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jt512
Apr 14, 2002, 9:04 PM
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Rappelling off a leaver biner is the usual way to descend from a sport climb you can't complete. However, it is often possible to rappel without leaving a biner behind. The method is often called the Texas Rope Trick. WARNING:[font=+1] THE FOLLOWING TECHNIQUE IS NOT FOR BEGINNERS. IT INVOLVES RIGGING A COMPLEX RAPPEL AND THEN RAPPING OFF A SINGLE BOLT, A PRACTICE THAT MANY CONSIDER UNACCEPTABLE. IF THE BOLT FAILS YOU WILL BE SERIOUSLY INJURED OR KILLED.
The Texas Rope Trick The Texas Rope Trick requires that you be no higher than one-third a rope length from the ground. In other words, if your rope is 60 m long, you must be bailing from a bolt no higher than 20 m. For this illustration, let's assume that you are exactly 20 m off the ground and that your rope is 60 m long. 1. Inspect the bolt thoroughly. Your life is going to depend on it. 2. Anchor directly into the bolt using a quickdraw and call "off belay." 3. Thread a sewn runner through the bolt hanger. 4. Gather up a bight of rope and feed it through the two loops of the runner. 5. Continue feeding rope through the runner until the bight just touches the ground. In this example, you are 20 m from the ground, so when the bight just hits the ground, the other end of the rope will just be touching the ground as well. 6. Untie from the rope. 7. Tie a figure-8-on-a-bight near the end of the rope and attach the bight to one loop of the runner, the loop that is on the same side of the runner as the bar tack (the stiched part of the runner). Use a locker or two non-lockers with gates opposed. The rope, thus, runs from the ground, though the two loops of the sling, back down to the ground, and back up again, where it is attached to one loop of the sling. 8. Rappel down the two strands of the rope that run through the sling. 9. Once you're on the ground, pull on the middle strand of the rope to pull the rope out of the sling. 10. The rope is now just attached to the sling on one side of the hanger. Pull the rope to retrieve it and the sling! A_ B | | | Rope runs thru 2 loops of sling at A | | | | | | Rope attached to 1 loop of sling at B | | | | | | Rap down left two lines | | | | | | Pull middle line to clear rope from | | | slings | | | ¯ Then pull rope to retrieve sling! [ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-04-14 14:10 ]
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jgorris
Apr 14, 2002, 9:39 PM
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Good. I've used this technique and also of course, the longer variation which lets you get down from half the rope length but does not retrieve the sling (safely). Of course, it is possible to down climb a route without leaving anything, also. Downclimbing might seem scarey, but rapping off a single point is, in my opinion, more risky and it's a head trip also.
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maculated
Apr 14, 2002, 9:58 PM
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Hmmm, my partner and I devised this method on our own one time, pretty nice to see that's an acceptable practice. ::thumbs up::
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miagi
Apr 15, 2002, 12:59 AM
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Very well described JT. I completely understood your directions. I might try at at lower level if the bolts around my area are still in good shape from the winter.
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jt512
Apr 15, 2002, 3:00 AM
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Quote: Migai: I might try at at lower level if the bolts around my area are still in good shape from the winter. Those don't sound like the kind of bolts you want to be bailing from, Miagi. -Jay
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beyond_gravity
Apr 15, 2002, 4:11 AM
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I use a quicklink. $1.50 bail
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sistersboulderingarea
Apr 15, 2002, 6:47 AM
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what about a piece of tied webbing and a rapel ring? thats only what 3 bucks??
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crux_clipper
Apr 15, 2002, 12:16 PM
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I work at a hardware shop, and a snap link for chains is about 6 bucks. Cheaper then a $15+ biner left behind. Plus not as expensive to replace. $30+ v $12
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mountainrat
Apr 15, 2002, 1:05 PM
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J.T.- sweet description, man.
