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alpinerock
Apr 27, 2005, 1:40 AM
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I've heard that you need 5 sets of cams just to climb at Indian creek? I'm hoping this is speculation, any suggestions on what to buy?
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pk
Apr 27, 2005, 1:51 AM
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Look at the route DB here, Mac's done a pretty good job with alot of the rack questions in the descriptioins, how many #3's 4's etc.
P.K.
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vegastradguy
Apr 27, 2005, 1:52 AM
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although i've never been- i do know that many climbs there take several of each size cam....but, if i were ever to go, i'd just rustle up three or four folks who have full racks like myself, and presto! up to about 8 of each size cam magically appears!
others can probably offer some suggestions for a 'personal' rack to supplement others racks for climbs. i'd suspect take whatever size piece correlates to the size of crack you want to climb....
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wilcox510
Apr 27, 2005, 2:31 AM
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i've used 12 pieces of the same size on routes down there (but im a big chicken and place lots of gear). there are certainly less sustained and more varied climbs, but i would think an absolute minimum would be around 5 or 6 each in the .75 to 3 camalot range. have fun
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petsfed
Apr 27, 2005, 2:32 AM
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In reply to: I've heard that you need 5 sets of cams just to climb at Indian creek? I'm hoping this is speculation, any suggestions on what to buy?
I'd say that's pretty accurate, if you like to run things out. A better approach is to have 3 or 4 partners who each have a double set of cams. Mix and match, borrow and beg. Anyone who owns enough cams all by their lonesome to adequately protect the average IC splitter has waaaay too much disposable income.
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 27, 2005, 2:33 AM
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My buddy who climbs there a lot has 8#2 camalots and about 4 #3's and a bunch of bigger stuff. he bootyed most of the #2's. When i come out we still marry both racks and have a ton of big cams 8^)
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slobmonster
Apr 27, 2005, 6:10 AM
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Synopsis: bring friends who have Friends.
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mikeehartley
Apr 27, 2005, 2:16 PM
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The short answer is "it depends". Sure there are routes where most folks are going to want 10 cams in one size but that's often only on the 12's and 13's. I've done a lot of great routes there with only 3 - 4 sets and protected them well. Many of the climbs do vary in size and you can get passive pro on many as well. Supercrack, The Wave, and some of the 11's on Blue Gamma are a few examples but there are many more. You just have to be a little more selective but fun is still there to be had.
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takeme
Apr 28, 2005, 12:32 AM
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"Everything you and all your friends own"
Although in seriousness, if you can't scrounge loads of cams, you can seek out "the moderate Indian Creek tour" and/or the "Indian Creek for normal sized racks tour", which overlap greatly but are not quite the same. Essentially routes that require no more than 2 sets of cams, giving you enough decent routes for an extended weekend. You'll get some good climbing in and get a good taste of the Creek, without really getting the full spankings required for complete Creek initiation.
Theses tours get described semi-regularly here and elsewhere on the web but if you can't find 'em and really need to know, PM me. Many of the tower routes- Bridger Jacks and Sixshooters- in the area (not to mention up closer to Moab) require no more than 2 sets of cams--eg Lightning Bolt Cracks, Thumbelina, Sparkling Touch, Easter Island, Sunflower. Great routes all.
Also, it is sometimes possible to hook up with other friendly parties or at least borrow some gear from the party next to you for a climb.
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strongerthanyesterday
Apr 28, 2005, 12:53 AM
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if you have a set in different brands does that work? i am just getting into trad leading so i might not have asked that question right. basically, if i have a set of bd camelots and a set of maxcams, that would work, right? i realize the slings arn't universal colors for the sizes across the brands- that sucks!!!
and to tell the truth, i'd rather have less gear than more gear, just in general, less to keep track of, store, deal with, etc. not that i'm going to be running it out tho, that's not what i mean.
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jorgle
Apr 28, 2005, 1:18 AM
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I was just there this past weekend. It was handy having 4 to 5 sets of cams. But you can get away with less. All the climbers around were pretty cool, most groups offered to lend cams if you needed some.
p.s. It also depends on what level you lead. If you are an 11 climber the easier routes take less gear. If you are a 9+ climber you will need more cams.
J
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esallen
Apr 30, 2005, 2:11 PM
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I was able to do several of the shorter routes with only 2 sets of cams. If I go back again, I'll definately need at least 2 more sets.
Eric
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alpinerock
May 1, 2005, 11:29 PM
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In reply to: I was just there this past weekend. It was handy having 4 to 5 sets of cams. But you can get away with less. All the climbers around were pretty cool, most groups offered to lend cams if you needed some. p.s. It also depends on what level you lead. If you are an 11 climber the easier routes take less gear. If you are a 9+ climber you will need more cams. J
I was actually hoping to get my first 5.12- trad lead down there, Coynes crack, possibly, but i don't know, something finger size perferably. Yeah i would bring as many friends as possible but the problem is that i'm only 16, so not a lot of my partners have gear or a lot of it, i only have half a rack myself and have learned to run it out. Also on the same note is passive pro much of an option? or is it not worth the weight?
