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kalcario


Dec 8, 2004, 4:17 PM
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*But I'm curious as to what's been the percentage mix between trad and sport for you as you've gotten better? Personally it doesn't surprise me that top sport climbers end up doing trad or deep water eventually just for the sense of risk and self-reliance for a change... *

Me? Trad/big walls from '74 to '88, sport after that with some trad guiding and "date climbing" thrown in. Don't really see too much "risk or self-reliance" in free soloing 7 or 8 bodylengths above deep water, unless, of course you can't swim...plus I was always more reliant on the gear when trad climbing in Yosemite, and I feel more self-reliant now when sport climbing. On trad in Yosemite you know when you leave the ground that you practically never have to run it out, because there's almost always a good placement in your face. I'm more haired doing actual hard moves above a bolt on a sport route than I ever was on Astroman or the Rostrum, basically you never have to actually "go for it" on those routes like you do on sport because of the Gear-Anywhere-You-Want Factor.

*Our routes by and large weren't like delicate, near static face climbs, or steadily motoring (or in my case thrutching) cracks - they are full on heading upside down, swinging, dyno-monkey contraptions loaded with heel/toe hooking, kneebar no-hands rests, and our general objective was to spend as much time with our feet above our heads as humanly possible.*

Where, how hard, what gear?


healyje


Dec 8, 2004, 5:17 PM
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In reply to:
*But I'm curious as to what's been the percentage mix between trad and sport for you as you've gotten better? Personally it doesn't surprise me that top sport climbers end up doing trad or deep water eventually just for the sense of risk and self-reliance for a change... *

Me? Trad/big walls from '74 to '88, sport after that with some trad guiding and "date climbing" thrown in. Don't really see too much "risk or self-reliance" in free soloing 7 or 8 bodylengths above deep water, unless, of course you can't swim...plus I was always more reliant on the gear when trad climbing in Yosemite, and I feel more self-reliant now when sport climbing. On trad in Yosemite you know when you leave the ground that you practically never have to run it out, because there's almost always a good placement in your face. I'm more haired doing actual hard moves above a bolt on a sport route than I ever was on Astroman or the Rostrum, basically you never have to actually "go for it" on those routes like you do on sport because of the Gear-Anywhere-You-Want Factor.

I see, yeah, the valley is all about cracks that's for sure. If that is your background than I bet sport/face/bolts does seem like a big difference. As for the deep water - that's more about self-reliance than risk; freeing aid routes is where I was more referring to risk.

In reply to:
*Our routes by and large weren't like delicate, near static face climbs, or steadily motoring (or in my case thrutching) cracks - they are full on heading upside down, swinging, dyno-monkey contraptions loaded with heel/toe hooking, kneebar no-hands rests, and our general objective was to spend as much time with our feet above our heads as humanly possible.*

Where, how hard, what gear?

Hint: Climbing Magizine - March/April 1978...
Rock 'n Road - pg. 141

I don't have a scanner or I'd scan a couple of pics in...

era: '74-'76
routes: 5.10 - 5.13
gear: cliff/climb dependent - tope rope / death fall top rope (one broken back) / trad
[no harnesses, barefoot or EB's, no chalk]


kalcario


Dec 8, 2004, 5:35 PM
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*Hint: Climbing Magizine - March/April 1978...
Rock 'n Road - pg. 141

I don't have a scanner or I'd scan a couple of pics in...

era: '74-'76
routes: 5.10 - 5.13
gear: cliff/climb dependent - tope rope / death fall top rope (one broken back) / trad
[no harnesses, barefoot or EB's, no chalk]*

Where, what gear?

Yes I know we had EB's and no harnesses back then...what is a "death fall top rope"?


healyje


Dec 8, 2004, 6:00 PM
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Yes I know we had EB's and no harnesses back then...what is a "death fall top rope"?

Ah, a top rope for a roof on a cliff so overhung that the top rope doesn't fully engage until after the crux or that swings you 30-50 feet or so to the mid-point before entering the trees. We took repeated 23 foot horizontal ground falls at the crux on one roof where the rope didn't engage fully until you were past the crux to the lip; and one guy broke his back on a tree on another (he made it out through the trees ok, but the one we always worried about got him on the way back in...). And we also soloed one called "Leaves of the Failing Faith" by piling up a 10' high row of leaves under the roof because it was immediately on the shoulder of a busy park road and you'd be a grill ornament on a top rope...


kalcario


Dec 8, 2004, 6:14 PM
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I give up


healyje


Dec 8, 2004, 6:23 PM
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If you're going to give up would you sell any Crack'N Ups and LoweBalls you still have...?


dingus


Dec 9, 2004, 8:07 AM
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Dingus,

I think the whole of our discussion comes down to two essential points for me:

Cheers man. Happy holidays. Glad you found your way back into the game btw. Sounds like you're having a blast.

DMT


healyje


Dec 9, 2004, 9:46 AM
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Dingus,

Same to you! Always a pleasure.

Yes, I've been in and out of it a bunch of times over the 30 years compared to my partner who never stopped. I think this time has been particularly active and satisfying because last year I didn't get to windsurf or climb or anything else - I was commuting by train between PDX and SEA doing 80-100 hour weeks. Then on weekends I was coming home on a remodel of the kitchen and living room that we took down to the studs and rebuilt back up with new plumbing / hvac / elec / windows / etc. We basically had no life last year. With the work completed this year the three of us have just been liberated to have a life and play again. Nothing like endless grueling work to make climbing seem like a whole new experience.

At 52 there might also be a tinge of "last harrah" in the mix, but then I met and climbed with guys older than me this year (like your friend) and saw the blurb on the 82 year old guy leading 5.10 in the valley so now I'm thinking maybe I'm being a wuss and need to get on a march to get all my old chops back.

I am at the point of deciding if I want to break back into the 5.12 zone or not and if I decide that in the coming year how I do it will depend on how much time I have available, who knows, if time is short I may have to try the dogging approach to training in the gym that has obviously worked for kalcario and others. Hey, maybe even try bouldering (egads). But I'll probably still climb ground up trad outside. But maybe then, as kalcario suggests, 5.11 and up trad would be less demanding. There is some possibility that I'll be in Mexico early next year and if so I might have to experiment some with the idea at Potrero given I understand it's all sport.

Happy Holidays and a Vertical New Year to you and everyone else here...

Joseph


kristibobclimbs


Feb 3, 2005, 10:34 PM
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Subtle.....I think I love you!I would have to agree,any type of climbing rocks and the only people who suck are those that DON'T climb.I have tried sport,trad and bouldering and I love them all,I definitely go through phases of preference towards one in particular,but i will always be active in all three.Respect your fellow climber!Seriously now people live and let live,no snobs allowed!

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