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artm
Oct 20, 2003, 7:48 PM
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In reply to: Meg's post mentioned that there were some pieces between the leader & belayer ... and if a flake containing both the belay and the pro ripped, it wasn't a F2 fall - it was freefall. Let's not jump to conclusions. The consequences were horrible enough already. It could have been freefall or it could have been an F2. One of the climbers below Lunch rock heard several distinct "pops" which he believed was the leaders pro "funking out" of the rock. Acoustics at Tahquitz are odd, your belayer can't hear a word you're screaming yet people at the parking lot can hear everything. There was a free-soloist in the area carrying a safety whistle who gave the three blasts for help.....one of the residents below Tahquitz heard the whistle and was the first to call 911. I'd like to state how proud of my Partner Meg I am. She held it together, safely belaying me as I downclimbed 1/2 a pitch back to her position (near the rap anchors) all while giving other people directions to the approximate location of the 2 victims. She performed well under very high stress conditions. Art
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roseraie
Oct 20, 2003, 7:57 PM
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You too, Art. You did awesome in the situation and held it together even though you were on the sharp end. Thank you, Art. The person who I am most amazed at in the situation is the climber who I directed to the fallen men, he had the least enviable position of everyone who responded and we are all grateful for his strength, as I'm sure the families will be too. I just want to say again that all the climbers who responded at the rock were amazing, and it definitely gave me confidence in the climbing community. I can't say it enough: I am sorry this happened, and my condolences to their friends and families. Meg
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mtnrsq
Oct 20, 2003, 8:44 PM
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For those who are interested, RMRU's website is www.rmru.org. Meg and Art - You (and the other climbers who helped) are to be commended for having the skills, willingness, and focus to do what needed to be done in a difficult situation. While it sounds as though this fall was not survivable, any one of us may find ourselves in a situation where our skills, knowledge, and strength may keep someone alive. If you haven't already, please take the time to take a Wilderness First Responder or similar course. Take a self-rescue workshop. Finally - don't be afraid to get involved. The climbing community is comprised of some of the best people that I know and that when the chips are down are right there to help someone in need.
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elcapbuzz
Oct 20, 2003, 9:18 PM
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In reply to: Meg's post mentioned that there were some pieces between the leader & belayer ... and if a flake containing both the belay and the pro ripped, it wasn't a F2 fall - it was freefall. Let's not jump to conclusions. The consequences were horrible enough already. I was NOT jumping to conclusions. I was giving my opinion based on the reports of people who were actually there. I was also pointing out the "chain reactions" that happens in other situations like this. Sure the end result was a free fall. BUT, a Factor 2 could have resulted in the free fall. I don't think we'll ever know for sure. My sympathy goes out to everyone of you, who is involved. It's good to see the comradeship in the climbing community in these kinds of situations. Ammon
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ksolem
Oct 20, 2003, 9:25 PM
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Rosaraie - You mentioned that they may have been on "The Step". This route was the scene of major rockfall several years ago. Evidence of this may still be seen in the trees at the bottom of the gulley below the route. Also, the scarring is still visible where the route passes the left end of the huge roof of "Le Toit". The Step used to be a trade route at about 5.9 but I haven't seen or talked to many people who've done it since the rockfall. It still looks pretty weird up there where it came off. It's really too bad you had to see this firsthand. I've been in this situation myself. If you begin to experience discomfort over this in the next few weeks you should find a professional experienced in post traumatic stress syndrome. I did and it gave me great relief. If you are wondering what I am talking about drop me an email and I'll tell you the story. It doesn't belong here.
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walter
Oct 20, 2003, 9:28 PM
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Ammon, you didn't exactly jump to conclusions, but you did provide a nice little mini-lecture on safety as if it were relevent. It could be taken badly by say, relatives of the unfortunate. I'm pointing out that nobody knows why these two people died. We may never know. Spouting off some basic safety rules might help you sleep, might make you think it won't happen to you 'cuz you know so much better ... think again.