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jt512
Apr 15, 2002, 5:31 PM
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Several people have suggested leaving hardware store hardware or slings behind on bolts. Leaving behind anything other than a biner is frowned upon in many sport climbing areas. The next climber up the route is going to have to remove what you leave behind. A biner is quick to remove, a screw link is not, and although you had to bail, having to clean that quicklink might ruin the next climber's on-sight. Besides, don't buy leaver biners, collect them off routes. -Jay
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treyr
Apr 16, 2002, 12:25 AM
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Yeah I also use a quicklink! Trob
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wallhammer
Apr 16, 2002, 1:17 AM
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"Besides, don't buy leaver biners, collect them off routes." leaver biners of questional origin? collect them, but dont use them for for something your life depends upon.
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jt512
Apr 16, 2002, 2:15 AM
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Ok, Wallhammer, I'll take all of yours. First of all, tests have shown that if there is no visible damage to a carabiner, then it's still strong. The invisible microcrack concern has not held up to lab testing. Secondly, even if you are concerned about invisible weakening, you're only weighting the biner with slightly more than body weight when you rappel. If there is no visible damage, the biner will certainly be good for that. That's why there is this pool of ancient leaver biners. They get transfered from climber to climber for years. Too bad they don't come with log books. Some probably have some pretty interesting histories. -Jay
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wallhammer
Apr 16, 2002, 3:41 AM
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ya, you are probably right. i get too safety conscience sometimes. all i can think about when i see one carabiner left on rap station is that it was left because it was just used with a funkness device to pull a string of pins. of course the person leaving it had to have confidence in it. anyway, i think i will keep my plundered biners for...... using with my funkness devise!!!!
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artm
Apr 16, 2002, 3:12 PM
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Over the last month my Pardner and I have collected a total of 5 Leaver biners and (tah dah) 3 entire quickdraws. Why the hell someone would bail off an entire quickdraw I don't know.
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jt512
Apr 16, 2002, 7:10 PM
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My partner and I got 9 leaver biners, including one new HMS locker, off a single route over the course of last season. Unfortunately, we never redpointed the route, but apparently, we were doing better on it than many. -Jay
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climber1
Apr 16, 2002, 7:29 PM
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when it comes to descending safely, I don't mind leaving a sling or biner. I agree, why would one leave a qdraw?
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cdb1386
Apr 16, 2002, 8:46 PM
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Are you sure those draws weren't from someone working the route?
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psullivan
Apr 16, 2002, 10:39 PM
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Regarding Jays comment "First of all, tests have shown that if there is no visible damage to a carabiner, then it's still strong. The invisible microcrack concern has not held up to lab testing." Just wanted to let you know that this is not entirely true. Check out: http://outside.away.com/outside/gear/200204/200204_rocket_science_1.adp
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pirateclimber
Apr 16, 2002, 11:12 PM
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Ahh, wall booty! It's good to see our friends in the "Gear Retrieval" industry are doing well.
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verticallaw
Apr 16, 2002, 11:24 PM
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Thats an interesting article but I still am sketchy about found biners. I am also anal about leaving biners. I have driven 3 hours and rapped a route at 1:30 in the morning to retrive my draws that my partner forgot to clean. Draws are to damed precious to leave. I go with the quick link trick. (by the way it was a set of 10 draws and not just 1 or 2)
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artm
Apr 16, 2002, 11:39 PM
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J-lo and Sumo's booty retrieval service you leave em we retrieve em... never leave a man behind that's our motto. Now if we could just get that fixed nut out of spider line our lives would be complete. Point of fact we found em on Trad routes not Sport routes, people don't usually "work" a trad route.
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jt512
Apr 16, 2002, 11:48 PM
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Quote: Regarding Jays comment "First of all, tests have shown that if there is no visible damage to a carabiner, then it's still strong. The invisible microcrack concern has not held up to lab testing." Just wanted to let you know that this is not entirely true. Check out: http://outside.away.com/outside/gear/200204/200204_rocket_science_1.adp This test showed that when carabiners are pulled to failure, they doesn't noticeably deform before breaking. I'm not sure how applicable that is to found carabiners. I've never heard of a carabiner breaking that was loaded with its gate closed along its major axis, and few climbers retire carabiners after they've held a fall, so apparently, carabiners continue to be strong after holding falls. The question used to be, though, are they still strong after having been dropped, or can they be weakened by invisible stress fractures. In the tests I was referring to, carabiners were dropped from a known height and then pulled to failure, and it was found that they still failed above their rated strength. -Jay [ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-04-16 16:50 ]
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artm
Apr 17, 2002, 12:24 AM
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo I just realized that Jay's trick means fewer leaver biners! Jay you @#$%&!!!$$%@ thanks a lot man. Actually it's pretty cool and I intend to use it. Not that I ever bail off routes mind you, but sometimes when it starts getting dark and you feel the call of nature etc. etc....
