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prairie_climber
Apr 30, 2002, 7:00 PM
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just woundering what every one likes using,
- i like using 8's.
one more question
- Just woundering which is better a ATC or a figure 8
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hangerlessbolt
Apr 30, 2002, 7:12 PM
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8's tend to kink the (expletive) out of my rope...I prefer my ATC.
-Hanger
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radistrad
Apr 30, 2002, 7:27 PM
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ATC
Very reliable, provides excellent friction and allows for semi speedy rappels.
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killclimbz
Apr 30, 2002, 7:34 PM
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I use a tuber, and I prefer that style of device. ATC, Sheriff, etc...
8's force a twist in your rope and kink it up. More of a pain in the azz than anything.
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stewbabby
Apr 30, 2002, 7:36 PM
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any plate device such as atc. i hate 8's they kink the rope too much!
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iclimbtoo
Apr 30, 2002, 7:36 PM
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I prefer 8's because I like to go fast. ATC's are slow...however, most of my rappels are on a single line too which helps cut back on the kinking in the rope and also keeps me from using my ATC.
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climber1
Apr 30, 2002, 7:47 PM
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I like eights. easier to set up. also they dissipate heat better than an ATC.
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timmyclimber
Apr 30, 2002, 8:19 PM
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I like ATC's. Supposadley, trangos version (i forgot the name) has ridges that are supposed to dissipate heat better then black diamonds. Who knows
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dustinap
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Apr 30, 2002, 8:22 PM
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Trango Pyramid, and yes you can go fast with this thing, although I really don't see the point in why you need to go super fast well rappeling. I have a HB sheriff, which is nice because of the rigid keeper, but I'm not real big on the device itself. The Reverso looks like it'd be a nice device for rappelling, but it's so thin it might get really, really hot. I know you can lower people ultra fast with the Metolius one, and it has a nearly rigid keeper, but it's so slow to feed out slack with. It may be a good rap device though.
[ This Message was edited by: dustinap on 2002-04-30 13:23 ]
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mitchal
Apr 30, 2002, 8:48 PM
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ATC all the way.I use an 8 sometimes just so I don't forget how,in case I would lose my ATC and have nothing else.
Anybody know that ATC stands for "air traffic controller?"
Climb Happy
Mitch
[ This Message was edited by: mitchal on 2002-04-30 13:50 ]
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jumaringjeff
Apr 30, 2002, 9:42 PM
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Ok here's a related question:
How many of you rappel without gloves??
-jj
P.S. I use either my reverso or my ATC when I rappel...
[ This Message was edited by: jumaringjeff on 2002-04-30 14:43 ]
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dustinap
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Apr 30, 2002, 10:10 PM
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I rappel without gloves, if I had gloves I'd wear them though. Alot of stuff is higher on the list of needed goods then gloves. How do leather gardening gloves work, or do they disingrate to fast?
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melonhead
Apr 30, 2002, 10:10 PM
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Neither.
A parachute!!!!!!!!!!
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kaptk
May 1, 2002, 7:43 AM
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Back before I started climbing I had been rappeling several times. For just rappeling I would use a figure 8 because you can go faster. For rappeling after a climb I would use an ATC or similar device. I don't want to have to carry an extra piece of gear just to rappel. I won't be worried about trying to go fast. Also, it twists the rope badly.
PS- If I am rappeling fast with an 8, I will wear gloves. I won't wear gloves for a controlled descent on an ATC, until I start going on really high multi-pitch routes.
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crux_clipper
May 1, 2002, 9:00 AM
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Why take a belay device AND a fig. 8. It's just more weight. I've found my HB ample for controlled abseils, although it does tend to get a little hot. I've never worn gloves, and i don't think i will. I'm not making rapid descents, so i find that gloves are not neccessary.
However, i work in a hardware shop, and can get riggers gloves (leather) for real cheap.
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roadtrip
May 1, 2002, 6:18 PM
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The following UIAA journal has some examples of why 8's went out of style. http://www.uiaa.ch/journal/20003.pdf
Several people were killed using 8's w/o a belay loop, b/c the biner gate can get torqued. Almost anything, however; works in the hands of a competent climber(ie. body rappel-no attachment). In fact, the military apparently uses two twists of the rope over a steel locker(not even a munter hitch.)
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natec
May 1, 2002, 6:41 PM
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Petzl reverso!
Smooth as silk on the rappel.
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litedawg
May 1, 2002, 6:45 PM
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ATCATClets hear it for the ATC.