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wilcox510
May 1, 2005, 11:39 PM
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there are a few routes where passive gear is helpful, but not many (unless you're earl wiggins). coyne crack looks amazing and im hoping to get on it soon too, but if youre chasing your first 12- look elsewhere, coyne crack has been downgraded to 11+ in the new guidebook. regardless of the grade, it looks great and im sure it will kick my arse. good luck on it!
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petsfed
May 1, 2005, 11:49 PM
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In reply to: there are a few routes where passive gear is helpful, but not many (unless you're earl wiggins). coyne crack looks amazing and im hoping to get on it soon too, but if youre chasing your first 12- look elsewhere, coyne crack has been downgraded to 11+ in the new guidebook. regardless of the grade, it looks great and im sure it will kick my arse. good luck on it!
So now its more in line with Fingers In a Lightsocket, just around the corner. With Coyne, and especially Fingers, you need a good variety. On fingers you can get away with a double or triple set of aliens smaller than red.
With Coyne, same idea, but with some .5, .75 and 1 camalots.
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brutusofwyde
May 2, 2005, 1:04 AM
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Indian Creek seems like a good place to have, say, 8 linkcams.
But the Friends with Friends approach has worked well for many years.
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tradmanclimbs
May 2, 2005, 1:29 AM
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You can NEVER have too much gear in the desert :twisted: unless you are trying to squirm your way up a chimny and all those huge fu$king umbrellas hanging off your gear sling are acting like boat anchors but none of them are big enough to place :shock: :shock:
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angry
May 2, 2005, 2:55 PM
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That new guidebook is weird. Fingers in the Lightsocket is way harder than Coyne Crack (don't say otherwise unless you've led - NOT TOPROPED - both of them).
All the tight hands cracks have been downgraded and he upgraded all the fist cracks. I wouldn't take the ratings too serious, his whole book is a "look at me, I'm so rad" type of ordeal. It'll at least get you to the base of the climbs.
I have 4 sets of cams, and my friends usually bring 1-3 more sets. We have a ton and don't worry about having enough rack to climb there. I used to be all about begging and borrowing from everyone though.
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wilcox510
May 19, 2005, 9:11 PM
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even though im the one who commented on the downgrading of coyne crack (which i recently got on, and got my arse kicked by it) you have to acknowledge that indian creek grades are all size dependent. if you have tiny hands coyne crack may not be too bad, but for a lot of folks it pretty tough. on the opposite end of the spectrum, i have a friend with really big hands who says incredible hand crack is really hard for him, when for me its perfect. the ratings there are very subjective, but of course if i had sent coyne crack i would have rated it 12- instead of 11+, in fact since i didnt send it i think i'll call it 12- instead of 11+ :D
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crackmd
May 19, 2005, 10:08 PM
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In reply to: That new guidebook is weird. Fingers in the Lightsocket is way harder than Coyne Crack (don't say otherwise unless you've led - NOT TOPROPED - both of them).
I've lead both and I have trouble agreeing with this comment. IMHO Fingers is a bit easier because it is conducive to using a variety of techniques (i.e. stemming, fingerlocking, liebacking). There is a hands-off stemrest at midheight where you can psych up for the remaining 25 feet and a decent stem just prior to the crux where you can slam in a couple small cams. I found that by varying my techniques the route was not too pumpy and was over pretty quick.
Coyne's on the other hand requires the ability to jam some hard sizes at the start. If you can't fingerstack then the start is real hard and I have seen a bunch of climbers fall into a scary lieback (on lead) because of their inability to jam it. It then requires the ability to sustain thinhands jams for a long way with only 1 handjam rest that I can remember until 10 feet or so before the anchor where it opens up into handjams. I am not arguing that the route is 5.12 as many do, but it is an exercise in sustained Indian Creek jamming.
I think that a strong climber with little experience in crackclimbing will have a much better shot on Fingers since it requires little bad sized jamming and has a face-climbing style crux. Inability to jam will create a terrible experience on lead on Coyne's for most "mortal" climbers who cannot lieback and place pro for 80-feet.
This argument aside, both are awesome climbs.
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estherator
May 25, 2005, 8:34 PM
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Alpine-If you go to Supercrack/Donnelly, you'll be able to find people to throw in with. If you camp at Bridger, you'll increase those odds. And lastly, if you are willing to lead Coyne, or any of the other tourist routes and put up a toprope for others, they will gladly share rack with you. No sweat-people are chill there. My advice to you, regarding building a Creek rack, if that is your aim, is to find out what sizes you favour and start buying pieces accordingly. (Assuming that you have a basic rack going on already)
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