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elcapbuzz
Oct 20, 2003, 9:36 PM
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Walter, This is the exact reason I don't visit these forums as mush I used to. There are a lot of beginners who read this and I was directing my statments for their benefit, mostly. I hate getting into pissing matches with "The Experts". I'm sorry if you felt like I was lecturing you...... and YES, it could happen to anyone. Me included. Over and OUT!!!
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yosemite
Oct 20, 2003, 9:50 PM
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Walter, What on earth did Ammon say to set you off? We all mourn the loss of the two who died at Tahquitz, and I think we all are asking ourselves if it could have been me, you, our partners, kids, or whoever. Death is a harsh teacher. Gene
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jesusismyhomeboy
Oct 20, 2003, 9:55 PM
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Sorry to hear about this awful accident. My condolences to the friends and family. It must have been awful to witness that.
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davidji
Oct 20, 2003, 10:04 PM
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In reply to: Ammon, you didn't exactly jump to conclusions, but you did provide a nice little mini-lecture on safety as if it were relevent. It was relevant. We may not know exactly what happened, but we can discuss the accident, and try to learn. I agree with showing respect for the dead, and their friends & family, but there was nothing disrespectful in Ammon's posts. Thanks Ammon for your regular contributions. My condolences to the friends & family of the deceased.
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walter
Oct 20, 2003, 10:07 PM
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In reply to: What on earth did Ammon say to set you off? Implying that "your sons died because they were stupid" is bad. Now, I doubt anyone really meant that - but some relative might read it that way. Implying that accidents are always preventable by following neat little rules, is bad. We're always vulnerable. Always. Reminding beginners not to set up F2 situations is good. But ... maybe some other time and place.
In reply to: Death is a harsh teacher Amen.
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elcapbuzz
Oct 20, 2003, 10:24 PM
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In reply to: Implying that "your sons died because they were stupid" is bad. Now, I doubt anyone really meant that - but some relative might read it that way. You're WAY of base on that one!!! I don't think you realize how many of my friends are gone because of rock climbing. Do you think, I think THEY were stupid... or made a dumb mistake. No way, man. This is a dangerous lifestyle that we ALL lead. We choose to put ourselves in these situations. I can't even begin to tell you what I've learned from rock climbing. It's helped me tremendously in life. I wish these stupid computers can relay the tone in my voice. I don't think you would be so offended if that was possible. I'm done defending myself. Goodbye for now..... I need some time to mourn ALL of our lost brothers and sisters. Ammon
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toejam
Oct 20, 2003, 10:28 PM
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My sympathies to everyone affected by this sad event. I read this forum specifically to learn from, and hopefully help avoid this sort of unfortunate event. I find the analysis of more experienced climbers to be helpful in this, speculative or not.
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radclimerchick
Oct 21, 2003, 1:53 AM
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I was on The Trough yesterday when the climers fell. I am trying to get as much info as possible. I was leading my boyfriend up his first multipitch climb. He heard someone swearing a lot and then heard the fall. He heard the pieces fall out and a large moaning sound when the guy landed. I found someone on the radio to call 911 after I heard someone yelling for 911 and for a helicopter. I'm sure I was not the only one to call. We spoke with someone this morning who said that they fell from the White Maiden's Walkway (5.4). That sounded odd and I assumed that they were novice climbers. Can you tell me their names and ages? I thought maybe it was 2 guys that we met on the way in who seemed to have very little gear with them and who's car was still in the parking lot at about 7pm. Thanks, Leslie
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stroker
Oct 21, 2003, 1:56 AM
Post #40 of 221
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May they rest in peace. They passed happy. -Troy Anderson
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edge
Oct 21, 2003, 2:04 AM
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First of all, my sincerest condolences to all involved. From the family members, to the witnesses, to the rescue personnel, you all have been profoundly changed and I can empathise with you. May they rest in peace. Ammon, I'm with you on this one; I completely understand where you are coming from and can relate to your point of view in so many ways. Walter, you come across as someone who wishes to make himself more important by knocking someone else down. I honestly don't know if that is the case, but it sure seems it to me. Take a step back, a deep breath, and think before you post. May the deceased find the happiness that they sought by living life to it's fullest.
