Forums: Climbing Information: Injury Treatment and Prevention:
Auto-Belay Gym Accident
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Injury Treatment and Prevention

Premier Sponsor:

 


irockclimbtoo


Sep 19, 2004, 11:51 AM
Post #1 of 72 (43484 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 2, 2004
Posts: 309

Auto-Belay Gym Accident
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ab


timstich


Sep 19, 2004, 11:56 AM
Post #2 of 72 (43477 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 2, 2003
Posts: 6263

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
Earthtreks about 2 weeks ago:

A climber began climbing an auto belay route forgetting to hook in and got to the top forget he wasnt hooked in and let go. Fell broke his back both legs and an arm.

I believe thats the whole story no one really knows how the person forgot to hook in...

Well, people simply just forget things. We forget wallets and purses, why not children at the store and tying into the rope? Of course the latter two have worse consequences.


themacko


Sep 19, 2004, 11:57 AM
Post #3 of 72 (43477 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 11, 2004
Posts: 55

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Bet he won't do that again...


Partner oldsalt


Sep 19, 2004, 12:00 PM
Post #4 of 72 (43475 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 19, 2004
Posts: 919

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

I was recently in a gym session with a crowd of birthday kids and no knowledable adults. I was climbing each of the autobelays in turn for a workout. After waiting about 10 minutes for one 8 year old to wear out while hogging the route, I jumped on the route fuming.

Once I reached about 20-25 feet up, well above the overhang, I realized that I was free soloing. I downclimbed without difficulty, but shaken, more worried about being seen unbelayed than about falling.

It happens.


korntera


Sep 19, 2004, 12:21 PM
Post #5 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 13, 2004
Posts: 422

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Do rock gyms have auto belays or just outdoor towers? I have never been to a gym or heard of a large gym with auto belay. I think that because of reasons like this they are very unsafe. I like having somebody "on-belay" because then you have somebody checking to make sure you are tied in, and you have two people checking everything. I have never forgot to tie in and if i ever did my partner would catch it, can't do that on auto-belay.


timstich


Sep 19, 2004, 12:23 PM
Post #6 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 2, 2003
Posts: 6263

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Perhaps these auto-belay machines should have "WARNING! WARNING, WILL ROBINSON! YOU ARE NOT CLIPPED IN!" alarms?


danpayne


Sep 19, 2004, 12:35 PM
Post #7 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 16, 2004
Posts: 278

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

AZ on the Rocks here in Phoenix has a couple of them. How in the hell do you forget? I never forget my seatbelt. I never forget to flush the toliet. I don't forget to attach my lifeline to myself well climbing. Wouldn't it just feel wrong?


iclimblilrocks


Sep 19, 2004, 12:45 PM
Post #8 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 6, 2004
Posts: 208

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Im scared of auto belays, and auto locking belay devices... Sometimes they dont work..

Like once I was giving my sister a belay at a gym, with their grigri that was at the end of the rope, and She took a fall and the stupid think didnt lock up like it should have... thankfully i dont relay on them to stop the fall, I locked it off like i do with my atc, and then told the guys working there that it was busted... So that some stupid people dont come along completely relaying on it to stop the fall (because it was on a super tough roof) and the climber takes a nice fall right onto a bunch of little rocks...


nirvana


Sep 19, 2004, 12:48 PM
Post #9 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 3, 2004
Posts: 138

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Well, at the risk of sounding stupid, I'll 'fess up: I forgot to clip in on autobelay and managed to get about 30 feet up before I realized my mistake. Coincidentally, I happened to be at azontherocks. I was pretty shaken, mostly 'cause I couldn't figure out how I could possibly forget to clip in. But the fact is, I'd had a long day at work, I was preoccupied, and I spaced out. The space out factor can happen any time and any place.

Believe me, I check and recheck before I climb on autobelay now!


curt


Sep 19, 2004, 12:57 PM
Post #10 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18234

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The fact is that our sport can be very unforgiving of carelessness or stupidity. So, please be careful and make sure you know what you are doing--before you do it. :wink:

Curt


melekzek


Sep 19, 2004, 1:08 PM
Post #11 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 16, 2002
Posts: 1456

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
I never forget to flush the toliet.

you will eventually forget. in your girlfriends house. while her parents are visiting. murph's rules, you know.


Partner camhead


Sep 19, 2004, 1:16 PM
Post #12 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 9, 2001
Posts: 20797

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

maybe I'm just slow or something, but how does someone forget to clip into an autobelay? All that I have seen have a large locking biner to clip in with, so it's not like, say, with a knot, where you could pull a "Lynn Hill" and not rethread or something.

really, I'm curious what was going through the two posters' minds as they climbed. You forgot to clip the locking biner? so, you just basically climbed up without clipping anything to yourself?


chitown_coop


Sep 19, 2004, 2:25 PM
Post #13 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 7, 2004
Posts: 59

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
maybe I'm just slow or something, but how does someone forget to clip into an autobelay? [ . . ]really, I'm curious what was going through the two posters' minds as they climbed. You forgot to clip the locking biner? so, you just basically climbed up without clipping anything to yourself?