I love my ATC. I learned on 8's but was shone the light when a more experienced climber demonstrated the superior properties of the ATC.
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bradhill
May 1, 2002, 7:17 PM
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I like my Reverso, but think it sucks for rappelling. Too much friction. I much prefer the ATC even though I'm a real turtle on rappels. (don't like to burn my rope) I agree about 8's being potentially dangerous, plus they're heavy.
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toobigtoclimb
May 1, 2002, 7:21 PM
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ATC
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nailzz
May 2, 2002, 2:46 AM
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Drat! Melonhead took my idea already ... sort of. I was gonna say
'gravity'
but 'a parachute' is better.
I use my ATC 100% of the time. It's simple, light, and works as well or better than anything I know of. The only other device I own is an '8' that I got free somewhere.
Gloves? No. The only time I rappel is after cleaning a climb so I don't do it for fun as much as a way to get back to earth. I would've loved gloves the time I speed rappelled off the rock when that thunderstorm moved in on us suddenly, though. Something about being high up on a cliff during lightning with metal pasted all over your body doesn't toot my horn.
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drysdan
May 2, 2002, 2:58 AM
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I dig my Metolius BRD (Belay/Rappel Device). It's so smooth, and really fast, if ya want it to be. The rappel, that is. And I've never had it get hot, even on long, fast rappels. And yeah, i like gloves. I have these rad gloves with leather on the front, and some neoprene stuff on the back. they fit pretty snug, so I can still articulate my fingers.
-T
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liudolf
May 2, 2002, 2:58 AM
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Last September I lost ALL my gear (in one bag) off the back of my motorcycle on my way home from climbing. Needless to say, it was gone by the time I turned around to get it, but when I replaced it all I was short on cash, obviously.
I replaced the ATC, decided to skip the 8 for later. I still don't have an 8! (chucked the cash for a Gri gri instead)
IMHO, anyway.
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kelownaclimber
May 2, 2002, 2:19 PM
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Atc all the way,8's are not gonna get used on my lead rope
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laplaya
May 2, 2002, 3:50 PM
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ok...2 pages of replys and no one has mentioned the best devise for rappeling yet.
Have any of you heard of a rappelin rack? they are sort of big, have alot of bars to dissapate heat, and they are used alot by vertical cavers. U can go fast or slow, at your desretion, as it is quite ajustible. ATCs are alright, but I wouldnt intentionally use them for say over 30 ft. of decent. Too little disapation surface, so they heat up quick! If I dont happen to have a rack on me, I always go for the 8! Anyone looking for gloves, a military surplus supply is the best place to get them! all leather rappeling gloves with double leather in the palm...good stuff. I get chicken and have to go real slow if I get caught without a glove, and I only wear one. My bro is right handed and I am left, so we split a pair
I also like to use the glove to belay.
Peace,
LaPlaya
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jumaringjeff
May 2, 2002, 4:53 PM
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Ahh yes the rack. I've read about them, seen them, but never used one. I hear they are THE ultimate rappelling device.
Here's another topic: Several people I know don't like to rappel on a dynamic rope, claiming the rope stretch (as opposed to the minimal stretch of a static rope) can be dangerous. What's your opinion?
-jj
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laplaya
May 2, 2002, 5:12 PM
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When I know the anchors ar bomber, dynamic doesnt really bother me, but if there is any doubt in my mind about the anchors, I would definatly prefer a static rope, although its not as big of a deal on rappels as it is on jumars, in my opinion.
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coach
May 3, 2002, 6:43 PM
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I personally prefer to use my Tevas for the descent!
Climb On
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fat_tony
May 3, 2002, 7:44 PM
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How is the stretch on a dynamic rope dangerous? Isn't that the whole purpose of the dynamic properties, to stretch...even when stopping on rappel?
I bet they don't mind the stretch so much when they fall 20 ft. when climbing a route!
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beyond_gravity
May 3, 2002, 8:33 PM
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What? I rap with a hip belay
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redox
May 4, 2002, 9:04 AM
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Petzl Reverso is definitely the better way to belay/reppel/back-up ascenders... It does everything you need and is only $20!!
--red0x
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apollodorus
May 4, 2002, 10:15 AM
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ATC. Fig-8 twists the rope too much. If you have a fig-8, then do the double-biner brake instead. Reverse the gates on the two harness biners, then clip rope one so the off-gate side is running.
Figure-8 was way cool, back when it was old school. But now? That twin-throat ATC is happenin', bro. Go large. And keep it real.\
Bro. And Damsels. Love-YA-LOTS. Kiss up, baby, whoa, gotta gettsum.
