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brandon_loves_2fly
Feb 27, 2005, 4:46 PM
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Im still a little unfamiliar on how to rate a climb. Can anyone help me out. For example what constitutes a 5.10? what's the difference between a 5.12a and a 5.12b. How to i rate a climb, period? thanks
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jt512
Feb 27, 2005, 6:05 PM
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In reply to: Im still a little unfamiliar on how to rate a climb. Can anyone help me out. For example what constitutes a 5.10? what's the difference between a 5.12a and a 5.12b. How to i rate a climb, period? thanks
Ratings are devised such that the ratio of two ratings is proportional to the ratio of the odds of success that a climber of a particular onsight level would have climbing routes at those grades. The following formula is the one used by most first ascentionists. I believe it was originally used by Largo at Tahquitz in the '70s and later refined by Bridwell.
Let:
i = 1 to n index n climbers
j = 0 to m index m YDS ratings
Yij = 1 if the attempt by the ith climber on the jth rated route is a success, or 0 if it is a failure
X1i = the climber's on-sight level at the time of the attempt
X2j = the route's rating, rescaled in some sensible way
P(Yij) = probability of success of Yij
Then:
P(Yij)/[1-P(Yij)] = exp(a + b1*X1i + b2*X2j + b3*Xli*X2j)
-Jay
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cintune
Feb 27, 2005, 6:49 PM
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:wtf:
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glyrocks
Feb 27, 2005, 7:03 PM
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:shock:
I'm sure that is the accepted standard, long ago established as anyone should know, but the climbs I've rated (ice climbs, if that matters to you), I just climbed, and said, feels like a WI4. I ask the guy who seconds, and if he agrees, it sticks. If someone who knows better than has some input, I consider it and adjust as needed. But, my FAs were done in relatively esoteric places where it didn't really matter what the rating was.
I would never question Jay, but I would say rather than a formula, use your own experience in the area If you don't have any, then climb a lot more and you'll figure it out on your own. If you've put up a new route, have someone with more experience at rating climb it and see what they think. If you don't know how hard a 5.10 is, climb easier stuff until you work your up.
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sed
Feb 27, 2005, 7:26 PM
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JT, You are either insane or hilarious, though it's possible to be both.
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cintune
Feb 27, 2005, 7:38 PM
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Still, a little, er, exegesis, might be helpful. Rating FAs is clearly not for the inexperienced or the mathematically challenged, but how many of those variables are really hard objective quantities? Seems like there's still a lot of subjectivity involved. Like, "rescaled in some sensible way," what does that mean? I mean, it's either a strictly mathematical process or it's not, and so wouldn't a rating intuitively assigned by a well-seasoned climber pretty much amount to the same thing?
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anykineclimb
Feb 27, 2005, 8:20 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Im still a little unfamiliar on how to rate a climb. Can anyone help me out. For example what constitutes a 5.10? what's the difference between a 5.12a and a 5.12b. How to i rate a climb, period? thanks Ratings are devised such that the ratio of two ratings is proportional to the ratio of the odds of success that a climber of a particular onsight level would have climbing routes at those grades. The following formula is the one used by most first ascentionists. I believe it was originally used by Largo at Tahquitz in the '70s and later refined by Bridwell. Let: i = 1 to n index n climbers j = 0 to m index m YDS ratings Yij = 1 if the attempt by the ith climber on the jth rated route is a success, or 0 if it is a failure X1i = the climber's on-sight level at the time of the attempt X2j = the route's rating, rescaled in some sensible way P(Yij) = probability of success of Yij Then: P(Yij)/[1-P(Yij)] = exp(a + b1*X1i + b2*X2j + b3*Xli*X2j) -Jay
Thank you, Dr. Science
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j2dat
Feb 27, 2005, 8:44 PM
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Thank you, frylock... :wink:
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esallen
Feb 27, 2005, 8:52 PM
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A 5.10 climb would be about 10 feet high, and a 5.12, 12 feet high, etc. A 5.12b would be about 12 feet 4 inches I think.
Eric
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verticalcrag
Feb 27, 2005, 8:53 PM
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That formula is great.....................................
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112
Feb 27, 2005, 8:55 PM
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Great now I have to clean snot off my computer, thanks Jay
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abraxas
Feb 27, 2005, 8:57 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Im still a little unfamiliar on how to rate a climb. Can anyone help me out. For example what constitutes a 5.10? what's the difference between a 5.12a and a 5.12b. How to i rate a climb, period? thanks Ratings are devised such that the ratio of two ratings is proportional to the ratio of the odds of success that a climber of a particular onsight level would have climbing routes at those grades. The following formula is the one used by most first ascentionists. I believe it was originally used by Largo at Tahquitz in the '70s and later refined by Bridwell. Let: i = 1 to n index n climbers j = 0 to m index m YDS ratings Yij = 1 if the attempt by the ith climber on the jth rated route is a success, or 0 if it is a failure X1i = the climber's on-sight level at the time of the attempt X2j = the route's rating, rescaled in some sensible way P(Yij) = probability of success of Yij Then: P(Yij)/[1-P(Yij)] = exp(a + b1*X1i + b2*X2j + b3*Xli*X2j) -Jay
Aren't you basically saying that you don't know either?