No, seriously: did you not notice the rope that was rigidly clipped in that kept getting in your way as you climbed??? That's the funny thing about auto-belay routes--they sort of have to go straight up, otherwise the rope won't necessarily stay on the track. I don't get it...I can understand forgetting to lock a 'biner or forgetting to double back or whatever, but just climbing over an autobelay route on a regular belay is always annoying as hell, 'cause the stupid autobelay rope is in the way, clipped in taut at the bottom!


thephil160


Sep 19, 2004, 3:00 PM
Post #14 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 25, 2004
Posts: 7

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Maybe the guy was just stupid and didnt know what the hell he was doing. Did he have a harness?


kobaz


Sep 19, 2004, 3:02 PM
Post #15 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 19, 2004
Posts: 719

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
so it's not like, say, with a knot, where you could pull a "Lynn Hill" and not rethread or something.

What did Lynn Hill do relating to that? I looked around on google but couldn't find anything about Lynn Hill not tieing in.


joshklingbeil


Sep 19, 2004, 3:45 PM
Post #16 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 6, 2002
Posts: 403

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Maybe you need to read Lynn Hill's book.


prufrock


Sep 19, 2004, 4:22 PM
Post #17 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 378

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

People play the "it would never happen to me/guy's an idiot game" too much.

Maybe the guy is an idiot. Maybe he was seasoned veteran. It doesn't matter. Mistakes happen. You will make a potentially life threatening mistake in you climbing career. Being very safe and smart only decreases the odds, it does not make the risk go away.

This happens. Climbing is dangerous. You can't ever make it completely safe.

Best of wishes to the climber, I hope they recover quickly and fully.


melekzek


Sep 19, 2004, 4:46 PM
Post #18 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 16, 2002
Posts: 1456

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
Maybe you need to read Lynn Hill's book.

he is right

In reply to:
....
"Okay, climbing," I said to Russ, using the simple verbal signal all
climbers use to tell their partner they are setting off.
But this time the system had a glitch in it: pilot error. I had poked the
rope into the loop in my harness, but, distracted by the actions of fetching
my rock shoes and chatting with the japanese girl, I had not tied the knot.
The end of the rope hung at my waist, hidden underneat my jacket, like a
ticking time bomb. Neither I nor anyone else at the cliff noticed my
potentially fatal mistake.
....
At any point in the 72 feet of Buffet Froid's steep face, the rope could
have slipped out of my harness and snaked down the cliff through the
carabiners to land in a pile on the ground.
...
But the rope did not detach from my harness and Russ did not get the
opportunity to come scampering up the rock to rescue me. Had that happened,
we would have engaged in one of those caring-yet-chiding husband-wife tiffs
that end in laughter.
....
And then I reached the end of the climb, about 72 feet above the ground....
To descent safely, I only had to lean back and Russ would hold me, carefully
letting the rope slide through his belay device... I leaned back, expecting
the rope to hold me. Instead, I felt the rush of air against my cheek.
.....
Climbers at the cliff and in the valley that day described a "bloodcurdling
scream" that echoed off the walls. My scream -an involuntary shout of
horror- was even heard by Pierre, the mayor of Buoux, who sat in the library
of his house half a mile away. Looking toward the source of the scream,
climbers on neighboring routes saw a figure free-falling down the cliff,
carving an outward arc through the sky. All told, I covered the 72 feet in
less than two seconds.
....
It is not true that in a fall one sees one's life flash before one's eyes.
There is not enough time for even a single formed thought. But survival
instincts are wired on a faster pathway that any other mental process, and
when I saw the approaching tree I knew instinctively that my best chance to
live was to land in it. If it could be said that I aimed myself at any
landing zone, it was toward that short, stunted green oak tree.
Speeding toward it, I tucked my body into a ball, blasted through its
brances, then my left buttock slammed into a lattice of tree roots sprawling
on the ground. The impact jarred the senses out of me.
Jennifer Cole, an american climber at the cliff that day, said that when I
hit I bounced three feet into the air like a rubber ball, then I released my
tuck with the flail of arms and smacked onto the ground, face first into the
limey dirt.


verticalclimb


Sep 19, 2004, 4:56 PM
Post #19 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 16, 2003
Posts: 34

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
Maybe the guy was just stupid and didnt know what the hell he was doing. Did he have a harness?