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beyond_gravity
Apr 17, 2002, 4:25 AM
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Are you willing to trust the the quickdraw wont unclip, and going into the process of technical rope work to save yourself a $1.50 that a quicklink would cost? I get mine for free of the school vollyball nets
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jt512
Apr 17, 2002, 7:52 PM
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Quote:Are you willing to trust the the quickdraw wont unclip... Yes. Quote: and going into the process of technical rope work to save yourself a $1.50 that a quicklink would cost? You should never leave a quicklink, or anything other than a biner (or a quickdraw if you're stupid enough) behind on a sport route. Leaving a quicklink is inconsdierate of the next climber, who is going to have to unscrew and clean your quicklink, possibly on lead. Don't force someone else to clean up your mess. -Jay
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wallhammer
Apr 19, 2002, 11:07 PM
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The locking sleeve on locking carabiners can break at only 500 lbf, and there have been several deaths while rappelling with a figure 8 because of this. A recent issue of the UIAA's magazine has an article on the subject (which discusses other gear failures, too, IIRC). It's on their website. -Jay feel free to use this biner as your ONLY piece to rap off.
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frawg
Apr 19, 2002, 11:34 PM
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"Too bad they don't come with log books. Some probably have some pretty interesting histories. " Nice. I'm going to do that. New Biner. I'm making a log book. I'm going to write the routes down that i've used it on, and when i leave it behind, i'll leave the log book with it. Maybe a little note saying to pass it on. Who knows, maybe one day i'll get my biner and log book back. Of course, i'm just starting my rack, and it'll be next year before i even start lead climbing.. This is a good idea tho, maybe someone else should try it. I know i will do it when i start leading. Peaze frawg
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laplaya
Apr 20, 2002, 12:00 AM
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$6 for a quicklink and $15 for a biner? what you need to do instead of developing newfangled and dangerous rope tricks is shop for cheaper gear. I can buy a whole quickdraw for less then $10 online (new). a quicklink at the hardware store I shop at is about $0.50 to $1...alot cheaper then a $15 beaner, and I dont believe that the integrity of a sport route (not leaving a quicklink) is worth risking my life on a single bolt, and messing with new tricks. thats my $0.50
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jt512
Apr 20, 2002, 12:22 AM
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Why would bailing from a quicklink be safer than from a sling? -Jay
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laplaya
Apr 20, 2002, 4:53 PM
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because its easier, for one. And unless you climb with snips, I dont think that the sling is going to be any easier to clean from a route. At least in our area, leaving quicklinks on routes is quite acceptable, as long as you lock them. after all, we have them at the top of every route with chains...who knows why. I hate chains, personally.
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jt512
Apr 21, 2002, 8:07 PM
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Laplaya, using the method I described in my first post in this thread, you don't leave anything behind, including the sling. -Jay
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inflight
Apr 21, 2002, 8:29 PM
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Circumstances always play a role but, I concur with JT512. Leave nothing behind unless you are bailing due to injury or hazardous conditions, even if you climb in another country.
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beyond_gravity
Apr 21, 2002, 8:35 PM
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I remember seeing an add a while ago for these plastic things (that look like nuts) that you clip onto the end of your rope, then when u pull the rope, it pulls the gear down with it. Anyone have any beta on this?? Jeremy
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joemor
Apr 23, 2002, 12:43 AM
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i guess u could just tie a big knot in the end of your rope and that would probably catch any gear as u pulled it. joe
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laplaya
Apr 24, 2002, 7:04 AM
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Please leave all the gear you want! I like big booty and I cannot lie...
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phreakdigital
Apr 24, 2002, 8:13 AM
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Call me crazy but if you just feed the rope through the bolt for a double rope reppel you can get down...some bolts are sorta rounded anyway. This seems sorta scketchy though.
