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thegreytradster
Oct 18, 2004, 6:50 PM
Post #151 of 173
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In reply to: I love how none of the gun supports can actually say why they need them... and if it's more then a 6 shooter or a rifle I don't think you need it.
I don't think you need to go climbing either. :roll:
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tgreene
Oct 18, 2004, 6:54 PM
Post #152 of 173
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In reply to: I love how none of the gun supports can actually say why they need them... and if it's more then a 6 shooter or a rifle I don't think you need it.
BTW: The firearms that you would allow, are responsible for better than 90% of all gun crimes! The ones you want to outlaw, are not only rarely ever used in crimes, but you guys also can't seem to state what it really is that you don't like about them, other than a menacing appearance.
BTW: I don't "need" as assault rifle, nor have I actually owned one since about 1993 (aside from the machineguns which were store inventory). I have however very recently owned each of the rifles I posted pictures of, but then again, none of those were classified as "assault rifles"! :wink:
Also, none of you has yet to establish a valid reason as to why we need automobiles, which kill more people each day, than the annual number of gun related deaths. Then we have the whole issue of drunken politicians with access to loaded suburban assault vehicles! :shock:
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blueeyedclimber
Oct 18, 2004, 7:13 PM
Post #153 of 173
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In reply to: Also, none of you has yet to establish a valid reason as to why we need automobiles, which kill more people each day, than the annual number of gun related deaths. Then we have the whole issue of drunken politicians with access to loaded suburban assault vehicles! :shock:
How would I take a road trip without a car. You like to play word games, don't you. You refuse to answer any of my questions. But, you are correct in that I know absolutely nothing about guns. Don't really want to either. That said, all I really care about is the welfare and safety of human beings (you included). I am just very curious about "gun nuts" being very defensive about restrictions when they are just trying to make the world safer. Cars are continually being built safer as are traffic laws being better enforced. The fact is that cars were not invented to do harm, but guns were.
I would write more, but i have a meeting.
Sorry about the "gun nut" crack, it was the first thing that came to mind.
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danooguy
Oct 18, 2004, 7:18 PM
Post #154 of 173
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L.A. INSURRECTION SURPASSES 1965 WATTS RIOTS, 38 DEAD, MORE THAN 1,200 INJUREDBy: Clark Staten, EMT-P
Los Angeles, CA - The latest reported deaths in Los Angeles bring to thirty-eight the total that have been killed as the result of the fires, riots, and shooting that has plagued this second largest American city. The death toll has risen following another night of violence and mayhem that is said, by some, to be the consequences for the acquittal of four L.A.P.D. officers in Simi Valley, CA on Wednesday.
The current totals of dead, injuried and damage done now exceed those that occured in 1965, when residents of the Watts section of Los Angeles erupted after the arrest of a black man by a white highway patrol officer. Thirty-four (34) people died in the following six-days of chaos, 1,000 were injuried, and $200 miilion dollars in damage was done. Older eyewitnesses say that the most current riots far exceed the days of the Watts riots, both in intensity and level of violence.
As 4,000 regular Army troops and 1,000 federal law enforcement officers move into Los Angeles, people have begun to actually assess the severity of this latest day of "revolution". They find thirty-eight (38) people dead, 1,250 people injuried, 3,600 structural fires, hundreds of businesses looted and closed, and more than 3,000 people arrested. At least four (4) police officers and three (3) firefighters have been shot and hundreds of other injuried as they attempted to control the fires and lawlessness of the past three days.
A "Dusk to Dawn" curfew has been imposed by Mayor Tom Bradley, in an effort to prevent citizens from congregating into the groups that have controlled the streets in recent days. The curfew also finally has "teeth" as 4,000 California National Guardsmen assist the police in securing areas of previous violence. This evening, the National Guard Units were also "federalized" by President Bush and supplemented by another 4,000 Army and Marine troops with orders to act as "Light-Infantry" and to "return fire if fired upon".
Reports are received at the time of this report that authorities may be gaining a tactical advantage and that, with the help of an added 9,000 law enforcement and military personnel, the situation may be under control by the weekend. According to current reports, there have been fewer fires and shooting incidents since the curfew was instituted on Friday evening.
The wave of destruction, which had spread from Southcentral Los Angeles to Downtown, to Pasadena, to Hollywood, and to Koreatown, has not always seemed just a response to the Rodney King verdict. Often in it's intensity, the "rioting beast" did not pay attention to the race, color, or creed of it's victims; it struck indiscriminately. Early video tapes of the "rioters" sometimes showed middle class white youths, street gang members, and those that have been associated with radical organizations such as the American Communist Party.
