys laden with gear, the encounter usually consists of nothing more than a smile and a wave.

Now enter the websites. As I said, we are a quiet breed (no matter how hard we curse our brains out on hard routes), so it should come as no surprise that when we are armed with a keyboard, an internet connection, and pent-up non climbing time, it's only natural that threads and "gee, what should I post" threads like this come up.

Trust me, I'm a quasi-climber and a quasi-boulderer. In three plus years of climbing, I've seen tons of bashing on the net, but none at the crags.


irockclimbtoo


Aug 26, 2004, 8:15 PM
Post #168 of 215 (15913 views)
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Re: why do people bash bouldering so much?? [In reply to]
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ab


veep23


Aug 26, 2004, 8:28 PM
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Re: why do people bash bouldering so much?? [In reply to]
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I sport, trad and boulder. All are fun but... getting up a hard 10 foot rock just doesn't give me that sense of accomplishment, even if I've been trying it for four months. And don't get me going on sit starts! Come on, don't we all feel a little silly doing those?