Yeah, climbing is one of those sports that tend to weed out the dumb ones the hard way!!!


exovus


Sep 19, 2004, 5:07 PM
Post #20 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 9, 2004
Posts: 2

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

If you are talking about the fall at Earthtreks 2 weeks ago, I saw it happen. The climber fell, got up and walked around immediately after while moaning in agony/pain. ET Employees jumped to his aid and he left in an ambulance. I heard he sustained no major injuries despite falling a solid 35 feet. I do not know where you got this broken leg, back thing from, but if it is the incident I WITNESSED he surely did not do that much damage to himself.


dutyje


Sep 19, 2004, 6:37 PM
Post #21 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 31, 2004
Posts: 727

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
If you are talking about the fall at Earthtreks 2 weeks ago, I saw it happen. The climber fell, got up and walked around immediately after while moaning in agony/pain. ET Employees jumped to his aid and he left in an ambulance. I heard he sustained no major injuries despite falling a solid 35 feet. I do not know where you got this broken leg, back thing from, but if it is the incident I WITNESSED he surely did not do that much damage to himself.

I heard from a friend of a guy whose sister's boyfriend was there that the guy topped out the climb, and the auto-belay device severed the rope..... and chopped off his hand. The guy screamed and fell to the ground, fracturing his spine in multiple places. The neuro-surgeon had to re-construct his spinal cord out of copper wire and he has been eating out of a straw ever since.

With the passage of time, and the relay of information through others, stories tend to become a lot more interesting. I think the point here is that the guy forgot to clip in. My opinion is that, with a partner, the likelihood of these accidents can be introduced. Even though you're relying on the diligence of one more person, that extra person can easily catch mistakes such as this.


timstich


Sep 19, 2004, 7:20 PM
Post #22 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 2, 2003
Posts: 6263

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:

I heard from a friend of a guy whose sister's boyfriend was there that the guy topped out the climb, and the auto-belay device severed the rope..... and chopped off his hand.

No, that was the auto-erotic asphyxia machine at the massage parlor next door. And it didn't cut off his hand, it cut off his hmmm hmmm.


reno


Sep 19, 2004, 7:27 PM
Post #23 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I never forget to flush the toliet.

you will eventually forget. in your girlfriends house. while her parents are visiting. murph's rules, you know.

After eating bean burritos with corn salsa.

:)


Partner oldsalt


Sep 20, 2004, 6:12 AM
Post #24 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 19, 2004
Posts: 919

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

After browsing the posts that followed my admission of stupidity, I recall a mitigating circumstance...

While waiting for the open strap, I was bouldering at the base of the adjoining wall to keep loose. I think that the transition from bouldering to roped climbing is what allowed me to get going without noticing the absence of the auto-belay strap. This error could happen more often than confessed here.

Anyone find yourself at least "starting" up without the auto-belay after bouldering?

(This is not an anti-bouldering post, honest!)


corpse


Sep 20, 2004, 6:47 AM
Post #25 of 72 (43474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 17, 2003
Posts: 822

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I understand ppl make mistakes - but there's a difference of forgetting to clip a biner into your harness where you clearly feel 8-10lbs of upward force, vs. someone interrupting you and you fail to finish tying your figure 8. Even after the 1st time on an auto-belay, it was pretty easy to ensure that I was clipped in.. However, I still double-check myself to ensure I'm clipped into my belay loop on my harness.. Tie in, chalk up, look at route a little, check clip-in, climb. And perhaps a little bit of OCD here, but before I lower myself, I will confirm the biner is still clipped- and that it's not crossloaded as I lower - but this step is pretty unnecessary.


madriver


Sep 20, 2004, 6:58 AM
Post #26 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 17, 2001
Posts: 8700

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

nirvana wrote:
In reply to:
Well, at the risk of sounding stupid, I'll 'fess up: I forgot to clip in on autobelay and managed to get about 30 feet up before I realized my mistake. Coincidentally, I happened to be at azontherocks. I was pretty shaken, mostly 'cause I couldn't figure out how I could possibly forget to clip in. But the fact is, I'd had a long day at work, I was preoccupied, and I spaced out. The space out factor can happen any time and any place.

Believe me, I check and recheck before I climb on autobelay now!

...done it. Working on a route I had unclipped, taken a short break. Went back to the route totally focused on the sequence I had to do. Got abot 20' feet up and realized I had not clipped in.

I now feel like I can comment in "Free Solo" threads... 8^)

bob


beesty511


Sep 20, 2004, 7:12 AM
Post #27 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 4, 2004
Posts: 336

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Auto belay accident?

I heard the climber decked because of a catastrophic harness failure: his harness failed to clip itself into the auto belayer.


boulderman


Sep 20, 2004, 7:22 AM
Post #28 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 18, 2003
Posts: 238

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

This doesn't make sense.

I climb at ET 3 days a week and am familiar with their auto belay system. How did this kid walk up to the auto belay, unclip it from the wall and them forget to clip in? Only one thing happens when you don't clip in after unclipping it from the wall. It zips up to the top of the wall at about 50mph and makes a lot of noise. Then the whole gym looks at you and laughs. Now, someone has to tie into a rope and retrieve it. So if he continued up the route after that, he was deaf, blind, and dumb! The only thing that would make sense to me is that he clipped in but not carefully. Maybe the self locking carabineer closed with a piece of harness webbing in the way keeping the carabineer open, then when he weighted the carabineer, it opened. Maybe he only ran the carabineer through the belt of his harness and that failed. I saw a kid tie into just the belt loop the other day and luckily someone called him on it when he was 5 ft. up. Anyhow, I will talk to some people and find out what really happened.