Differing agendas seemed to be "at play" in differing circumstances. Much looting appeared to "opportunistic" in scope and origin. Entire families were seen working together to steal from stores in their own neighborhoods. Often, what was being stolen was not of any necessity, but rather luxury items such as designer gym shoes, radios, and starter jackets. Frequently, it just appeared that it was those "without" were taking from those "with", because they could.
In other situations, the anger and frustration was expressed by pulling white motorists from cars and trucks and brutally beating and kicking them. In one such case, Reginald Oliver Denny, was pulled from his truck as he stopped to prevent hitting looters who filled the street. The incident was captured by a helicopter television news crew as it occured and was broadcast live. Some viewers said that the violence that was portrayed was as "violent and sickening" as any that occured to Rodney King. Denny was taken to Daniel Freeman Hospital after the furious beating, and has been upgraded from critical to serious, following brain sugery to remove a blood clot.
Arson was another way that some people vented their rage of various kinds. Fire Chief Donald Manning was quoted as saying that the Los Angeles Fire Dept. has responded to more than 3,600 fires in the past three days. Further, he commented that at given times during the past two days, the L.A.F.D. was receiving calls for three (3) fires every minute. He said that this level of need for service far exceeded the department's ability to respond and that this call volume was five (5) times that of normal.
Manning said that additional fire units were called from all over California to help fight the conflagrations that spread through neighborhood after neighborhood. Efforts were also reportedly hampered on numerous occasions by sniper fire and direct confrontations against firefighters. One firefighter was quoted as saying yesterday; "I'd feel a lot more secure if they gave me a rifle". He was responding to the fact that at least three firefighters have been reportedly shot while in the performance of their duties, and that often police officers were not available to accompany and protect fire units while they performed their already dangerous duties.
Los Angeles Police say that the circumstances also "unleashed" criminals, street gangs, and others who's only motive in involvement in the riots was that of profit. They point out the fact that this was also felt to be the perfect opportunity to justify acts of violence, by street gang members, against members of the police department. Police Chief Daryl Gates admitted that on several occasions his forces had also been "overwhelmed" and unable to respond to even calls for assistance from fellow officers and firefighters. This reportedly enabled those that would engage in revenge against any official agency to feel that they could do so with impunity.
As the senseless violence reached it's peak in Los Angeles on Thursday night, reports began to be received that it had spread to other cities and states across the country.
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vertical_reality
Oct 18, 2004, 7:19 PM
Post #155 of 173
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In reply to: In reply to: I love how none of the gun supports can actually say why they need them... and if it's more then a 6 shooter or a rifle I don't think you need it. Likewise, I love how none of you anti's can say why we don't. :wink:
If you hunt, sure you probably need a rifle. For home protection, I could see you needing a 6 shooter or other small firearm... but I do not see the need for you to own a sniper rifle that is "camoflagued" to match the roof top (which by the way is extremely stupid because the rifle would be higher then the subject so it should be blue, like the sky!)
In reply to: BTW: The firearms that you would allow, are responsible for better than 90% of all gun crimes! The ones you want to outlaw, are not only rarely ever used in crimes, but you guys also can't seem to state what it really is that you don't like about them, other than a menacing appearance.
I can easily state what I don't like about them. They shoot little peices of metal designed to kill... but everyone is afforded the right to protect themselves, so be it, but when was the last time you were in a situation where you needed to shoot more then six times and then have to reload.
In reply to: BTW: I don't "need" as assault rifle, nor have I actually owned one since about 1993 ( aside from the machineguns which were store inventory). I have however very recently owned each of the rifles I posted pictures of, but then again, none of those were classified as "assault rifles"! :wink: Also, none of you has yet to establish a valid reason as to why we need automobiles, which kill more people each day, than the annual number of gun related deaths. Then we have the whole issue of drunken politicians with access to loaded suburban assault vehicles! :shock:
Ha, I don't even own a car.
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danooguy
Oct 18, 2004, 7:21 PM
Post #156 of 173
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In reply to: ...but when was the last time you were in a situation where you needed to shoot more then six times and then have to reload.
In that case, why do you have a spare tire in your car? When was the last time you needed 5 tires?
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tgreene
Oct 18, 2004, 7:38 PM
Post #157 of 173
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In reply to: How would I take a road trip without a car.
Also, I've yet to ever see a Hammerelli or Volquartsen that was created to kill.
More people die in climbing accidents each year, then from an "assault rifle" in the hands of Joe citizen...
Oh, and as to the comments about my Urban Camo AR: Not all urban tactical scenarios are rooftop situations, and in fact, most are not. That particular rifle, is capable of 1-hole shots at 100 yards, with 25-30mph sustained crosswinds. On a calm day w/o mirages, it will shoot cloverleafs at 300 yards, all day long! I personally built that rifle from the ground up, specifically for law enforcement sharpshooters, but liked it so much that I decided to keep it for myself.
