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kriso9tails


Sep 2, 2001, 10:26 PM
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I'm interested in photography, and I'd like to know what others think makes for a great photograph, mind you I am limited to black & white, so please don't say brilliant colour.

I've been checking the photo section frequently, and I've also been keeping track of the raitngs on them, and I must say I am often surprised, so perhaps I can get some insight, so that maybe I can start submitting some quality pictures someday.


kagunkie


Sep 2, 2001, 10:28 PM
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To me a good climbing photo is one that makes you want to climb the pictured route or afraid to try.


marcsv


Sep 3, 2001, 12:06 AM
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no colour huh, my type of photo.

the first thing you should do or consider is how dramatic you want your shot to be, next the type of camera that you're using. for creative control i use a fully manual camera. the best technique i can share with you is the depth of field. simply put aperture priority. you set your f stop at the smallest opening (i set mine at f22) then adjust your shutter speed accordingly.

this technique will produce a photo with defined distances. i can't really put into word how the photo will look like, but trust me on this one, this is one of the fave techniques of the photographers from national geographics.

another are the filters that you can use, cokin manufactures filters that would enhance the artistic potential of the photoographer. these filters although most are colored are beign used to enhance the subject. for example if you use an orange filter for b/w film for an indoor shot you'll get a low contrasting photo. basically you'll have to experiment with filter combinations to get the desired results.

lastly dont forget your film, i only use kodak (tri x or t max, all asa 400)and i develop and print them my self.

if you plan to take this up as another hobby to compliment climbing, i would suggest you invest on the camera (i would suggest a nikon f5, if you want you could get the new line, im not sure if those are hybrid cameras). and plus if your photos are good enough, you could sell them to magazines like time or national geographics, and if they like your work they could even hire you as a photo correspondent (don't get your hopes up the waiting periond for national geographics and time coul take months or even years).

[ This Message was edited by: marcsv on 2001-09-03 03:32 ]


wandt


Sep 3, 2001, 2:03 AM
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Definately Kodak! Definately 400asa!
I also use a full-manual camera and it is very good for depth of field stuff. Unfortunately, it can also result in poor photos if you let someone else use it. "Yes, my bf/gf/dad/friend has one of those cameras" usually equals "I don't want a photo lesson. I'll just point, click and hope for the best." If you want good photos in general, go for it. If you want good photos of yourself, get a point and click camera.
Experiment with composition. Where your horizon is, where your subject is, how big, etc. etc. Horizon halfway up, subject smack-dab in the middle is a very boring picture. Spend some $ on film, go out and experiment away!!


bart


Sep 3, 2001, 3:30 AM
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For rockclimbing photos, I like to see bright photos (from not too far) and the climber mustn't be standing on a good hold: he has to be in action or resting in some weird position. If you would start taking color pictures: the best ones are those with rocks in one color (most likely yellow or white) and a blue sky.


marcsv


Sep 3, 2001, 3:34 AM
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another reason why you should get slr (single lense reflex) cameras, is that you could change the lenses you could be 50 yards away and yet take a clear and crisp photo of the face of a subject.


fiend


Sep 3, 2001, 8:14 AM
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Don't you guys think 400 is a little fast? Unless you're shooting inside or in really low light, you should probably be using 100, or possibly 200.
Unless you're going for grainy, which I happen to like


marcsv


Sep 3, 2001, 7:48 PM
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its good to have a fast film, esp. when you are using the aperture priority method. imagine on a cloudy day (when light is diffused)your f stop could be set at 22 and to compensate, your shutter speed could be set to as slow as a second. of course i am speaking empirically. you could have different results.


wandt


Sep 3, 2001, 9:43 PM
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Not to mention that if the crag is not facing the sun, a fierce shadow can be cast. 400 is also the best for action shots. 100 will get you nice blur. 400 will get you a nice dyno.


krillen


Sep 5, 2001, 10:35 PM
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Fiend: You can take a great detailed shot and make it grainy using your comp, but you can't do the inverse. So why not have the best of both worlds?


kriso9tails


Sep 12, 2001, 9:01 PM
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100 has alot of useful purposes, especially 'blur,' which when properly controlled is a great effect. 400 is good because it is 'middle of the road' and versitile allowing for allowences in style, but many styles will eventually have more specialized needs. It's all preference.

I have my first half decent pic, and I'm posting it tomorrow or on Friday when I make a good copy. We'll see how it stacks up to your various preferences.


Partner rrrADAM


Oct 14, 2001, 10:41 PM
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I like the B&W, but I don't think the shot is very dynamic, not enough action or enthusiasm shown. It also looks far less than vertical, maybe the angle. Try setting up a rap to the side, so you can get the best angles.

A friend takes awsome shots this way, and even puts together slide shows at various venues.

I really do like the B&W though.


rrrADAM


kriso9tails


Oct 15, 2001, 5:22 AM
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fair enough


