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Apr 12, 2005, 2:50 AM
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In reply to: Long-time Black Hills climber Paul Duvall in Critical Condition Paul Duvall is in a Mexican hospital in critical but stable condition after being robbed and brutally beaten near Monterrey, Mexico. Paul and his partner Karen have spent many wonderful winters living and climbing in Mexico at El Potrero Chico. Paul and Karen were driving from another climbing area back toward home when they stopped on the ramp of a freeway overpass to make supper. Three men broke their van window while they were parked. Thankfully Karen was not injured but Paul was beaten severely, sustaining head injuries and life threatening internal injuries to his lungs, kidneys and pancreas. Paul spent a week in an emergency hospital, and has been transferred to another hospital in San Luis Potosi where he is still in critical but stable condition. He has regained consciousness, but is presently being kept sedated and asleep. Karen says four or five different doctors are watching over Paul and he has been receiving excellent care. Karen asks that everyone keep Paul in their prayers and send him positive energy for a complete recovery. Karen and Paul love Mexico and have a great community of friends throughout the country. Karen is quick to mention that this could have happened anywhere, and hopes that people don’t unfairly assume Mexico is inherently dangerous. Karen is staying in a hotel next to the hospital and can be reached by phone at 011-52-444-813-3797 extension 1026 between 7-10 p.m Central Time. Paul and Karen, we are all thinking of you! We hope Paul is out of the hospital soon!!! Bruce
I became friends with Paul and Karen years ago when I was lucky enough to be in a history course at BHSU with her daughter. They are wonderful people, and I ask that you all keep them in your hearts and prayers.
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camhead
Apr 12, 2005, 4:09 AM
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why is this in community? I don't know Paul or Karen, but I hate to hear when someone has trouble in Mexico. Best of luck to him.
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philbox
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Apr 12, 2005, 4:36 AM
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philbox moved this thread from Community to World Climbing News.
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climbinginchico
Apr 12, 2005, 4:57 AM
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Best of luck to both of them... They will be in my prayers...
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bvb
Apr 12, 2005, 6:07 AM
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i've spent quite a bit of time climbing in mexico, and encountered more dicey situations there than in all my other travels combined. to say you don't have to be really, really heads-up in mexico is crazy. some parts of mexico are truly dangerous...like many places in the u.s., of course, but at least here there is a little bit more control when a situation goes bad.
i knew and climbed with paul when i lived in boston. i'm terribly saddened to hear this news. godspeed, and here's to a quick recovery.
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cupton
Apr 12, 2005, 1:04 PM
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Shit, that is terrible to happen to anyone. My best wishes for a quick recovery.
Just goes to remind you to be careful, dont take your safety for granted where ever you are in the world.
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seagypsy
Apr 12, 2005, 4:55 PM
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I've been in touch with Karen and she asks that everyone send their prayers and healing energy...It is really so sad what happened as they are both such beautiful people. My prayers and good wishes go out to them both.
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elvislegs
Apr 12, 2005, 5:30 PM
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that's terrible. anyone know the prognosis? is the hospital care down there good?
best wishes.
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seagypsy
Apr 12, 2005, 5:51 PM
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Paul is still in intensive care, and recovering from an operation on his pancreas to do with complications from a Staph infection. he is responding well to the antibiotics, but he is still on a ventilator. Karen says he should be awake today (Tuesday, April 12th) and the doctors are now optimistic about his recovery...
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moonshine505
Apr 12, 2005, 5:52 PM
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New Mexico is sketchy enough, to think that Mexico is more sketchy, which everyone I know that has EVER climbed there says, is what keeps me from El Salto and the Potrero. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
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seagypsy
Apr 12, 2005, 7:55 PM
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[quote="moonshine505"]New Mexico is sketchy enough, to think that Mexico is more sketchy, which everyone I know that has EVER climbed there says, is what keeps me from El Salto and the Potrero. Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
I climb at El Salto and El Potrero and as much as I love these places I have to say that they really do not reflect the 'real Mexico'. I feel safe climbing there, but these climbing areas are very close to the US border and the campgrounds at Potrero are so totally set up for tourists it hardly feels like Mexico...Paul and Karen were much further South outside of San Luis Potosi and they were off the highway when they were attacked.
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cupton
Apr 13, 2005, 12:04 PM
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In reply to: I feel safe climbing there, but these climbing areas are very close to the US border and the campgrounds at Potrero are so totally set up for tourists it hardly feels like Mexico...
