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ginshun
Apr 22, 2005, 1:43 PM
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Hello all, this is my first post, and I have never even tried slacklineing.
I have read through quite a bit of the stuff on this forum, and I think I have a handle down on how I want to set up my slackline. I ordered a bunch of one inch webing, and some biners, and that is all I plan on using. I don't know anything about rock climbing or any of that. I just want to try slackline, because it looks fun and I would like to improve my balance.
Well, I want to make sure my set-up makes sence to the pros, so I have made a diagram of the plan. Please take a look at it and see what you think. I tried to be thorough, without it getting too cluddered up. Let me know if you would suggest doing something different or whatever.
http://img.photobucket.com/...inshun/slackline.jpg
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iltripp
Apr 22, 2005, 2:12 PM
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It doesn't look bad, but it is possible to simplify it a great deal. I've got a similar set-up, but it uses less biners.
I'm not sure why you tied a bowline on the tree slings. It seems to me that might be awkward, but I've never tried a bowline on webbing. I don't use tree slings at all, but when I had some on my old setup, I tied them into a loop with a water knot and then girth hitched them around the tree.
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ginshun
Apr 22, 2005, 2:32 PM
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That is the kind of comments I am looking for. The bowlines were really part that I was unsure about. Like I said, I don't really know anything about slacking, so I am just reading through threads and kind of shooting from the hip on how I want to do things. Any advise from someone who actually knows what they are doing is appreciated.
Edit: Oh ya, I think the reason I used the bowlines on the tree slings in the first place is because that is how the pre-made ones in the kit from Slackline Express come. Unless I am misunderstanding the concept.
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coldclimb
Apr 22, 2005, 3:26 PM
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First off, have you seen this article?
My thoughts:
Bowline is great on webbing. If your knots get stuck, you can smash them a few times with a hammer at different angles and they'll come out.
I would lose the biner on the anchor end. One of the things you might want to look for in a slackline setup is to eliminate as much metal as possible in the system, so if you do break anything, metal is not flying at you. On the ends, it's best to have an attachment system that won't rub when you surf side-to-side. Your system there should do that just fine if you bowline the line directly to those two loops on the rabbit runner. The runner will rub on the tree, but that won't cause problems, just tree scars, so pad if you wish. It'll keep the webbing from rubbing on webbing, and keep metal out of the system, which is what I'm usually after.
Your tightening system is great, it's the simple four biner system shown in the article linked above. All I can say is that a half hitch tie off will slip. I've found that the best thing to do is walk the tail around the tree as many times as possible, then tie it with half hitches as many times as possible. That will usually work. If you have a lot of friends or a comealong on the tail, you could even softpoint the line and remove ALL metal, but that's a different story altogether. ;)
There's other things, but they're just preference and convenience, as are the things I already mentioned. That system will work fine as is, this is just the minor changes I would make right off. :)
Awesome start man. Set that thing up and slack, and get started doing things you thought were impossible. ;)
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ginshun
Apr 22, 2005, 3:51 PM
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Thanks coldclimb, and yes I did read your article, it was very helpful.
So if I understand you right, your suggestion is to take the single out of the anchor end and just tie a bowline directly in the and of the slackline and through the two bowlines on the sling?
Do you think that will cause any problems keeping the line flat? It seemed to me from looking at pics that it would stay flatter with the biner and clove hitch, but I don't really know. That was pretty much my only reasoning in having the biner on that end.
I also was planning on putting in tree friendlies, and wrapping the webbing around a few more times to keep the half hitch form slipping. I just didn't put them on the diagram for simplicity sake.
Also, is there anyreason that you could'nt use 5 or 6 biners in the same way that I am planning on using the 4, or is the extra MA pretty much canceled out by the friction at that point?
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petsfed
Apr 22, 2005, 3:55 PM
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In reply to: Your tightening system is great, it's the simple four biner system shown in the article linked above. All I can say is that a half hitch tie off will slip. I've found that the best thing to do is walk the tail around the tree as many times as possible, then tie it with half hitches as many times as possible. That will usually work. If you have a lot of friends or a comealong on the tail, you could even softpoint the line and remove ALL metal, but that's a different story altogether. ;)
You'll find that you lose a lot to friction using a simple 4 biner simple set up. Z-drag has to be the better way to do it (do a search on it, you'll find lots) stacking the web to lock it off (as seen in the article). Using a Z drag, you don't need 6 or 8 people to get it tight enough (a real bonus when you're just slacking between classes). The other bonus is that by using a z-drag, you're using the exact same system (maybe with one more fetch) for any length line.
Have fun and good luck.