saltspringer


Nov 13, 2001, 12:37 AM
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Hmmm, I have to take exception to the f 22 suggestion...a smaller aperture (ie 5.6 or 4) gives you a shallow depth of field which makes your subject stand out against the background (see the Mighty Tighty Whitey shot in the Salt Spring Island section, British Columbia)and is what distinguishes the "killer" shots in Nat'l Geo of wildlife, Etc...Traditionally, shallow DOF is used in sports & portraiture to emphasize the subject whereas a deep DOF is used in landscapes to draw the viewer in to the picture as a whole (see Peter Mede on BIO, Salt Spring as well for an example of a deep DOF picture).
As for the issue of film types for B&W, TMAX 400 is an excellent film with incredible grain thanks to the t-grain technology: I work with this film up to 16x20 on fibre-based paper emulsions and can still barely distinguish the grain: at 8x10 or smaller, it's negligible.
As for what makes a great shot...when it comes to the shots on this site in particular, it's mostly to do with the emotional connection that people have with what they are seeing: an out-of-focus, under/over exposed shot will be forgiven if it's depicting a cool move or climb but in the publishing world, pictures have to be absolutely perfect: no dust, no distractions and perfect exposure. I notice that Climbing tends to encourage pictures from a bird's eye view while R & Ice tends to go with more creative shots that say alot about the area & mood as well as the climb.
One more thing I'd like to add: no need for a camera as fancy as a Nikon F5: I've been using the F3 for years (fully manual...) and am still getting ALL of my B&W shots with it...for colour I use an F90x simply because it allows me to expose in 1/3 stop increments for the shutter speed critical for proper exposure with slide films. Buy a less expensive Nikon camera body & spend the money you save on fast Nikkor prime lenses (zooms cost more and tend to be very slow)like a 200mm for close-up action.
I hope that people keep submitting great shots to this site so that we can all continue to be inspired,
that's all for now folks,
Mike

[ This Message was edited by: saltspringer on 2001-11-13 01:02 ]

[ This Message was edited by: saltspringer on 2001-11-13 01:26 ]


andy_lemon


Nov 13, 2001, 1:54 AM
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The best way to learn is to practice. Go to the crags and instead of climbing, just shoot pictures all day. Develope them and see which ones you like. Try getting high angle shots because I think those are most dramatic. They show how high the climber is whether he be bouldering or climbing, also it shows his face rather than his butt

Assuming you are limited to black and white because you are in photography class right? Well if that is the case then you shouldn't have any trouble catching on to the whole f-stop/shutter speed consepts. When shooting climbing, use slow shutter speeds. Nothing more than 1/125. Climbing is a slow sport and with black and white or color I love to show action. I usually use 1/30 of a second or 1/60 of a second. Due to lack of light and my lense I'm usually stuck with F4 but this weekend I had plenty of exposure to shoot and finally got to set my f-stop to f11! WOOO HOOO, what a difference getting out of the tree line can make. lol

Anyhow, good luck. good wishes cause it is costly.


skupdogg


Nov 13, 2001, 1:56 AM
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one of the most important aspects of a photo is composition. i usually try to get the climber positioned off-center, and when possible, climbing into the photograph. if the climber is, for instance, at the top frame, the motion of the climber moves your eye out of the photo and makes it less interesting. same thing with the climber being smack in the middle of the photo, it leads the eye nowhere. however, sometimes, in order to get enough sky, or a neat rock formation, or a necessary part of the route in the photo, it's necessary to do this, which is ok because these things will make up for the position of the climber.


socialclimber


Nov 28, 2001, 2:27 AM
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A good pic is one that tells it's own story, cause you can't always bee there to explain to whoever is looking at it that "It does look kinda boring but just a split second after I hit the button the climber took a fall! You shoulda seen it!" Chances are you are your own worst critic so if you like it then others will too. You can try this little excersize to find what you like and why: When we look at pix we usually know straight away if we like it or not, even if we don't know why. So any time you look at a pic, ask yourself why you like it or dont like it. After a while you may see a pattern emerging, ie, all the pix you like have a squeezed DoF or are all taken from an extreme angle. Maybe they are all B&W or all colour.
B&W film is ideal for climbing pix and outdoors in general. Don't think colour, think texture, contrast, picture grain.
You probably know this already but if the subject is close enough to see their eyes, focus on the eyes.
Something else you might find usful is to get in the habit of recording some info about your pix. I have used a hard cover notebook to record when, where, what with, film type, camera set up and even the light conditions for maybe 90% of all the pix I have ever shot. ie: 28/11/01 film 1
Castle rock
high cloud
joe Bloggs,
2nd pitch of Hangman,5.8
FM2, Nikkor 28mm lens
f2.8@500th, fuji 400

Basically, put anything that you might want to refer back to. Some of this info goes onto the back of the enlarged pic. If you are shooting lots of film, scratch a number into the film canister with a coin. Try roman numerals(I, II, III, IV, V). And don't forget to put on clean undies every day and brush your teeth before bed and....

[ This Message was edited by: socialclimber on 2001-11-28 02:59 ]


pushfurther


Nov 28, 2001, 3:49 AM
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i don't know if this waas already said, but try to follow the rule of thirds..this is quoted from jestyr on the bouldering forum..

On 2001-11-21 15:56, Jestyr wrote:
Ok, here is a little bit of help to explain the golden rectangle that has been mentioned here. (As I understand it, it *has* been a while).

The golden rectangle is a concept to explain the perfect relationship between two rectangles. It is used all the time without people realizing it, and it lends balance to what we see visually.

A good aproximation of the golden rectangle is the rule of thirds. What the rule of thirds basically says is that on a visual plane, if you draw intersecting lines at 1/3 intervals the best place for action to take place is where those lines intersect. Below is a little grey box with white lines to show what I mean.

http://www.innovation-design.com/forum/golden1.jpg

That is why you will almost never see a movie where you see the actors face in a closeup in the direct middle of the screen. Take a look through a "good" magazine and look at the ads. The points of interest are at these intersecting points.

And here is an example from the top row of climbing magazines online gallery. Notice how the climber (focal point) almost perfectly lines up with the top-right intersection. Granted this is not always the case, but it is usually a good rule of thumb.

http://www.innovation-design.com/forum/golden2.jpg

This is a visual mechanism of how math impacts us. I hope that helped a little.



ironmask


Nov 28, 2001, 8:20 AM
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In other words, The rule of thirds. Also look for intresting shapes that are formed. triangles, circles, repeating and\or parallel lines. I also think that good contrast is important. I like to look for photos that have a feel as well as a look.


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