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laplaya
May 5, 2002, 4:49 AM
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"whoa, gotta getsum"
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iclimbtoo
May 5, 2002, 5:14 AM
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okay, clearing up a question. Why rappel fast? Because it's fun and it's a rush.
Do I do it outdoors? Only if I can reach the ground easily with one rappel.
Gloves? Hell yeah. Allows me to go faster. But, if I had the means for it, I would do like nailzz and melonhead and just base jump!
I don't care what people say...if you're doing an aussie rappel or just going fast and you like a rush, figure 8 is the way to go.
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crackhabit
May 7, 2002, 5:30 PM
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ok, i am a gearhear, tried and true. since i collect repel/belay devices i have three of them. i have and ATC, it was my first, but i dont use it anymore. for repel, i use the trango tower b/c it is the smoothest thing that i have used for the purpose. i dont use it for belay. it does not have the stopping power that my other has.
for belay i us the old stitch (or stic, dont know) plate. i think that thing could stop a bus from falling but is sucks for repel, too grabby.
as for the rack. i have see one but dont own it. i though that it was for spelunkers and i think that it is a controlled descent such that you dont need to hold anything but i dont know.
i will not use nor let anyone use an 8 on my rope.
[ This Message was edited by: crackhabit on 2002-05-07 10:31 ]
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drysdan
May 7, 2002, 6:02 PM
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so has anyone heard of a device called a robot, from Kong? it looks really really cool as a descender, and I think you can belay on it. Anyone know? Have one?
-T
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jumaringjeff
May 7, 2002, 6:16 PM
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I dropped my reverso 70 feet last weekend while setting up TR anchors....'DOH!!!!
-jj
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climbchick
May 7, 2002, 6:28 PM
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I used a borrowed Trango Jaws this past weekend and liked it a lot. I'm all about going as slowly as possible and having maximum friction cuz rappeling scares me. I usually use an ATC but I'm going to switch.
I always wear gloves. When I got to the top of a climb I did this weekend, there was a guy up there who had to be lowered by his party. He had rapped off the 2nd pitch with no gloves, lost control of the rope near the bottom, and had a pretty bad rope burn on his right hand. I had forgotten my gloves but, after seeing that, I had my partner tie them to the end of the injured guy's rope when he pulled it up to tie in (I let his party go down ahead of me).
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ravens_wing_jim
May 7, 2002, 6:33 PM
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Well...I guess I'm old school.
I like my BD super 8 on rappel.
A potential problem to look out for
while rappeling on an 8, is that the
rope can form a girth hitch mid-rappel
and stop you cold.
But I still love my old school 8
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onbelay_osu
May 7, 2002, 6:46 PM
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I honestly perfer 8's when on a desent, i have used everything from a reverso to a stitch plate and 8s glide a lot eaiser for me!!
GRANT
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iclimbtoo
May 7, 2002, 7:26 PM
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I have to say it again, go 8's!!!! ATC's for belaying, but I've used pretty much everything you can name to rap off, and I've never had a problem with my rope being kinked or whatnot. Sorry, I'm just an avid 8 user and advocate!
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laplaya
May 8, 2002, 2:23 AM
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fyi
the rack is a device that alows more control of the decent, but you do need a hand on the rope.
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gravitymaster
May 8, 2002, 2:43 AM
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I like my ATC, always without glove, exept for ice climbing !!! . I'm thinking to buy a reverso, but I'll wait to try one before.
Enjoy !
Gravitymaster
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coldclimb
May 8, 2002, 2:57 AM
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My favorite would be two oval 'biners across a locking biner, because that's the first one I ever learned or used. Not the most effecient or fastest, but I like it. I also rappel without gloves.
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robscate
May 8, 2002, 5:43 AM
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big 'ol beefy rescue '8'
Actually, I prefer an ATC, good smooth descent without to much rope drag.
( I have tried many, many descending devices and found the atc to be the best one)
Rob c
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neenielions
May 8, 2002, 6:10 AM
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i love my trango jaws for belays and rapps from anchor stations. but if im just rapping or doing aussies, i set my static like and then the rescue 8 is the only way to go.
neenielions
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passthepitonspete
May 10, 2002, 12:33 AM
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Double ropes, single ropes, doesn't matter - I use my Gri-gri.
Works swell.