I usually feel safer farther away from tourist areas. You get criminals 'poaching' the tourist areas for the very reason that there are tourists there. Farther off the beaten track most people you meet are incredibly nice and the 'criminals' you do meet are mostly just normal guys who see an opportunity and take it because they have so little.
Dont make yourself a target. Be nice to people. It goes a long way.
That said, you can always be incredibly unlucky as this case appears to be.
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potreroed
Apr 18, 2005, 5:03 PM
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You should not let this tragic incident keep you from visiting El Potrero Chico (or anywhere else in Mexico).
I have lived here for 15 years and have seen thousands of climbers visit from all over the world and nobody has had any trouble at all.
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omerdimsum
Apr 18, 2005, 5:32 PM
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In reply to: i've spent quite a bit of time climbing in mexico, and encountered more dicey situations there than in all my other travels combined. to say you don't have to be really, really heads-up in mexico is crazy. some parts of mexico are truly dangerous...like many places in the u.s., of course, but at least here there is a little bit more control when a situation goes bad.
I DISAGREE. I have traveled pretty extensively throughout Mexico and Central America, even for extended periods (e.g. six months). And I have NEVER had a bad situation.
Granted, I try not to travel like an obnoxious tourist (e.g. sterotypical Ugly American). Instead I am situationally aware, and not try to force my culture on others.
Someone else mentioned New Mexico....I believe last time I was in New mexico (NM), there was a sign on the Denny's restaurant wall that stated "no guns, or teens after 10:00"??
Just last week I was in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico (climbing, surfing, clubbing, etc.) and not a single thing happened. Same safe experience as when I was in remote, rural Mexican areas and older, urban Mexican areas...
***
I am sure this unfortunate couple was traveling like travelers, not like ugly tourists. Nonetheless, things happen. My prayers go out to them.
JD
NOTE: It is Monday AM and I have yet to drink my coffee. Sorry if this rant is unclear...
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seagypsy
Apr 18, 2005, 8:49 PM
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I use to do work for conservation organizations in Mexico in remote rural areas and never had anything happen...Potrero Chico IS about the saftest place I have been at in the US or MX and it is my sincerest hope that no one would hesitate to visit El Potero because of what happened to Paul and Karen many miles away in another part of Mexico.
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ullr
Apr 23, 2005, 2:03 PM
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Best wishes, heal and recover fast.
I've spent some time in rural and urban Mexico climbing, paragliding, etc. Never had a problem.
I found myself in an uncomfortable situation in Mexico City once, but nothing came of it.
This beating and robbery could have happened just as easily in the US, or any other country.
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nikegirl
Apr 23, 2005, 4:57 PM
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sending out good ju ju...
heal fast and strong.
goddess bless!
~T
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saltamonte
Apr 23, 2005, 6:50 PM
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In reply to: i've spent quite a bit of time climbing in mexico, and encountered more dicey situations there than in all my other travels combined. to say you don't have to be really, really heads-up in mexico is crazy. some parts of mexico are truly dangerous...like many places in the u.s., of course, but at least here there is a little bit more control when a situation goes bad.
I believe that part of the "problem" is not as much Mexico as it is that anytime you are somewhere that the culture is not your own and you either do not speak the language or only speak it a little. You are at a disadvantage to avoid and even recognize "dicey situations" I have witnessed many occasions where someone due to a lack of cultural and language understanding either does something very ill advised that causes a "dicey" situation like Flashing lots of cash in a crouded place. or is freaked out by a situation they believe to be dangerous not knowing it is normal in this culture such as a single woman approached by a man in the street or market trying to sell something) it is always scarier when you can't understand what someone is saying.
I haved lived here in Mexico around 9 years and currently live only about 2 hours from Potrero Chico. I feel just as safe here in Mexico as I do in the USA.
To be honest petty theft is a slightly bigger problem here in Mexico than the USA. But all that is needed is a little extra care about where you leave valuables and you should be fine. On the Flip side due to the family emphasis of Mexican culture and the Catholic heritage of Mexico There is less Crime against Children. Perhaps you have seen Western movies where the cattle rustlers break every law but draw the line at mistreating a woman. In the USA moral criminals have become few and far between here in Mexico because of the deep roots of the catholic church in the culture it is still very common. The Mexican people are very protective of all children.