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vertical_reality
Oct 18, 2004, 7:42 PM
Post #158 of 173
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In reply to: In reply to: ...but when was the last time you were in a situation where you needed to shoot more then six times and then have to reload. In that case, why do you have a spare tire in your car? When was the last time you needed 5 tires?
I don't have a spare tire in my car, I don't have a car.
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danooguy
Oct 19, 2004, 2:18 AM
Post #159 of 173
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In reply to: I don't have a spare tire in my car, I don't have a car.
You do have flaws in your reasoning and spare flaws in your reasoning.
Why do you need so many flaws? :)
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tgreene
Oct 19, 2004, 12:01 PM
Post #160 of 173
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True or False: Firearms require serial numbers.
True or False: Serial numbers must be unique.
True or False: Serial numbers may not be altered.
True or False: Serial numbers are registered with the ATF.
True or False: Serial numbers are registered with NICS when purchased.
True or False: Firearm make & model are registered with NICS when purchased.
True or False: Only properly licensed companies may manufacture or import firearms.
True or False: The largest collection of privately owned ASSAULT WEAPONS is in cached away somewhere in Utah.
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vertical_reality
Oct 19, 2004, 1:52 PM
Post #161 of 173
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In reply to: Oh, and as to the comments about my Urban Camo AR: Not all urban tactical scenarios are rooftop situations, and in fact, most are not.
That sort of defeats the purpose of the roof top camo then.
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tgreene
Oct 19, 2004, 1:54 PM
Post #162 of 173
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In reply to: In reply to: Oh, and as to the comments about my Urban Camo AR: Not all urban tactical scenarios are rooftop situations, and in fact, most are not. That sort of defeats the purpose of the roof top camo then. |
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vertical_reality
Oct 19, 2004, 1:56 PM
Post #163 of 173
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You sure like throwing around the new buzz word - "Assault Weapon".
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tgreene
Oct 19, 2004, 1:58 PM
Post #164 of 173
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See above! :boring:
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monkey_toes
Oct 19, 2004, 2:48 PM
Post #165 of 173
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In reply to: True or False: Firearms require serial numbers. True or False: Serial numbers must be unique. True or False: Serial numbers may not be altered. True or False: Serial numbers are registered with the ATF. True or False: Serial numbers are registered with NICS when purchased. True or False: Firearm make & model are registered with NICS when purchased. True or False: Only properly licensed companies may manufacture or import firearms. True or False: The largest collection of privately owned ASSAULT WEAPONS is in cached away somewhere in Utah.
I think all the above are true - apart from the last one (which I have no idea) - who's going to fess up to owning the largest collection of privately owned assault weapons :D
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overlord
Oct 19, 2004, 2:54 PM
Post #166 of 173
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Registered: Mar 25, 2002
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In reply to: True or False: The largest collection of privately owned ASSAULT WEAPONS is in cached away somewhere in Utah.
if this is true, id be really worried.
you know, religious fanatics and such+guns=something bad.
and like i said before, its too late for any gun-control laws in USA. the only people who would obey are the ones who you DONT have to worry about using such weapons to hurt others withouts just cause.
what you need to change is not the gun policy, but the state of mind of gun owners and general public (wich, sometimes, are the same :twisted:).
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tgreene
Oct 19, 2004, 3:12 PM
Post #167 of 173
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In reply to: In reply to: True or False: Firearms require serial numbers. FALSE -- An individual can legally build 1 per year, and no serial number is necessary, as long as the firearm is never transferred to another person. True or False: Serial numbers must be unique. FALSE -- Firearms can have the same serial number, as long as they are from different manufacturers True or False: Serial numbers may not be altered. FALSE -- Overstamping is done all the time, by licensed manufacturers that alter the original constructs of the firearm. This is done when converting to a full-auto weapon. True or False: Serial numbers are registered with the ATF. TRUE and FALSE -- Only firearms and other weapons specifically requiring an SOT or Tax Stamp are tracked. True or False: Serial numbers are registered with NICS when purchased. FALSE -- The only information given is the ID of the buyer and the firearm type (long gun -or- handgun) True or False: Firearm make & model are registered with NICS when purchased. FALSE -- see above True or False: Only properly licensed companies may manufacture or import firearms. TRUE and FALSE -- Importation requires a special license, but see #1 for manufacturing. In addition, there are 2 manufacturing licenses (Type 07 and 02). 07 is for standard firearms, and 02 is for machineguns. True or False: The largest collection of privately owned ASSAULT WEAPONS is in cached away somewhere in Utah. FALSE -- it's a rental company in Hollywood. Yes, the firearms you see in the movies are very real, and that's how Brandon Lee was killed! I think all the above are true - apart from the last one (which I have no idea) - who's going to fess up to owning the largest collection of privately owned assault weapons :D |
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vertical_reality
Oct 19, 2004, 3:43 PM
Post #168 of 173
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In reply to: that's how Brandon Lee was killed!