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onbelay_osu
Dec 1, 2003, 5:43 PM
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In reply to: I honestly perfer 8's when on a desent, i have used everything from a reverso to a stitch plate and 8s glide a lot eaiser for me!! GRANT
man i was such a tool not only 2 years ago....man....
btw if you are wondering i have switched my preference i now love to decend on a gri gri :roll:
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jimdavis
Dec 2, 2003, 12:53 AM
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In reply to: I like eights. easier to set up. also they dissipate heat better than an ATC.
If putting a bight though a slot is hard to setup, I'd question your standards here.
Also 8's don't do well at all with heat, they tend to heat up more and hold their heat longer than an ATC. The only reason i can see to ever use on is on big frozen ropes that won't go into an tube belay.
I just use my Reverso for just about everything, but I think the Pyramid is probably the best device out there for rappelling.
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jimdavis
Dec 2, 2003, 12:55 AM
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In reply to: okay, clearing up a question. Why rappel fast? Because it's fun and it's a rush. Do I do it outdoors? Only if I can reach the ground easily with one rappel. Gloves? Hell yeah. Allows me to go faster. But, if I had the means for it, I would do like nailzz and melonhead and just base jump! I don't care what people say...if you're doing an aussie rappel or just going fast and you like a rush, figure 8 is the way to go.
Can you send us pics of your rope when it gets glazzed over from going to fast and melts the sheath?
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hops_scout
Dec 2, 2003, 3:30 AM
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Somebody asked about using work gloves (leather ones)...
That's what I've used while climbing with Boy Scouts on a tower in which they gave those to us. And we used figure 8's for rappelling, BTW.
I've also used leather work gloves while descending with a cable and they work great!
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jimdavis
Dec 2, 2003, 5:40 AM
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Gloves are great for long raps.
I use em when I belay a whole rescue TEAM on a Brake-Bar Rack. I can hold more and wrap the rope around my hand a lot easier than if they were bare.
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cjstudent
Dec 2, 2003, 12:45 PM
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In reply to: Why take a belay device AND a fig. 8. It's just more weight. I've found my HB ample for controlled abseils, although it does tend to get a little hot. I've never worn gloves, and i don't think i will. I'm not making rapid descents, so i find that gloves are not neccessary. However, i work in a hardware shop, and can get riggers gloves (leather) for real cheap.
I take a belay device (Trango Jaws) and Figure 8 when I climb, and it came in handy Sunday night when I dropped my belay device because my hands were so cold and I was fumbling around with stuff. I was able to use the 8 as a belay device in a pinch that worked pretty good (I didn't use it in rap mode if that is what you are wondering, I pushed the rope through the small hole and clipped it to a biner)
Thats why I carry an 8 and belay device. I prefer raping off my 8 but sometimes I use the Trango Jaws
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kathy
Dec 2, 2003, 1:30 PM
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I use the 8 - use gloves - if there are no gloves available (eg forgot them at home - which I do often :oops: ) I attach a prussik as a back up.
how does one use the gri gri as a descender ? ( a genuine question) coz i always though you could, but never found any literature about it - not even in the gri gri instruction leaflet...
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naitch
Dec 2, 2003, 3:08 PM
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I don't think anyone's mentioned it yet, but I like my B-52 for descending. On my PMI 10.5 rope it is silky smooth and very controllable. I tried many of the - ATC, 8, Reverso, Omega SBGII, and Trango Pyramid but the B-52 is my choice. I like the 8 but there's no way I'm carrying another piece of gear and the rope twist is the pits.
I also have a Grigri and it suxs for descending. Too sensitive and grabby, though it's nice to have the autolock feature. It's also no good if you're descending on a doubled rope which is what we do most of the time.
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cryder
Dec 2, 2003, 4:37 PM
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Favorite descending device? Gravity. Never fails. It's getting to stop working that is the tricky part.
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capn_morgan
Dec 2, 2003, 5:15 PM
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I carry a reverso to belay with so thats what I rap on. Works just fine. If I need more friction I can flip it or use 2 biners.
Wear gloves for belaying, lead always, 2nd sometimes, and useally on rappel. When it drops below about 40 I climb in em too if the going is easy :)
I was also wondering about rapping with a grigri, do you tie into one end and then have the rope running through the anchor?
have an atc which works great but dont carry it as a backup because I just dont drop things....and if I need a backup device I usally have lots of free biners that will work just fine for a biner brake.
Oh..and rapping really fast doesnt seem like the best idea...aside from creating alot of heat which can do nasty things to your rope, its puts alot of unessecary stress on your anchor/rope/harness/body when you bounce to a stop.
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melekzek
Dec 2, 2003, 6:06 PM
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Registered: Nov 16, 2002
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In reply to: Favorite descending device? Gravity. Never fails. It's getting to stop working that is the tricky part.