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coldclimb
Apr 22, 2005, 4:07 PM
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Yeah I'd say to keep the biner out. Your line won't twist at all with the knot, and either way you do it it's tough to get it "flat". You'll find that "flat" isn't as important as "not twisted," also. :) I think you won't have any problems.
I don't use tree friendlies, but that's because the trees are in my own yard. In a park, I would. :) I actually have 2x4s that I have hacked into shape with a machette nailed into my trees to prevent fatal damage, but they're not very sightly. :lol: We'll see if they work, come spring.
Petsfed: that's covered in the article linked above. The Z method is less friction, but way harder to tie off. It's a tradeoff, and I personally find that in practice the method in the diagram works better, regardless of friction. In response to ginshun, more biners makes the friction too much. It's the two biners, four biners, or a really loose line.
One other note: don't clove hitch to one biner and slack on it. Really, just don't. :lol: That is, unless you LIKE spending a lot of time unwelding knots.
Edit: Wait, now I see that Petsfed is recommending the Ellington. I would also recommend the Ellington, since it locks off automatically, but that's just one of the other changes I would make, and is simply preferrence. ;) I'd also simply use my slackdog on the anchor end instead of a knot in the line, and use my slackjack to tighten things. :lol: But that's just my speed setup, that's all. You'll get into all the more complicated fun stuff quite quickly, ginshun. ;)
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ginshun
Apr 22, 2005, 4:46 PM
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Thanks again for all the help guys.
Would there be any advantage to using a knot other that the bowline for the end of the slings? Maybe like a double figure 8 loop, or something else. I had also thought of tieing the bowline (or whatever) at the end, and then tieing like a butterfly loop somewhere in the middle of the sling, depending on the size of the tree. Such as to get the most actual slack line between the trees as possible.
Also is there any advantage to using static rope in the tightening system (or the slings) as opposed to just useing the actual slackline? I know there are lots of setups like this. It seems logical that I could use pretty much the exat same system, only use a separate static rope for tightening it. I am not sure if there would really be any point to it though, aside from making me need an extra rope.
Sorry for all the random questions. I don't even have the stuff to set this thing up yet. I am going to drive myself crazy by the time it actually gets here. LOL.
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coldclimb
Apr 22, 2005, 5:08 PM
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In reply to: Thanks again for all the help guys. Would there be any advantage to using a knot other that the bowline for the end of the slings? Maybe like a double figure 8 loop, or something else. I had also thought of tieing the bowline (or whatever) at the end, and then tieing like a butterfly loop somewhere in the middle of the sling, depending on the size of the tree. Such as to get the most actual slack line between the trees as possible. Also is there any advantage to using static rope in the tightening system (or the slings) as opposed to just useing the actual slackline? I know there are lots of setups like this. It seems logical that I could use pretty much the exat same system, only use a separate static rope for tightening it. I am not sure if there would really be any point to it though, aside from making me need an extra rope. Sorry for all the random questions. I don't even have the stuff to set this thing up yet. I am going to drive myself crazy by the time it actually gets here. LOL.
The knot doesn't matter too much, as long as it's a "real" one. ;) Shortening your sling as much as possible is also fine. It might make it rub more against the tree, that's all.
Static rope does help a lot in the tightening system, but wouldn't matter enough to be worth it in the anchor slings. The dynamic webbing hurts the most when trying to tie off the line to remove all metal. I've never tried pulling with rope and biners, I'd probably throw in pulleys just because it's not much trouble and will give you MUCH more power. I've walked some incredibly tight lines that were tensioned with climbing ropes and pulleys, and then softpointed. Static helps, but dynamic works fine, in the right system.
Sounds like you've got the start down. I had much suckier systems for my first lines. :lol:
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petsfed
Apr 22, 2005, 5:17 PM
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In reply to: Thanks again for all the help guys. Would there be any advantage to using a knot other that the bowline for the end of the slings? Maybe like a double figure 8 loop, or something else. I had also thought of tieing the bowline (or whatever) at the end, and then tieing like a butterfly loop somewhere in the middle of the sling, depending on the size of the tree. Such as to get the most actual slack line between the trees as possible. Also is there any advantage to using static rope in the tightening system (or the slings) as opposed to just useing the actual slackline? I know there are lots of setups like this. It seems logical that I could use pretty much the exat same system, only use a separate static rope for tightening it. I am not sure if there would really be any point to it though, aside from making me need an extra rope. Sorry for all the random questions. I don't even have the stuff to set this thing up yet. I am going to drive myself crazy by the time it actually gets here. LOL.