ET used to use a two-carabineer system. It was a pain in the a$$, but the redundancy may have been a good idea for the young inexperienced climbers. At least you remember to “go through” that pain in the a$$!


boku


Sep 20, 2004, 7:31 AM
Post #29 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 11, 2004
Posts: 278

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I've seen a similar accident at the gym I go to, where it appears that the auto-locking clip got stuck open by a strap or shirttail and then disengaged from the harness. The young man fell some 15 or 18 feet to the padded floor, but later got up under his own power and seemd none the worse for wear.

And several times I've gotten to the top of an autobelay climb and remembered that I'd done no serious safety check of my harness when I clipped in. The saving things there are that I'm pretty serious about how I put my harness on before the first climb, and that the auto-locking clips on the autobelay make it pretty easy to solidly clip in.


jman


Sep 20, 2004, 8:02 AM
Post #30 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 438

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

From what I was told from folks working and climbing at the gym that day, it was a pretty serious accident with multiple broken bones.

How it happened from my understading was the person clipped in to climb, realized they had not tied their shoes, unclipped to tie shoes, then started climbing without reattaching to the auto belay. The person involved is a adult.


jakemojo13


Sep 20, 2004, 8:05 AM
Post #31 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 7, 2004
Posts: 38

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Same thing happened at local gym. Employee was running up something easy (to tighten a hold I think) and forgot to clip in to auto-belay. Realized she forgot as she was getting ready to descend and grabbed the ropes (adjacent to auto-belay). Sustained major rope burns to hands but otherwise got off lucky.


crimpandgo


Sep 20, 2004, 8:08 AM
Post #32 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 1005

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Quote:
This doesn't make sense.

I climb at ET 3 days a week and am familiar with their auto belay system. How did this kid walk up to the auto belay, unclip it from the wall and them forget to clip in? Only one thing happens when you don't clip in after unclipping it from the wall

response:
I dont recall anyone saying he unclipped from the wall... I think one root cause is that many gyms let people boulder on the walls up to a certain height (usually the first clip). As someone said earlier I can easily see how you could transition from bouldering mode to climbing mode and forget to clip in. most people are babbling away with their friends not paying the proper attention to what they are doing. Especially if you go to the gym alot. frequency can breed laziness. I am also surprised the gyms let kids run around on the autobelay units unsupervised. I just think it is an accident waiting to happen. I like the autobelay devices because you can climb without a partner. But I just think that kids under a certain age should have to have a parent watching. I go to the gym and you see kids running around everywhere.... it scares the crap out of me when they are hookin in by themselves...


jman


Sep 20, 2004, 8:42 AM
Post #33 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 438

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ET does not typically allow "kids" to clip themselves to an auto-belay. The person involved in the original accident is an adult.


euleto


Sep 20, 2004, 8:51 AM
Post #34 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 85

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Exactly why climbing places should either use ATCs or gri gris. They then ensure (hopefully) that 2 people check knots.

Auto belay devices are bad. Auto Belay devices kill people when they dont work, and People kill themselves with auto belay devices when they have a brain fart. Its better to just never use auto belays


crimpandgo


Sep 20, 2004, 8:58 AM
Post #35 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 1005

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Quote:
ET does not typically allow "kids" to clip themselves to an auto-belay. The person involved in the original accident is an adult.

Response:
I was not referring to ET. I was referring to climbing gyms in general. I have climbed at ET when I was out on travel. I was impressed with the level of control and the degree of attentiveness of the staff. Other gyms I have been to do not show the same degree of attentiveness :(


overlord


Sep 20, 2004, 9:03 AM
Post #36 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

they shouldnt use grigris, they should use ATCs.

sounds like its was going to happen sooner or later. and its probably going to happen again.

thats the worst part about autobelay, you dont have anybody to check your knots.


crimpandgo


Sep 20, 2004, 9:15 AM
Post #37 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 1005

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Partners will not solve this problem entirely. I would not want some of the newbs checking my KNOT. I hear questions like "how do I do this knot again???" I think the new folks in the gym need closer attention from the gym personel until they are more proficient. A few minute lesson in the beginning is not enough.


boulderman


Sep 20, 2004, 10:15 AM
Post #38 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 18, 2003
Posts: 238

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In response to the ATC/gri gri thing:

Yes, ET is a gym, but they are more than a recreational gym, they teach proper and safe mountaineering/climbing/bouldering techniques and training methods. They are also a "mountaineering school". They also teach proper use of the ATC and gri gri. 99% of the wall routes there are roped not auto belay. 50% are lead routes. So most of the time people are belaying with an ATC. I think one of the original purposes for the auto belay at ET was that of convenience for experienced climbers who want a lap workout. Bottom line, climbing is dangerous, gyms are not a place to be fuc$ing around in. There is nothing a gym could of done to prevent this except take the entire wall or auto-belay down. Some very experienced climbers like to use the auto belay to work out or warm up.