In reply to: the secret to flying is to fall down and miss the ground. |
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rock_buddy
Dec 2, 2003, 6:14 PM
Post #59 of 68
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Registered: Nov 26, 2003
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I like using the ATC but 8s are cool too.
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nbrown
Dec 2, 2003, 6:14 PM
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I like the petzl reverso it goes pretty fast.
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rock_buddy
Dec 2, 2003, 6:16 PM
Post #61 of 68
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Registered: Nov 26, 2003
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airial traffic device please
I repel with no gloves
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djnibs
Dec 2, 2003, 6:24 PM
Post #62 of 68
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Registered: Aug 11, 2002
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I prefer to use a rescue 8. Although, while climbing, atc is the next best thing.
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ride
Dec 2, 2003, 7:15 PM
Post #63 of 68
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I almost always use the carabiner brake.
1) dont have to buy anything else
2) doesn't twist the rope
3) if you drop your fancy schmancy ATC or whatever what are you going to do now?
4) see #1 again
:)
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david.yount
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Dec 11, 2003, 4:25 PM
Post #64 of 68
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Omega Pacific SBG II - this tool handles so many variations - like simul-rapping on 7.6mm twins (which means we each get a single 7.6mm to rap down.......) Or rapping on 9.4mm with my pack and her pack hanging from my belay loop, so I rig the SBG II through the side with JAWS, or for even more moxy I can rig it on the higher hole.
NO other tuber device could do that, not the Trango Jaws (used to be my #1 until the SBG II), maybe the Hugh Banner Marshall but it would be a chore stuffing my 9.4mm single line through those small slots (used to be my "doubles" and "twins" belay/rap device until the SBG II) ((most people might never had the opportunity to see the HB Marshall, it's just like the Sheriff but the slots are smaller, for twins and doubles))
(((oh, I've 1 HB Marshall for sale, very good condition, red; and 1 Trango Jaws, good condition, green)))
And, you can rig it like an 8!
If I have 'em, yeah, gloves feel nice. Makes it so very tempting to enjoy the S - P - E - E - D . . . . . . .
Carabiner Brake is sweet to place on the 6mm line when rigging a full length alpine rap with 9.4mm and 6mm tied together, on a tuber device. By adding sufficient additional friction to the 6mm line, the joining knot doesn't smash into the rap anchor - the lines don't translate.
I like to single-line rap with my Piggy Back GriGri (see post in Alpine).
I've logged about 1000-feet on near-vertical terrain (in 50-foot hops tree to tree) using a Dulfersitz. You want to put the adventure back in rappeling, forget the Figure-8-backside-of-harness-head-first-mambo, that's fun, but Hans Dulfer developed state of the art in adventure rappeling.
Though heavy and not as multi-functional as other belay/rap devices, Figure-8's sure are SEXY! -- David.
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sharpie
Dec 11, 2003, 5:01 PM
Post #65 of 68
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Registered: Nov 8, 2002
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Sirius TRE...It Rocks!
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nickolatte
Dec 15, 2003, 6:22 AM
Post #66 of 68
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Registered: Dec 15, 2003
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I like the new reverso from Petzl the rope goes through quickly and does not heat up
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diodesanddihedrals
Dec 15, 2003, 6:36 AM
Post #67 of 68
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Registered: Nov 3, 2002
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ATC all the way. If I rappel for fun I use an 8 or a biner wrap (old school)
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david.yount
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Dec 15, 2003, 8:54 PM
Post #68 of 68
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Rappeling is a controlled descent of a rope. A carabiner wrap is a dubious form of controlling a rope as a safe manner.
The carabiner heats up faster than my old MSR XGK on high.
The carabiner twists against the attachment carabiner putting torsional forces between 2 carabiners, though that may not be large, still represent forces that no aluminum carabiner should be thusly stressed.
If the wrap biner is connected to the climber by a sling, the wrap biner will by namesake wrap itself around the brake rope so the brake rope slides on the sling (nylon sliding on nylon is not something that should be allowed).
By using 2 large (rescue-sized) steel locking biners the military-prefered carabiner wrap rappel can be rigged more safely. But there's still the issue of extraordinary heat in the wrap biner.
Cavers developed several designs of descending devices based on the historic biner wrap. Replacing the solid spine of a carabiner is a hollow tube over 1-inch in diameter which dissipates heat well.
If I only had 1 biner and had to descend a rope I'd rig a Munter knot. With 3 biners you could build a carabiner brake (with limited friction however).
--David.
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