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blindslap
Jun 28, 2002, 6:27 PM
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i always hear that if you clip a fixed piece of pro, excluding bolts, i'm talking about fixed nuts, pitons, etc. that you should always back it up. whay even bother to clip it, if you can place a bomber piece close to it.
I could see clipping a piton if your really pumped and need something quick to keep you from smacking that ledge. but in normal situations why don't you skip the potentually (sp) dangerous piece and just place one of your own?
hope you can understand this.
joe
[ This Message was edited by: blindslap on 2002-06-28 11:29 ]
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radistrad
Jun 28, 2002, 6:54 PM
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well, often times the fixed piece is the only thing that will fit in the area and the next piece is not just two feet higher, my assumption of backing up is to get in your own pro ASAP. You dont want to run it out 20' after clipping that 30yr old piton, back it up when ya can then go for that run out!
Some belays may have some janky bolts, pins etc. and if it is possible then you should place your own gear to supplement the belay.
Like you said, why clip it in the first palce if there is other good gear near? Your right, there is no reason to clip it in the first place if that is the case.
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rocknpowda
Jun 28, 2002, 7:15 PM
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I think you'll notice on some classic climbs around SLC that the manky fixed pins have been pulled so it is not even an issue. The only ones getting pulled are where there is obviously bomber pro nearby. There are still routes-alot in BCC-that have pins in cracks to protect a face climb, most of which seem pretty bomber.
I think that backing up a piece of gear that someone couldn't retrieve is a good idea-chances are good that you won't be able to quickly clean the piece on lead and you don't know how much the last person reefed on the piece to get it out and maybe moved it out of its optimal placement. Put a piece in next to it and have your cleaner try to get it out. If you do get it, I'd put it on your aid rack if it isn't totally mangled.
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punk
Jun 28, 2002, 8:42 PM
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Well why bother
The fix piece cannot be trusted since YOU didn’t placed it you suppose to be your own master...(at least on the rock...)
Why clipping it? …b/c it’s a number game the more contacts points on the rock the better (don’t forget to equalize and do some stopper knot so it wont shock load)
BOLTS/PINS SHOULD NOT RELAY ON BLINDLY inspect them thoroughly before trusting them with your life (or some one else's) they had being known to pull out on climbers every so often
as they say to the waterboy "You can do it"
hope it helped
climb safe
[ This Message was edited by: punk on 2002-06-28 16:43 ]
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blindslap
Jun 28, 2002, 10:14 PM
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thanks a lot, that really cleared up my question.
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sparky
Jun 29, 2002, 11:05 PM
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you can't always place a bomber under it, plus the more pieces you have in as backup the safer it is
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apollodorus
Jun 30, 2002, 2:08 AM
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The answer to this forum is: it depends on the situation. Almost nobody "backs up" the fixed mank on the Great Roof pitch of the Nose. And only Gumby would trust a rusty old pin as "pro" on a runout trad climb. Alot of that rusted junk you find on old climbs is there because nobody's bothered to take it out. Nobody climbs trad with a hammer anymore.
[ This Message was edited by: apollodorus on 2002-07-09 02:39 ]
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number7
Jun 30, 2002, 3:19 AM
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Why even clip it?
Safety. It's all about numbers or increasing your chances of survival. As other climbers have mentioned, inspect and equalize if it looks ok. "Good" fixed pro is a good thing because:
1. If you fall on your own pro, you might have 2 pieces of fixed pro.
2. If you take a fall, maybe your piece could fail and the fixed pro will hold.
3. 2 pieces of pro tend to be (but aren't always) better than one lonley old piece.
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mobius
Jul 9, 2002, 7:32 AM
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And why wouldent you clip it? Seems kinda dumb just to pass a place to clip in, even if it is crap. Least that way if you fall, it MIGHT catch, or at least slow ya down a bit.
Matthew~
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