I actually use a z-drag rigged from static line, then tie off with the Ellington rigged from the slackline. Its a two step process for every pull (tighten pulley system, then tighten with the ellington) but it means I can get some impressively tight lines without any help. In fact, when I get more than one person pulling, I've broken slings before. VERY EFFECTIVE. It also means I can completely eliminate the pulley system when I actually walk the line, meaning there are only 3 carabiners in the system at any given time. I don't soft point because it slows tear down time considerably. When I'm slacking between classes, time is at a premium.
As far as slings go, I have 15 foot sections of 2 inch tubular webbing with frost knots on either end. Works great, and the webbing is wide enough that tree friendlys aren't always necessary. If you go that route, remember to leave long tails and get the knot as tight as possible. The fewer knots you have to tie and untie, the better.
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coldclimb
Apr 22, 2005, 5:26 PM
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In reply to: I actually use a z-drag rigged from static line, then tie off with the Ellington rigged from the slackline. Its a two step process for every pull (tighten pulley system, then tighten with the ellington) but it means I can get some impressively tight lines without any help. In fact, when I get more than one person pulling, I've broken slings before. VERY EFFECTIVE. It also means I can completely eliminate the pulley system when I actually walk the line, meaning there are only 3 carabiners in the system at any given time. I don't soft point because it slows tear down time considerably. When I'm slacking between classes, time is at a premium.
Ah, yes, I see what you mean now. Yeah that's definitely one awesome way to go. To put it simply for those who haven't done it, it's a tensioning system added onto the loose end on an ellington. THAT will get you a wire tight line quite easily, and give you the great fun of more complicated systems. It makes you smile. ;)
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petsfed
Apr 22, 2005, 5:27 PM
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Some notes about the ellington system:
Make sure you back it up! I've seen it slip, usually in a 4 carabiner configuration. If you're not using it as your pulling system as well, set it up with only two carabiners. The added friction may glaze your webbing, but the line won't slip. I use a seperate piece of webbing for that exact purpose.
If you will be using the 4 crab set up, set your line higher so it doesn't have to be as tight (and thus have a higher risk of slipping).
Falling 18 inches when your line gives out unexpectedly may not seem that bad, but straight legging it into the turf from that height could put you on crutches. Trust me, I know.
If you're using the ellington just to back up your regular system, its handy to have a person to pull that sucker down tight, so you don't have to walk around your tree and try to pull your pulley cord and your ellington line at the same time.
Lastly, if you do use a lot of carabiners in your system, try to refine it so when all is said and done, all of the forces are on lockers that have been screwed shut. Lots of bouncing can vibrate a carabiner open, and that's never pleasant.
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ginshun
Apr 22, 2005, 5:37 PM
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Thanks, I might look into some pulleys and static rope later if I decide that I like slacklining, and want to do more with it. For now, the $40 in webing and caribiners is all I plan to spend.
I think that I have a good enough handle on it now to at least get a line set up to try.
Any other comments are more than welcome, keep it coming guys.
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oasis27alh
Apr 22, 2005, 5:52 PM
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this is the most simple way I've used to set up a tightening system:
http://photobucket.com/...666/memento27oasis/?
also, just put a biner in the knot that usually gets tight, then just wriggle the biner around to loosten it, it's so easy that way.
http://photobucket.com/albums/v666/memento27oasis/?action=view¤t=DSC01403.jpg
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firstchair
Apr 22, 2005, 6:37 PM
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I find that one biner usually does the trick as a pulley for tightening.
In addition, the biner through a webbing knot works great for getting it undone, but an even better idea is to tie it with multiple loops. For example, if you tie a clove-hitch to a biner with webbing, twist each lobe an extra 3 or 4 times before clipping it. This will ensure that it does not tighten down on itself to a point where you can't untie it.
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ginshun
Apr 22, 2005, 6:46 PM
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Nice tips, thanks.
Also keep in mind that I don't necessarily care about simplicity, as much as I would like to make the best system I can with webbing and biners only (witch I supose kind of implies simplicity, but anyway). I am willing to try different things to see how I can get it the tightest, and keep it tight.
Like I said, I might add other stuff later, but not until after I actually dicide that it is something I do more than a couple times a year.
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coldclimb
Apr 22, 2005, 8:35 PM
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In reply to: Nice tips, thanks. Also keep in mind that I don't necessarily care about simplicity, as much as I would like to make the best system I can with webbing and biners only (witch I supose kind of implies simplicity, but anyway). I am willing to try different things to see how I can get it the tightest, and keep it tight. Like I said, I might add other stuff later, but not until after I actually dicide that it is something I do more than a couple times a year.