Yeah, wasn't there a bullet lodged in the barrel and when the blank went off it launched the bullet?
Tgreene, do you think any of those FALSE ones should be true?
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tgreene
Oct 19, 2004, 7:38 PM
Post #169 of 173
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In reply to: Yeah, wasn't there a bullet lodged in the barrel and when the blank went off it launched the bullet? Tgreene, do you think any of those FALSE ones should be true?
Personal Manufacturing:
1) The law requires a set of standards for production firearms, so that they are constructed of proper materials that will neither "cook-off" a round in the chamber due to excessive heat transfer, nor blow up in your face when you shoot it. They are also required to pass stringent drop tests. Unfortunately, if you fabricate one on a bench top at home, these standards do not apply.
2) No number of background checks can ever keep a restricted individual from manufacturing his own firearms, and thus the 'alert' system is rendered useless.
3) I do believe that serial numbers should be required by law, to assist in the trail of firearms that are used for criminal purposes.
Movie Industry Rentals:
1) The individuals actually using the firearms which are rented/leased for specific scenes, are rarely if ever properly trained about safe weapons handling, and therefore have no reason ever touching them in the first place! Obviously in the case of Brandon Lee, somebody obviously didn't know enough to do a routine bore check!
2) The same people that are making millions by operating them in a careless manner on film, are often times the most outspoken actor/activists that would stop at nothing to rid the common man of the very firearms they make a living by using!
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vertical_reality
Oct 19, 2004, 7:43 PM
Post #170 of 173
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I thought only the second should be false. Proper record keeping should be a high priority.
Why don't you think the others should be true?
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tgreene
Oct 19, 2004, 8:02 PM
Post #171 of 173
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In reply to: I thought only the second should be false. Proper record keeping should be a high priority. Why don't you think the others should be true?
The way a trace works is detailed below:[*:adc62c17cd]When the police recover a firearm, they first do a "hot sheet" trace to see if it was stolen.
[*:adc62c17cd] Next, they'll contact the manufacturer, and provide the serial number.
[*:adc62c17cd] The manufacturer will lookup that number, and provide information as to what dealer it was originally shipped to, as well as the ship date.
[*:adc62c17cd] The dealer will be contacted, and asked to provide the same data as the manufacturer, if shipped on to another dealer, or the transferees info if sold to an individual.
[*:adc62c17cd] Individual will be contacted and asked about said firearm.
[*:adc62c17cd] If the individual sold, traded, or gave it away via a private transfer, then he is required by law to keep a record of said transfer for a minimum period of 5 years. (This info is name, addy, DL# or SOC#, firearm serial number)
[*:adc62c17cd] The chain continues until it reaches the point in which the police, FBI or ATF started... with the physical firearm.
The way the system is designed, it actually works incredibly well and in an expedient manner with investigations, by placing the responsibility in the hands of manufacturers/distributors/dealers and individual owners. This not only removes jurisdictional issues, but eliminates a huge financial burden that would otherwise be the responsibility of both state and federal governments.
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vertical_reality
Oct 19, 2004, 8:04 PM
Post #172 of 173
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Cool, thanks for the explaination.
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tgreene
Oct 19, 2004, 8:12 PM
Post #173 of 173
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In reply to: Cool, thanks for the explaination.
FWIW: This is the only new law out of 20,000 that already exist, that I would add, because it does close a serious hole that doesn't need to exist. I also believe that folks should be allowed to manufacture their own firearms, but special forms should be required, along with the issuance of a .GOV generated serial number that must be stamped at time of manufacture, as with all other firearms.
* Hopefully you can see that I'm anything -but- an unreasonable firearms owner. Having been a machinegun dealer, I know the laws inside and out, including those of most states and major cities around the country. I know which laws are nothing more than bullshit "feel-good" laws (such as banning AW's), and where better restriction and enforcement needs to be directed, as well as much better training and education in specific sectors of the industry (ie: Hollywood).
Each of the TRUE~FALSE questions I posed, are really only known by industry insiders. We're also the ones who have to deal with this stuff everyday, and therefore tend to have a superior understanding of the general overview of weapons as a whole. We also have the right to refuse sale to anyone, at anytime, for any reason, and this is something that I have done on a number of occassions when I felt the buyer would pass the background check, yet had ill intents... :?
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