The problem with the Auto belay is there is no buddy system. You don't have a partner to back you up. This is bad news for beginners/recreational climbers. They are not as focused or don't have that check system "regiment" in their head. Maybe a good gym rule regardless of the situation is: Don't climb routes without a partner; including auto-belay :roll:
Actually, no.... that's stupid, how about: STOP: CLIMBING IS DANGEROUS, YOU COULD BE KILLED OR SERIOUSLY INJURED WHILE CLIMBING. CHECK AND RECHECK YOUR SYSTEM. THEN..... CHECK IT AGAIN WHILE CLIMBING! How about some individual responsibility people, not the gym should do this or that.


grayhghost


Sep 20, 2004, 10:23 AM
Post #39 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2002
Posts: 444

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Can someone who climbs at ET please explain
this whole Auto-Belay system in detail because
I have never seen it in use and would very much
like to get an idea of what it looks like/does?
thanks


crimpandgo


Sep 20, 2004, 10:32 AM
Post #40 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 1005

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Autobelay devices are not specific to ET. They are used in many gyms. You can find a picture of one in the back of the climbing mags. One of the makers usually has an ad. basically its a device (big metal looking canister) that controls the release of the webbing/rope (that attaches to the climber). The speed of descent is probably dependant on climber weight but is pretty constant.

How you use it? You hook in (attach webbing with biner to harness), climb. When you reach top just lean back and the unit lets you down at a slow, smooth rate.


jman


Sep 20, 2004, 10:33 AM
Post #41 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 438

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Here's a link to an auto belay system manufacture that show a system sim to the one used at ET.

http://www.edgewalls.com/AutoBelay.htm


madriver


Sep 20, 2004, 10:41 AM
Post #42 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 17, 2001
Posts: 8700

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

...I think the more important issue concerning ET is WTF AREN'T YOU HOSTING PETL/ROC comp this year!!! RANT...sorry guys...just expressing my humble opion :lol:

ET is probably one of best staffed and safety concious gyms in the country btw. IMHO the best gym facility in the country. Clearly the accident was just that, human error on the part of the climber.


paulv7


Sep 20, 2004, 11:58 AM
Post #43 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 27, 2003
Posts: 98

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I talked to a couple friends that work at ET after the accident. The person was an adult and indeed broke both legs and I heard "most likely his back." Both his legs suffered open fractures, so it was bad. This guy was knocked unconsious when he hit.

The version I heard (short of it) was the guy forgot to put on his shoes unhooked (clipped auto-belayer back to the wall) Didn't hook back in, climbed, fell.

The auto belay system is a tension system that applies 10lbs. of upward pull on a piece of webbing attached to your harness by a locking biner. So it's kinda annoying and very noticable while climbing. When you fall it pays out and the further it pays out the webbing the more tension it creates so as you get closer to the ground you slow down. I'm not positive on how the entire system works you can find more I'm sure on one of the links above.

(Quick side story) We hooked one of my friends small children up to it and it pulled her about 5ft. off the ground then she just hung there.

The reason ET stopped the 2 biner and having leashes on the auto-belayers to retrieve them when people let them go to the roof is because it was twisting the webbing badly.


crimpandgo


Sep 20, 2004, 12:03 PM
Post #44 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 1005

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

So, was there two accidents involving autobelays in a short period? someone else posted saying someone fell with no injuries?


paulv7


Sep 20, 2004, 12:12 PM
Post #45 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 27, 2003
Posts: 98

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I believe so but do not know this for sure. One of the people I talked to from ET wants nothing to do with auto-belayers. They said several people had been hurt recently on them but I didn't ask about it. They did say it was all user error and the system worked fine.

I have been climbing on these things since they were put in at ET and have never had an issue with them.

ET may get rid of them after this and I can't blame them. Personally I like them because it allows me to run in by myself for an hour climb routes vs. boulder. But if it's going to cause bad publicity and lawsuits for ET they need to get rid of them. There are to many stupid people out there that can't follow a picture on the wall. I suggested they put a picture of the guy that fell with his shins sticking out of the legs and a warning "This could be you, think before you climb."


jaybird2


Sep 20, 2004, 12:15 PM
Post #46 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 9, 2004
Posts: 163

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
I can understand forgetting to lock a 'biner or forgetting to double back or whatever, but just climbing over an autobelay route on a regular belay is always annoying as hell, 'cause the stupid autobelay rope is in the way, clipped in taut at the bottom!

Many gyms tie 15-20 feet back from the wall (bottom anchor, not the machine itself) so that the rope is nowhere near the wall.

Auto-Belays Don't Kill People. People Kill People.


plund


Sep 20, 2004, 12:32 PM
Post #47 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 6, 2003
Posts: 302

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

It's a bummer the guy was hurt, and I hope he makes a fast & full recovery. That said, I think beesty511 has it right - OBVIOUSLY a catastrophic harness failure...