Ahh, in that case, go with Petsfed. Set up an Ellington, then set up another system on the tail of that one. It's complicated, but you can make the line sing. :D My personal favorite is to clip a pulley to the line, then tie a static rope to the tree and loop it through the pulley. Then tie an ascender to the rope and clamp it on the other side. Then clamp another ascender to pull on the end, and rig a tensioning system on that, then rig another on that one. I tensioned a 125 foot line single-handedly using a large-scale version of this setup. This is when the rigging gets as fun as the slacking! ;)
Of course getting good on loose lines is also a lot of fun. You can get a superb surfing line with the elington alone, and pulling alone. It's not all about tightness. :wink:
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ginshun
Apr 22, 2005, 9:18 PM
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In reply to: Of course getting good on loose lines is also a lot of fun. You can get a superb surfing line with the elington alone, and pulling alone. It's not all about tightness. :wink:
Ya, I suppose I didn't really think about that, it makes sense though. I did get a guide from someone else that showed a pic with an Ellington and then just a simple 2:1 on the tail of it. I thought I might try that. I guess I will just try a few different things and see what I like.
I am a mechnical engineer after all, so you would think I could figure out how to tie a rope bewteen two trees. :wink:
LOL!
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ginshun
Apr 28, 2005, 7:31 PM
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Just as an update, you guys will be happy to learn that I finally actually set up my line the other night. I used basically the exact system that I show in the diagram except for not using a biner on the anchor end and doing the tightening system a tiny bit different. Instead of going through all the biners as diagramed, when I go through the last of the four biners instead of going through through from top to bottom like I all the rest ot them I go through from bottom to top, and then back through the 3rd biner undernieth the webbing that is already there. This means that I am pulling away from the anchor point to tighten it, but also makes the system self locking.
I don't remember who suggested it, but it seems to work great.
Now if I could only stand on the stupid thing...
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niles
Apr 28, 2005, 8:16 PM
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I'm not sure if I understood exactly what you're doing, but it sounds like you may have an unhelpful change of direction. Correct me if I'm wrong (those of you who know this stuff better than me), but if you add a turn around a biner at the anchor I'm pretty sure all you get is another change of direction without adding a MA, and adding wraps to carabiners is less than desirable in terms of friction. It sounds like the last turn does make your system autolocking, but I think it may take a lot from your pull force.
~Niles
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coldclimb
Apr 28, 2005, 8:56 PM
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Yeah I think Niles is right. Pulling away from the anchor probably means you've got one extra biner's worth of friction in the system for no real advantage. Gotta love the trial and error of slacklining! ;)
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altelis
Apr 28, 2005, 9:15 PM
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i have a suggestion/question:
i mainly set up looser lines than uber tight ones, so this might not work for those really tight ones, but instead of using a clove-hitch, which requires a second biner to keep it from becoming welded in place, i use a truckers hitch to get my friction....so instead of tying a clove-hitch, you make a loop in the webbing, then pass a bight from the side that you will pull through the loop....clip a biner into the loop, then wrap the webbing around the tree, clip into biner and pull....you can make a higher looser line with one person, or a tighter lower line with two no problems....and there is NEVER a problem of the hitch getting welded....no matter how tight i've pulled the line, loosen the line and just pull without the biner in the hitch...it just pops out...
was this helpful?
is there something i'm misssing? b/c i think i'm the only one who uses this method...which sometimes makes me think its not "safe"
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ginshun
Apr 29, 2005, 1:25 PM
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This is basicallly what I am doing to tighten it up. I haven't set up any lines longer than about 25 feet, but it seems to work fine. I can get it tight enough to hold me up without too much sag, and I am not exactly a lightweight. I will try to set it up a little longer line this weekend and see how it goes.
http://img.photobucket.com/...tighteningsystem.jpg
I realize that the last turn is only for locking purposes, and that it adds friction, but it seems to work pretty good.
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ginshun
Apr 29, 2005, 1:49 PM
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Now that I look at it, you might get pretty much the same advantage, only with less friction from this:
http://img.photobucket.com/...hun/tighttening2.jpg
I might have to try them both this weekend, and see which one I like more.
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greenketch
Apr 29, 2005, 5:39 PM
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Ginshun, I have one quick note on your setup. It looks good and solves a few of the challenges. I do see that on the anchor end, where the webbing paths oppose, (exiting the upper biner vs. entering the lower) the webbing is traveling in opposite directions. You may find that once your fairly tight the two biners get pinched and this could increase friction considerably. I can't think of a reroute right now to fix this. Possibly just feeding the lower one from the bottom, it may take some pencil whipping. When your experimenting watch for this though.
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