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fear
Oct 21, 2003, 2:06 AM
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No one passes "happy". Never heard anyone ask not to be saved so they could die doing what they wanted to do.... The best we can do is learn from their mistakes, if there were any.... -Fear
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edge
Oct 21, 2003, 2:15 AM
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I don't know you or your situation, fear, but if and when I pass it is in the mountains, then yes, I will have done so happily. My wife and children know this and would not want it any other way, given the choice.
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moabbeth
Oct 21, 2003, 2:37 AM
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Oh god that is sad news. So sorry to hear...especially for the families of the victims. And Meg, aw girl I so wish I'd been there to get your call :cry: . I got back from Utah this morning and heard your voice on my machine and I can't imagine what kind of traumatizing experience would have been. We'll chat tonight. But kudos to you and Art for keeping it together while on the rock and doing what you could to assist in the situation. As far as how the rest of this thread degenerated, it's not cool. Ammon is right in reminding us in times like this of safety issues. He was only trying to help. There's no reason to flame someone for pointing out something wise and valid to remember. Especially when if this was a case of anchor failure, it's some advice that could prevent a fatal situation from occuring.
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dingus
Oct 21, 2003, 2:44 AM
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In reply to: Reminding beginners not to set up F2 situations is good. But ... maybe some other time and place. And your lecture is different exactly HOW? DMT
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micronut
Oct 21, 2003, 2:49 AM
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Awful, it's a serious game we play does anybody know the names, I've got lots of friends who climb there regularly, and I can't get ahold of my best partner.
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boulderqt
Oct 21, 2003, 3:00 AM
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Come on guys two people died and yes maybe we should all learn a lesson but given the info that is known and the fact that nobody is sure what went on. i think that it a bit unreasonable to be making statements about how it could have been prevented here and now. they died and out of respect i think that there is some stuff that just shouldn't be argued about in this post. my condolences to the friends and family of the climbers that lost their lives. God bless you!
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curt
Oct 21, 2003, 3:03 AM
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I found this article on the website of the Riverside Press Enterprise
In reply to: By KENNY KLEIN / The Press-Enterprise IDYLLWILD - Two climbers were killed Sunday after falling to their deaths while climbing Tahquitz Rock, authorities reported. The dead were identified Monday as Kelly Tufo, 32, of Anza and David Kellogg, 41, of San Diego, Riverside County Sheriff's officials reported. The men's bodies were discovered about 2 p.m. Sunday by hikers in the area of Tahquitz Rock, which is in Humber Park, Hemet Sheriff's Sgt. David Pike said. Idyllwild firefighters and members of the Riverside Mountain Rescue Unit were sent to the scene, but it was too late. Tufo and Kellogg were pronounced dead after falling 200 feet and impacting with the rock face, deputies said. The pair were flown out of the area by a sheriff's helicopter about 7 a.m. Monday, Pike said. The pair were not flown out Sunday because darkness and strong winds made it unsafe for a helicopter, Pike said. A preliminary investigation revealed the climbers were in a hazardous area of Tahquitz Rock when their climbing anchor failed, Pike said. An anchor, commonly known as protective gear, is a metal device that is put into a rock face, said Bruce Watts , manager at Nomad Ventures, a climbing business in Idyllwild. The devices are supposed to stop climbers from falling in the event of an emergency, Watts said. Curt
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el_pocho
Oct 21, 2003, 3:04 AM
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Meg and Art, I'm a work associate of Dave's and a fellow climber. I've only climbed with him a handfull of times and have known him for a short time, but am deeply moved by his passing. Dave was a wonderful person and is survived by his wife and son. I'd like to thank you guys for trying your best and to anyone else who were present in the rescue effort. My condolences to the family and loved ones of Both climbers. -Asa
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moabbeth
Oct 21, 2003, 3:08 AM
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Thanks for the article Curt. Condolences to their families. Anyone know what route they were on/where the rock was where the anchor failed?
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