Reminds me of the news items titled "Climber injured / killed at (insert crag name here)" & it turns out to be hikers who scrambled themselves into the sh1t & plummeted. Tragic - yes, but not a "climbing accident".

Gotta do the double/triple-checks, especially when you're alone....

Again, hope the guy recovers, and the gym isn't bent over a barrel....


diana


Sep 20, 2004, 12:49 PM
Post #48 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2003
Posts: 93

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
Auto belay devices are bad. Auto Belay devices kill people when they dont work, and People kill themselves with auto belay devices when they have a brain fart. Its better to just never use auto belays

That's just silly. People do stupid things with climbing equipment all the time. Are you going to say ropes are bad and we shouldn't use them when someone misuses a rope? Or that harnesses are bad and we should never use them when someone doesn't finish doubling back and falls out of them?

If he had used the auto-belay, it would have worked exactly the way it was supposed to. The only auto-belay fatality ever reported was one of unforgivably poor maintenance by the owner.

Don't blame the product when it's not used in the intended way.
Diana


robmcc


Sep 20, 2004, 12:51 PM
Post #49 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 31, 2003
Posts: 2176

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
Auto-Belays Don't Kill People. People Kill People.

Gotta agree with that. If this report is correct and the climber just simply didn't clip or tie in at all, it's 100% pilot error. Sucks when it happens and surely no one is immune, but any time there's a safety system present and you don't use it, it's no one's fault but your own.

I'll just wish the climber a speedy recovery and suggest he (she?) not do that again. :P

Rob


crimpandgo


Sep 20, 2004, 1:16 PM
Post #50 of 72 (10562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 15, 2004
Posts: 1005

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

IT will be unfortunate if gyms stop using the autobelay devices. I understand the reasons... If they get sued too often, there won't be a gym to climb at... but I have just started making use of the autobelays for those days that I cant get a partner. It sure is nice to get that extra climbing in when not able to get outdoors to the real rock.


moeman


Sep 20, 2004, 1:42 PM
Post #51 of 72 (10417 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 1, 2002
Posts: 1417

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ET Columbia or ET Timonium?


iridesantacruz


Sep 20, 2004, 1:57 PM
Post #52 of 72 (10417 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 2, 2002
Posts: 594

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
Bet he won't do that again...

$20 on that


markc


Sep 20, 2004, 1:59 PM
Post #53 of 72 (10417 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 2479

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Auto-Belays Don't Kill People. People Kill People.

Gotta agree with that. If this report is correct and the climber just simply didn't clip or tie in at all, it's 100% pilot error. Sucks when it happens and surely no one is immune, but any time there's a safety system present and you don't use it, it's no one's fault but your own.

I'll just wish the climber a speedy recovery and suggest he (she?) not do that again. :P

Rob

It's like having an unroped accident near the soda machine and saying "Soda-Machine Gym Accident." The soda machine didn't do anything wrong. It's an inanimate object. The climber is the only one responsible in this instance. Unfortunate, but not equipment error.

mark


jman


Sep 20, 2004, 2:45 PM
Post #54 of 72 (10417 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 438

Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
ET Columbia or ET Timonium?

ET Columbia.

This weekend ET Timonium put up big signs at each auto belay station attached to the biner, saying "Orientation Required"...guess to remind folks to think before they clip in. Have not been to ET Columbia this week yet and don't know if they put up sim signs.

I agree with most everyone else and think more accidents are caused by user error than equipment failure.


wage22


Sep 20, 2004, 7:50 PM
Post #55 of 72 (10417 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 6, 2004
Posts: 24

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I too can unfortunately relate to this "stupidity". Went to Azontherocks, bouldered for a bit, walked right over the wall and began to climb up. Scooting up the way, didnt even notice the rope right in front of me.
It wasnt until some nice fello below shouted up to me (about 20 ft ) "hey, you're not hooked in", that I began to panic. Tried to downclimb but sticking your hand right in a crack didnt really "fly" with that and I wound up hitting the floor.

It was scary, no doubt about it - but most of all it taught me the importance of FOCUS when I climb. Again, seems like an obvious with climbing, if you're like me, you unfortunately learn things the hard way!


valeberga


Sep 20, 2004, 8:19 PM
Post #56 of 72 (10417 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 2, 2003
Posts: 434

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Alright, that's it. The gyms have gone too far. Autobelays? This is not rock climbing. Get a f'ing partner for christ's sake. As if bouldering wasn't enough. :roll:


corpse


Sep 21, 2004, 5:51 AM
Post #57 of 72 (10417 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 17, 2003
Posts: 822