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howitzer
Apr 24, 2002, 1:21 PM
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Don't rap from just the bolt, it's really not good safety practice - rapping is dangerous enough as is without doing it improperly. I believe that this issue (of rapping from bolts) has been addressed many times here and can be found in any technical manual - follow Jay's advice, he's experienced and knows what he's talking about.
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miagi
Apr 25, 2002, 2:13 AM
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How, Jay's advice is rapping off one bolt using the texas rope trick lol. Anyways, I think the best way to bail is just to use a sling or webbing. Just V-hitch the bolt, thread the rope, and rap down. The next climber only has to pull one end and keep it if he wants. Besides, if you use webbing, it's only around 30 cents a foot. We buy candy bars that cost more than the webbing you leave
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sexton
Apr 25, 2002, 3:37 AM
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Miagi, Please don't leave webbing threaded through a bolt hanger. It totally screws the next guy climbing after you. The same goes for a quick link. Someone else on this thread has argued that they can just be removed easily. The fact is, after a season, it usually takes wrench to losen the rusted bastards. Just think how you'd feel coming up to that crux move at your limit, and having to remove someone else's trash off the bolt. Leave a biner. Easy to remove, and can be clipped into safely if not removed. It doesn't cost anything. You find as many as you leave, at least if you're climbing in popular areas.
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liudolf
Apr 25, 2002, 4:39 AM
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This is why I love my crag. No problems like this at all! My benevolent local climbing dealer (the only guy who stocks anything at all on Oahu) uses ALL his profits to better the crag! So we've got carpet squares to chill out and rest on, medical gear, a topo of the crag, all built into a big chest right there at the wall. PLUS, and this is the best part, he has fixed almost every climb to where you can toprope it. Two bolts at the top, with chains and a rap ring, through the rap ring is thin accessory cord running all the way to the ground, where the excess is wrapped around a scrap of bamboo and stuck in a low tree branch. Once you get there, you can tie a few half-hitches around your own rope, haul it up the wall, flagpole style, and watch as it slips through the ring and comes back down to you. When you and your buddies are done, just tie the cord to your rope and bring it back down, with no gear lost. Instant toprope, with no hiking access to the top! So once I start leading, all I have to do is get to the top, clip into a bolt (off belay) and send my rope to the ground through the rap ring, then earthward I go! The only problem is, it's the only crag on the island. Them's the breaks. Liudolf [ This Message was edited by: liudolf on 2002-04-24 21:41 ]
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phreakdigital
Apr 25, 2002, 5:22 AM
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I think the post was for those routes that cant be TRd and you cant get to the top, but the carpet squares are a good idea.
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jt512
Apr 25, 2002, 10:51 PM
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Phreakdigital, never run your rope through the bolt hanger to rappel. The inside edge of the hanger is too thin and will damage, or even cut, your rope. There is one exception -- the Metolius Rap Hanger -- which is made specifically for this purpose. You must be able to identify, though. Here is a picture of one. Note how the bottom of the inside edge is rounded. According to Metolius, a minimum of two Metolius Rap Hangars must be threaded. If you are ever unsure whether a hanger is a Metolius Rap Hanger or not, play it safe, and don't run your rap rope through it. -Jay [ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-04-25 15:55 ]
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laplaya
May 2, 2002, 5:51 PM
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I had a quick and easy question, and it seems so obvious, but maybe its just me. Is no one concerned in the least bit that a hanger could cut through a sling/webbing as easy or easyer then it could through your actual rope? I mean sure, if it did, you wouldnt lose as much gear (a sling is easyer to replace then a rope, but not if you are dead!) People do this with webbing directly through hangers here to set top-ropes and I cringe and clean when ever I see it.
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jt512
May 2, 2002, 7:02 PM
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Quote:Is no one concerned in the least bit that a hanger could cut through a sling/webbing... Rappelling off of slings threaded through bolt hangers has always been a standard practice in trad climbing. The slings must be in good condition, however. Old slings can and do break. -Jay
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tygereye
May 2, 2002, 8:51 PM
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Don't forget the option to just downclimb the route and clean it in doing so.
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