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tenn_dawg
Feb 27, 2005, 9:28 PM
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Fuck it. Just rate it a 5.9+ and let the spraylords figure the rest out.
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overlord
Feb 28, 2005, 6:30 AM
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iyou basicly compare it to other routes youve climbed and then tell the world how hard you think the route is.
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jt512
Feb 28, 2005, 9:46 AM
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In reply to: Like, "rescaled in some sensible way," what does that mean?
It just means you have to make the Yosemite "Decimal" ratings sensible real numbers. Usually, this is done by dropping the 5th class prefix, and changing the letter subgrade to a decimal. For instance, 5.12d becomes 12.75, 5.13b becomes 13.5, etc.
-Jay
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lucas_timmer
Feb 28, 2005, 10:17 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Im still a little unfamiliar on how to rate a climb. Can anyone help me out. For example what constitutes a 5.10? what's the difference between a 5.12a and a 5.12b. How to i rate a climb, period? thanks Ratings are devised such that the ratio of two ratings is proportional to the ratio of the odds of success that a climber of a particular onsight level would have climbing routes at those grades. The following formula is the one used by most first ascentionists. I believe it was originally used by Largo at Tahquitz in the '70s and later refined by Bridwell. Let: i = 1 to n index n climbers j = 0 to m index m YDS ratings Yij = 1 if the attempt by the ith climber on the jth rated route is a success, or 0 if it is a failure X1i = the climber's on-sight level at the time of the attempt X2j = the route's rating, rescaled in some sensible way P(Yij) = probability of success of Yij Then: P(Yij)/[1-P(Yij)] = exp(a + b1*X1i + b2*X2j + b3*Xli*X2j) -Jay |
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piton
Feb 28, 2005, 10:30 AM
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if it feel like a 5.10 then it's most likely a 5.7. so if it feels like 5.12 then you should read between the lines and give it a 5.9 rating.
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fire_eyes
Feb 28, 2005, 10:33 AM
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In reply to: A 5.10 climb would be about 10 feet high, and a 5.12, 12 feet high, etc. A 5.12b would be about 12 feet 4 inches I think. Eric
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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hosh
Feb 28, 2005, 11:10 AM
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Is it just me or has any one else noticed that 5.12 is actually a lower number than 5.3? In all reality, 5.9 is a higher number than 5.10... Just a thought. How do you rate a climb? Climb it then ask some one else to rate it. I rate things at the gym I climb at all the time and then an army of other climbers end up changing my rating. If you don't know how to rate a climb, then it's best to let some one else rate it until you don't have to ask that quesition. As it is, I actually know how to rate a climb (in theory) and people still don't agree with my ratings. I guess the improtant thing is to be uniform in your ratings.
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112
Mar 5, 2005, 10:20 PM
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We should really be calling sub 5.10 climbs as:
5.00, 5.01, ...,5.09
or better yet we should use hexidecimal.
5.12 - 5.C :lol:
Ken
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reach
Mar 5, 2005, 11:05 PM
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To me, they are all 5.fun
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climbsomething
Mar 5, 2005, 11:13 PM
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In reply to: JT, You are either insane or hilarious, though it's possible to be both. |
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viciado
Mar 6, 2005, 6:07 AM
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I just plugged in the numbers and found out that I have been on sighting 5.13! Rad Dude!
Thanks jt512! By the way, "subtle" in "ask the NoOb" has developed another important formula for bouldering:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...sc&topic_view=&start
In reply to: Modifiers to V-Grade of a Problem: Less than 3 pieces of LogoWear (tm) +1 No beanie +2 Ugly beanie +0.5 Sent using good climber beta -0.5 Sent using beta from annoying gumb +1 Sent using Ask The NOOB beta +3 Sent using bad shoes +0.5 Sent using no shoes +1.5 Sent using snow shoes +5 Problem is in a gym -0.5 Problem is in not in a gym...on...a rock? +0.5 Sent after 1 Red Bull -0.5 Sent after 5 Red Bulls -3 Sent after giant philly cheesesteak +1.5 Sent during giant philly cheesesteak +3 Sent in presence of hot member of opposite sex +1 Downclimbed +0.5 Campused +1 Use of needless profanity -1 Use of deserved profanity +1 Good spotters -1 Sleeping/passed out spotters +1 Your dog is the spotter +0.5 |
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cintune
Mar 6, 2005, 7:28 AM
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In reply to: Só porque não tenha um peixinho no meu carro não quer dizer que não tenha as minhas convicções.
More proof that computer translators are worthless for anything but surreal entertainment. This must mean something more than "Because it does not only have one peixinho in my car does not want to say that it does not have my certainties." :? Thank you, http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr.
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montaniero
Mar 6, 2005, 7:50 AM
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In reply to: Is it just me or has any one else noticed that 5.12 is actually a lower number than 5.3? In all reality, 5.9 is a higher number than 5.10... Just a thought.
Hmmm.....I smell a conspiracy here. :shock:
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