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Although i see why the autobelays are givin so many ppl anxiety attacks, but they can have their pluses too.. There are more injuries related from ppl climbing with a new partner and being dropped by an inexperienced belayer than there are autobelay accidents. And do we know of any properly maintained auto-belay ever failing? Don't think so. When I go to the gym (that has autobelays) and want to do some laps on the wall, I will usually use the autobelay. I trust the experience of an engineer over the inexperience of a belayer - and I've seen so many crappy belayers at the gym that I'd rather use the auto-belay.
To me, the biggest downside of autobelays, is it builds up more anti-socialness at times. Asking for a belay requires 2 ppl talking, which is good to be amongst old and new friends - but hell, there are times I don't WANT to talk to anyone.


scottcody


Sep 21, 2004, 6:52 AM
Post #58 of 72 (10417 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 26, 2003
Posts: 577

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
Once I reached about 20-25 feet up, well above the overhang, I realized that I was free soloing. I downclimbed without difficulty, but shaken, more worried about being seen unbelayed than about falling.

:shock: Dude.... You are HARD CORE!

Free solo... in a gym... with pea gravel/shoe rubber/gym mat underneath you...
wow... impressive


boulderman


Sep 22, 2004, 7:54 AM
Post #59 of 72 (10417 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 18, 2003
Posts: 238

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Update:

3 accidents in the last month or so involving the use, (actually.... lack of use) of the auto belay system. First kid, (forgot to clip in), was shaken up, but no serious injuries. Second person, (clipped in, unclipped, tied shoes, climbed), had multiple fractures of legs, ankles, and spine. The third (didn’t clip in), was two days ago. Again, serious injuries and probable fractures, but no specifics yet. The 3rd incident was after the big signs were put up in front of the auto belay routes. These signs obscured the starting holds of the auto belay route and had the rope clipped into the top of the sign. You had to unclip the rope to get the sign out of the way to get to starting moves. Evidently the guy forgot to clip in and climbed around the starting moves, then finished 35 ft. up and sat back to be lowered and fell.

What can you say? These are just incomprehensible climber errors. What in the hell are people thinking about?

ET has taken all auto belays down for the moment and they are reevaluating their use in the gym.


dontfall


Sep 22, 2004, 7:59 AM
Post #60 of 72 (10417 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 31, 2003
Posts: 2798

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I never forget to flush the toliet.

you will eventually forget. in your girlfriends house. while her parents are visiting. murph's rules, you know.

i once clogged the toilet at my girlfriends house....


overlord


Sep 22, 2004, 8:03 AM
Post #61 of 72 (10417 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 14120

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
The 3rd incident was after the big signs were put up in front of the auto belay routes. These signs obscured the starting holds of the auto belay route and had the rope clipped into the top of the sign. You had to unclip the rope to get the sign out of the way to get to starting moves. Evidently the guy forgot to clip in and climbed around the starting moves, then finished 35 ft. up and sat back to be lowered and fell.

well, you really have to be trying to be that stupid. thats close to unbelievable.

looks like darwin botched it this time.


gremlin


Sep 24, 2004, 1:23 PM
Post #62 of 72 (10419 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 1, 2004
Posts: 267

Re: Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I can't say I've ever climbed on an auto belay device, or a gym for that matter, but if ET really took down all the auto belay things to reevaluate their use because of the 3 incidents stated, it's a sad sad day.

Honestly, that 3rd guy just plain deserved his fall. I can't see ANY valid excuse for anyone to sympathize with him if boulderman related the facts correctly.

If someone were to die free soloing, it would be a shame, but I'd be outraged if they "reevaluated cliff usage" because of it. If someone is a dumbass and pointedly ignores gym safety signs, climbs up without the rope, and falls and hurts himself, it is his own damn fault, and everyone else shouldn't suffer because of it.

I swear to god this country is getting so damn pussified with lawsuits over every . single . thing.

2 guys in New York I believe it was sued the city because the fence and the warning signs they climbed over/passed by weren't enough warning that perhaps jumping off the dock wasn't a good idea. They jumped, one broke his legs or got a concussion or some such nonsense. And they won the suit.

In summary, I hate the people who fell and ruined things for other people who could properly use the devices, and I wouldn't have mourned their deaths at all. Now I'm off to the NRG to climb the weekend away and if I die, it damn sure won't be because I forgot to tie myself in.

/bitter


qwimjim


Apr 22, 2011, 8:59 AM
Post #63 of 72 (1647 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 4, 2011
Posts: 17

Re: [gremlin] Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

just to bump this thread back to life, the third accident example listed here where the guy goes around the sign, climbs to the top, and falls just proves that there's not much you can do to prevent someone incomprehensibly stupid from hurting themselves.

1. you can put up a sign 10 feet up that says "are you clipped in?" to remind people to double check. this might help some people, but after a while people will just ignore the sign. you can also put that sign again at the top to remind people to double check they are clipped in before sitting back. that won't save stupid people though.

2. you can make sure that every route has a 5.5 jug route on the same rope, for all those guys who posted in the thread about how they once found themselves halfway up a wall before realizing they weren't clipped in. that way there's always a no stress down climb available. that won't save stupid people though.

3. you can make the flooring of the auto belay area 12-24" gym mats. that might save some broken bones of stupid people.

