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laurent
Jun 21, 2002, 10:11 AM
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Anyone who knows how to make a directional figure of 8 knot ?
PS: The only thing I know about it is that it looks like the figure of 8 but the two strands of rope go in opposite direction; something like this:
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pulnerth
Jun 21, 2002, 11:07 AM
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I like to think that I know a bit about knots, but I have to say I’m not sure what you’re talking about… Can you elaborate a little bit more; maybe I could be of some help.
Keep on,
Pulnerth
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rico
Jun 21, 2002, 11:54 AM
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Just typ in what you're looking for in a search engine...should be somewhere
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hunter
Jun 21, 2002, 11:58 AM
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It's also known as an Inline figure 8. Can't describe how to tie it though. I'll see if I can locate a link.
Hunter
Ah, a link http://www.rescue70.org/roperes.htm
Unsolicited comment: I prefer the butterfly knot unless the application calls for the knot to run through a constriction of some sort.
[ This Message was edited by: hunter on 2002-06-21 05:05 ]
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pulnerth
Jun 21, 2002, 1:04 PM
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Hunter,
Awesome, you cleared it up for me, I’m sure Laurent shouldn’t have any trouble with that. And I would have to say a butterfly or Sheepshank would be a more preferred knot.
Keep on,
Pulnerth
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laurent
Jun 21, 2002, 1:52 PM
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Thanks Hunter & Pulnerth,
When you see it, it looks easy indeed.
Could you tell me why you think a butterfly or sheepshank would be better (note that I don't know any of these 2 knots)?
The reason why I am asking is because I have seen people using the directional figure 8
as a tie in point for belaying a second when you are using the rope for setting up the belay. Do you see what I mean?
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loosaboy
Jun 21, 2002, 2:40 PM
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Laurent:
Do you mean using the rope to tie yourself into the anchor when belaying a second?
'The reason why I am asking is because I have seen people using the directional figure 8
as a tie in point for belaying a second when you are using the rope for setting up the belay. Do you see what I mean?'
If this is what you are inquirying about, you can just use a clove hitch. Although I am not sure if this is what you meant?
PIECE
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coach
Jun 21, 2002, 3:23 PM
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Laurent,
As Loosaboy mentioned the clove hitch might be the better solution as you can easily adjust the length of your tie-in without unclipping from the anchor. The directional figure 8 will work but if you wish to adjust the length of the tie-in it is more difficult without unclipping.
Climb On
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hunter
Jun 21, 2002, 3:31 PM
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Laurent,
For midline knots in general, I prefer multi-load, multi-directional knots unless there is a need for a directional. Then there's the fact that I can tie a butterfly without thinking about it and the inline 8 always throws me for a moment when I go to tie it.
I don't quite grasp the details of the application you refer to, perhaps the clove hitch that loosaboy mentioned would be a good alternative (handy, fast, easy to adjust) But without a clear understanding of the set-up I couldn't say one way or the other.
Hunter
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pelliott
Jun 21, 2002, 3:55 PM
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Here is how you tie it.
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laurent
Jun 24, 2002, 2:48 PM
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Hi,
Here is an example of scenario that explains what I meant:
- suppose you rig the belay with e.g. a cordelette.
- you might be tied to the cordelette through a locking biner using a clove hitch
- you then want to belay your second but instead of belaying him/her through the locking biner, you might want to extend the belay point a bit lower and belay directly from a grigri & locking biner tied to the rope using a directional figure 8 (the knot looks downward which is why I think this is better than a butterfly which looks perpendicular to the rope).
Drawing:
Anchor1.....Anchor2
.\........../
..\......../
...\....../
....\..../
.....\../
...Locking biner
.....|.....|
.....|.....|
.....|...Directional figure 8 knot
.Harness...|
.........Locking Biner
...........|
.........Grigri
PS: A very stupid way of avoiding white spaces, but I don't know any other.
[ This Message was edited by: laurent on 2002-06-24 08:01 ]
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hunter
Jun 24, 2002, 3:41 PM
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Looks like the set-up you oulined would be ok. The inline 8 would look a lot neater than a butterfly
My only hesitation here would be the added grief of tying/untying the 8 versus using a doubled sling with a locker to extend the anchor for the belay if the situation called for a lower belay point.
BUT! I'm not a lead climber and don't have the experiance needed to make this call. It will be interesting to see what others with more knowledge of the subject have to say.
Hunter
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jt512
Jun 24, 2002, 4:05 PM
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Ok, so you're asking about belaying off a directional fig 8, not as a tie-in knot. Yes, I have done that. It is an ideal knot for the purpose. One of the popular climbing books shows how to rig a belay on a 2-bolt anchor using just the rope. The anchor is fashioned from a bowline and the belay device is clipped to a directional fig-8. It is an elegant little setup, though I doubt I could rig it at night in a thunderstorm with stage I hypothermia.
-Jay
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laurent
Jun 25, 2002, 11:35 AM
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You're right jt512.
I meant belay off the directional figure 8 not a tie-in knot. I am not a native english speaker and my "climbing english" is not that good. That's why drawings are always better.
Note that I prefer not to climb at night under thumderstorm & with hypothermia, but if I had, I would probably think about something else than the directional figure 8!
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murf
Jun 25, 2002, 3:35 PM
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The inline figure 8 more appropriate than the butterfly knot for belay use. My understanding is that it has been found that the butterfly knot requires tension from both sides to remain stable. For a three man rope team, for instance, the butterfly knot is applicable.
A second reason to use the inline figure 8 rather a figure 8 on a bight is that it is stronger than the 8 on a bight. This is due to the fact that the knot is "inline" and rope makes no turns entering one side of the knot.
Murf
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