My advice is be extra careful where you set your purse or wallet but don't let worry stop you from enjoying Mexico it is actually in some ways safer than the USA. And be sure to ask advice of a trustworthy culturally literate individual about what situations are or are not "dicey"
My regrets to everyone who has been assulted or robbed in Mexico or anywhere else for that matter but unless you would allow an assalt report near Yosemite stop you from ever going there don't let it stop you from Visiting Mexico It is a beatiful and Fun place to visit with wonderful locals
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mcumbrae
Apr 23, 2005, 8:56 PM
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First of all, i wish a quick recovery to Mr. Duvall.
Second, i have to say that from what i have read so far in this post, very few people here know what Mexico is really about. If it was really dangerous to come here, our beautiful mountains wouldn´t be full with citizens of the USA (and every other country, for that matter) every summer.
Sure, bad incidents happen now and then, but i have had my share of racism and hostility the times i have gone to Hueco, for example. And i DO speak the local language and understand the culture. I believe, in all due respect, that if the citizens of the USA (i´m sorry i can´t call you americans, because i was taught that all who live in the american continent ARE americans) stopped assuming that everywhere they go they will be understood and took the responsibility to learn the language and basic culture aspects, agressions such as this would be far fewer. And that is not saying that there are a lot of incidents.
Trying to draw as less attention to yourself as you can is also very useful when you are away from home. Most of us are very welcoming (ask the spaniards :cry: ) but then again, every head is a world and it´s hard to predict everyone´s actions.
I´ve read my share of cr@p in this post ("Potrero hardly feels like Mexico", "to say you don't have to be really, really heads-up in mexico is crazy", "here there is a little bit more control when a situation goes bad", etc.) I can tell you, as a mexican AND a climber, that Mexico is not more dangerous than any other place if you have true traveling skills. Then again, as other poster said, you can always get hit by bad luck.
Those of you who choose coming here, i recommend the Sierra Tarahumara in my beautiful Chihuahua, 6 hours south of New Mexico.
Those of you who choose to be afraid of foreigners, we can do without you.
Cheers.
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guangzhou
Apr 24, 2005, 8:40 AM
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Before you lay blame about lack of culture or langugae on Paul and his life partner, you should know:
Both Speak Spanish.
Both know about Mexican culture, not from books, but from the countless winter they have spent there. They actually own a house there.
Paul, in his 60's would not have put up a fight either.
Morfre prayers
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mcumbrae
Apr 26, 2005, 4:07 AM
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I think that´s pretty much covered in the "bad luck clause" of my previous post, then. In no way i meant to condone the senseless aggression, as all aggressions are. But i could not keep quiet to some stuff i read. Scumbags like those who attacked Mr. Duvall give my country a bad reputation, but we do not possess any patent on them: they happen to be a worldwide spread phenomena.
And certainly Mexico does not posses the patent on aggression either. We welcome everyone, but at some point something bad IS GOING TO HAPPEN... it´s not me, it´s the odds.
Good luck to him and congratulations and utmost respect to his wife for not running into fear for consolation.
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jsierra
Apr 27, 2005, 8:12 PM
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In reply to: Most of us are very welcoming (ask the spaniards :cry: )
Hey, don't be a hater! :wink:
Prayers and best wishes for a speedy (and uneventful) recovery! I agree with what a lot of people seem to be saying: it could happen to anybody, anywhere, not just Mexico, and it's not always due to any lack of cultural knowledge. I know plenty of New Yorkers who get mugged (badly) in NYC, and these people *know* The City.
Either way, it's a terrible thing, I'm sorry to hear that it happened at all.
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charley
Apr 28, 2005, 12:06 AM
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Hope Paul is doing well and healing fast.
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mcumbrae
Apr 28, 2005, 1:45 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Most of us are very welcoming (ask the spaniards :cry: ) Hey, don't be a hater! :wink:
I´m not, i swear... but sometimes i get pissed off when people put tags on us mexicans :( I´m sorry if i offended anyone.
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jsierra
Apr 28, 2005, 4:33 AM
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In reply to: I´m not, i swear... but sometimes i get pissed off when people put tags on us mexicans :( I´m sorry if i offended anyone.
Heh, I know - it's just that we Spaniards got a bad rap after little things like conquering the Americas (the hard way) and that whole Inquisition thing... ;)
No worries, no offense taken! If anything, I got a good laugh.
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