4. you can install enough auto belays so that it makes financial sense to have someone monitoring them whenever they are in use. that's the only thing that can save the truly stupid from themselves.

5. you can put a camera on your auto belay wall that is constantly recording, just in case someone tries to sue you for their stupidity.


billl7


Apr 22, 2011, 9:18 AM
Post #64 of 72 (1639 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 1888

Re: [qwimjim] Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The auto-belay accidents continue of course ... Our gym had one about two weeks ago. Poor fellow decked and drove the end of one of his tibia's into the foam padding leaving a hole. I understand he was listening to music on ear buds (or whatever) and those have now been banned at the gym under certain circumstances.


Partner robdotcalm


Apr 22, 2011, 9:44 AM
Post #65 of 72 (1629 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 31, 2002
Posts: 1023

Re: [qwimjim] Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

qwimjim wrote:
there's not much you can do to prevent someone incomprehensibly stupid from hurting themselves.

1. you can put up a sign 10 feet up that says "are you clipped in?" to remind people to double check. that won't save stupid people though.
You are so right. It didn't save me
stupid accident

In reply to:
I understand he was listening to music on ear buds (or whatever) and those have now been banned at the gym under certain circumstances.

Actually, I thought of suing the gym for the disco music they were playing when I was climbing, which was enough to make anyone have an accident.

Cheers,
Rob.calm


suprasoup


Apr 22, 2011, 9:49 AM
Post #66 of 72 (1626 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 7, 2005
Posts: 309

Re: [billl7] Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

billl7 wrote:
The auto-belay accidents continue of course ... Our gym had one about two weeks ago. Poor fellow decked and drove the end of one of his tibia's into the foam padding leaving a hole. I understand he was listening to music on ear buds (or whatever) and those have now been banned at the gym under certain circumstances.

Is it your opinion that the ear buds were a major contributing factor in the climbers accident and hence the reason for the ban or was it merely a knee jerk reaction to said accident.

Supra


billl7


Apr 22, 2011, 10:30 AM
Post #67 of 72 (1602 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 1888

Re: [suprasoup] Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I think the owner / insurance company are grasping at things to help prevent or reduce such accidents. Not sure myself of effectiveness.

More generally, I cringe when I see folks climbing (roped or unroped) with ears litterly plugged into music. ... seems like hindering one of your senses from detecting a problem - like hearing someone yelling out "Heh, you forgot to clip in!" (not that this auto-belay accident had that particular component.)


ClimbSoHigh


Apr 22, 2011, 10:33 AM
Post #68 of 72 (1602 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 28, 2008
Posts: 208

Re: [suprasoup] Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Never used em, prolly never will. Would rather rope solo than use an auto belayer.


shotwell


Apr 22, 2011, 11:49 AM
Post #69 of 72 (1577 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 5, 2009
Posts: 366

Re: [qwimjim] Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

http://www.nicros.com/safety.cfm

Likely expensive, but IMO worth it. It really is a shame you don't see this setup more often.


altelis


Apr 22, 2011, 12:19 PM
Post #70 of 72 (1566 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 2168

Re: [shotwell] Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

shotwell wrote:
http://www.nicros.com/safety.cfm

Likely expensive, but IMO worth it. It really is a shame you don't see this setup more often.

Seems like a totally over-engineered solution.


shotwell


Apr 22, 2011, 12:30 PM
Post #71 of 72 (1562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 5, 2009
Posts: 366

Re: [altelis] Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Well, the real solution is to have gym staff that actually supervise the floor. In my area this doesn't happen often making this seem like a decent 'replacement' for a competent human. There would be no need for any sort of 'solution' to the problem if gym staff didn't sit behind the desk and ignore what is happening on the floor.

You won't fix the laziness you'll find in most smaller gyms. People just aren't paid enough to give a shit.


qwimjim


Apr 22, 2011, 1:49 PM
Post #72 of 72 (1524 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 4, 2011
Posts: 17

Re: [shotwell] Auto-Belay Gym Accident [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

shotwell wrote:
Well, the real solution is to have gym staff that actually supervise the floor. In my area this doesn't happen often making this seem like a decent 'replacement' for a competent human. There would be no need for any sort of 'solution' to the problem if gym staff didn't sit behind the desk and ignore what is happening on the floor.

You won't fix the laziness you'll find in most smaller gyms. People just aren't paid enough to give a shit.

Yeah but you'd need someone specifically watching that area at all times, which could get costly. It only takes a couple minutes for someone to shoot up a wall, sit back, and fall. It seems all these accidents are absent minded adults, not kids.. at some point stupid people are just going to hurt or kill themselves. Whether it's climbing up a gym wall and at no point making sure they were locked in, or crossing a busy street without looking to see if any cars are coming.


Forums : Climbing Information : Injury Treatment and Prevention

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?
$57.56 (10% off)
$49.46 (10% off)
$18.86 (10% off)
$7.16 (10% off)



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook